Dave’s Comments (group member since May 24, 2014)

Dave’s comments from the Reading Proust's In Search of Lost Time in 2014 group.

Interesting to note that his talking and crying was no more effective on the behavior of the hawthorns than it was on the behavior of the women in his life (grandmother excepted).

Great quote Jonathan and very insightful. We now know that Proust was one of the pioneers in the field of talking to your plants to give them emotional support!

And the Male Brothel has a definite sense of a Pagan Festival. So Proust offers more for your entertainment Franc.

Now that I've sorted that out, when ask my opinion of Proust I can say "Ah yes, Proust, I find him to be so...so...Biblical!

Oops , I forgot, Francoise chasing the chicken at Combray qualifies as an animal sacrifice!

I agree Jonathan, Renato is up to the task as long as he is not too squeamish. Although Proust could liven things up a a bit with some pagan festivals and animal sacrifices. Now that I think about it, Marcel and Albertine's story does have a passing similarity with David and Bathsheeba.

I have a favorite quote, but reserve the right to change it ;) My favorite is Mme. Verdurin in TR "“Come in at five o’clock to talk about the war." For my favorite scene it is hard to top the hat attack.

This whole line of discussion since Jonathan was concerned with the quote above is the type I really enjoy, especially when we are all online at the same time.

Concerning the Bible, my study of it is what lead to my ability to comprehend The Sound and the Fury an Absolom, Absolom, which then motivated me to read Proust. I had read and listened to the Bible as an Audiobook which is where I got that idea. For two years I completely immersed myself in the Bible, buying courses from the Great Courses Company about Ancient History, Judaism, Christian Theology and every course offered on the Bible. I got heavily into reading textbooks and commentaries that focused on many of the new criticism fields that are being used now to analyze the Bible such as Literary Criticism, Rhetorical Criticism, and Reader Response Criticism. Eventually I was invited by the church to teach Sunday School and Adult Bible Study. For the most part those who attended my classes had "studied the Bible their whole lives". Yet they were continually amazed at how much meaning I could show them in even the shortest story. My focus was on the narrative parts of the Bible. Studying poetry, prophets, Wisdom Literature, and Letters requires different analytical skills which I became aware of but never got to practice.

Just to clarify, I believe in the Bible as a book of faith but not in the literal interpretation of it.

You are amazingly correct Dwayne, you have changed! You would definitely experience Swann's Way now Dwayne, BECAUSE you know the rest of the story. I heartily recommend that a couple of days after you finish you go back and read the first 40 pages (through the Madeline). If you don't have time for that, read the first 10 pages.

WOW Renato, in my scribbling and fumbling around I actually made contact with South America. Eureka! If you knew me in person you would know I don't take myself or anything too seriously. The writing exercise was "a modest proposal" just a point that, for me, expressing a personal opinion about a book in a discussion is more interesting than quoting the book.

Interesting that you mention the Bible. I live in the "Bible Belt" of the US. People drive around with bumper stickers on their trucks like "John 3:16". After a lifetime of ignoring organized religion I joined a large Protestant Church. Being bookish I decided I should read the Bible. I found it challenging but after two years had a pretty good handle on it. I also learned that folks quote the Bible with zeal but I never encountered anyone who could use the Bible text (without quoting it) to make a point about faith. So I left the church.

But I realize I'm not going to find anyone to talk about Proust where I live. So I'll make do with buying a pickup and putting a bumper sticker on the back that reads "TR p. 742"

Well I've read Dwayne that Proust "moved" Combray geographically East so it would be behind enemy lines and could geographically "fit" the storyline. He wrote the last half of TR early on and during WWI had to make adjustments to fit the war in. That seems to fit your idea.

I will be difficult here and say views about what? What the context is depends on the answer to first question. Any reader's interpretation depends on that reader's experience in reading the text.

I can find a quote to be funny, or interesting, or insightful of plot development. But I am skeptical that a sentence, even a Proustian sentence, can state Proust's opinion on art or literature. Jonathan's comments about the second quote he cited reflected a skepticism about the uniqueness of art in conveying knowledge. I agree with Jonathan - The sentence is beautifully written prose, but I'm pretty sure it would not stand up to a logical or philosophical examination.

So rather than answer the questions you posed, my inclination is to ask readers who had read the whole book to reread the library scene, then close their books and write a one page summary of the major points made in the reading. Everyone gets an A, as long they explained their thoughts without quoting the text.

This is where I get frustrated at having to post my comments. This subject (and a jillion others about Proust's book) are best discussed in all night bull sessions that resolve nothing but are a lot of fun. Like all our comments I condense mine so they often don't express my whole thought and possible reactions. Certainly Renato the book contains Proust's opinions on art and literature -and many other things. But at one and a half times the size of the Bible I've come to realize that Proust is one and a half times more likely to be quoted out of context than the Bible. Proust's opinions,I believe, are reflected in the totality of the text which each reader must read in-full and then reflect on and decide who Proust is to them and what his work has to say to them. This is the same as other artists/art and is my opinion of what the first quote Jonathan cited is getting at.

I'm unfamiliar with when Joyce's work was published but this portion of A la Recherché was probably written around 1909. According to Night at the Majestic Proust and Joyce were unfamiliar with each others work in 1922. The idea of thoughts being a cinematographic stream were obviously floating around for Proust to pick up on in his prose. He seems to have been very up on scientific and other modern ideas.

Jonathan wrote: "I disagree with Proust's wholesale rejection of realism however. There was so much that I disagreed with but the main thing that annoyed me was the fact that he's doing what other literary figures,..."

Again I would suggest this is not Proust's "wholesale rejection" but the thoughts of his character. To the degree that such thoughts and quotes have been taken up by disciples or self-styled Apostles they lend an air of misguided false authority and certainty that the reality of A la Recherche in my opinion does not support. Proust was a genius, he poured his genius into the creation of a monumental work of literature. He wrote in a style he invented and changed the course of modern literature. But as Alain de Botton so insightfully states at the end of his own book "in the end it is only a book.

Jonathan wrote: "Well, I finished this week's reading. Proust has glided from talking about involuntary memories to art and literature whilst he's waiting in the library.

I like this quote:Real life, life finally ..."

An interesting set of quotes and commentary Jonathan. I do like the first quote and you seem to as well.

Regarding the second quote I agree that there are other means that can fulfill that two specifications of knowledge that the only art can provide. Many might say this a good index of what Proust "is about". I held that view also but have changed my opinion. Now my opinion is "Poppycock!" This is the inspired musings of a fictional character." The most insightful of my outside readings have repeatedly reminded me not to assume the thoughts of the Narrator are the opinions of Proust. The quote is the logical progression of Marcel's observations throughout the book and since the ending was apparently written at the beginning these must have been written to lead to this conclusion.

I agree with Jonathan on B & T, it has a reputation as one of the great Philosophy books of the Twentieth Century but also one of the most impenetrable. I endorse Jonathan's suggestion to read a summary of B & T. An interesting biographic note, Heidegger fell out of academic grace for many years be because he joined the Nazi Party in the Thirties. As I remember he was not an enthusiastic Nazi but felt being a Party member was necessary to keep his job at a University. Anyway, he has been restored to philosophical rectitude.

That is a beautiful passage you quoted Jonathan. In some of my background reading I have seen Proust's ideas linked to Heidegger so your sense of philosophical connection may be well founded.

Marcelita, at some point I asked you about early criticism of Proust's work. I found the following interesting book, but will have to wait awhile to buy it. It contains 140 critical pieces on Proust's work up to 1931. Last work is Edmund Wilson's Axel's Castle

Marcel Proust (Critical Heritage)Sep 2, 2003 | Kindle eBook
by Leighton Hodson
Kindle Edition
from$19.78to rentKindle Edition
$38.39to buy
Auto-delivered wirelessly

Congratulations on completing your second read MMR! A rare accomplishment in the reading community. Hope you enjoy your follow-on reading.

Congratulations Renato and thank you for always being there for the rest of us as we have read. And congratulations on reading so many other masterpieces of World literature as you read Proust. Every time you posted a status update I was amazed.

Proust is unique for me in yet another way, I'm getting as excited about other readers finishing as I was about finishing myself.

Lol, well Marcelita, glad to oblige. But to be honest, there's a lot more than little ole me to make New York folks laugh, beginning with our embarrassing politicians. I voted for the other person, whomever it was.