Dave’s Comments (group member since May 24, 2014)

Dave’s comments from the Reading Proust's In Search of Lost Time in 2014 group.

Dwayne wrote: "Whoa ... we've made it halfway! I feel that I could never turn back now. What a delight. Except of course for the terrifying themes of complete isolation and constant disillusionment.

It also occu..."

Interesting points Dwayne. If you have time, I'd be interested in hearing a little more on how you see complete isolation and constant disillusionment reflected in the novel. Also be interested in a couple of examples of Oriane's lies. No need to find quotes, just something like "at such and such party she said this to that person. I'm almost two volumes ahead of the reading schedule so I sometimes need such memory joggers to remind me of the specifics of a comment.

I know as a Proust Reader I certainly feel complete isolation and constant disillusionment. If it wasn't for our brave little Goodreads Group spread across at least three continents, I'd have no one to talk to about ISOLT. Even when I mention that I'm reading Proust to my local book club they look at me with a mixture of horror and pity like I just said I was in the process of cutting off my arms with a butter knife. I read in a review of a Proust Bio that interest in Proust is experiencing a "dramatic revival." I'm suspicious of that. Interest in Proust the man or Proust's influence on other writers does not equate to folks actually reading ISOLT. I'l get off my soapbox now, My isolation and disillusionment are showing.

Concerning our earlier discussion of Charlus appearance. I am nearing the end of "The Captive" and have come across a couple of items of information that do not affect the plot (at least to the point where I am at) but indicate my visualization of him was significantly off.

1. Somewhere in S & G (I don't remember where) the Narrator observing Charlus walking states that he "waddled obesely) (Scott Montcrieff translation)

2. In "The Captive" Charlus and the Narrator are in conversation and Charlus, referring to his age states that he is "past Forty" and the Narrator says in an aside "in fact he was past Sixty."

I have to admit I find it hard to reason how to reconcile this with the age of an even older Guermantes generation in Mme Villparesis and perhaps others I can't recall.

Thank you Marcelita, you always have such interesting and useful information!

Marcelita wrote: "This section contains Proust's longest sentence.
Via Jim Everett's Proust Reader:
http://libraryschool.libguidescms.com...

(Decided to link from a good university (..."

Marcelita, you also mentioned (in an earlier response to Sunny I believe) that the section also contains the saddest sentence. Would you elaborate please?

Renato, just came upon a scene where Charlus is described as "that stout gentleman with his grey hair, his black moustaches, his lips reddened with a salve..." So the pictures above may be too slim. He is often descibed as having "half-closed eyes". He is also mistaken for "an Israelite".

On figuing age Renato, I make do with trying to keep track of generations. Mme. Villparesis is an aunt of the Duchess, an older woman but not frail (60's), Saint Loup is the Duchesses' nephew (early 20's), that puts the Duc and Duchess in mid-40s to early 50's. Charlus is the Duc's younger brother (mid-40's). Sometimes there is reference to historical events that help establish age of characters.

Renato wrote: "Charlus is a very interesting character, I agree. I can't wait to see what he'll do next, specially after all the craziness that happened in that visit!

I found these on Google:

Renato, I never thought of him as short and fat. Those pictures seem more or less what I picture in my mind. The voices that the reader gives to each character in the Audio Book shape my visualization. The reader does an excellent job on Charlus (actually all the voices are good).

Jonathan, I liked your comparison to Dickens in characterization. I'm a big fan of Dickens.



For some reas..."

I read somewhere that Charlus was "one of the strongest characters". I was not sure what to make of that at first. But I don't think it is giving too much away to say that where I am in the reading now, when he arrives on the scene I say to myself "Oh good, here's Charlus, things will get interesting now."

Renato wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "And add it to the group's bookshelf as well when it's on GR."

Done and done!

Here it is: The Color-Keys to "A la recherche du temps perdu"."

I seem to have missed something. I followed the link and found the book on Amazon but other than title and ISBN there was nothing about it or any reviews. Two used copies are available, starting at $143. Thats's too rich for my Proust budget.

That sounds good, I'll have to check that out. Thanks

Jonathan wrote: "Dave wrote: "I see this as the narrator trying to influence reader's opinions by projecting his own perverse childhood fantasies or behavior onto women in the story.

Well, at least this clears up ..."

Thanks for book recommendation Jonathan, I put the book on my wish list along with the Age of Absurdity.

This line of discussion is leading me to have a lot of bizarre Proustian memory connections. Reading of tortured rats and missing portraits leads me to think of the movie "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?" which I have revised in my brain to "Whatever Happened to the Duchesses' Portrait?"Spoiler alert - it is locked in the Guermantes' attic with Elistir who is being fed rats.

I just never realized that the correct genre for ISOLT was psychological thriller. I'm surprised that publishers haven't thought of boosting sales with well placed spin control. "A Dynamo of Horror and and Suspense..." "A gruesome and sordid tale of lost innocence among a pastel landscape littered with the corpses of mutilated little animals"

Well, In for a penny, in for a pound. I'm hooked now so I will soldier on, whistling in the dark through the scary parts.

Jonathan wrote: "One of my favourite quotes in this section was this one where the narrator reveals exactly what it is about Mme Guermantes that appeals to him:Her mind, shaped so long before my own, was for me the..."

Good grief! I missed this quote! Ugh, creepy, catty, misogynistic? Based on my experience with people and my amateur psychology, this says nothing of the Duchess or the "little band" but says volumes about the narrator. I see this as the narrator trying to influence reader's opinions by projecting his own perverse childhood fantasies or behavior onto women in the story.

Well, at least this clears up one thing, our narrator is Norman Bates. lol

Jonathan wrote: "Dave wrote: "Yes, there is a lot to observe in these big social scenes. This dinner doesn't end until next week's reading where I made some brief remarks about it. I don't think I am giving anythin..."

Jonathan, Good summary of differences between Courvoisiers and Guermantes. My thoughts on the dinner were close to yours.

Al good points. Again, stay tuned to the next Volume.

Yes, and I'm already suffering reader's remorse. I have a sinking feeling in my stomach that after this Volume, I've only got three more Volumes! It's beginning to look like I may read all Seven Volumes! Arrrrgggghhhh! Then it will be over!!!! I'm trying to steady my nerves with the thought that I can just continually re-read Proust all my life. But the first time is always special.

I'm three quarters finished with Sodom and Gommorah and it is my favorite volume so far. Every scene, large or small really captures my interest.

You won't be dissappointed.

Renato wrote: "Sunny in Wonderland wrote: "But, I swear I must be missing something. The narrator said he saw something while he was waiting on the stairs for the Guermantes to return home, but that he'd relate t..."

Where was it mentioned that Morel would visit the narrator Renato? I missed that. In an age of ebooks,I've thought more than once that when the narrator mentions he will get back to something (or refers to something previous) it would be nice to have embedded links in the text to take you to the referenced text. Perhaps there. are charts in various books on Proust that do this. On the other hand I would be too tempted to cheat and peek. Having seen the mess that are the manuscript pages, I'm dumbfounded that Proust could keep track of all these cross references.

I did catch the irony of the Duc's defense of his brother's manliness. I said to myself "me thinks the lady doth protest too much."

Yes, there is a lot to observe in these big social scenes. This dinner doesn't end until next week's reading where I made some brief remarks about it. I don't think I am giving anything away to say that in Sodom and Gommorah there are two big social scenes. It was not until I got to the first of those that I felt I was beginning to appreciate "Proust parties." At this dinner I was struggling to get through and mainly got that it developed the characters of the Duc and Duchess and explained their marriage. Now I am nearing the end of the second event in Sodom and Gomorrah and I am fascinated. Since the first family dinner in Combray, the events have grown more and more complex. The social events seem like music compositions beginning with piano scales and now they have become synphonies. Proust seems to use different techniques in each one to devop suspense, carry on multiple conversations etc.
I'm not much into reading biographys and summaries and such, but if Marcelita drops by I want to ask her if she knows of books or articles on how Proust devlops these "gatherings" over the course of the novel.