Dave’s Comments (group member since May 24, 2014)

Dave’s comments from the Reading Proust's In Search of Lost Time in 2014 group.

My children may have that illusion but I'm spending my "fortune" as fast as I can. But I do want to leave my children something - my maxed out credit card bills!

Andree, I agree that to focus chronology is not all that useful, but there is some use. Proust was born July 10, 1871. I believe the "hero" of the book is perhaps 10 years younger than that based on events in Swann Way. I've seen several "chronologies" of the novel that I don't agree with that place events too early based on historical events and people that Proust includes in the book (such as seeing airplanes before their first flight). There is a very specific political event and person mentioned in The Captive that dates that volume in the Winter/Spring 1909 and the long day in that Volume most likely in February 1909.

However, whatever the general dating in the book, I still maintain a full discussion of how old the narrator is is a major spoiler.

I think thats right where Proust wants readers o be at this point.

Yes. What I got out of it was, although what exactly went on, it was at least inappropriate if not criminal (police involvement indicated some sort of standards). But he didn't seem to see what the big deal was. I came away from that thinking the whole thing was another notch in his creepiness. He is an anti-hero for me.

What about the police?

Did you ever get closure on the sleazy episode of the Dairymaid Sunny?

Have a safe trip Renato.

Thanks for the correction Marcelita!

There is further development of this incident in coming pages. I know it is sometimes hard for me, but we need to resist the temptation to overlay our modern cultural values on a story set a century ago in another country. Hope you will follow up on this as you read more.

On the Narrator' age at Balbec the first time, my guess is 15 or 16. The Captive nominally happens in the Winter of 1908-1909. The first part of The Fugitive in the Summer of 1909 so the Narrator is around 30 is my best guess.

Why doesn't it fit the story Sunny? I thought what you thought. What follows from that incident in the book?

Yes, that was a telling scene.

Ultimately I believe this whole question is written the way it is to make one of the "higher level"points in the book. Marcel was filthy rich and could have easily had Albertine and everyone else followed by professional detectives 24/7. As it is, he wallows in self misery and paranoia depending on acknowledged unreliable characters to bring him info. He doesn't really want to know. Either answer will make him just as miserable as we've seen again and again. I don't see how this part could be accurately made into a movie. Audiences today want answers and closure that it does not suit Proust't purpose to provide here.

I agree, Morel is slimy and Andree is an unknown quantity.

I doubted Aime because it was disclosed (I think in Volume IV) that he stayed all night with male and female customers at the Grand Hotel to supplement his income for his family. Without judging his behavior, that showed me that he "knew how to please the customer and would morally do what it takes to do so. Marcel pays him for his investigative trips to Balbec and to Albertine's Aunt. He brings back stories that the bathouse attendant tells him. but immediately after that damning testimony, Marcel remembers that (either Aunt Leonie or Grandmother) had said what a scheming liar the bathhouse attendant was. On the other trip Aime gets info from a laundress he sleeps with. So based on this I totally discount any info Aime provides. I see this whole question as a trial. Albertine stands accused. I don't know that she is "innocent," but I find no hard evidence to convict her. I acquit her of all charges.

I was asked over on the Yahoo Proust Page if I thought Albertine was a man or a woman. My answer was "I don't know." Here is part of my explaination:

"Biologically was Albertine a man or woman? My opinion is that the jury will forever be out. What was Albertine's sexuality? Again, I admit, I don't know and don't expect to know...

My measure of evidence for such text-based questions is that it must be text-based. With that said, I remember nothing from the text that decisively answers any of the questions posed above. Gossip, hear-say, guilt-by-association; answers provided by paid-informants whose reliability, motivation and/or coloration in answering readers are given reason to doubt; answers provided by person(s) that readers have reason to at least consider may be agents of Albertine; answers given by Albertine under duress that readers might reasonably consider might be motivated by a desire to "just get him to shut up;" answers that, on reflection by the Narrator, are contradicted by memories of information provided by family members; answers based on apparent misinterpretation by the Narrator of words and deeds of Albertine and others; unexplained astonishment by Saint-Loup on being shown Albertine's picture which the Narrator misunderstands; and finally, the series of letters received from Albertine (and her aunt) to which the Narrator responds consistent with his previous words and deeds but which, from a reader's perspective may, have been written to torment or escape the Narrator; in sum, an avalanche of "evidence" that I find inconclusive.

Against all the above there is one possible bit of information provided by Albertine herself. Her recalling to the Narrator the trip she took with the chauffeur when he had to take the car on personal business to Balbec leaving her to spend time at a town along the way and, due to a luggage mix up, giving her no choice but to dress like a man while there. The Narrator apparently misses this point entirely. Interesting and suspect, but still leaving room for reasonable doubt in my opinion...

Renato wrote: "Dave wrote: "When he meets Andre in the next volume she admits this in one meeting (or at least admits his suspicions are true) and then denies them in another meeting. This makes anything she says..."

Andre meets him three times after Albertine's death. First time she flatly denies his accusations, second time she goes off on some tangent and doesn't answer the accusation (I believe, I have not found that page), this third time (here) she admits it graphicly. But in this chapter she is sleeping with him., so that may color what she tells him now. There is never any third person omnicent narration to explain convincingly why she says what she says. The same for Albertine and anything anyone tells the Narrator about Albertine. All we have are his suspicions. The Narrator himself shows that her truethfulness is questionable when he thinks: "I pursued these reflexions basing myself on the assumption that Andrée was truthful— which was possible— and had been prompted to sincerity with me precisely because she had now had relations with me, from that Saint- André- des- Champs side of her nature which Albertine too had shown me at the start."

Jonathan wrote: "Why do the Guermantes stop the narrator commenting on Swann when he looks at Elstir's paintings? I'm not really sure about this. Is it just that any talk of Swann may lead to Gilberte's mother?"

They stop him because Gilberte is deliberately trying to cover/ignore the fact that she is Swann's daughter because she believes now that her stepfather adopted her and she has his name it will be easier move up in society. This is her own idea/plan. The Guermantes are aware of this sensitivity and tacitly complicit for their own reasons (nobody wants to remember Swann). Odette is an aristocrat and society Grand Dame now, everybody loves her.

I've reread Chapters Two and Four of "The Fugitive." Again, I am amazed at what I "see" the second time around. I agree with you Jonathan, there is a lot more to Chapter Two than I remember.

Jonathan wrote: "A bit of additional info I liked finding out was that the name Swann was supposed to have English roots.

I'm intrigued to know who Sanilon is - he wrote a letter to the narrator congratulating hi..."

Who Sanilon is is explained in a footnote to the book "Proust in Love" by William Carter. The link below takes you to the page. He is also mentioned in "Time Regained". No spoiler, this is very obscure.

http://books.google.com/books?id=UnG0...

Thanks Jonathan, My MKE ebook has those titles but no TOC to link to them. I paged back through from the end to the beginning of Chapter Two. I had merged some of Chapter Two with Chapter One in my memory. Now I'm oriented to where you are at now. Hopefully I can keep it sorted out in my mind.