Saya’s review of Twilight (Twilight, #1) > Likes and Comments

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message 1: by Ellie (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:53PM) (new)

Ellie DISAGREE


message 2: by Saya (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:54PM) (new)

Saya Okay, but why do you disagree?


message 3: by Ellie (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:54PM) (new)

Ellie There relationship was not forced! Bella could have chosen to go away if she wanted to. Edward could have gone away, it shows in the second book. Bella is a strong heroin. She is brave, kind, selfless, and honest. It was kinda the point of the story for her to be clumsy to show that it's not only the cheerleaders that get to be the stars in life.

Oh, and there romance does grow. Rembember in the meadow? And obviously you haven't been in love because you can't explain why it happens it just does.

There characters do grow in New Moon. Edwdard learned that Bella loved him more than he believed any human could love. And also, Bella realized that Edward could never leave her again. In New Moon there was also the introduction of Jacob (Ew).

In Eclipse, Bella and Edward's love grows even stronger and we learn even more abouot the characters. Bella became extremely brave and Edward became very tolerant.


message 4: by Saya (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:54PM) (new)

Saya When I say forced, I mean that the strange (and unexplained) glitches in Bella were used as ways to make Bella more intriguing and draw Ed in; their love didn't begin because Ed was attracted to Bella for herself, it was because of these weird and unexplained traits. It is not explained why Bella is immune to vampire's mental gifts nor is it explained why Bella smells so good to not only Edward but to every single vampire- I would think someone in peak physical condition would smell tasty or there would be some sort of biological reason as to why certain humans smell so irresistible to certain vampires- but a reason is never given.

Bella isn't brave, she thoughtlessly throws herself into harms way like when she wandered around Port Angeles alone at night. She lived in Phoenix all her life and is supposed to be smart yet any city girl would know not to wander around a new area alone at night. Selfless: remember Eclipse, she wasn't selfless, she refused to let go of Jake, even at the very end she still wanted to see him. Bella was right that she was selfish. I fail to see how Bella is honest, she would lie a lot if she had any skill at lying; she isn't a liar nor a truth teller, she answered Ed's questions because he asked, that's all.

Bella didn't become brave at all. At what point did she overcome her fears and do something helpful; no, preparing to stab herself to protect others doesn't count nor does cliff diving for the sake of hearing Ed's voice count. Every time she is told to sit tight while the vampires try to protect her she insists on meddling: her mother in Phoenix- Bella falls for James' lie and hands herself over which seemed incredibly stupid and she tried to stab herself to distract the vampires at the end of Eclipse. Despite the infinite number of times vampires/werewolves have explained their power and how they would be fine, Bella still sees fit to sacrifice herself.

All Bella does is think about Edward and how hot his body is, occasionally she comments on how she doesn't deserve him because he is so selfless but that is very occasionally. We are always told about Ed physically and occasionally told about how selfless he is, how is that love? You're right, I've never been in love, but this is certainly not how true love is, true love is healthy, the lovers can exist without each other but choose to be together because they love each other. I do sense that feeling in Twilight, not so much in New Moon since Bella goes nutters, and I felt sick in Eclipse. Despite Bella knowing Ed loves her and won't leave her she is still incredibly clingy and even threatens to go crazy if Ed fights.

Their love was interesting at first but became as bad as a cheesy soap opera later on.


message 5: by Amber (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:55PM) (new)

Amber It's Edward, not Ed.


message 6: by Ellie (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:55PM) (new)

Ellie agreed.


message 7: by Saya (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:56PM) (new)

Saya I just don't feel like writing Edward every time I need to refer to him, how am I being disrespectful by shortening his name? I don't need to write Edward every time I need to refer to him; the only reason you people are picking at that detail is because you have nothing better to say and are being picky. Thanks for picking out that minuscule detail to comment on rather than contributing to the conversation. Prove me wrong and actually talk about the topic rather than being nit picky and rude.


message 8: by Amber (last edited Aug 25, 2016 01:56PM) (new)

Amber Let me begin by saying that I simply did not have the time or the desire earlier to write an entire response to your review. The naming of characters is something very intense and crucial for an author. For those of us who love Edward, Stephenie Meyer included, it feels almost sacrilegious to shorten it to Ed. I fail to see how the difference in typing four more letters each time you mention Edward is that big of a deal.

As for their love being forced, I think you're equating what originally attracted them to each other with what makes them love each other. You never hear someone say that someone's personality or character drew them in from across the room. Those are things that you find out about someone, not something you can tell about someone when you pass them on the street or see them across a dance floor.

Bella's "glitches" are what makes her Bella. I believe that they may have attracted Edward to her because her clumsiness and her lack of self-confidence were so opposite from his seeming perfection. These things make her more human, both to Edward and to the readers. They also make her feel as though she does not fit in, which would make Edward see her as as kindred of sorts. Why Edward cannot read her mind is not explained, because they don't understand it. There isn't always an easy answer or explanation. Because this story is told from Bella's point of view, we only know what she knows.

Before I go any further, I want to make sure I say that this entire thread contains spoilers for the rest of the books and because I'm sure I'll reference them, if you haven't read all the books and don't want to know what happens, stop reading now. I know you've already seen a lot, but I don't want to ruin the expeience for you even more.

Bella does not smell so irresistable to every vampire. Edward tells her that if she smelled as irresistable to other vampires as she does to him, there would have been a fight right in the clearing. Him finding her smell so appealing is like some people loving a perfume and other people hating the smell, all be it greatly intensified in this case. The way she smells to him may be likened to the wolves imprinting. It's just something that happens without a clear explanation, they just are. Which brings me back to her explaining why she loves him.

I do not believe that I could put into words exactly why I love my husband. Yes, he is wonderful and has incredibly endearing qualities, but so do many other men. Not any that I dated before him, but that's beside the point. The point is what makes him special to me above all others is not something that I can explain. If you break someone down into characteristics and qualities, you can find another dozen just like them. But people don't work that way. There is something completely beyond human explanation or understanding that happens when two people fall in love with each other. It's an absolute miracle if you really think about it, and miracles generally defy explanation.

As for Bella contemplating stabbing herself in Eclipse, that was a totally selfless move. Also when she is tricked by James, she is willing to give up her own life to save her mother. These are not cowardly actions. Yes, she may throw herself in harms way when others try to convince her that they have it covered, but she also knows that they sometimes filter the truth in an effort to ease her mind.

She is selfish by wanting both Jacob and Edward, that's true. As much as people say that true love is selfless, that only applies to a certain point. She loves them both, but she recognizes that is is selfish and unfair. That doesn't mean that she can change how her heart feels simply because she knows something in her head.

I don't think that all Bella ever thinks about is how "hot" Edward's body is. She is simply overtaken by his beauty consistantly. It's part of being in love. Even as long as I've been with my husband I sometimes see a picture of him and think "Wow", and yes, like Bella, I think that I definitely don't deserve him. And as for true, healthy love being two people who could survive without each other but choose to be together...I don't know. If my husband were to leave, yes, I know that in reality my heart would continue to beat and I would continue to breath. But, were it not for my children, I would also, as you said, "go nutters" just as Bella did. I would cease to function as myself. The truest of love to me is when two people cease to be just that, two people. They become a couple, "and the twain shall be one", they rely upon each other, they "need" each other. In this age of women's lib, I'm sure that is an unpopular point of view, but it is mine.

She clings to him because she loves him. Even though he has said he will never leave her again, Bella is old enough to know that promises are sometimes broken. She is afraid of losing him. It truly seems to me that your biggest issues with the book are the things that make Bella truly human. She is also seventeen and you have to remember that when you consider her thoughts and actions. This is not a series of books for those who want to escape reality by reading about perfect people. These characters are real, imperfect, and "human", even the vampires. That is one of the reasons that I love these books.


message 9: by Sra (new)

Sra Saya,

Just want to say that I understand and agree with some of your complaints. I, too, think the depth of the love between Edward and Bella is too shallow, at least in Twilight, which is the only book of the series I've read so far. But as you alluded, I think this has a lot to do with their relationship being their first, and we all know how shallow and idealized and inexplicable our first loves are. That love is better called infatuation. To me, "being in love" means being infatuated, and "having love for" means actually loving someone based on having gotten to know them, and there definitely is a difference.

It is human nature to be drawn to someone at first mainly for physical reasons. Infatuation grows from this physical appeal and is fueled by one's fantasies of the idealized relationship. Real love follows that. Or sometimes it doesn't, and that's when people move on. After just a few months in the first book, Edward and Isabella's love qualifies only for the infatuation period. That doesn't necessarily cheapen it, because that is a valuable period of love (you have to start somewhere). But it does mean that you have to take all those flowery declarations of love-ever-after with a serious chunk of salt. Bella certainly shouldn't make her mind up that she wants to become a vampire and spend eternity with Edward just because of this infatuation. Just as it would be unwise to commit to marriage during such a period. Of course, some people who do commit so early get lucky, but they likely would have gotten just as lucky if they had waited on the decision.

Overall I get your point, though I think I liked the book better than you. Maybe because I took the book for what it is: a romance novel. And romance novels are hardly realistic, but that's what makes them valuable. This type of fantasy is important to women, because life isn't like this. Just like how in a man's world, women aren't like porn stars, but that won't stop men from looking!

Good review.

P.S. Don't mind those nitpickers on "Ed". Crazy fanatics!

Bunsnip.com


message 10: by Lauren (new)

Lauren The thing with book like this is that they are fairy tales. I have this discussion with people all the time. Yes, there are quite a few "coincidences" and what not but thats the point. its about the mysterious beyond, and the wonder of first love and soulmates. I don't think it's a fan girl vs. inner author thing, though perhaps it's because i hate the term fangirl. i find it terribly degrading. very few people could honesty say that buffy for example was a bad show. it was one of the first "teen" shows basically inventing a genre. yet it too holds the same sort of mystical ethereal love. its not about realism, realism misses the point. the points you make are true but not relevant because of genre. anyway this was basically a very long winded way of saying that while there are gaps in logic and sense its unimportant because at heart this is a fairy story.


message 11: by Saya (new)

Saya Sorry if I offended you with fangirls- I understand why- but that's just how I view Twilight. While the part of me that likes an interesting romance with a character whose shoes and I can truly fill the other part points out the flaws in the story, the underdeveloped mythology and characters, and the jack-in-the-box villains, surprise- or not- vampire villains appear to add an action filled ending.


message 12: by Saya (new)

Saya Amber, I would like to thank you for actually putting in so much effort into this argument, at first I was ticked at your response, but I am glad to know that a Twilight fan put so much effort into defending Bella and Edward.
Okay.
So what, I shortened a guy's name, the fact that so many people flew off the handle at that shows how- rabid these fans are. If nothing else, I shortened Edward's name to save characters.
Even though Bella doesn't smell as good to every vampire as she does to Edward, Alice, James, and I think even Laurent all admitted Bella smelled good- even the newborn vampires of Eclipse were driven to a feeding frenzy at the scent of her body, let alone her own blood.

Bella's attempt to stab herself was stupid, not selfless. Edward was fine- okay Seth appeared to be in danger but to actually stab herself! She constantly considers sacrificing herself to the newborns, she was planning to sneak away/bide her time so her bad luck would get her (sounds like she wanted to go find the newborns). Despite how many times people have told her they would fight anyway. It's as if Bella is either too scared to ever think rationally or doesn't trust Edward, the Cullens, and/or werewolfs enough that they can fight Victoria and the newborns. She never considers that he will be fine- she's too scared to think of anything else beside killing herself/spilling her blood.
Even though Bella is 17-18 she is constantly portrayed as mature: She reads Austen and other classics for fun, listens to Debussy, and can handle financial and legal information! I'd expect that at some point Bella would start to grow as a character and long for humanity without her only real ties being Jacob that ever insight regret in her. But she doesn't- she grows more clingy and dependent.
As for the love argument... well I've never been in love which makes arguing this difficult. But when I look at my parents, happily married, I can see that though they don't kiss and hug everyday, they argue over misunderstandings, and they both have individual problems, they love each other. I know that if I fall in love I don't want the rest of my life to revolve around the person- unable to breathe properly without them by my side. Perhaps it's only because of Bella's biased POV that understanding Edward is so difficult for me. But she just goes on and on about him and I just wish we saw Edward's gushy side more often because then I could see how he sees Bella.
Of course, my complaints come from the sequels and hardly from Twilight itself- hehehe- so I really shouldn't have mentioned the issues the characters have in the sequels here.
Thanks again for writing so much.


message 13: by Saya (new)

Saya Why does everyone assume that because I don't praise Edward like a god that I haven't read the sequels? I have, Edward just gets worse later on.
I can easily speak down about Edward because I have NO IDEA what he's like from his own POV- yes, I have read the first chapter of Midnight Sun.



message 14: by Saya (last edited Feb 25, 2009 02:34AM) (new)

Saya Well, the thing is, is that I have always preferred mortality to immortality, so that makes me prefer Jake to Edward. I want to age, maybe have kids, have a career, see my friends and family, and certainly not leave all that for the sake of a guy who is so perfect it gets annoying. I like my guys with rough edges- not like a bad boy.

No, I wouldn't prefer it had Bella chosen Jake because he was a real *** in Eclipse.

Edward is too controlling, he doesn't trust Bella enough to consider she might really love him- a fair argument given how obssessed she is with his looks. But even after New Moon where he pledged his love, he still denies Bella what she wants most, refusing to turn her unless she marries him first, always trying to prolong her decision, and then controlling her decisions such as instigating an argument between Charlie and Bella just so Bella would want to go to Florida. Edward didn't seem to love her at all, but treated her like a possession, just like Jacob. At least Edward promised to let Bella have her way since he was tired of hurting her with his controlling behavior.


message 15: by Saya (new)

Saya But Bella didn't want to go, she didn't think going to Florida so soon after her punishment was over was a good idea but Edward manipulated her into arguing to go with Charlie despite the 12 werewolves and seven vampires protecting her from only one vampire. It just seems too controlling, especially when considering that Edward and Jake merely hid Bella in the mountain range rather than fly out of the state or even to another country when 20 newborn vampires and two adult vampires were in the vicinity.


message 16: by Saya (new)

Saya I'm just saying he should at least tell Bella what's going on, if he doesn't and he tries to make her do something she doesn't want to do, even if it is for the best, is is controlling her.


message 17: by Saya (new)

Saya It's still unfair, she was very upset with him for sneaking behind her back.


message 18: by Cye (new)

Cye i think i agree. this book was very, very half-decent. readable, but sometimes annoyingly easy. sometimes overly expository and tangential. also, (spoiler) the method by which edward saves our heroine, breaks the author's own rules about her own sci-fi, and i don't like that.
still, it was fun.


message 19: by Cye (new)

Cye well, she explained how the whole thing worked, and another bite shouldn't have cured her according to the explanation. that is, of course, unless i'm confused, but i thought it was pretty clear.


message 20: by Saya (new)

Saya I think cyre means that when Edward bit Bella's hand to suck Jame's venom out, he should have released his own venom into her system.

Eliza, whose to say that Jake never tried to protect Bella? Albeit, he was very selfish in his constant advances and rude behavior, no doubt about that, but he just feels that Bella should have a right to know about her own life.


message 21: by Lindsey (new)

Lindsey Thank you, Saya!

I agree with you completely about this book. I am an aspiring writer, yet still a female, so I was greatly conflicted about this book.

It has no literary merit whatsoever, yet I couldn't stop reading it because I fell in love with Edward immediately!

I was frustrated the whole time by everything you mentioned - flat characters, weak plot driven by even weaker plot points.

She made Edward so perfect, and Bella so boring, that I really couldn't figure out what he saw in her. I know, I know, all the fangirls are going to reply back to me that Bella is strong, and it's true love you can't explain, yadda yadda.

Another thing that really bugged me was how dumb everyone in these damn books are. The plot is very , very predictable, but no one seems to have a damn clue about what is going on. The worst was in Eclipse. As soon as all the murders in Seattle were brought into the plot I thought, "Oh, Victoria is creating a Vampire army to destroy Bella" and I figured this would be revealed pretty soon after, and we'd move on with the plot. NO! The characters couldn't figure anything out. 100 pages later, "oh, wow, someone's creating a vampire army!" 200 pages later, "hmmm maybe Victoria is behind this? but hey, whatever, let's have some more romance scenes." And finally, another 100 pages later, "HOLY SHIT, VICTORIA CREATED A VAMPIRE ARMY TO DESTROY BELLA!!!"


Also, I hate Jacob Black. Not necessarily as a character (though he's not spectacular by any means anyway) but as a plot devise. Bella's "love" for Jacob isn't set up or explained at all...she just loves him all of a sudden, and it's obvious it's just as a plot devise to create some conflict.

Anyways, thanks for affirming all my views on this book.



message 22: by Robert (new)

Robert People are compelled when writers have a passion for their subject. Often, even the best writing will fall flat if it lacks heart. Twilight is a story full of heart and that, in my opinion, it its appeal.




message 23: by Yasmin (new)

Yasmin I completely disagree with you, the characters are described perfectly, and as an author my self, you have to look through the words of the book to understant the characters completely. For example, If you look at Edward, you can see that he is the typical teenage boy, even in the way, that he liked Bella from the moment he saw her but yet ignored her, isn't that typical teenage behavior?
This is definately one of the best book series ever written, it is even so good that it is production at the moment and the film will be out within the next year or two.


message 24: by Yasmin (new)

Yasmin Twilight WAS awkward in some places but that just hepled add to teh atmosphere, it's a writing convention to use the awkward to keep you reading. I love Twilight but have still yet to read the others, because my friends finally got me to read it, but i can't believe it took me so ling to find these books, because they are so amazing.


message 25: by Hannah (new)

Hannah Saya,
I relly enjoyed reading your review of Twilight. I don't agree with alot of what you said (mainly becuase I am a hopeless fangirl), but it was refreshing to see such a thoughtout review.
The only real complaint I have is that you compaired Bella to an anime cheractor. I am a huge anime fan, but I thought that brought down the quality of your almost excellent review.
But really thanks for not bashing (not that that's really what you were doing),but giving validated reasons for what you saw as flaws.



message 26: by [deleted user] (new)

i see lots of things wrong in the book and i really love it. there are things wrong in every book. bella is not really outgoing in the first book but she grows so much in the next books that she becomes one of the heros of the book.


message 27: by [deleted user] (new)

she does seem to hate every character in the book




message 28: by [deleted user] (new)

it is so sad


message 29: by [deleted user] (new)

i hope that in the 4th book she shows some girl power but she does save Edward in a way but lets see if she gets some guts in the next book
but she has guts to date a guy who could crush her all to easy


message 30: by [deleted user] (new)

she is a real wimp and i hope she can prove herself. i hope that she does something really heroic in the next book. something really brave


message 31: by Ilene (new)

Ilene GOSH u peoplez write so much!

i understand how u peoples feel but go outside and play instead of wasting ur time writing this stuff!

but, i LOVE these books!

o and i heard that stephanie myers is writing another book in ed's point of view.

and a movie is being made. the guy who played cedric diggory in harry potter is playing ed and bella is a red head! BELLA IS NOT A RED HEAD!!!


toodles


message 32: by [deleted user] (new)

it's raining outside girl
i get on the computer once a day gosh
it is Edward no ed
and you are right she is not a red head


message 33: by [deleted user] (new)

i think that the edward in the movie will be so ugly compared to the one from the book


message 34: by Yasmin (new)

Yasmin Omg have any of you actually looked at him, the Edward in the film will be just as hot as the one from the book!!! I'm shocked people :)


message 35: by [deleted user] (new)

excuse me but unless they found a totally hot vampire to play edward in the movie they are so not looking the part
compared to the book the movie is so not the drama



message 36: by Sarah (new)

Sarah if they don't get edward perfect wait correction if they don't get the edward from the book it won't be that good


message 37: by Sarah (new)

Sarah um devin thats really me I just didn't know I was on my moms account


message 38: by [deleted user] (new)

oh good i was wondering who sarah was



message 39: by [deleted user] (new)

so i have just pre ordered number 4


message 40: by [deleted user] (last edited Feb 25, 2009 02:34AM) (new)

oh
i was just rereading new moon and if i had to choose a favorite character in the book i would choose.................
Alice


message 41: by Sarah (last edited Feb 25, 2009 02:34AM) (new)

Sarah I'd probably chose Alice... Never Jacob. Maybe Edward when he comes back but Alice is the best in new moon


message 42: by Sarah (new)

Sarah its me again i keep forgetting i'm on my moms account


message 43: by Ilene (new)

Ilene ok im writing what bella REALLY looks like, according 2 Steph Mey:

dark brown hair and eyes, heart shaped face, high cheekbones, and very pretty


message 44: by [deleted user] (new)

that is right you my child have been paying much attention
hats of to ya


message 45: by [deleted user] (new)

no she is really prity for a human



message 46: by Ilene (new)

Ilene she is supposed to look average looking but why do so many guys like her?


message 47: by [deleted user] (new)

exactly they all think that they are in love withher because she is new
that is why only mike has a crush on her after a bit


message 48: by [deleted user] (new)

minty????????????????


message 49: by [deleted user] (new)

well back to the book


message 50: by [deleted user] (new)

she is but she got a bit a guts to hang out with people who could kill her way easy


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