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Saturn: A New Look at an Old Devil
With this book, Liz Greene has taken a major step in the unveiling of the light of reason, so long obscured by those who have interpreted Saturn as a 'malefic' planet and, in doing so, presents a remarkably rich study of the unconscious mind, shedding light on that mysterious, elusive entity that psychology calls the self.
Saturn's darker persona is recognized universally in myth and fairytale. Here, Dr. Greene traces his character through sign, house, aspect, and synastry in a brilliant analysis which reveals his other face: that of the Initiator who, for the price of our honesty, offers us greater consciousness, self-understanding and, eventually, freedom.
Saturn's darker persona is recognized universally in myth and fairytale. Here, Dr. Greene traces his character through sign, house, aspect, and synastry in a brilliant analysis which reveals his other face: that of the Initiator who, for the price of our honesty, offers us greater consciousness, self-understanding and, eventually, freedom.
200 pages, Paperback
First published January 1, 1976
311 people are currently reading
3371 people want to read
About the author
Liz Greene
77 books460 followersLiz Greene is held in high esteem by astrologers all over the world, professional and non-professional alike. She is a prolific author of books and various publications and has been instrumental in shaping modern psychological astrology.
She holds doctorate degrees in psychology and (as of 2010) in history and is a qualified Jungian analyst. She also holds a diploma in counselling from the Centre for Transpersonal Psychology in London, and a diploma from the Faculty of Astrological Studies, of which she is a lifetime Patron.
She holds doctorate degrees in psychology and (as of 2010) in history and is a qualified Jungian analyst. She also holds a diploma in counselling from the Centre for Transpersonal Psychology in London, and a diploma from the Faculty of Astrological Studies, of which she is a lifetime Patron.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 103 reviews
May 29, 2009
This book is literally my bible. I read it for the first time when I was in my 20s, and have been re-reading it ever since. I would have given it more starts if I could.
I wish everyone would read it. It is primarily an astrological book, explaining the planet Saturn and it's different positions in signs and houses, but it is easy to read and requires no astro knowledge, except where your Saturn is.
It is amazingly accurate, and especially so in synastry (relationship horoscope).If you have troubles in relationships this book will bring not a light into it, but a torch:)
I wish everyone would read it. It is primarily an astrological book, explaining the planet Saturn and it's different positions in signs and houses, but it is easy to read and requires no astro knowledge, except where your Saturn is.
It is amazingly accurate, and especially so in synastry (relationship horoscope).If you have troubles in relationships this book will bring not a light into it, but a torch:)
June 22, 2017
Anyone with some basic knowledge of Astrology knows that all the planets have a way of effecting us. Amongst all the planets of our solar system, one of the most notorious for his influence is Saturn, the father of Capricorn (the Goat). For centuries Astrologers agreed upon the idea of Saturn being a planet which heralds only negative influence upon people (fear, restrictions, overbearing caution...).
In this insightful little book, Liz Greene defies this old tradition and digs deep into the hidden world of Saturn, the ruler of time. In a stunning way, Greene shows her readers how Saturn's supposedly negative influence actually leads to fortification of an individual's strength, his determination and much more. At the same time, the author shows common patterns in personalities etc. when Saturn is at specific angles on the Birth Chart.
Since I'm lucky enough to know my exact time of birth, I was able to verify the things written down in this book not only to be true, but also stunningly precise! Ranging from the troubled conditions of my birth to the relationship I have with my parents... Everything I wanted to learn about Saturn, I discovered by reading this intriguing book. 5 stars!
In this insightful little book, Liz Greene defies this old tradition and digs deep into the hidden world of Saturn, the ruler of time. In a stunning way, Greene shows her readers how Saturn's supposedly negative influence actually leads to fortification of an individual's strength, his determination and much more. At the same time, the author shows common patterns in personalities etc. when Saturn is at specific angles on the Birth Chart.
Since I'm lucky enough to know my exact time of birth, I was able to verify the things written down in this book not only to be true, but also stunningly precise! Ranging from the troubled conditions of my birth to the relationship I have with my parents... Everything I wanted to learn about Saturn, I discovered by reading this intriguing book. 5 stars!
July 30, 2012
I'm not sure if anyone grasps psychological astrology like Liz Greene does. This book (and her others) prove it. I doubt if anyone would even dare to write about Saturn and attempt to surpass this book. It wouldn't be possible. She's brilliant, to say the least.
November 2, 2010
Recommended for anyone who fears the Saturn return! Liz Greene's sharp insights, and symbolic emphasis, broaden traditional (re: negative) interpretations of Saturn for a more holistic understanding of how Saturn operates and interacts in our charts. This will definitely be a go-to book for chart interpretations. By the end of the book you have a well developed vocabulary for Saturn, and are easily attuned to its patterning, methods and character.
August 7, 2012
It was hard for me to rate this as I've read about Saturn for the last 25 years....so, basically it wasn't all that new to me, but I did find some new insight. I wished Liz Greene would've given some examples and positive suggestions to Saturn placements instead of stating all the hard life situations.
August 19, 2008
Best book I've found about Saturn.
April 16, 2020
Some interesting and Truthful stats regarding Saturn, the No:9 and their association to Satan, all of which were sourced from either NASA's official website or Wikipedia.
There are other telling Numbers such as 13, 369 (and combo's thereof), and most especially the No:23 (and 32, which is No:23 reversed).
The No:369 sequence is regarded as the "Key to Unlocking the Universe" by our worlds (to my mind) greatest ever inventer/scientist Nikola Tesla.
The No:69 is also very relevant, as this number represents duality ie male&female, above&below, good&evil, love&hate etc & so forth......'all' of these numbers and what they represent can be regarded as 'mysticism' ie magick, which we are warned about in the Scriptures in Deuteronomy 18, by the Lord our God and further expanded on in John Daniels brilliant book; Scarlet and the Beast, and Alexander Hislopps, The Two Babylons.
1) Saturn distance from Sun is approx 900 (No:9) million miles.
2) Saturn's diameter is aporox 9 times that of Earth, or 72,ooo miles (No:9).
3) Saturn is over 9 times the mass of Earth (No:9)
4) Wind speeds of up to 1,800 kph (8+1=No:9)
5) Saturn is the 6th planet from Sun (inverted No:9)
6) Saturn has more than 60 moons, 9 of which have yet to be provisioned (No:69)
7) effective temperature is 288f; divide this by 3=96 (a possible 369 combo or just No:96).
8) Saturn density is 0.69 cm3 (possible 369 combo or No:69).
9) Saturn day equals 10.7 Earth hours, times this by 9 and you get 963.
10) Saturn takes 29.4 Earth years to orbit the Sun (number 15, or 33, which is an inverted No:9).
11) Saturn has an axis/tilt of 26.73* degrees (which is 18 or again No:9).
If you take a closer look at the last two number sequences of 10) & 11), it can be seen that if we took the figure 26.73 and times this by 9, then you come to 240.57 which I believe represents 24hrs and 57 seconds.
If we then take a closer look at the sequence 29.4 it can be seen that this figure is representative of the extra day in a leap year (29 days in February) and that the .4 represents every 4yrs.
If you times the 57 seconds by 365 and then times by 4, then you come to 83,220 seconds, which is very close to to a full day of 86,400 seconds........this info was not sourced from any book or website and as The Lord is my witness, I have never bought, owned, borrowed or in any way dabbled in 'the occult'........all of this (and other posts) was/were shown to me (I was steered towards), all I did was ask Him to be shown the Truth of the world (for which I am very grateful).
Take a look at leap-year stats as they change constantly by way of a tweak here & there.
Search: Everything is Electric website and sub search: Was Saturn Our Sun? and you should be guided to an intriguing post that informs the reader that 'all' the Earths early civilisations, to include the Messopotamians, Chaldeans, Chinese, Hindus, Egyptians, etc & so forth, ALL of these ancient civilisations sited Saturn as the 'primary' or best Sun.......yet we are not taught/informed of this anywhere, let alone in school. Emmanuel Velikovsky, a prominent Scholar who founded the University of Israel (along with his colleague Albert Einstein), wrote a very 'non-mainstream' books entitled; Worlds in Collision & Earth in Upheavel (circa 1950), which theorised & postulated many 'out there' ideas, for which he (Velikovsky) was given an incredibly hard time for by his 'peers' ie the mainstream.......go and look at the reviews for Velikovky's books on Amazon to guage a better insight as to their content, which I myself do not fully agree with but there is much intriguing Biblical evidence used which is (I suspect) the real reason why Velikovsky was given such a rough time of it......there are some great posts of ancient flood stories from different parts of the world on the same Everything is Electric website that are well worth looking at if you are interested in looking for further evidence to substantiate the Biblical narrative.
The word 'plane' is Greek in origin and describes a vast expanse of level/flat land. In mathematics the word 'plane' describes an infinite horizontal surface.
The word 'planet' has no clear origins, but is described as a wanderer or wandering star. Lucifer (Satan) was cast down to Earth (by Almighty God) in the form of a lightning bolt during a tempest "to wander the Earth".......the word planet is No:23 and it's well worth noting that a 'hallmark' of Lucifer/Satan, is to take something of The Lord's and warp/twist it into a version of his own, in this case the word plane, which is Truth, to planet, which is deceit ie 'a lie'.
The stats for the Spring Equinox are 20th March (No:23) and Autumn is 23rd September, which is a straight No:23 and Sept is 9, add to 23=32, which is No:23 reversed.
As I wrote this the stats for the Three Gorges Damm in China came on the TV.......the damm is 181 meters high by 2309 meters wide. The 23 and 9 we already know about but the 181 represents 18, which is 9, then take 81, which is 9x9, making a stylised 666, the Mark of Satan.......I was then compelled to change channels where I saw the Queen Mary, the stats of which are 181 ft high, by 1,019 ft long. I believe the 119 represents the verse 9:11 in the Book of Revelations; "And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek hath his name Apollyon" Abaddon & Apollo are recognised as 'destroyers' in their respective cultures (Abaddon is No:23).......the last voyage of The Queen Mary took place on 31/10/1967 which is both No:23 reversed (31/10) and straight (1967).
David Bowie's last album Blackstar is in fact a reference to Saturn aka Satan, and Bowie was exactly 69 when he officially died(?) on the 10/01/2016 (which again is No:23, take 1+1=2 and then 2+1=3, if you invert the number 6 to make a 9, then you have number 32, which is No:23 reversed)......Bowie was also said to have died of cancer, the star sign of which is the No:69 at a 90* angle. On the front of the Blackstar album, you will find a collection of parts of a pentegram. If you were to number the parts of the pentegram from 1 to 5 starting from the top, it can be seen that the parts add up to 4, 15, 11, 10, 8, 6, making 54, which is No:9, or again the No:69 if you were to include the large pentagram.......if you were to condense the numbers down to single digits, then we 4, 6, 2, 1, 8, 6, making 27, which is No:9, or the number 33, which again is No:9 if inverted.......furthermore, if you take the numbers 492( top), 357 (middle), 816 (bottom) and stack them one above the other to make a square, it can be seen that that the number 15 (number 6 or No:9 inverted) is reached both vertically, horizontally & diagonally. This arrangement is known as Solomon's Square and is also in reference to Saturn......search; Saturn's North Pole and you will see images that clearly show Saturn has a geometrical hexagon formation, which 'common sense' informs us is totally at odds with our current laws of physics but people generally will readily swallow & accept 'anything' they are told today. You need to ask yourself "where is the line?"
The number sequence September the 11th 2001 looks like this when broken down; 09/11/2001, which equates No:23 straight, 9+11+2+1=No:23, or you can take 11/2001=No:23 and add the 9 to make 32, which is No:23 reversed.......9/11 is also a direct reference to verse 9:11 Book of Revelations ie 'the destroyer'.
Some stats concerning the moon Pan (No:13), which is Saturn's most prominent moon and who's designated number is S/ 1981 S13, which translates to many sequences, to include 119, which is 911 reversed (S=1); No:18, which is 6+6+6 and also No:9; 113 making No:23 (again S=1) which is also the No:13 on its own; all the numbers 1+9+8+1+1+3 add up to No:23..........then you have the official number for Pan which is XV111, which is No:18, which again can also be 666 or No:9.........Pan was named on the 16/09/1991, which adds up to 36, which could well denote 3x6 ie 666, for if you were add 1, then 2, then 3, all the way up to 36, then you come to the number 666.......Pan is also the 'god of the witches' and is especially known for his musical skills & for 'endowing/bestowing' these onto people (think of Prince, Bowie, Bjork, Bush, Oldfield etc....even Peter Pan & The Pied Piper) also known for his attributes of lust, lasciviousness, eroticism and wild & ecstatic behaviour when 'playing the pipes'.......Pan was referred to as the Devil by early Christians.
"For we wrestle not against flesh & blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" Ephesians 6:12
"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the courses of this world, according to the Prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh & mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others" Ephesians 2:1-3
Derek Prince and his Ministry, which can be found online, has some excellent sermons explaining how the 'real' battle for our salvation is happening in "the heavenly realms" in a place you & I cannot see.......I urge you to at least go and hear what this amazing Man of God has to offer by way of spiritual guidance (administering The Word of God).
The purpose of highlighting this info ie placing it in the public domain, is to hopefully make the ignorant more aware that we are in fact in a spiritual battle between the forces of good & evil, which as I understand it has been happening ever since that fateful day when both Adam & Eve ate of the forbidden fruit ie Tree of Life, setting off events as described in the Holy Bible (our instructions).
If you believe this is too out there to be True, then try posting this info on the larger social media platforms and see what happens......you 'only' get this kind of response as meaningful Truth has no place in this (Satan's) world.......Shalom.
There are other telling Numbers such as 13, 369 (and combo's thereof), and most especially the No:23 (and 32, which is No:23 reversed).
The No:369 sequence is regarded as the "Key to Unlocking the Universe" by our worlds (to my mind) greatest ever inventer/scientist Nikola Tesla.
The No:69 is also very relevant, as this number represents duality ie male&female, above&below, good&evil, love&hate etc & so forth......'all' of these numbers and what they represent can be regarded as 'mysticism' ie magick, which we are warned about in the Scriptures in Deuteronomy 18, by the Lord our God and further expanded on in John Daniels brilliant book; Scarlet and the Beast, and Alexander Hislopps, The Two Babylons.
1) Saturn distance from Sun is approx 900 (No:9) million miles.
2) Saturn's diameter is aporox 9 times that of Earth, or 72,ooo miles (No:9).
3) Saturn is over 9 times the mass of Earth (No:9)
4) Wind speeds of up to 1,800 kph (8+1=No:9)
5) Saturn is the 6th planet from Sun (inverted No:9)
6) Saturn has more than 60 moons, 9 of which have yet to be provisioned (No:69)
7) effective temperature is 288f; divide this by 3=96 (a possible 369 combo or just No:96).
8) Saturn density is 0.69 cm3 (possible 369 combo or No:69).
9) Saturn day equals 10.7 Earth hours, times this by 9 and you get 963.
10) Saturn takes 29.4 Earth years to orbit the Sun (number 15, or 33, which is an inverted No:9).
11) Saturn has an axis/tilt of 26.73* degrees (which is 18 or again No:9).
If you take a closer look at the last two number sequences of 10) & 11), it can be seen that if we took the figure 26.73 and times this by 9, then you come to 240.57 which I believe represents 24hrs and 57 seconds.
If we then take a closer look at the sequence 29.4 it can be seen that this figure is representative of the extra day in a leap year (29 days in February) and that the .4 represents every 4yrs.
If you times the 57 seconds by 365 and then times by 4, then you come to 83,220 seconds, which is very close to to a full day of 86,400 seconds........this info was not sourced from any book or website and as The Lord is my witness, I have never bought, owned, borrowed or in any way dabbled in 'the occult'........all of this (and other posts) was/were shown to me (I was steered towards), all I did was ask Him to be shown the Truth of the world (for which I am very grateful).
Take a look at leap-year stats as they change constantly by way of a tweak here & there.
Search: Everything is Electric website and sub search: Was Saturn Our Sun? and you should be guided to an intriguing post that informs the reader that 'all' the Earths early civilisations, to include the Messopotamians, Chaldeans, Chinese, Hindus, Egyptians, etc & so forth, ALL of these ancient civilisations sited Saturn as the 'primary' or best Sun.......yet we are not taught/informed of this anywhere, let alone in school. Emmanuel Velikovsky, a prominent Scholar who founded the University of Israel (along with his colleague Albert Einstein), wrote a very 'non-mainstream' books entitled; Worlds in Collision & Earth in Upheavel (circa 1950), which theorised & postulated many 'out there' ideas, for which he (Velikovsky) was given an incredibly hard time for by his 'peers' ie the mainstream.......go and look at the reviews for Velikovky's books on Amazon to guage a better insight as to their content, which I myself do not fully agree with but there is much intriguing Biblical evidence used which is (I suspect) the real reason why Velikovsky was given such a rough time of it......there are some great posts of ancient flood stories from different parts of the world on the same Everything is Electric website that are well worth looking at if you are interested in looking for further evidence to substantiate the Biblical narrative.
The word 'plane' is Greek in origin and describes a vast expanse of level/flat land. In mathematics the word 'plane' describes an infinite horizontal surface.
The word 'planet' has no clear origins, but is described as a wanderer or wandering star. Lucifer (Satan) was cast down to Earth (by Almighty God) in the form of a lightning bolt during a tempest "to wander the Earth".......the word planet is No:23 and it's well worth noting that a 'hallmark' of Lucifer/Satan, is to take something of The Lord's and warp/twist it into a version of his own, in this case the word plane, which is Truth, to planet, which is deceit ie 'a lie'.
The stats for the Spring Equinox are 20th March (No:23) and Autumn is 23rd September, which is a straight No:23 and Sept is 9, add to 23=32, which is No:23 reversed.
As I wrote this the stats for the Three Gorges Damm in China came on the TV.......the damm is 181 meters high by 2309 meters wide. The 23 and 9 we already know about but the 181 represents 18, which is 9, then take 81, which is 9x9, making a stylised 666, the Mark of Satan.......I was then compelled to change channels where I saw the Queen Mary, the stats of which are 181 ft high, by 1,019 ft long. I believe the 119 represents the verse 9:11 in the Book of Revelations; "And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek hath his name Apollyon" Abaddon & Apollo are recognised as 'destroyers' in their respective cultures (Abaddon is No:23).......the last voyage of The Queen Mary took place on 31/10/1967 which is both No:23 reversed (31/10) and straight (1967).
David Bowie's last album Blackstar is in fact a reference to Saturn aka Satan, and Bowie was exactly 69 when he officially died(?) on the 10/01/2016 (which again is No:23, take 1+1=2 and then 2+1=3, if you invert the number 6 to make a 9, then you have number 32, which is No:23 reversed)......Bowie was also said to have died of cancer, the star sign of which is the No:69 at a 90* angle. On the front of the Blackstar album, you will find a collection of parts of a pentegram. If you were to number the parts of the pentegram from 1 to 5 starting from the top, it can be seen that the parts add up to 4, 15, 11, 10, 8, 6, making 54, which is No:9, or again the No:69 if you were to include the large pentagram.......if you were to condense the numbers down to single digits, then we 4, 6, 2, 1, 8, 6, making 27, which is No:9, or the number 33, which again is No:9 if inverted.......furthermore, if you take the numbers 492( top), 357 (middle), 816 (bottom) and stack them one above the other to make a square, it can be seen that that the number 15 (number 6 or No:9 inverted) is reached both vertically, horizontally & diagonally. This arrangement is known as Solomon's Square and is also in reference to Saturn......search; Saturn's North Pole and you will see images that clearly show Saturn has a geometrical hexagon formation, which 'common sense' informs us is totally at odds with our current laws of physics but people generally will readily swallow & accept 'anything' they are told today. You need to ask yourself "where is the line?"
The number sequence September the 11th 2001 looks like this when broken down; 09/11/2001, which equates No:23 straight, 9+11+2+1=No:23, or you can take 11/2001=No:23 and add the 9 to make 32, which is No:23 reversed.......9/11 is also a direct reference to verse 9:11 Book of Revelations ie 'the destroyer'.
Some stats concerning the moon Pan (No:13), which is Saturn's most prominent moon and who's designated number is S/ 1981 S13, which translates to many sequences, to include 119, which is 911 reversed (S=1); No:18, which is 6+6+6 and also No:9; 113 making No:23 (again S=1) which is also the No:13 on its own; all the numbers 1+9+8+1+1+3 add up to No:23..........then you have the official number for Pan which is XV111, which is No:18, which again can also be 666 or No:9.........Pan was named on the 16/09/1991, which adds up to 36, which could well denote 3x6 ie 666, for if you were add 1, then 2, then 3, all the way up to 36, then you come to the number 666.......Pan is also the 'god of the witches' and is especially known for his musical skills & for 'endowing/bestowing' these onto people (think of Prince, Bowie, Bjork, Bush, Oldfield etc....even Peter Pan & The Pied Piper) also known for his attributes of lust, lasciviousness, eroticism and wild & ecstatic behaviour when 'playing the pipes'.......Pan was referred to as the Devil by early Christians.
"For we wrestle not against flesh & blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" Ephesians 6:12
"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the courses of this world, according to the Prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh & mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others" Ephesians 2:1-3
Derek Prince and his Ministry, which can be found online, has some excellent sermons explaining how the 'real' battle for our salvation is happening in "the heavenly realms" in a place you & I cannot see.......I urge you to at least go and hear what this amazing Man of God has to offer by way of spiritual guidance (administering The Word of God).
The purpose of highlighting this info ie placing it in the public domain, is to hopefully make the ignorant more aware that we are in fact in a spiritual battle between the forces of good & evil, which as I understand it has been happening ever since that fateful day when both Adam & Eve ate of the forbidden fruit ie Tree of Life, setting off events as described in the Holy Bible (our instructions).
If you believe this is too out there to be True, then try posting this info on the larger social media platforms and see what happens......you 'only' get this kind of response as meaningful Truth has no place in this (Satan's) world.......Shalom.
March 8, 2026
3.5
This was a book I've been wanting to get to for a long time because of how groundbreaking Liz Greene's work was for the development of modern astrology, and in this case recontextualizing Saturn from the notion of a completely 'bad' and malefic planet into a symbol that contains a lot of nuance, and giving it a (jungian) psychological dimension that pertains to growth, development, and maturation.
Liz Greene has shown true expertise in this work and I understand now why this book why was so groundbreaking for it's time and gotten all of its renown.
Putting that aside, though much knowledge can still be gathered from this and would still be valuable to any astrologer wanting to dive deeper into Saturn, for me personally as an astrologer rooted in the Hellenistic practice it was quite hard for me not to disagree with a lot of the arguments being made, stemming mostly from my apparent allergic reaction to things like the ABC house system and modern rulerships (which is most likely just a me-problem that I should work through hahah).
But to add to that I just really felt like the book is a bit outdated, which I could notice in the way it talked in its gender binaries. I understand that a lot of this is coming from a jungian approach in which the 'feminine' and 'masculine' are the anima and the animus, and though I have much love for jungian psychology, this facet is still one that I have some quarrels with; but with that in mind, the book still took a very binary approach in looking at the delineations and applications of its relational dynamics, which is something that threw me off a bit sometimes, but with taking it as a grain of salt, did not keep me from enjoying this book.
All in all, I want to stress again that this a very valuable book to any astrologer out there and definitely a book to come back to in the future because regardless of your astrological background, the knowledge that Liz Greene presented was truly masterful which can at the very least spark new insights and new perspectives.
This was a book I've been wanting to get to for a long time because of how groundbreaking Liz Greene's work was for the development of modern astrology, and in this case recontextualizing Saturn from the notion of a completely 'bad' and malefic planet into a symbol that contains a lot of nuance, and giving it a (jungian) psychological dimension that pertains to growth, development, and maturation.
Liz Greene has shown true expertise in this work and I understand now why this book why was so groundbreaking for it's time and gotten all of its renown.
Putting that aside, though much knowledge can still be gathered from this and would still be valuable to any astrologer wanting to dive deeper into Saturn, for me personally as an astrologer rooted in the Hellenistic practice it was quite hard for me not to disagree with a lot of the arguments being made, stemming mostly from my apparent allergic reaction to things like the ABC house system and modern rulerships (which is most likely just a me-problem that I should work through hahah).
But to add to that I just really felt like the book is a bit outdated, which I could notice in the way it talked in its gender binaries. I understand that a lot of this is coming from a jungian approach in which the 'feminine' and 'masculine' are the anima and the animus, and though I have much love for jungian psychology, this facet is still one that I have some quarrels with; but with that in mind, the book still took a very binary approach in looking at the delineations and applications of its relational dynamics, which is something that threw me off a bit sometimes, but with taking it as a grain of salt, did not keep me from enjoying this book.
All in all, I want to stress again that this a very valuable book to any astrologer out there and definitely a book to come back to in the future because regardless of your astrological background, the knowledge that Liz Greene presented was truly masterful which can at the very least spark new insights and new perspectives.
March 21, 2009
An excellent description of the deeper meanings of the planet/god saturn when used astrologically. Presumes some prior knowledge.
February 16, 2013
If you are into psychological astrology, this is probably one of the best offerings in that field. This is not easy or light reading, but there are quite a few insights to be found.
January 17, 2015
Liz Greene's surprisingly accessible guide to Saturn in the birthchart. Anyone with a basic knowledge astrology can benefit from her insight.
August 27, 2025
“I am neither spurred on by excessive optimism nor in love with high ideals, but am merely concerned with the fate of the individual human being - that infinitesimal unit on whom a world depends, and in whom, if we read the meaning of the Christian message aright, even God seeks his goal.” ~ Carl Jung
probably one of the best books ive ever read, cannot wait to read more from liz greene
probably one of the best books ive ever read, cannot wait to read more from liz greene
February 14, 2024
This book is about understanding astrology through psychological lenses with spiritual underlinings. "It's all connected", and "Everything is one" are phrases that I have often come across in my pursuit of exploring consciousness. In this book, I could actually see those three different themes - astrology, psychology, and spirituality - merge together. Four stars for a great integration and one star taken away for the portions that zoomed completely over my head.
July 7, 2019
An arrogant and judgmental writing style
I found the author's writing style to be arrogant and judgmental especially when it comes to Christians and Christianity. I also found it ironic that a book about synthesizing the view of Saturn being a negative planet in Astrology with a new more positive look at Saturn is so quick to dismiss and judge Christians instead of being able to also synthesize Christianity and Astrology which are often at odds with each other. As someone who likes astrology and metaphysical matters but also identifies as Christian, I found this odd. I was so disturbed by the narcissistic writing style, that I quickly read only the Saturn parts relating to my birth chart and had to close the book.
I found the author's writing style to be arrogant and judgmental especially when it comes to Christians and Christianity. I also found it ironic that a book about synthesizing the view of Saturn being a negative planet in Astrology with a new more positive look at Saturn is so quick to dismiss and judge Christians instead of being able to also synthesize Christianity and Astrology which are often at odds with each other. As someone who likes astrology and metaphysical matters but also identifies as Christian, I found this odd. I was so disturbed by the narcissistic writing style, that I quickly read only the Saturn parts relating to my birth chart and had to close the book.
May 27, 2019
I'm blown away about Liz' understanding about astrology and psychology!
This was my first book by her.
Saturn is quite dominant in my chart and this gave me so much more insight into how he functions and behaves in aspects with the other planets.
This was my first book by her.
Saturn is quite dominant in my chart and this gave me so much more insight into how he functions and behaves in aspects with the other planets.
June 5, 2022
This book is basically like a psychotherapist you’ve been talking to for months and who knows the depths of your despair and the names of all your demons.
April 14, 2023
There’s definitely some gems in here but it was published almost 50 years ago and it shows!
March 30, 2024
4.5 stars ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️💫
Important, useful, easy to digest intro to Saturn in his many forms and relationships! Minus half a star just for the heteronormativity of this text, which has always squigged me out in any astro texts, especially when Christianity is also often referenced. (To be clear, Green did not push any sort of Christian agenda; there were mentions of Christian iconography to connect culturally relavent imagery for the Western audience this was intended for, in reference to archetypes/images that we share in our collective consciousness). To Green’s credit again, the heteronormative language was generally in reference to feminine and masculine energy that exists in everyone and she also referenced a “transexual mix” of both (I think it was a Jungian reference) which I appreciated but also kind of winced at. She didn’t say anything heinous, this is more about my subjective discomfort at the dated language. Hence the final 5 star rating ;^) Highly recommend this text to baby astrologers looking to improve their foundational knowledge.
Important, useful, easy to digest intro to Saturn in his many forms and relationships! Minus half a star just for the heteronormativity of this text, which has always squigged me out in any astro texts, especially when Christianity is also often referenced. (To be clear, Green did not push any sort of Christian agenda; there were mentions of Christian iconography to connect culturally relavent imagery for the Western audience this was intended for, in reference to archetypes/images that we share in our collective consciousness). To Green’s credit again, the heteronormative language was generally in reference to feminine and masculine energy that exists in everyone and she also referenced a “transexual mix” of both (I think it was a Jungian reference) which I appreciated but also kind of winced at. She didn’t say anything heinous, this is more about my subjective discomfort at the dated language. Hence the final 5 star rating ;^) Highly recommend this text to baby astrologers looking to improve their foundational knowledge.
July 14, 2024
Very dense material, but the information is super helpful.
January 7, 2020
A very negative view of Saturn. Perhaps this was seen as more constructive when it was written, but now it seems needlessly damning. Saturn is a big influencer in my chart and I see it as part of my success in life - hard won sure - but substantial. According to this book I’m statistically (what are these statistics?) most likely to become depressed and commit suicide!! Also the houses are NOT the same as the signs.
September 2, 2025
I really enjoyed how Greene examines Saturn through its signs, houses, and aspects, but I am pretty tired of the constant gender roles and bioessentialism that I find in most astrological scholarship, especially when the author promotes "both/and" approaches instead of "either/or" ones in every other context of the work. Some of the things said about Venus and women… lol
March 8, 2010
eye openner...that really answered some of my questions...sometimes I wonder knowing too much is not a good thing...I am too smart for my own good.
August 2, 2017
Wanted to enjoy this dark planet mythology but it was too meandering and hetero/gendernormative. Meh.
June 12, 2025
I have saturn in cancer, 10th house.
psychic energy. like physical energy cannot be destroyed, as such:
"Blockage on the level of the feeling nature is symbolised by Saturn in a watery sign or house, and true to form the psychic energy which would ordinarily seek release through expression of feeling must take another channel of expression—frequently through the physical body or through certain kinds of events."
regarding planets in the 4th house:
any planet placed here is highly suspect because it points to something in the psyche which must be first discovered and brought up to the surface before it can be dealt with constructively.
'It may be assumed that Saturn in the tenth house refers to limitations, delays, and difficulties in the achievement of one's goals and in the successful expression of the self outward to the group as well as intense ambition—frequently unconscious—and a determination to succeed whatever the cost.the tenth house is traditionally associated with achievement, honor, ambition, and authority, and the cusp of the tenth house by the quadrant systems— the midheaven—is symbolic of the image which one projects outward to society as well as the image which is held inwardly by the person of his “role” in life.The inner sense of purpose, drive, and responsibility is often very strong when Saturn is in the tenth house, particularly if he is conjuncting the midheaven. There is frequently a strong sense of fate with regard to the role in life. Often sacrifice is required and a long, arduous process of building and preparation, where the personality with its desire for recognition drives the man on until he has achieved some degree of notice or responsibility. It is generally only later that, as the integration occurs which allows him to understand himself and his inner motivations better, the larger reason begins to emerge as to why he has done all that work."
in relation to saturn in 10th woth a powerful mother fogure or absent dad: "In all these situations the seed is sown for a powerful influence on the psychic level which must be dealt with by the individual before he is able to express his full potential. He must symbolically cut the emotional umbilical cord, which generally remains well into dulthood."
femininity:
A woman with a tenth house Saturn may have equally serious obstacles to overcome for women must learn from their mothers the means and ways of femininity, and if a mother's nature is symbolised by Saturn, it is unlikely that the feminine principle will be the primary thing expressed.
another:
An intense self-consciousness and great sensitivity to public opinion are common reflections of Saturn in the tenth house, as well as a fear of failure and a propensity to attract situations which are publicly embarrassing in some way.
again:
Professionally the person with Saturn in the tenth house is generally successful, largely because he tries so hard and is so persistent. He does not work well under others because although he may for a time be able to present the smooth surface of humility which is such a gift of the Saturnian personality, his own ambition and love of success will eventually push him out on his own. His problem does not lie in the achievement of success once he has begun his climb. It is getting started in the first place which is the initial task and which involves his overcoming a fear of failure which may lead to inertia. The remainder of the task is to establish a definition of achievement which is not based on purely external values.
the work of Saturn in the 10H house:
It is usually the work of Saturn in the tenth house to give structure and form to some group idea. If an individual refuses to accept the offer of this opportunity and attempts to live his task through another person, he generally must accept the price of frustration and a sense of purposelessness. If he accepts the challenge of his own inner self, then he himself can become Saturn the teacher in his most beneficent form.
saturn is still transiting my 6th house until 2028:
"Saturn in the sixth house seems to provide an opportunity— often through frustration, disappointment, and ill health—for a journey into the mysteries of the interconnexion between mind and body and the possibility of a conscious and deliberate synthesis of these two, the reward of which is good health and a new awareness of the meaning of the body and of the material environment. Few people, however, are aware of this opportunity because we are not made aware that there might be a deeper meaning to work and to health. More commonly Saturn placed in the sixth refers to a state of disease, of discomfort, or of frustration and limitation in one's work situation."
interesting thing , as 10th is the end of development of personality, and 11th and 12th relates to the collective and transpersonal consciousness
"People who are strongly Aquarian or Piscean in temperament, yet who have not yet developed a purpose which permits them participation in a larger expression, are often lost creatures, and it is perhaps more difficult for this kind of temperament now because the idea of group consciousness is not yet a reality"
psychic energy. like physical energy cannot be destroyed, as such:
"Blockage on the level of the feeling nature is symbolised by Saturn in a watery sign or house, and true to form the psychic energy which would ordinarily seek release through expression of feeling must take another channel of expression—frequently through the physical body or through certain kinds of events."
regarding planets in the 4th house:
any planet placed here is highly suspect because it points to something in the psyche which must be first discovered and brought up to the surface before it can be dealt with constructively.
'It may be assumed that Saturn in the tenth house refers to limitations, delays, and difficulties in the achievement of one's goals and in the successful expression of the self outward to the group as well as intense ambition—frequently unconscious—and a determination to succeed whatever the cost.the tenth house is traditionally associated with achievement, honor, ambition, and authority, and the cusp of the tenth house by the quadrant systems— the midheaven—is symbolic of the image which one projects outward to society as well as the image which is held inwardly by the person of his “role” in life.The inner sense of purpose, drive, and responsibility is often very strong when Saturn is in the tenth house, particularly if he is conjuncting the midheaven. There is frequently a strong sense of fate with regard to the role in life. Often sacrifice is required and a long, arduous process of building and preparation, where the personality with its desire for recognition drives the man on until he has achieved some degree of notice or responsibility. It is generally only later that, as the integration occurs which allows him to understand himself and his inner motivations better, the larger reason begins to emerge as to why he has done all that work."
in relation to saturn in 10th woth a powerful mother fogure or absent dad: "In all these situations the seed is sown for a powerful influence on the psychic level which must be dealt with by the individual before he is able to express his full potential. He must symbolically cut the emotional umbilical cord, which generally remains well into dulthood."
femininity:
A woman with a tenth house Saturn may have equally serious obstacles to overcome for women must learn from their mothers the means and ways of femininity, and if a mother's nature is symbolised by Saturn, it is unlikely that the feminine principle will be the primary thing expressed.
another:
An intense self-consciousness and great sensitivity to public opinion are common reflections of Saturn in the tenth house, as well as a fear of failure and a propensity to attract situations which are publicly embarrassing in some way.
again:
Professionally the person with Saturn in the tenth house is generally successful, largely because he tries so hard and is so persistent. He does not work well under others because although he may for a time be able to present the smooth surface of humility which is such a gift of the Saturnian personality, his own ambition and love of success will eventually push him out on his own. His problem does not lie in the achievement of success once he has begun his climb. It is getting started in the first place which is the initial task and which involves his overcoming a fear of failure which may lead to inertia. The remainder of the task is to establish a definition of achievement which is not based on purely external values.
the work of Saturn in the 10H house:
It is usually the work of Saturn in the tenth house to give structure and form to some group idea. If an individual refuses to accept the offer of this opportunity and attempts to live his task through another person, he generally must accept the price of frustration and a sense of purposelessness. If he accepts the challenge of his own inner self, then he himself can become Saturn the teacher in his most beneficent form.
saturn is still transiting my 6th house until 2028:
"Saturn in the sixth house seems to provide an opportunity— often through frustration, disappointment, and ill health—for a journey into the mysteries of the interconnexion between mind and body and the possibility of a conscious and deliberate synthesis of these two, the reward of which is good health and a new awareness of the meaning of the body and of the material environment. Few people, however, are aware of this opportunity because we are not made aware that there might be a deeper meaning to work and to health. More commonly Saturn placed in the sixth refers to a state of disease, of discomfort, or of frustration and limitation in one's work situation."
interesting thing , as 10th is the end of development of personality, and 11th and 12th relates to the collective and transpersonal consciousness
"People who are strongly Aquarian or Piscean in temperament, yet who have not yet developed a purpose which permits them participation in a larger expression, are often lost creatures, and it is perhaps more difficult for this kind of temperament now because the idea of group consciousness is not yet a reality"
December 5, 2023
”What we forget about relationships is that we do not generally form them for the purpose of being happy; we form them to complete something incomplete, and they are therefore a process of growth rather than an end in themselves. In this is implicit the idea that no relationship which does stimulate growth can exist without some pain and limitation although we tend through ignorance of ourselves to exaggerate the pain and minimise the growth.”
This book is the comprehensive guide to the astrological symbolism of Saturn in a natal chart. It is not for the faint of heart; Liz Greene does not sugarcoat any house placements or aspects, and if you pick up Saturn: A New Look at an Old Devil hoping for guidance on your Saturn Return, please be advised that her definition of this planet is “the educational value of pain.” Sometimes, she takes this philosophy a step too far. For example, the suggestion that those who have “sadistic” acts inflicted upon them are somehow “attracting” pain through their natal Saturn placements will be repugnant to anyone who has witnessed human suffering. That said, there is something compelling about her assertions that “criticism is the darker form of need” and “it’s by the tension of opposites that we grow and evolve.” This book is about taking a good hard look at your “shadow” self, and reflecting on the darkness to facilitate growth.
This book is the comprehensive guide to the astrological symbolism of Saturn in a natal chart. It is not for the faint of heart; Liz Greene does not sugarcoat any house placements or aspects, and if you pick up Saturn: A New Look at an Old Devil hoping for guidance on your Saturn Return, please be advised that her definition of this planet is “the educational value of pain.” Sometimes, she takes this philosophy a step too far. For example, the suggestion that those who have “sadistic” acts inflicted upon them are somehow “attracting” pain through their natal Saturn placements will be repugnant to anyone who has witnessed human suffering. That said, there is something compelling about her assertions that “criticism is the darker form of need” and “it’s by the tension of opposites that we grow and evolve.” This book is about taking a good hard look at your “shadow” self, and reflecting on the darkness to facilitate growth.
September 20, 2025
This book definitely contains a lot of value and insights, although it is not an easy read - but perhaps that is very fitting for a book on Saturn.
Whether I recommend this book depends on how serious your interest is in learning something about Saturn. If you are seriously interested, it is a good choice. The author clearly knows what she is talking about and transmits a great deal of knowledge gained by experience and lengthy studying of the material, including her background in psychology. This brings depth and solid foundations.
It's not easily digestible though, and in some ways I feel we may have taken some steps forward in the evolution of our collective conscience since this book was written. While Greene is for her time doing something revolutionary by putting Saturn in a more positive light and attempting to bring more understanding to his value, in these times we are ready for a yet clearer understanding of this planet. In some parts I found a lot of recognition, yet in other parts I found it hard to understand what she was actually trying to describe and sometimes found myself re-reading a sentence three times, only to find that I still could not quite connect to the concept she was trying to transmit. Meanwhile, we can find some sarcastically-humorous observations throughout the text which I found very appropriate for the subject.
Whether I recommend this book depends on how serious your interest is in learning something about Saturn. If you are seriously interested, it is a good choice. The author clearly knows what she is talking about and transmits a great deal of knowledge gained by experience and lengthy studying of the material, including her background in psychology. This brings depth and solid foundations.
It's not easily digestible though, and in some ways I feel we may have taken some steps forward in the evolution of our collective conscience since this book was written. While Greene is for her time doing something revolutionary by putting Saturn in a more positive light and attempting to bring more understanding to his value, in these times we are ready for a yet clearer understanding of this planet. In some parts I found a lot of recognition, yet in other parts I found it hard to understand what she was actually trying to describe and sometimes found myself re-reading a sentence three times, only to find that I still could not quite connect to the concept she was trying to transmit. Meanwhile, we can find some sarcastically-humorous observations throughout the text which I found very appropriate for the subject.
Currently reading
December 29, 2025I have not finished yet but what is striking me thus far is Liz's use of the term "man" and "he" throughout the book, in reference to human beings (not Saturn). Every example thus far that she gives about an individual, they are a "he" and "man". I find this super odd.
Also she is making assumptions that are simply not what I see in people who are interested and engaged in astrology; for example she is talking about Saturn in 4th house/Cancer, and says that most people in this placement don't see a particular negative aspect about themselves (can't remember the specific thing) and are clueless. I happen to have Saturn in the 4th house (in Taurus) and I have seen and felt all of what she mentions in myself for years and it rang very true. I can't understand how an astrologer makes broad assumptions about "most" individuals and what they are aware of in their charts.
She also says that she agrees with the common notion of assigning the 4th house to the Father \, her reasoning is because the father is the one who establishes the backbone of the family. I so beg to differ. I am fine with assigning the father to the 4th house but the reasoning is weak and goes along with her bizarre exclusion of the female individual.
I am really getting a lot of perspective on Saturn that I welcome but a lot of her delivery is not resonant with me.
Also she is making assumptions that are simply not what I see in people who are interested and engaged in astrology; for example she is talking about Saturn in 4th house/Cancer, and says that most people in this placement don't see a particular negative aspect about themselves (can't remember the specific thing) and are clueless. I happen to have Saturn in the 4th house (in Taurus) and I have seen and felt all of what she mentions in myself for years and it rang very true. I can't understand how an astrologer makes broad assumptions about "most" individuals and what they are aware of in their charts.
She also says that she agrees with the common notion of assigning the 4th house to the Father \, her reasoning is because the father is the one who establishes the backbone of the family. I so beg to differ. I am fine with assigning the father to the 4th house but the reasoning is weak and goes along with her bizarre exclusion of the female individual.
I am really getting a lot of perspective on Saturn that I welcome but a lot of her delivery is not resonant with me.
August 8, 2023
read this one over the course of two days. i think it’s easier for me to digest books like this in as few sittings as possible; Dr. Greene’s writing is a bit more intellectually challenging than the caliber I’ve been used to, and I think if I had tried taking breaks over the course of a few days / weeks I might have given up before finishing.
a good book for sure, but a bit dense at times - felt like a challenge. was refreshing to have to re-read certain paragraphs 2x or 3x to really internalize her points.
i see the hype! i think every astrological source/school i’ve looked into has recommended this one, and i understand why. especially being published in the 1980s, it must have been a huge breath of fresh air - and her perspective on Saturn seems to have been integrated into the perspectives & philosophies of every other think I’ve read to date.
as is the issue with many of these books, it can be difficult to just read straight through—i’d recommend anyone else reading it start with several natal charts handy to think through embodied examples of the concepts she discusses at length (Saturn in each house; Saturn in Aspects; Synastry in Synastry, etc). I was going back & forth between the book and charts saved in my phone, and that particularly helped a lot.
a good book for sure, but a bit dense at times - felt like a challenge. was refreshing to have to re-read certain paragraphs 2x or 3x to really internalize her points.
i see the hype! i think every astrological source/school i’ve looked into has recommended this one, and i understand why. especially being published in the 1980s, it must have been a huge breath of fresh air - and her perspective on Saturn seems to have been integrated into the perspectives & philosophies of every other think I’ve read to date.
as is the issue with many of these books, it can be difficult to just read straight through—i’d recommend anyone else reading it start with several natal charts handy to think through embodied examples of the concepts she discusses at length (Saturn in each house; Saturn in Aspects; Synastry in Synastry, etc). I was going back & forth between the book and charts saved in my phone, and that particularly helped a lot.
February 24, 2026
Honestly, this book deserves 5 stars just due to the author and the amount of expertise she has and ability to communicate her knowledge. Overall it was a very thorough and well written book. There is no doubt on the author’s knowledge on this subject in astrology.
I myself rated this four stars just because the depth of this subject felt a bit too deep based on my current working knowledge of astrology, and in some ways it felt irrelevant. Like potentially too deep and thorough. It reads as a study, where I think the information could be more effectively conveyed higher level, bullet points etc. I suppose corporate America has left its mark on me in that way.
I will say, after reading this book and plunging myself into the deep end of a specific area of astrology, it has helped me continue to form the way I think and see it, helping me become more confident in my analysis of this discipline. Saturn is such a divisive energy, I think the book overall did a good job on explaining the duality of Saturn.
I myself rated this four stars just because the depth of this subject felt a bit too deep based on my current working knowledge of astrology, and in some ways it felt irrelevant. Like potentially too deep and thorough. It reads as a study, where I think the information could be more effectively conveyed higher level, bullet points etc. I suppose corporate America has left its mark on me in that way.
I will say, after reading this book and plunging myself into the deep end of a specific area of astrology, it has helped me continue to form the way I think and see it, helping me become more confident in my analysis of this discipline. Saturn is such a divisive energy, I think the book overall did a good job on explaining the duality of Saturn.
February 13, 2024
I didn't fully understood from the description of the book that I was about to jump into a bunch of superstition, mea culpa, but I go through it till the end.
I was positively surprised when in the forewords and with some beautiful citations from the Enneads those autors tell us that these presents a new way of understanding of astrology, to a new way of interpriting ancient symbols and udising those as tools for self-realization and self-actualization, and in conection to ideas from Freud and Jung, they got me.
At the end I truly got some beautiful iconography and metaphors, but It ended up being a bunch of superstition which I would recomend just for some ruely critical reader who will apply a disection criteria to extract some fine jewles from this writting and disscard the nonsense.
I do loved the iconografy they get from Saturn: "rucial role in sandpapering us so we can become better versions of ourselves".
I was positively surprised when in the forewords and with some beautiful citations from the Enneads those autors tell us that these presents a new way of understanding of astrology, to a new way of interpriting ancient symbols and udising those as tools for self-realization and self-actualization, and in conection to ideas from Freud and Jung, they got me.
At the end I truly got some beautiful iconography and metaphors, but It ended up being a bunch of superstition which I would recomend just for some ruely critical reader who will apply a disection criteria to extract some fine jewles from this writting and disscard the nonsense.
I do loved the iconografy they get from Saturn: "rucial role in sandpapering us so we can become better versions of ourselves".
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