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Foundation's Triumph

(Second Foundation Trilogy #3)

David Brin (Goodreads Author)

really liked it 4.00 · Rating details · 11,022 ratings · 66 reviews

Isaac Asimov's Foundation Trilogy is one of the highwater marks of science fiction.The monumental story of a Galactic Empire in decline and a secret society of scientists who seek to shorten the coming Dark Age with tools of Psychohistory, Foundation pioneered many themes of modern science fiction.Now, with the approval of the Asimov estate, three of today's most acclaimed ...more

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Paperback, 392 pages

Published June 1st 2000 by HarperTorch (first published 1999)

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Apr 06, 2012 Ethan I. Solomon rated it it was ok · review of another edition

I think that giving two stars to any of the books from this trilogy is actually being very generous, and is mostly because of the names involved and thus the quality they brought to the books. Nevertheless the books are a complete failure despite being set in Asimov's universe. The authors attempted to bring some of Asimov's genius to the table but were unable to convey their ideas in the gloriously simple and direct fashion that Asimov could. As a result the entire trilogy is extremely convolut ...more

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Aug 04, 2011 Daniel McGill rated it liked it

By far the best of the "new foundation trilogy" but I do not recommend reading the series, the guy who wrote the fist book did so much damage to the story to the point of not even using Asimov's physics that between them even Brin and the guy who wrote the middle book couldn't undo it all. Only read if you're a fanatical completionist. ...more

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Jul 02, 2007 Sarah rated it it was ok

Brin has some very interesting ideas in this book, but I think overall it's very poorly executed. He turns Daneel into a crazed megalomaniac and makes the robots responsible for the entire course of human history, and he attempts to explain Asimov's other books in terms of this robot theory, which is an interesting concept, but I think Asimov would be rolling in his grave. This was also just really difficult to get into, and confusing to try to keep track of who was on which side when, who was b ...more

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Mar 12, 2014 Henry Herz rated it it was amazing

This is the third installment of a post-Asimov Foundation trilogy. Consider the honor bestowed on Dr. Brin - being entrusted with this revered sci-fi classic. And he delivers the goods. He expands upon the Foundation universe in seamless fashion - I could easily have believed this was a newly discovered Asimov manuscript. The writing is smart and heartfelt. I found myself moved by the relationship between Hari and Dors. And I shared the characters' frustration when enormous archives of knowledge ...more

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Apr 01, 2014 Jeremiah Johnson rated it it was ok

This book was better than the previous two in this trilogy, but that isn't saying much.
Brin's writing is far superior to the other two authors, but I still couldn't get into the story. To his credit, they didn't leave him anything good to work with.
I am very torn over the notion that the robots were in charge of everything that happened throughout the Empire's history. While it makes sense and is believable, it doesn't seem like it is true to what Asimov's vision for the universe was.
The charact ...more

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Feb 13, 2011 John Derderian rated it liked it

This was the best of the 3B trilogy, and the only one that felt at all in the spirit of Asimov's originals. You probably have to read the other two to really appreciate this one, and I can't really recommend that. ...more

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Mar 18, 2011 Phil Giunta rated it really liked it

Isaac Asimov's classic Foundation series comes to a conclusion in a trilogy of novels each written by different noted SF authors. David Brin adequately delivers the final entry, Foundation's Triumph, with similar pacing and style as Greg Bear's Foundation and Chaos. Like Bear, Brin minimizes story elements introduced in Gregory Benford's opening book, Foundation's Fear. I was grateful for that, since Benford's 600 page sleeper was a disappointment and could have been trimmed by half.

I described Isaac Asimov's classic Foundation series comes to a conclusion in a trilogy of novels each written by different noted SF authors. David Brin adequately delivers the final entry, Foundation's Triumph, with similar pacing and style as Greg Bear's Foundation and Chaos. Like Bear, Brin minimizes story elements introduced in Gregory Benford's opening book, Foundation's Fear. I was grateful for that, since Benford's 600 page sleeper was a disappointment and could have been trimmed by half.

I described Brin's book as "adequate" mostly due to an ending that, to this reader, seemed like a chapter of exposition disguised as a philosophical discussion between aging protagonist Hari Seldon and the mysterious puppet-master, robot Daneel Olivaw. Both of these characters had been present from the very beginning of the Foundation series, with Olivaw then disguised as the galactic Emperor's right hand man, First Minister Eto Demerzel. Olivaw then vanished and re-appeared sparingly until the very end when elements threatened his grand plan for the future of humanity.

We learn in Brin's novel some startling facts about Olivaw's involvement in Hari Seldon's childhood years when the brilliant "mathist" began to show promise, alluding to the possibility that Olivaw had guided the burgeoning genius toward his career-defining discovery of "psychohistory"--a complex set of mathematical formulas for defining the future of the galactic Empire.

In the first half of Foundation's Triumph, Brin also picks up on Bear's introduction of "mentalics", humans with varying levels of telepathic abilities. It is clear that Seldon had not accounted for these elements in his psychohistorical equations and adapts to this by forming a secretive Second Foundation elsewhere in the galaxy. However, about mid-way through Brin's tale, the mentalics seem to fade into the background and the robots take the forefront. We learn more about the different sects of robots, some who follow Olivaw's teachings, others that oppose it, and yet more who fall somewhere in between.

Treated a bit more lightly by Brin are Seldon's robotic wife, Dors Venabili, and the emancipated robot Lodovik Trema. Sometime between Benford and Bear, Dors had faked her own death when she was recalled by Olivaw to be reassigned elsewhere. Trema was introduced in Foundation and Chaos as a robot once loyal to Olivaw but whose positronic brain was altered by a surge of neutrinos. This unexpected event caused Trema to question the Three Laws of Robotics set forth by Olivaw. Eventually, Trema decides that he is no longer bound by them and acts on his own volition.

Brin restricts Trema and Dors to the sidelines in Foundation's Triumph, at one point leaving them stranded in outer space for several chapters aboard one ship. Rather than completely abandoning them, however, Brin uses their predicament to soften Dors distrust of Trema. Shortly into the story, Dors is already questioning the motives of her master, Daneel Olivaw as a result of ancient robotic records given to her by Trema. By the end, Dors wants nothing more than to return to Hari Seldon's side one last time before he dies--a scene which Brin denies us. It never happens.

We'll never know if this is what the late Isaac Asimov intended for his beloved Foundation series. At the same time, I can appreciate the challenges faced by authors who undertake projects based in another writer's universe, especially when they are denied the benefit of that writer's consultation.
...more

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Oct 17, 2010 Colleen rated it liked it

Shelves: science-fiction

Brin's a good writer and I really liked Asimov's Foundation Trilogy when I read it in college, but I didn't particularly like this extension of the original. I guess utopias have lost their appeal. I didn't realize how devoid of action the original foundation books were. And this book was mostly conversations and theory. The omnicient computers run the universe and humans just have to follow their dictates. They've determined that some humans must be eliminated for the majority to be happy. Not ...more

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Dec 01, 2019 Jean Corbel rated it liked it

Shelves: sf

Neither the (dated) perspective and style of Asimov nor the challenging universe of the Uplift universe of Brin. All in all, very desapointing and verbose - for a master like Brin.

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Jan 12, 2011 Lis Carey rated it really liked it

Shelves: f-sf

This review has been hidden because it contains spoilers. To view it, click here. SPOILERS AHEAD; SKIP IF YOU'RE PLANNING TO READ THIS AND DON'T WANT TO KNOW. This is the third book in the new Foundation trilogy, and it's quite an interesting addition. Hari Seldon, now old, isolated from what's left of his family by the exigencies of the Plan, and no longer a major object of suspicion for the Imperial security forces, decides to pursue a minor mystery brought to him by a minor bureaucrat who has been working at the mathematics of psychohistory as a hobby. The mystery concerns SPOILERS AHEAD; SKIP IF YOU'RE PLANNING TO READ THIS AND DON'T WANT TO KNOW. This is the third book in the new Foundation trilogy, and it's quite an interesting addition. Hari Seldon, now old, isolated from what's left of his family by the exigencies of the Plan, and no longer a major object of suspicion for the Imperial security forces, decides to pursue a minor mystery brought to him by a minor bureaucrat who has been working at the mathematics of psychohistory as a hobby. The mystery concerns "tilling", the fact that nearly every human-inhabited planet was subjected to a major churning and grinding of the soil, making it suitable for agriculture, before humans arrived--in an expanding wave just ahead of the wave of human colonial expansion, in fact. There are exceptions, though, worlds where the process didn't happen, and substantial amounts of life unlike the life on most human worlds still survives. What do these anomalies mean? Why do they appear to track so well with the distribution of "chaos worlds", the worlds that experience a runaway outbreak of advancing science, art, and technology, before collapsing into equally runaway disaster?

Hari quickly discovers he's on the trail of something very important to psycohistory and the Plan, and Daneel, the Calvinian robots, imperial security, and several other forces are in hot pursuit of him. All fairly standard, except for where Brin takes this. Put simply, not only is psychohistory wrong, in the sense of inaccurate and inadequate to the job Hari's trying to do with it, but the goal is wrong. Hari's Plan rests on certain assumptions about human nature and human capacity that are not correct, based on facts which are incomplete and which have been subjected to seriously flawed analysis by Daneel and Giskard, which have never been checked against the wishes and opinions of humans. And Daneel has deliberately deceived Hari Seldon about these facts. He has done it from the best of motives, but he's wrong. He's concerned only with taking the safest path for the human species, not the best path; because of the Three Laws, and the Zeroth Law, he can't really distinguish between the two. Hari's plan is really Daneel's plan, and it's a mistake. At the end, it appears that Daneel's plan is triumphant; the hope for a genuinely human future--and perhaps a future where humans may finally be able to run the risk of meeting intelligent aliens--is that Hari's Foundation will be more robust than Hari or Daneel have believed, and prevent Daneel's rather horrifying, but very safe, Gaia plan from coming to fruition.

Altogether, a rather darker and more interesting book than I expected. ...more

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May 24, 2014 Jen rated it liked it · review of another edition

This is it! I have finished my Asimov Foundation challenge. It only took me two years!

Foundation's Triumph picked up right where Foundation and Chaos left off. Hari Seldon isn't yet dead, though he really ought to be at this point. Hari doesn't have any real strategic plot importance other than to bear witness to the actual planning that would be/is revealed later-in-time-but-earlier-in-series-reading-order in Foundation and Earth. Since you are supposed to have read that novel first, it should ...more

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Aug 24, 2012 Brian rated it liked it

When a favourite author writes in a favourite universe, you hope the results will be awesome. Unfortunately it was just "meh". Asimov's Hari Seldon molded the future of the galaxy and mankind as he knew it into his own vision of perfection. Brin's Seldon refuses to do the same. The situations, backgrounds and major players keep setting up to be special and repeatedly fall short.
Don't get me wrong, Brin doesn't slight Asimov's work, he just takes it in a direction that doesn't work for me. Maybe ...more

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Nov 28, 2017 Christopher Page rated it it was ok

It was pretty annoying to see that every time the author referenced who as speaking or what not he had to explain who they were or why they were significant, every single time. I don't recall if it was this way in the in the entire book, but it definitely was in the second half. Pay attention to when he references Sybil, or Joan, the repeated description/details of characters that we are well aware of drove me nuts. ...more

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Apr 23, 2015 Szymon Myalski rated it really liked it

Shelves: polish

This book gathers amazing collection of loosely connected threads from many Asimov's book, stitch them together and makes it all consistent and logical. It is a great achievement. David Brin finally made all Asimov's stories I know into one big and detailed history of over 20 000 years. And explained how difficult, demanding but also despotic was R. Daneel Olivaw's role in it. ...more

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Aug 02, 2015 Rob rated it it was amazing

The best of the Second Foundation Trilogy, picking up a number of the threads - or, as a prequel, putting them in place - that Asimov deployed in the original trilogy and the follow-up books; and, I'd have thought, pretty in line with the way Asimov developed the series after the first trilogy. ...more

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Jan 20, 2013 Roddy Williams rated it liked it · review of another edition

Shelves: science-fiction, posthumous-sequel, robots, galactic-empire, space-elevator, eugenics, human-transcendence, chaos-theory

‘As for me, I am finished.’

With these words, a frail, dying Hari Seldon completes his life’s work. The old man has just recorded messages for the Time Vault of the First Foundation. And psychohistory’s Seldon Plan is unleashed, propelled by the ponderous momentum of destiny.
Younger hands will now take up the task.

But Seldon knows that neither the First nor the Second Foundation will provide ultimate solutions. The Seldon Plan has three possible outcomes. None of them fills him with joy but he ...more

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Feb 03, 2021 Elizabeth R. rated it it was amazing

Wow. Just ... wow. (No exclamation points. One doesn't bounce up and down while digesting such a feast.)

Brin's talent and genius carried the day once again. We admit to our faith having been shaken upon reading some of the crankier reviews as we got started, but we needn't have worried. It's hard to know what to write without spoiling -- not just the plot but some of the philosophy reveals, uncertainties, and more.

Haters gonna hate, but diversity must prevail. <3

A fine and worthy closure, at le ...more

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Mar 20, 2019 Mark Rabideau rated it really liked it

This is an enjoyable conclusion to the 2nd Foundation Trilogy. This 6th novel brings the Foundation "History' to a logical pause while leaving numerous openings for future authors to carry the 'series' further. The Second Foundation Trilogy is an entertaining & worthwhile read albeit not up to the original series standards set by Issac Asimov. ...more

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Sep 04, 2018 Tim rated it liked it

This book tied the ends left loose by the other two, which was nice. The much needed admittance of the Chaos factor was nice as well.

Was this trilogy necessary: No.

Was this trilogy worth reading: For die-hard Asimov fans maybe; for everyone else, no.

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Feb 02, 2021 Sean rated it it was amazing

Shelves: fiction, science-fiction

Brin ties together the atrocious Benford novel and Bear's novel with the Robots and other novels, and basically tries to answer all the remaining questions from previous books. He does a decent job of it. ...more

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Aug 12, 2017 Joshua Stager rated it really liked it

A worthy addition to the Asimov universe, and the best book of the Second Foundation Trilogy

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Sep 26, 2017 Rob Markley rated it it was ok

Shelves: scifi

I was really looking forward to this series given the quality of the authors, but it just didn't work. ...more

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Oct 03, 2014 Thomas rated it liked it

Shelves: science-fiction, sequel, 2014

This review has been hidden because it contains spoilers. To view it, click here. One of the creepiest stories I ever read was The Humanoids by Jack Williamson. In it, alien robots come to Earth to keep humans safe. That's their main motivation. But what starts off as safety turns into tyranny when the robots see cooking, crafting, and driving as being harmful; we could harm ourselves from burning and cutting, or worse, if we got into an accident. Now that I've finished the entire Second Foundation series, I see that these novels (and possibly all of Asimov's series) are equa One of the creepiest stories I ever read was The Humanoids by Jack Williamson. In it, alien robots come to Earth to keep humans safe. That's their main motivation. But what starts off as safety turns into tyranny when the robots see cooking, crafting, and driving as being harmful; we could harm ourselves from burning and cutting, or worse, if we got into an accident. Now that I've finished the entire Second Foundation series, I see that these novels (and possibly all of Asimov's series) are equally horrifying, for the same reasons.

The core theme of the trilogy is one of chaos, or, more specifically, preventing it. The thing is, in the world of Foundation, chaos is synonymous with independence. Hari frets over the Renaissance worlds, planets where ingenuity and creativity thrive, ultimately leading to riots, rebellions, and destruction, and wonders how to fit them into his plan. These worlds are few, but critical, and as the series progresses, it turns out that the reason these worlds have this chaos is because these are the worlds that were not terraformed by robots. As a result, the planets had civilization develop independently of robot machinations, meaning that these planets didn't have a huge satellite orbiting them to suppress independent thought.

To be fair, it's not that the satellites suppress all thoughts, but they do suppress thinking about robots, or the technologies that would create them, or allow for creativity at all, as far as I understand it. But between those satellites and the brain fever that strikes anyone of intelligence around the time of puberty, effectively dumbing them down a bit so they can't reach the true potential of their intelligence, it certainly suggests that the robots aren't averse in experimenting with widespread thought control.

In the afterword to this novel, Brin mentions that he and the other two authors in this trilogy saw that there were seeds planted in Asimov's series that suggested the idea of chaos being the elephant in the room throughout the entire story. I don't know that I agree, but when you look at the main premise of the series and psychohistory -- the idea that one can control a civilization through mathematical theories -- chaos would certainly throw a wrench into those calculations. Anything unpredictable would affect that control, so removing chaos would, in turn, ensure more control in the equations.

The main problem with the theme, for me, is that I don't agree that it's worth giving up independence in order to protect people. There's the saying that one can have freedom or safety, but not both, and the theme of this trilogy reflects that. There's a moment where Brin discusses the time when two robots decided to alter the entire future course of humanity without consulting anyone else, and you can almost detect the idea that this was a bad thing. But the results were that humanity finally left Earth to conquer the stars, and that it was the right thing to do, so the ends justified the means. The fact that this trilogy suggests that the entire course of human history from that point forward was controlled by the robots, though, felt more horrifying than reassuring. Given that Asimov's original stories feel more positive, it's hard to imagine that these novels really fit in with the original series. In fact, this whole trilogy winds up having a very conservative, patriotic angle that leaves me uncomfortable.

I still feel like these three books are all better written than Asimov's books are, but thematically, Asimov's are certainly the better option. I guess how much you like the trilogy will depend on how much you like the original series, too, and (possibly) what your political leanings are. It's just unfortunate that three well-told stories can devolve into a message that's more horrifying than uplifting. ...more

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Dec 12, 2016 Thomas Dachsel rated it really liked it

Shelves: asimov

Having finished all three of the Second Foundation Trilogy volumes, I have to say that the last volume did not leave that good impression on me as other reviewers write. Mr. Brin tries to explain *all* of the Foundation history, including the entirety of the Robots and Empire backstory at once, but this is just too much for one book. Especially the robots and their various factions come across as very convoluted, and I wonder why all of this was really necessary. By including the Gaia and Galaxi ...more

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Jul 01, 2008 Michael rated it really liked it

Recommends it for: fans of the Foundation books; David Brin fans

Shelves: science-fiction, fiction

I spotted this in our local used bookstore as I was looking for new books by David Brin. "He's written a Foundation novel???" Hmmm.... I like Isaac Asimov, and I like David Brin. Let's give 'er a try!

I was not disappointed. Brin's writing was crisp and a pleasure to read. I did not read these three books of the Second Foundation Trilogy in order, and I'm glad I did not. For readers of Asimov's Foundation books, these books fill in some gaps in the story in the years leading up to Hari Seldon's d ...more

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Aug 09, 2011 Jeff Crosby rated it liked it · review of another edition

Shelves: science-fiction, ebook, 2012, ibooks

It has been over a decade since I read the first two volumes of this new Foundation trilogy. I liked Foundation's Fear by Gregory Benford, but I disliked Greg Bear's Foundation and Chaos. So, I never picked up this final volume until now. I'm glad it finally caught my attention. The opening chapters draw together the threads from the first two novels, setting up an interesting premise. The first two thirds of the book are very engaging, but it gets lost as we reveal conspiracy after conspiracy-- ...more

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May 09, 2008 Kip rated it liked it

Got these three (Second Foundation Trilogy) from a friend. Been a long time since I read the Foundation or robot stories from Asimov, so I was eager to jump back into the story.

All three authors did a good job remaining true to the original timelines, major events and characters. That said, you could tell this was sort of filler. Should have expected that, right?

Has motivated me to go back and read some of the robot stories again -- lots of robot activity in all three of these.

* Couldn't finish
* ...more

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Mar 30, 2014 Rachel rated it did not like it

Shelves: fantasy-sci-fi

I had a lot of problems with this book. Instead of building upon the first two books, it's like David Brin said, "Oh my gosh! I have to use everything Asimov has ever written to prove I've read his books!" There were so many story details and lines that were utterly irrelevant. It was really, really poorly done. Thanks to Brin, I think I understand Asimov's Foundation universe less than when I began! A massive disappointment.

On a side note, I was really troubled by his regular use of the phrase, ...more

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Jun 08, 2012 Manuel Barrera added it

It is difficult to write behind somebody else's conceptions of the universe. If anyone could, it might be David Brin, Greg Bear, or Greg Benford. Foundation's Triumph is a case in point of that difficulty. Although I found the story plausible in the Asimov universe, Brin simply could not keep himself to that conception and bleeds his worldview--well done, but ultimately stilted and uninspiring. I am sorry to say because beyond Asimov, Brin is likely one of if not Asimov's successor. I look forwa ...more

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Aug 29, 2012 Garrett rated it it was amazing

I applaud Brin for closing this trilogy in Asimov's universe on a high-note. The other books left me a little disappointed, but this one felt closer to Asimov's tendencies and ideas. However, one of Asimov's failings is the lack of action, and this book also suffered from that a bit - too much time in meditation and talk and not enough action by the humans. Of course, perhaps that is part of the point being made. But I expected more from HAri, even if he is 90 years old ;-) ...more

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About David Brin

David Brin

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David Brin is a scientist, speaker, and world-known author. His novels have been New York Times Bestsellers, winning multiple Hugo, Nebula and other awards. At least a dozen have been translated into more than twenty languages.

Existence, his latest novel, offers an unusual scenario for first contact. His ecological thriller, Earth, foreshadowed global warming, cyberwarfare and near-future trends ...more