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The Reconstruction of Nations: Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus, 1569 - 1999
Timothy Snyder traces the emergence of four rival modern nationalist ideologies from common medieval notions of citizenship. He presents the ideological innovations and ethnic cleansings that abetted the spread of modern nationalism but also examines recent statesmanship that has allowed national interests to be channeled toward peace.
“A work of profound scholarship and considerable importance.”—Timothy Garton Ash, St. Antony’s College, University of Oxford
“Timothy Snyder’s style is a welcome reminder that history writing can be—indeed, ought to be—a literary pursuit.”—Charles King, Times Literary Supplement
“A brilliant and fascinating analysis of the subtleties, complexities, and paradoxes of the evolution of nations in Eastern Europe. It has major implications for all of us who want to understand the processes of state collapse and nation-building in the world.”—Samuel P. Huntington, Harvard Academy for International and Area Studies
“Snyder’s ultimate query in this fresh and stimulating look at the path to nationhood is how the bitter experiences along the way, including the bitterest—ethnic cleansing—are to be overcome.”—Robert Legvold, Foreign Affairs
“A work of profound scholarship and considerable importance.”—Timothy Garton Ash, St. Antony’s College, University of Oxford
“Timothy Snyder’s style is a welcome reminder that history writing can be—indeed, ought to be—a literary pursuit.”—Charles King, Times Literary Supplement
“A brilliant and fascinating analysis of the subtleties, complexities, and paradoxes of the evolution of nations in Eastern Europe. It has major implications for all of us who want to understand the processes of state collapse and nation-building in the world.”—Samuel P. Huntington, Harvard Academy for International and Area Studies
“Snyder’s ultimate query in this fresh and stimulating look at the path to nationhood is how the bitter experiences along the way, including the bitterest—ethnic cleansing—are to be overcome.”—Robert Legvold, Foreign Affairs
367 pages, Paperback
Published July 11, 2004
About the author
Timothy Snyder
62 books5,780 followersTimothy Snyder is Housum Professor of History at Yale University and a permanent fellow at the Institute for Human Sciences. He received his doctorate from the University of Oxford in 1997, where he was a British Marshall Scholar. He has held fellowships in Paris, Vienna, and Warsaw, and an Academy Scholarship at Harvard.
His most recent book is Black Earth: The Holocaust as History and Warning, published in September 2015 by Crown Books. He is author also of Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin (2010), a history of Nazi and Soviet mass killing on the lands between Berlin and Moscow. A New York Times bestseller and a book of the year according to The Atlantic, The Independent, The Financial Times, the Telegraph, and the New Statesman, it has won twelve awards including the Emerson Prize in the Humanities, a Literature Award from the American Academy of Arts and Letters, the Leipzig Award for European Understanding, and the Hannah Arendt Prize in Political Thought.
His other award-winning publications include Nationalism, Marxism, and Modern Central Europe: A Biography of Kazimierz Kelles-Krauz (1998); The Reconstruction of Nations: Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus, 1569-1999 (2003); Sketches from a Secret War: A Polish Artist's Mission to Liberate Soviet Ukraine (2005); The Red Prince: The Secret Lives of A Habsburg Archduke (2008), and Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin (2010).
Snyder helped Tony Judt to compose a thematic history of political ideas and intellectuals in politics, Thinking the Twentieth Century (2012). He is also the co-editor of Stalin and Europe: Terror, War, Domination and Wall Around the West: State Power and Immigration Controls in Europe and North America (2001).
Snyder was the recipient of an inaugural Andrew Carnegie Fellowship in 2015. He is a member of the Committee on Conscience of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum and sits on the advisory council of the Yivo Institute for Jewish Research Research.
He teaches undergraduate and graduate courses in modern East European political history.
His most recent book is Black Earth: The Holocaust as History and Warning, published in September 2015 by Crown Books. He is author also of Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin (2010), a history of Nazi and Soviet mass killing on the lands between Berlin and Moscow. A New York Times bestseller and a book of the year according to The Atlantic, The Independent, The Financial Times, the Telegraph, and the New Statesman, it has won twelve awards including the Emerson Prize in the Humanities, a Literature Award from the American Academy of Arts and Letters, the Leipzig Award for European Understanding, and the Hannah Arendt Prize in Political Thought.
His other award-winning publications include Nationalism, Marxism, and Modern Central Europe: A Biography of Kazimierz Kelles-Krauz (1998); The Reconstruction of Nations: Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus, 1569-1999 (2003); Sketches from a Secret War: A Polish Artist's Mission to Liberate Soviet Ukraine (2005); The Red Prince: The Secret Lives of A Habsburg Archduke (2008), and Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin (2010).
Snyder helped Tony Judt to compose a thematic history of political ideas and intellectuals in politics, Thinking the Twentieth Century (2012). He is also the co-editor of Stalin and Europe: Terror, War, Domination and Wall Around the West: State Power and Immigration Controls in Europe and North America (2001).
Snyder was the recipient of an inaugural Andrew Carnegie Fellowship in 2015. He is a member of the Committee on Conscience of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum and sits on the advisory council of the Yivo Institute for Jewish Research Research.
He teaches undergraduate and graduate courses in modern East European political history.
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February 13, 2024
Masterfully researched and still highly relevant 20 years after publication.
Timothy Snyder provides the reader with a detailed chronological overview of the respective histories of the four states wich (mostly) made up the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania and Belarus, from the founding of the Commonwealth until the beginning of the 21st century. As well as relevant points of view on the region from the Jewish, Russian and German sides.
The book is divided into three parts in which the first concentrates on the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, its historical legacy in Poland, Lithuania and Belarus and the consequences which have arisen over it between the respective countries. The second part concentrates on the relation between Poland and (Western) Ukraine (Galicia and Volhynia) in which the rise of Ukrainian national consciousness plays a central role and the conflict this created with Poland, resulting in catastrophic mutual acts of ethnic cleansing. The third and final part concentrates on the future of the respective countries within Europe and the processes behind reconciliation amongst each other.
Essential reading for everyone interested in trying to understand the current state of Eastern Europe and where the region is heading.
Timothy Snyder provides the reader with a detailed chronological overview of the respective histories of the four states wich (mostly) made up the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania and Belarus, from the founding of the Commonwealth until the beginning of the 21st century. As well as relevant points of view on the region from the Jewish, Russian and German sides.
The book is divided into three parts in which the first concentrates on the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, its historical legacy in Poland, Lithuania and Belarus and the consequences which have arisen over it between the respective countries. The second part concentrates on the relation between Poland and (Western) Ukraine (Galicia and Volhynia) in which the rise of Ukrainian national consciousness plays a central role and the conflict this created with Poland, resulting in catastrophic mutual acts of ethnic cleansing. The third and final part concentrates on the future of the respective countries within Europe and the processes behind reconciliation amongst each other.
Essential reading for everyone interested in trying to understand the current state of Eastern Europe and where the region is heading.
March 4, 2023
State breaking and state building causes unceasing turmoil
This book deals with history very close to me, but I had never thought much about it. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, based on earlier formations, lasted from 1569 to 1795, when the third partition of Poland erased the old Commonwealth from the map forever. It had been the largest state of Europe in its time (if we don’t count Russia as “European”). It covered today’s Poland, Lithuania, Belarus and most of Ukraine. My grandparents, their families, and ancestors lived there, in Belarus and Lithuania. All those who did not emigrate before 1941 were lost. This pain tended to deter me from investigating those places more thoroughly. They were treated like cockroaches. Here in America, I stood up like a man and was a citizen. Finally, I decided to bite the bullet. I’m glad I chose this book because I could not imagine how someone could have done a better job at explaining the complex history of that region.
Snyder asks the questions “When do nations arise?” “What causes ethnic cleansing?” “How can states reconcile?” I am not sure he answers such questions in general, but he supplies careful answers in terms of Eastern Europe. You will find in the history of the region discussion of things like imperial disintegration, unnatural frontiers with no legitimacy, provocative minorities, revanchist claims, fearful elites, memories of previous ethnic cleansings, uneasy new democracies, national myths of eternal conflict, and supposed ancient hatreds. On page 4, the author writes “Every modern nationalism…will ignore palpable early modern traditions in favor of imagined medieval continuities.” That is, that the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was not an ethnic state, but rather built on a common culture led by an elite which was not ethnically-based either. As ethnic nationalism increased in the 19th century, Poles, Lithuanians, Belarussians and Ukrainians began to insist on their differences proven by some mythical “national” experiences of the distant past. Another apt quote would be on page 46. Snyder says “Tradition involves what people actually do now, whereas history narrates what people supposedly once did. Where tradition stops and history begins appears to depend a great deal upon the social origins of national activists.” With this idea, he explains why the Lithuanian national movement succeeded while the Belarussian one did not. There was no idea of a separate Belarus before 1914. It was just a part of the Russian Empire which had been part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. The Lithuanian national leaders came from a different class of people.
Modern nationalism triumphed over the multinational ideal of the past. Massacres, deportations, and endless fighting over territory resulted from that triumph. From the Polish rising of 1863 on, Russia made the same mistakes as it is making in Ukraine in 2022-23. They forced a choice of national labels on Ukraine, Poland, Belarus and Lithuania when these had not been much used till then. They suppressed the desires of Polish and Lithuanian Catholics and declared all people in Ukraine and Belarus to be “Russian”, denying the very existence of a Ukrainian language. Talk about not learning from history!
Snyder’s view of Ukraine is that the Cossacks never found a religious or political compromise with the Commonwealth. They saw the Polish nobility as their oppressors. You can read about this in detail in the novels of Henryk Sienkiewicz. The Uniate Church, separate from both Catholic and Orthodox, was a possible way to sidestep the antagonisms if it could unite the two, but it was never accepted by the Cossacks. The local elites and their Polish culture connected Poland, Lithuania, and Belarus. Ukraine was more a borderland even though the Cossacks understood Polish, and the Kyiv elite often spoke Polish, but they used interpreters to deal with the Russians. “The collapse (of the Commonwealth’s order) stands at the origins of modern Poland, Ukraine, and indeed Russia”. (p.117)
The book is packed full of interesting ideas and reveals a history very little heard of in the West. The turmoil of WW II not only involved the Holocaust, but also a Ukrainian-Polish war within the war, numerous ethnic armies committing murders, and massive population transfers achieved by force. Snyder goes on to talk about the effect of brutality and deportation on nationalism and sense of place. The “built national histories” of postwar political origin cannot encompass previously more eclectic identities. At last, after the war, national identities independent of former Polish elite thought began to emerge. The Communist versions of history tried to erase such broader visions as well—despite “The Internationale”. At last four nations appeared. Poland particularly took an interest in the strengthening of national identity of its neighbors after 1991. The four nations reconstructed their histories once again.
This has to be one of the best books I’ve read in the last year—so well thought out, so well-written and so prescient. I understood for the first time the cultural milieu my grandparents came from. On the next to last page you will find (the book was published 20 years ago)…….. “The Ukrainian state-building project is the keystone of European security in the twenty-first century:” All we can say is “Amen”.
This book deals with history very close to me, but I had never thought much about it. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, based on earlier formations, lasted from 1569 to 1795, when the third partition of Poland erased the old Commonwealth from the map forever. It had been the largest state of Europe in its time (if we don’t count Russia as “European”). It covered today’s Poland, Lithuania, Belarus and most of Ukraine. My grandparents, their families, and ancestors lived there, in Belarus and Lithuania. All those who did not emigrate before 1941 were lost. This pain tended to deter me from investigating those places more thoroughly. They were treated like cockroaches. Here in America, I stood up like a man and was a citizen. Finally, I decided to bite the bullet. I’m glad I chose this book because I could not imagine how someone could have done a better job at explaining the complex history of that region.
Snyder asks the questions “When do nations arise?” “What causes ethnic cleansing?” “How can states reconcile?” I am not sure he answers such questions in general, but he supplies careful answers in terms of Eastern Europe. You will find in the history of the region discussion of things like imperial disintegration, unnatural frontiers with no legitimacy, provocative minorities, revanchist claims, fearful elites, memories of previous ethnic cleansings, uneasy new democracies, national myths of eternal conflict, and supposed ancient hatreds. On page 4, the author writes “Every modern nationalism…will ignore palpable early modern traditions in favor of imagined medieval continuities.” That is, that the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was not an ethnic state, but rather built on a common culture led by an elite which was not ethnically-based either. As ethnic nationalism increased in the 19th century, Poles, Lithuanians, Belarussians and Ukrainians began to insist on their differences proven by some mythical “national” experiences of the distant past. Another apt quote would be on page 46. Snyder says “Tradition involves what people actually do now, whereas history narrates what people supposedly once did. Where tradition stops and history begins appears to depend a great deal upon the social origins of national activists.” With this idea, he explains why the Lithuanian national movement succeeded while the Belarussian one did not. There was no idea of a separate Belarus before 1914. It was just a part of the Russian Empire which had been part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. The Lithuanian national leaders came from a different class of people.
Modern nationalism triumphed over the multinational ideal of the past. Massacres, deportations, and endless fighting over territory resulted from that triumph. From the Polish rising of 1863 on, Russia made the same mistakes as it is making in Ukraine in 2022-23. They forced a choice of national labels on Ukraine, Poland, Belarus and Lithuania when these had not been much used till then. They suppressed the desires of Polish and Lithuanian Catholics and declared all people in Ukraine and Belarus to be “Russian”, denying the very existence of a Ukrainian language. Talk about not learning from history!
Snyder’s view of Ukraine is that the Cossacks never found a religious or political compromise with the Commonwealth. They saw the Polish nobility as their oppressors. You can read about this in detail in the novels of Henryk Sienkiewicz. The Uniate Church, separate from both Catholic and Orthodox, was a possible way to sidestep the antagonisms if it could unite the two, but it was never accepted by the Cossacks. The local elites and their Polish culture connected Poland, Lithuania, and Belarus. Ukraine was more a borderland even though the Cossacks understood Polish, and the Kyiv elite often spoke Polish, but they used interpreters to deal with the Russians. “The collapse (of the Commonwealth’s order) stands at the origins of modern Poland, Ukraine, and indeed Russia”. (p.117)
The book is packed full of interesting ideas and reveals a history very little heard of in the West. The turmoil of WW II not only involved the Holocaust, but also a Ukrainian-Polish war within the war, numerous ethnic armies committing murders, and massive population transfers achieved by force. Snyder goes on to talk about the effect of brutality and deportation on nationalism and sense of place. The “built national histories” of postwar political origin cannot encompass previously more eclectic identities. At last, after the war, national identities independent of former Polish elite thought began to emerge. The Communist versions of history tried to erase such broader visions as well—despite “The Internationale”. At last four nations appeared. Poland particularly took an interest in the strengthening of national identity of its neighbors after 1991. The four nations reconstructed their histories once again.
This has to be one of the best books I’ve read in the last year—so well thought out, so well-written and so prescient. I understood for the first time the cultural milieu my grandparents came from. On the next to last page you will find (the book was published 20 years ago)…….. “The Ukrainian state-building project is the keystone of European security in the twenty-first century:” All we can say is “Amen”.
October 4, 2015
The Maidan saga is still evolving, and it recently took an ugly pivot to the past, as has been documented in Foreign Policy journal and elsewhere. Shortly after the new Ukrainian government ascended to power, President Poroshenko appointed an amateur historian whose nationalist views have been the subject of ridicule by historians of Ukraine worldwide to the post of Director at the Ukrainian Institute of National Remembrance. The historian in question has a record of downplaying and denying the crimes against humanity carried out by the OUN and the UPA during the 1940s; now he controls the largest archive in Ukraine.
THIS is why reading Snyder's work in 2016 gives us pause. THIS is why history is important and valuable and why the purest evaluations of historical events are always unbiased and objective. There is a war in Ukraine going on as I write this review and a broader, nasty information war between the Russian and Ukrainian/western media that is warping our sense of the truth. At the same time, the generation of WWII veterans and survivors is fading away and the events that transpired are less tangible by the day.
What happened in Ukraine during the years of 1942-3? As Snyder writes, and despite what Ukrainian patriots riding the current nationalist wave might tell you, there were "about twelve thousand Ukrainian policemen (who) assisted about fourteen hundred German policemen in the murder of about two hundred thousand Volhynian Jews" in 1942 and that this was the formative experience for Ukrainians who would later join the Ukrainian Insurgent Army. The next year, over 100,000 Poles living in Volyn and Halychyna were murdered by the Insurgent Army.
There is no way to dispute these facts, which have been documented by primary sources and collected by many historians, Snyder included. My point in this review is not to shame Ukraine or Ukrainians. God knows the Soviet government perpetrated crimes against its own citizens and others, including Ukrainians, on a larger scale with similar brutality. The point I want to make is that one cannot bend, twist, or simply erase events like the Holocaust or the Polish-Ukrainian civil war and ethnic cleansing that did in fact happen, no matter what anyone would have you believe. History is too often used to support nationalist movements, and Snyder's work does a service to breaking down nationalist myths, which is perhaps the most valuable contribution contained within this gem of readable, "accessible" history.
In addition to the bitter truth about Ukrainian nationalist movements, you will find a wonderfully woven timeline of places we consider nations today: Lithuania, Belarus, Ukraine and Poland. Until the 20th century, the lines defining where "Poland" ended and "Ukraine" began were much blurrier; people didn't necessarily identify language as a mark of ethnicity until modern nationalism took root. Vilnius, the capital of Lithuania, did not have a majority of Lithuanian speakers until 1945. All four nationalist movements in the book's title have claimed Adam Mickiewicz as a national poet at some point in history. According to Polish opinion polls taken in the late 1980s, Polish people were more fearful of aggression from an independent Ukraine than from any other country in Europe including the Soviet Union/Russia and a united, temporarily recidivist Germany. More fascinating facts are contained within the pages of this book.
This was the first book I've read by Snyder. What an unbelievable introduction to his work.
THIS is why reading Snyder's work in 2016 gives us pause. THIS is why history is important and valuable and why the purest evaluations of historical events are always unbiased and objective. There is a war in Ukraine going on as I write this review and a broader, nasty information war between the Russian and Ukrainian/western media that is warping our sense of the truth. At the same time, the generation of WWII veterans and survivors is fading away and the events that transpired are less tangible by the day.
What happened in Ukraine during the years of 1942-3? As Snyder writes, and despite what Ukrainian patriots riding the current nationalist wave might tell you, there were "about twelve thousand Ukrainian policemen (who) assisted about fourteen hundred German policemen in the murder of about two hundred thousand Volhynian Jews" in 1942 and that this was the formative experience for Ukrainians who would later join the Ukrainian Insurgent Army. The next year, over 100,000 Poles living in Volyn and Halychyna were murdered by the Insurgent Army.
There is no way to dispute these facts, which have been documented by primary sources and collected by many historians, Snyder included. My point in this review is not to shame Ukraine or Ukrainians. God knows the Soviet government perpetrated crimes against its own citizens and others, including Ukrainians, on a larger scale with similar brutality. The point I want to make is that one cannot bend, twist, or simply erase events like the Holocaust or the Polish-Ukrainian civil war and ethnic cleansing that did in fact happen, no matter what anyone would have you believe. History is too often used to support nationalist movements, and Snyder's work does a service to breaking down nationalist myths, which is perhaps the most valuable contribution contained within this gem of readable, "accessible" history.
In addition to the bitter truth about Ukrainian nationalist movements, you will find a wonderfully woven timeline of places we consider nations today: Lithuania, Belarus, Ukraine and Poland. Until the 20th century, the lines defining where "Poland" ended and "Ukraine" began were much blurrier; people didn't necessarily identify language as a mark of ethnicity until modern nationalism took root. Vilnius, the capital of Lithuania, did not have a majority of Lithuanian speakers until 1945. All four nationalist movements in the book's title have claimed Adam Mickiewicz as a national poet at some point in history. According to Polish opinion polls taken in the late 1980s, Polish people were more fearful of aggression from an independent Ukraine than from any other country in Europe including the Soviet Union/Russia and a united, temporarily recidivist Germany. More fascinating facts are contained within the pages of this book.
This was the first book I've read by Snyder. What an unbelievable introduction to his work.
January 21, 2013
This is a riveting history of Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania and Belarus, and how these “nations” fluctuated over historical time in terms of geography, language, culture, ethnicity...
Only after the extreme onslaught of the Second World War did these regions become more homogenous ethnically then they were in the past. Mr. Snyder goes into detail on the cleansing that these countries underwent from Hitler, Stalin and themselves. The German attack in Eastern Europe unleashed the ethnic hatreds that had built up over centuries; which is not to say that animosities never existed prior to 1939, far from it.
Mr. Snyder also describes how Poland’s emancipation from the Soviet Bloc was a positive influence on Eastern Europe, particularly the emerging countries from the former Soviet Union. Poland refused to open up the Pandora’s Box of history, and looking to the future, established good relations with its neighbors – Ukraine, Lithuania, Russia, Belarus and the newly unified Germany. As the author mentions a “Yugoslavia” of ethnic geographical confrontations could have erupted (as in the past) with the contested lands that had at one time belonged to either Poland, Lithuania, the Ukraine and other countries.
I did find this book opaque when reading about history prior to the Twentieth Century (this constitutes about one-fifth of the book). The author presumes a familiarity with historical events that I did not have. Little is mentioned about the Eastern Ukraine and Stalin’s horrible devastation of it during the 1930’s. Ruthenia is mentioned but not explained. Same for the Uniate Church.
But we do get an excellent flow of these countries in the Twentieth Century and their long and troubled road to nationhood. We are given the varying, and often conflicting, historical interpretations of these different nationalities. For a group of people history is never objective.
Only after the extreme onslaught of the Second World War did these regions become more homogenous ethnically then they were in the past. Mr. Snyder goes into detail on the cleansing that these countries underwent from Hitler, Stalin and themselves. The German attack in Eastern Europe unleashed the ethnic hatreds that had built up over centuries; which is not to say that animosities never existed prior to 1939, far from it.
Mr. Snyder also describes how Poland’s emancipation from the Soviet Bloc was a positive influence on Eastern Europe, particularly the emerging countries from the former Soviet Union. Poland refused to open up the Pandora’s Box of history, and looking to the future, established good relations with its neighbors – Ukraine, Lithuania, Russia, Belarus and the newly unified Germany. As the author mentions a “Yugoslavia” of ethnic geographical confrontations could have erupted (as in the past) with the contested lands that had at one time belonged to either Poland, Lithuania, the Ukraine and other countries.
I did find this book opaque when reading about history prior to the Twentieth Century (this constitutes about one-fifth of the book). The author presumes a familiarity with historical events that I did not have. Little is mentioned about the Eastern Ukraine and Stalin’s horrible devastation of it during the 1930’s. Ruthenia is mentioned but not explained. Same for the Uniate Church.
But we do get an excellent flow of these countries in the Twentieth Century and their long and troubled road to nationhood. We are given the varying, and often conflicting, historical interpretations of these different nationalities. For a group of people history is never objective.
December 14, 2020
Snyder gives a fascinating exploration of Eastern Europe's shifting experiments with inter-ethnic relations, varying from grand coalitions of political unity, to ferocious ethnic cleansing, to civil cooperation between basically ethnic states. I was particularly impressed with the constructive maturity displayed by Poland's leaders following the collapse of the Soviet Block system. Their efforts enabled the healing and forgiveness that averted upsurges of ethnic violence as seen in the former Yugoslavia.
December 27, 2020
Definitely a must read for anyone who's interested in history, particularly Eastern European history.
The author explains the origins of Polish, Lithuanian, Belarusian and Ukrainian national identities, how they evolved during the course of events, including the three partitions of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, conflicts that took place during the interwar period and both world wars, as well as during and after the Communist era. As Lithuanian, I found it exciting and valuable that the book challenged many of my own perceptions. Moreover, the content is heavily intertwined with some of the pressing questions in regional diplomatic relations that arise even today (e.g. the dispute over Vilnius) -- that makes it even better.
I found the Lithuanian translation (2008 edition) to be really clumsy; therefore, I highly advise to read it in original language. Nevertheless, the content is invaluable - a must for anyone who's from (or interested in understanding the complexities of) the region.
The author explains the origins of Polish, Lithuanian, Belarusian and Ukrainian national identities, how they evolved during the course of events, including the three partitions of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, conflicts that took place during the interwar period and both world wars, as well as during and after the Communist era. As Lithuanian, I found it exciting and valuable that the book challenged many of my own perceptions. Moreover, the content is heavily intertwined with some of the pressing questions in regional diplomatic relations that arise even today (e.g. the dispute over Vilnius) -- that makes it even better.
I found the Lithuanian translation (2008 edition) to be really clumsy; therefore, I highly advise to read it in original language. Nevertheless, the content is invaluable - a must for anyone who's from (or interested in understanding the complexities of) the region.
August 14, 2016
My "to read" shelves are prioritised; "these can wait" and "these must be read soon". There are books that languish there, on the shelves, if not covered in cobwebs (my wife would never allow that ignominy) then certainly enshrouded in an invisible thick web of time. It is my shame that this book languished on my shelves for so long. It has sat there, in the "these must be read soon", for a number of years. It has sent out signals that "there things here of great worth" but I have constantly glanced, momentarily paused and then moved on to another. Shame on me.
This is a superb book, a work of true scholarship. It explains the roots of so many problems and provides so many answers in a part of the world I love well. It is a work of real significance in the understanding of the history of the former lands of the Rzeszpospolita, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. It clarifies the evolution of political ideas in Belarus, Lithuania, Poland and the Ukraine and explains the history of enmity that developed between these once united "nations". It begins by describing the dominant role of Poland in the relationship, the roles of language and religion, of culture. It exposes the flaws, especially in the Rzeszpospolita's relationship with the Ukraine, which ultimately contributed to the disappearance of this great, "modern" state. It tracks the growth of nationalism and the conflict of interest between those who believed in an ethnic nation state and those who believed in a federation that had its roots in the Commonwealth. We see the rise of suspicion, fear and hatred; the emergence of war and ethnic cleansing in times of chaos, and we see the way the Poles evolved a means of overcoming these stumbling blocks in order to create a successful transition in the movement towards the creation of independent states in this part of Europe.
This is a magnificent book, a great history and a superb commentary. It is so well-written and easy to read; there are very few points at which I had to pause and re-read a part in order to take it in. Timothy Snyder had already attracted my attention in his marvellous work "Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin", now he has been raised to the Pantheon of the greats.
This is a superb book, a work of true scholarship. It explains the roots of so many problems and provides so many answers in a part of the world I love well. It is a work of real significance in the understanding of the history of the former lands of the Rzeszpospolita, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. It clarifies the evolution of political ideas in Belarus, Lithuania, Poland and the Ukraine and explains the history of enmity that developed between these once united "nations". It begins by describing the dominant role of Poland in the relationship, the roles of language and religion, of culture. It exposes the flaws, especially in the Rzeszpospolita's relationship with the Ukraine, which ultimately contributed to the disappearance of this great, "modern" state. It tracks the growth of nationalism and the conflict of interest between those who believed in an ethnic nation state and those who believed in a federation that had its roots in the Commonwealth. We see the rise of suspicion, fear and hatred; the emergence of war and ethnic cleansing in times of chaos, and we see the way the Poles evolved a means of overcoming these stumbling blocks in order to create a successful transition in the movement towards the creation of independent states in this part of Europe.
This is a magnificent book, a great history and a superb commentary. It is so well-written and easy to read; there are very few points at which I had to pause and re-read a part in order to take it in. Timothy Snyder had already attracted my attention in his marvellous work "Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin", now he has been raised to the Pantheon of the greats.
March 13, 2010
Lesson learned from this book: If you were "Ukrainian," "Polish," or "Belorussian," most of the 20th-century sucked for you. Also, trust no one!
January 9, 2013
Існування окремих української, білоруської, польської та литовської націй зараз майже ні в кого не викликає сумніву, окрім деяких імперіалістів та радикальних націоналістів. Але розуміння стосунку чотирьох націй до Речі Посполитої далі є проблематичним. Чи була ця ранньомодерна держава польською чи польсько-литовською, адже в її назві фігурувало Rzeczpospolita Obojga Narodow? А якщо так, то чи вона була імперією щодо українців та білорусів? Хоча, чи можемо ми взагалі говорити про те, що Річ Посполита була національною державою? Книга Тімоті Снайдера "Перетворення націй. Польща, Україна, Литва, Білорусь 1569-1999" (Дух і літера, 2012) є текстом, який пропонує відповіді на ці питання. Книжка була видана на Заході в 2003 р., але до українського читача прийшла лише в 2012 р. І тим не менше, на мою думку, вона краща, аніж бестселер Тімоті Снайдера "Криваві землі" (Грані-Т, 2011).
Продовження рецензії - Як одна нація стала чотирма: виникнення польської, литовської, української та білоруської ідентичностей
Продовження рецензії - Як одна нація стала чотирма: виникнення польської, литовської, української та білоруської ідентичностей
July 24, 2022
Suprantu, kodel šio Snyder’io vertimo taip niekas ir nebeperleido.
Esame pratę skaityti tik mitologizuotą, savo pačių istorijos versiją. O jei mito nerandam - istoriką apšaukiam marginalu.
Šiuo atveju Snyder’iui nereikia įrodynėt autoriteto. Regiono istoriją jis išmano puikiai. Ir arbitruoja taip, kad daugumai net kraujas užverda.
Esame pratę skaityti tik mitologizuotą, savo pačių istorijos versiją. O jei mito nerandam - istoriką apšaukiam marginalu.
Šiuo atveju Snyder’iui nereikia įrodynėt autoriteto. Regiono istoriją jis išmano puikiai. Ir arbitruoja taip, kad daugumai net kraujas užverda.
January 31, 2023
After reading Red Famine I thought it would be good to read about the countries just outside Ukraine and this book is about as comprehensive a history as you can get. Timothy Snyder is an amazing historian and although I have read other reviews about how "accessible" this book is I really had to slow down my reading and look up quite a few parts of history that he referred to that I just wasn't familiar with. It isn't ideal for a book club but more for someone who is a history buff.
That being said I have learned so much by reading this book. I just never knew the massive impact Poland and Ukraine had on each other. Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania & Belarus: begin in the 1500's as a Commonwealth, then in the 20's the Soviets/Poland split up the region, then the 1930's & 40's the German Nazi's partition the region, then Polish/Soviet partitioning the region again only to break down to years of Polish/Ukrainian civil war & mutual ethnic cleansing and then finally and amazingly the mutual agreements for peace and support of the region's nation states. Poland's encouragement for a "European standard" and acceptance of current borders, equal treatment among the neighboring nations and ethical treatment of other national minorities seems to have been the critical component in reducing the fears that have triggered the killings in the past and contributed to the breakup of the Soviet Union.
As much as it is critical that we learn and understand history it is also important that these countries learn to negotiate and not continue to fight old battles of the past. They must look to the future.
"History is not and cannot be the factor which determines one's view of today's reality or which determines how today's reality is formed." Krzysztof Skubiszewski, Former Minister of Foreign Affairs of Poland
One of the things that was really helpful in understanding this book were Timothy Snyder's Yale lectures on The Making of a Modern Ukraine: youtube. https://youtu.be/bJczLlwp-d8
That being said I have learned so much by reading this book. I just never knew the massive impact Poland and Ukraine had on each other. Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania & Belarus: begin in the 1500's as a Commonwealth, then in the 20's the Soviets/Poland split up the region, then the 1930's & 40's the German Nazi's partition the region, then Polish/Soviet partitioning the region again only to break down to years of Polish/Ukrainian civil war & mutual ethnic cleansing and then finally and amazingly the mutual agreements for peace and support of the region's nation states. Poland's encouragement for a "European standard" and acceptance of current borders, equal treatment among the neighboring nations and ethical treatment of other national minorities seems to have been the critical component in reducing the fears that have triggered the killings in the past and contributed to the breakup of the Soviet Union.
As much as it is critical that we learn and understand history it is also important that these countries learn to negotiate and not continue to fight old battles of the past. They must look to the future.
"History is not and cannot be the factor which determines one's view of today's reality or which determines how today's reality is formed." Krzysztof Skubiszewski, Former Minister of Foreign Affairs of Poland
One of the things that was really helpful in understanding this book were Timothy Snyder's Yale lectures on The Making of a Modern Ukraine: youtube. https://youtu.be/bJczLlwp-d8
January 11, 2018
Ця книжка раптово актуалізувалась завдяки сучасному популістичному польсько-українському дискурсу, тому найцікавіше мені було читати саме на розвиток відносин Києва та Варшави. Хоча тут багато всього корисного і про нещасних білорусів, які, на думку Снайдера, так і не сформувалися у національну державу через те, що сучасну територію країни не гризли різні Імперії, як от гризли Литву чи Україну.
Найкраще читається про хитромудру польську політику "двох напрямків", коли офіційні переговори поляки проводили і з радянською Москвою, і з радянським Києвом (ви ж все одно колись станете незалежною державою, ми знаєм, ми читали цей сценарій, так давайте вже домовлятись). Будівництво двосторонніх відносин між державами безвідносно історичного багажу, яке багато хто назвав би антинаціональним, але - вважали поляки і вважає Снайдер - поки ми вирішуємо, хто більше вбив триста років тому, ми ризикуємо залишитись безКриму кордонів. Іронічно-гіркі оптимістичні глави про те, як поляки та українці дипломатично закрили книжку обопільних образ і тепер мають найміцнішу дружбу на всьому східно-європейському просторі. З іншого боку, весело читати перестороги Снайдера про те, що східний кордо ЄС буде закритий для України в осяжному майбутньому, що може стати величезною проблемою для Євросоюзу. Ніхто ніколи не може передбачити майбутнє лише тому, що для нього недосяжний інструментарій майбутнього.
Найкраще читається про хитромудру польську політику "двох напрямків", коли офіційні переговори поляки проводили і з радянською Москвою, і з радянським Києвом (ви ж все одно колись станете незалежною державою, ми знаєм, ми читали цей сценарій, так давайте вже домовлятись). Будівництво двосторонніх відносин між державами безвідносно історичного багажу, яке багато хто назвав би антинаціональним, але - вважали поляки і вважає Снайдер - поки ми вирішуємо, хто більше вбив триста років тому, ми ризикуємо залишитись без
November 8, 2024
This is an earlier work by Timothy Snyder at Yale tracing the roundabout history of Eastern Europe, including Ukraine, from one of the largest medieval principalities in Europe (Poland and Lithuania) through its eventual unraveling and partition to its eventual reemergence today with the dissolution of the USSR and the move toward the Russo-Ukrainian war, as well as the movement of Poland and the Baltic States more towards Europe and NATO. During this extended period, these peoples and cultures were caught in between the struggles and imperial aims of Russia, Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Poland. As a result, they endured two horrific world wars and numerous smaller ones. These places, after all, are what Professor Snyder came to write about in “Bloodlands”.
Any idea a reader might have about the steady and predictable progression of peoples towards national identity should go out the window with this thorough and thoughtful book. The possession of places and the fates of peoples became the ammo for dynastic stratagems and mass murder.
This is a long and carefully documented book. Even so, the reader should be prepared for a story where major towns can be discussed in five or more languages at the same time and it is hard to keep track of what is happening, even with a scorecard.
If you are patient and interested, this is an excellent book.
Any idea a reader might have about the steady and predictable progression of peoples towards national identity should go out the window with this thorough and thoughtful book. The possession of places and the fates of peoples became the ammo for dynastic stratagems and mass murder.
This is a long and carefully documented book. Even so, the reader should be prepared for a story where major towns can be discussed in five or more languages at the same time and it is hard to keep track of what is happening, even with a scorecard.
If you are patient and interested, this is an excellent book.
April 22, 2022
4+
I thought that I knew history of Lithuania and Ukraine, but Snyder proved otherwise. With Ukraine this book provided "only" major corrections to my knowledge, but with Lithuania everything that I knew about its history in 16th-19th century proved to be an illusion, a myth having almost nothing in common with reality. Also, the book is very informative in Poland's eastern policy in 1990-2000 and gives a satisfactory answer to the question why Lithuania and Ukraine managed to create more or less successful independent state, and Belarus, which shared with them a great chunk of history, failed to do it. It would be 5 stars if not for the habit of Snyder to repeat his main talking points over and over and over again and for way too many pages containing his general musings instead of historical facts that can talk for themselves.
I thought that I knew history of Lithuania and Ukraine, but Snyder proved otherwise. With Ukraine this book provided "only" major corrections to my knowledge, but with Lithuania everything that I knew about its history in 16th-19th century proved to be an illusion, a myth having almost nothing in common with reality. Also, the book is very informative in Poland's eastern policy in 1990-2000 and gives a satisfactory answer to the question why Lithuania and Ukraine managed to create more or less successful independent state, and Belarus, which shared with them a great chunk of history, failed to do it. It would be 5 stars if not for the habit of Snyder to repeat his main talking points over and over and over again and for way too many pages containing his general musings instead of historical facts that can talk for themselves.
March 1, 2014
Jesli Europa jest nimfa -- Neapol
Jest nimfy okiem blekitnem
Sercim – cierniami w nodze: Sewatopol,
Azow, Odessa, Petersburg, Mitawa –
Paryz jej glowna
Nakrochmalonym – a zas Rzym … szlaplerzem
Juliusz Slowacki wrote the above in 1836. Norman Davies cites these words in “Heart of Europe” and offers this translation: “If Europe is a nymph, then Naples is the nymph’s bright blue eyes – Warsaw is her heart, whilst Sevastopol, Azov, Odessa, Petersburg, and Mitau are the sharp points of her feet. Paris is her head – London her starched collar – and Rome her boney shoulder.”
Tim Snyder’s book is the best book I’ve read about the “Heart” of Europe in 25 years. He does an absolutely remarkable job of using history, literature, poetry, myth, religion, politics and more to carefully lead us from the Lublin Union of 1569 to the present (which was 2003 when this book was published in 2004). Poland is at the heart of this book and deservedly so since it is the Poles who were able to break and set aside, particularly the years 1939 through 1947, the bonds of their tortured history to lead their nation into the 21st century and “re-union” with Europe. In the process they led the Baltic nations, most especially Lithuania, to do the same.
Timothy Snyder has spent considerable time in Poland, Lithuania, Belarus and the Ukraine. This book reads and flows extremely well and it is clear those years of study and experience in these countries led to the book’s conceptualization. At the outset he lets us understand his approach: "To argue with meta history risks accepting its rules of engagement: and nonsense turned on its head remains nonsense.... Dialectics of myth and meta history sharpen the minds of nationalists, and are thus properly a subject rather than a method of national history."
In other words, he very carefully reconstructs not only what happened but gives us insight – to the extent possible -- into what happened. In the process, he is extremely even handed resisting the opportunities to come down disposed to one side or the other.
He is very strong when he speaks of myth and in particular the efforts of one nation to attempt to adopt someone else’s national poet into another culture as both Lithuania and Belarus did with the great poet Adam Mickiewicz’s Polish literary epic, “Pan Tadeusz.” He comes down hard on Belarus: “In a society still overwhelmingly concerned with status, translating folk culture into a literary language is one thing; translating literary masterpieces into the speech of peasants is quite another. The cultured may be charmed when someone brings a muddy pearl back from the sty, but it does not follow that they like seeing their own pearls thrown before swine.” He is referring to the attempt to translate Mickiewicz’s epic into Belarusian which was barely a codified language in the mid-1800s. There were points where I wondered if Tim Snyder isn't more of a literature professor than history professor, but I reminded myself that literature and art are windows on history. Tim Snyder uses these windows superbly.
One of the saddest parts of the book concerns the very tortured history of Lithuania in World War II and just after. Will let Snyder’s words provide a sample:
"Einsatzkommando 9 of the German Reich arrived in Vilnius on 2 July 1941. Having incorporated thousands of Lithuanian volunteers into its ranks, it began to eliminate Vilnius's Jews. In July and August 1941, hundreds of Jews were abducted by German and Lithuanian Einsatzkommando soldiers. These Jews were murdered by Germans and Lithuanians in the sand pits of the Paneriai (Ponary) forest. Much of the actual killing at Paneriai was carried out by Lithuanian volunteers known as the Special Platoon (Ypatingas Burys). In September 1941 3,700 Jews were rounded up and shot in the sand pits. On 6 September, 38,000 Jews were crammed into two small ghettos; another 6,000 or so were taken to the sand pits and shot. In October and November 1941, in seven actions, more than 12,000 Jews were taken from the two ghettos to the sand pits and shot ….”
It was worse in the Ukraine. I suspect that what happened in the Ukraine was perhaps the most brutal chapter of World War II with the possible exception of the Rape of Nanking.
I’ve already recounted enough of this book to give you the flavor. I would only add that if you want to have anything like an understanding of what is happening in Eastern Europe today, particularly Poland, Lithuania, Belarus and the Ukraine you need to read this book. It is the most even handed treatment of the area that I have read. You will also gain an understanding of why the Poles and Lithuanians have become part of the European Union while Belarus and the Ukraine have not.
I spent three years in Poland from 1990 to 1993. Why Poland was able to avoid being a victim of her history while the Ukraine has not is very well spelled out. As a final note, I am privileged to have worked for a great diplomat and ambassador, Thomas W. Simons. Tom saw Tim Snyder’s book through from the beginning. I can think of one or two people I admire as much as Tom Simons, but no one I admire more. And, finally, I am very much prejudiced toward the Poles. How could I not be? I have a “brother” and a “sister” there. We are not related by blood, but our hearts beat in rhythm.
Jest nimfy okiem blekitnem
Sercim – cierniami w nodze: Sewatopol,
Azow, Odessa, Petersburg, Mitawa –
Paryz jej glowna
Nakrochmalonym – a zas Rzym … szlaplerzem
Juliusz Slowacki wrote the above in 1836. Norman Davies cites these words in “Heart of Europe” and offers this translation: “If Europe is a nymph, then Naples is the nymph’s bright blue eyes – Warsaw is her heart, whilst Sevastopol, Azov, Odessa, Petersburg, and Mitau are the sharp points of her feet. Paris is her head – London her starched collar – and Rome her boney shoulder.”
Tim Snyder’s book is the best book I’ve read about the “Heart” of Europe in 25 years. He does an absolutely remarkable job of using history, literature, poetry, myth, religion, politics and more to carefully lead us from the Lublin Union of 1569 to the present (which was 2003 when this book was published in 2004). Poland is at the heart of this book and deservedly so since it is the Poles who were able to break and set aside, particularly the years 1939 through 1947, the bonds of their tortured history to lead their nation into the 21st century and “re-union” with Europe. In the process they led the Baltic nations, most especially Lithuania, to do the same.
Timothy Snyder has spent considerable time in Poland, Lithuania, Belarus and the Ukraine. This book reads and flows extremely well and it is clear those years of study and experience in these countries led to the book’s conceptualization. At the outset he lets us understand his approach: "To argue with meta history risks accepting its rules of engagement: and nonsense turned on its head remains nonsense.... Dialectics of myth and meta history sharpen the minds of nationalists, and are thus properly a subject rather than a method of national history."
In other words, he very carefully reconstructs not only what happened but gives us insight – to the extent possible -- into what happened. In the process, he is extremely even handed resisting the opportunities to come down disposed to one side or the other.
He is very strong when he speaks of myth and in particular the efforts of one nation to attempt to adopt someone else’s national poet into another culture as both Lithuania and Belarus did with the great poet Adam Mickiewicz’s Polish literary epic, “Pan Tadeusz.” He comes down hard on Belarus: “In a society still overwhelmingly concerned with status, translating folk culture into a literary language is one thing; translating literary masterpieces into the speech of peasants is quite another. The cultured may be charmed when someone brings a muddy pearl back from the sty, but it does not follow that they like seeing their own pearls thrown before swine.” He is referring to the attempt to translate Mickiewicz’s epic into Belarusian which was barely a codified language in the mid-1800s. There were points where I wondered if Tim Snyder isn't more of a literature professor than history professor, but I reminded myself that literature and art are windows on history. Tim Snyder uses these windows superbly.
One of the saddest parts of the book concerns the very tortured history of Lithuania in World War II and just after. Will let Snyder’s words provide a sample:
"Einsatzkommando 9 of the German Reich arrived in Vilnius on 2 July 1941. Having incorporated thousands of Lithuanian volunteers into its ranks, it began to eliminate Vilnius's Jews. In July and August 1941, hundreds of Jews were abducted by German and Lithuanian Einsatzkommando soldiers. These Jews were murdered by Germans and Lithuanians in the sand pits of the Paneriai (Ponary) forest. Much of the actual killing at Paneriai was carried out by Lithuanian volunteers known as the Special Platoon (Ypatingas Burys). In September 1941 3,700 Jews were rounded up and shot in the sand pits. On 6 September, 38,000 Jews were crammed into two small ghettos; another 6,000 or so were taken to the sand pits and shot. In October and November 1941, in seven actions, more than 12,000 Jews were taken from the two ghettos to the sand pits and shot ….”
It was worse in the Ukraine. I suspect that what happened in the Ukraine was perhaps the most brutal chapter of World War II with the possible exception of the Rape of Nanking.
I’ve already recounted enough of this book to give you the flavor. I would only add that if you want to have anything like an understanding of what is happening in Eastern Europe today, particularly Poland, Lithuania, Belarus and the Ukraine you need to read this book. It is the most even handed treatment of the area that I have read. You will also gain an understanding of why the Poles and Lithuanians have become part of the European Union while Belarus and the Ukraine have not.
I spent three years in Poland from 1990 to 1993. Why Poland was able to avoid being a victim of her history while the Ukraine has not is very well spelled out. As a final note, I am privileged to have worked for a great diplomat and ambassador, Thomas W. Simons. Tom saw Tim Snyder’s book through from the beginning. I can think of one or two people I admire as much as Tom Simons, but no one I admire more. And, finally, I am very much prejudiced toward the Poles. How could I not be? I have a “brother” and a “sister” there. We are not related by blood, but our hearts beat in rhythm.
September 19, 2025
არის წიგნები (კერძოდ არამხატვრული), რომლებიც ბევრს გვასწავლის. ამ შემთხვევაში ისტორიის შესახებ. მოგეხსენებათ, ჩვენს სკოლებში მსოფლიო ისტორია არცთუ მოწოდების სიმაღლეზეა. ყოველ შემთხვევაში, ჩემს ბავშვობაში ასე იყო. დარწმუნებული ვარ, ქოცების ხელში, კიდევაც გაუარესებულია მდგომარეობა. აღმოსავლეთ ევროპას საერთოდაც ძალიან ზერელედ გვასწავლიდნენ. მთელი ყურადღება, ძირითადად დასავლეთ ევროპას და ჩრდილოეთ ამერიკას ექცეოდა. ჩემთვის ტერმინები "ლუბლინის უნია" ან "ჟეჩ-პოსპოლიტა" უცხო იყო. დარწმუნებული ვარ, უმრავლესობისთვისაც, ჩვენს ქვეყანაში.
"ერების რეკონსტრუქცია: პოლონეთი, უკრაინა, ლიეტუვა, ბელარუსი 1569-1999" სათაურში მოხსენიებული ოთხი ქვეყნის ისტორიას მიმოიხილავს. იმ დროიდან როცა ეს ეხლა ეროვნული საახელმწუფოები, ოდესღაც ადრემოდერნულ საერთო სახელმწიფოს, ჟეჩ-პოსპოლიტას" წარმოადგენდა, რომელიც კულტურულად პოლონური იყო, ეთნიკურად და რელიგიურად მრავალფეროვანი (კათოლიკეები, მართლმადიდებლები, ბერძნულ-კათოლიკური და უნიატური). მმართველები პოლონური შლიახტიდან ირჩეოდნენ. დედაქალაქი ვილნი იყო (ეხლანდელი ვილნიუსი), რომელიც ლიტვის სამეფოს ისტრორიული დედაქალაქი კი იყო, თუმცა ეთნიკურად პოლონური და ებრაული (1939 წლის მონაცემებით: 2/3 პოლონელი; 1/3 ებრაელი და მაქსიმუმ 2% ლიტვური) ქალაქი იყო, გარშემო კი ბელარუსელი გლეხობა სახლობდა. ადრემოდერნული სახელმწიფოს იდილია მოდერნულმა ნაციონალიზმმა და მსოფლიო ომებმა დაასამარა. ეთნოსები ერთმანეთს დაერივნენ და თითოეულმა მათგანმა ეროვნული სახელმწიფოს დაარსება განიზრახა.
1920 წელს პოლონეთმა კიდევ ერთხელ დაიპყრო ვილნიუსი, რომელიც რეალურად ეთნიკურად ისედაც პოლონური ქალაქი იყო, ისევე როგორც ლვოვი. 1945 წელს, სწორედ სტალინის პირადი გადაწვეტილებით გადასცა ვილნიუსი ლიეტუვას. პოლონელები პოლონეთში გაასახლეს. ებრაელების 90% კი მანადე გერმანელებმა დახოცეს, ლიეტუველთა დახმარებით. სწორედ ამის შემდეგ გახდა ვილნიუსის ლიეტუველებით რეპოპულაცია და ნამდვილ ლიეტუვურ დედაქალაქად იქა. ვფიქრობ სწორედ სტალინის ამ საჩუქარს უნდა ვუმადლოდეთ ლიეტუველების ამოუცნობ სიყვარულს ქართველების მიმართ <3
:( ჩემთვის როგორც უკრაინის დიდი მხარდამჭერისთვის, მტკივნეული იყო იმის კითხვა, თუ როგორ უწყობდნენ უკრაინელი ნაციონალისტები პოლონელებს ეთნოწმენდას, რადგან მხოლოდ ასე წარმედგინათ უკაინული ეროვნული სახელმწიფოს დაარსება. ცხადია არც პოლონელები დარჩენილან ვალში, თუმცა გაცილებით მეტი პოლონელი შეეწინა ეთნოწმენდას, ვიდრე უკრაინელი. ხოლო 80-იანებშიც კი უკრაინელების უფრო ეშინოდათ პოლონელებს, ვიდრე უსების ან გერმანელების.
რუსეთის როლი, ამ ყველაფერში, ისევ და ისევ დამპყრობლური იყო და არის. მან ჯერ იმპერიის პერიოდში დაიპყრო ჟეჩ-პოსპოლიტას მიწები და შემდეგ უკვე როგორც საბჭოთა კავშირმა. აქვე იმასაც ვიგებთ, რომ რუსეთი არანაირად არ არის კიევის რუსის მემკვიდრე. რუსებად სწორედ ის სლავი ხალხი იწოდებოდა, რომლების ჟეჩ-პოსპოლიტას შემადგენლპობაში შედიოდნენ. კიევის რუსი 400 წლით ადრე დაემხო, ვიდე კიევს რუსეთი დაიპყრობდა და მიიერთებდა. შესაბამისად, არც რუსული ეკლესია არ არის კიევის რუსის მემკვიდრე. რუსებმა ტრადიციულად, ცადეს დაპყრობილი ხალხი დაეჯერებინათ, რომ ისინი სინამდვილეში რუსები არიან და დედასამშობლოს დაუბრუნდნენ. :) რუსეთის გულის გასახეთქად, დღეს ეს ოთხივე სახელმწიფო დამოუკიდებელი სახელმწიფოებია. წიგნი 2003 წელს დაიწერა. ალბათ ბევრი საინტერესო დეტალი დაემატებოდა, დღეს რომ დაწერილიყო, რუსეთის უკრაინაში აგრესიული შეჭრის გათვალისწინებით. აქვე ისიცაა აღწერილი როგორ ჩამოყალიბდა დასავლეთ და აღმოსავლეთ უკრაინის რესპუბლიკები, რის ისტორიული ფაქტის ამოშლასაც რუსეთი ლამობს და ზოგ რუსეთუმეს აჯერებს კიდეც, რომ სსრკ-მდე უკრაინა არ არსებობდა.
ყველაზე მეტად მაინც ის მომეწონა, თუ როგორ კარგადაა აღწერილი, ორი იმპერიის განსხვავებული განვითარება, არჩევანი და გზა. ეს იმპერიები პოლონეთი და რუსეთია. პოლონეთი ყველაფერ იმას განასახუიერებს, რადაც ვერ და არ იქცა რუსეთი. არადა პოლონეთს გაცილებით მეტი ისტორიული არგუმენტი და უფლება ჰქონდა გამოკიდებოდა ისტორიული იმპერიულ საზღვრებს. პოლონეთმა დაკარგა ორი ისეთი დიდი, საკვანძო პოლონური ქალაქი, როგორებიც ვილნიუსი და ლვოვი იყო, თუმცა მან არჩია, რომ წინ გაეხედა, ევროპული და ცივილური მომავლისკენ. მან თავის ყოფილ ისტორიულ მიწებს არა თუ შეუშალა დამოუკიდებლობის მოპოვებაში, არამედ ხელსაც კი უწყობდა და ქომაგობდა. პოლონეთმა რყსეთთან ომში, უკრაინელებს იარაღი გადასცა, სწორედ იმ უკრაინელებს, რომლებმაც 80 წლის წინ ეთნოწმენდა მოუწვეს. ეჭვი მეპარება, საქაართველოდ იგივე გაეკეთებინა. ჩვენ არ ვართ ასეთი პოლიტიკური მომწიფებულები.
ვფიქრობ პოლონეთის და რუსეთის ასეთი პოლიტიკური განსხვავებულობა, მათ განვითარების სხვადასხვა დონითა და კულტურით იხსნება. რუსეთი, სსრკს, რუსეთის იმპერიისა და ოქროს ურდოს სამართალმემკვიდრეა. პეტრე პირველამდე ჩამორჩენილი კულტურის ქვეყნად რჩებოდა და მერეც ეკონომიკურად ჩამორჩენილ აგრალულ ქვეყნად დარჩა. პოლონეთის კულტურა ყველაზე წინწასული და განვითარებული იყო სლავურ ხალხებს შორის. სწორედ ამიტომ დომინირებდა ამდენი საუკუნის განმავლობაში და შექმნა იმპერია, რომელიც კულტურით იზიდავდა ხალხს და სწორედ კულტურულად დომინირებდა და არა ჩექმით - რუსეთივით. სსრკ-ს დროს ალბათ ერთადერთი რესპუბლიკა იყო, რომელსაც ძლიერი ოპოზიცია ყავდა და არა დისიდენტები. ეს იმას ნიშნავს, რომ საბჭპთა პოლონეთი განსხვავებული აზრის მქონეებს არ დევნიდა და არ აციმბირებდა. სწორედ ესაა პოლიტიკური მომწიფებულობის და შეგნების ნიშანი. ერთი-ორად მომემატა პატივისცემა პოლონელების მიმართ, ამ წიგნის წაკითხვის შემდეგ.
პ.ს.: ავტორზეც მინდა ვთქვა ორიოდე სიტყვა. მაინტერესებდა ეხლანდელი ომის მისეული შეფასება. გამეხარდა, რომ უკრაინის მხარდამჭერი აღმოჩნდა.
"ერების რეკონსტრუქცია: პოლონეთი, უკრაინა, ლიეტუვა, ბელარუსი 1569-1999" სათაურში მოხსენიებული ოთხი ქვეყნის ისტორიას მიმოიხილავს. იმ დროიდან როცა ეს ეხლა ეროვნული საახელმწუფოები, ოდესღაც ადრემოდერნულ საერთო სახელმწიფოს, ჟეჩ-პოსპოლიტას" წარმოადგენდა, რომელიც კულტურულად პოლონური იყო, ეთნიკურად და რელიგიურად მრავალფეროვანი (კათოლიკეები, მართლმადიდებლები, ბერძნულ-კათოლიკური და უნიატური). მმართველები პოლონური შლიახტიდან ირჩეოდნენ. დედაქალაქი ვილნი იყო (ეხლანდელი ვილნიუსი), რომელიც ლიტვის სამეფოს ისტრორიული დედაქალაქი კი იყო, თუმცა ეთნიკურად პოლონური და ებრაული (1939 წლის მონაცემებით: 2/3 პოლონელი; 1/3 ებრაელი და მაქსიმუმ 2% ლიტვური) ქალაქი იყო, გარშემო კი ბელარუსელი გლეხობა სახლობდა. ადრემოდერნული სახელმწიფოს იდილია მოდერნულმა ნაციონალიზმმა და მსოფლიო ომებმა დაასამარა. ეთნოსები ერთმანეთს დაერივნენ და თითოეულმა მათგანმა ეროვნული სახელმწიფოს დაარსება განიზრახა.
1920 წელს პოლონეთმა კიდევ ერთხელ დაიპყრო ვილნიუსი, რომელიც რეალურად ეთნიკურად ისედაც პოლონური ქალაქი იყო, ისევე როგორც ლვოვი. 1945 წელს, სწორედ სტალინის პირადი გადაწვეტილებით გადასცა ვილნიუსი ლიეტუვას. პოლონელები პოლონეთში გაასახლეს. ებრაელების 90% კი მანადე გერმანელებმა დახოცეს, ლიეტუველთა დახმარებით. სწორედ ამის შემდეგ გახდა ვილნიუსის ლიეტუველებით რეპოპულაცია და ნამდვილ ლიეტუვურ დედაქალაქად იქა. ვფიქრობ სწორედ სტალინის ამ საჩუქარს უნდა ვუმადლოდეთ ლიეტუველების ამოუცნობ სიყვარულს ქართველების მიმართ <3
:( ჩემთვის როგორც უკრაინის დიდი მხარდამჭერისთვის, მტკივნეული იყო იმის კითხვა, თუ როგორ უწყობდნენ უკრაინელი ნაციონალისტები პოლონელებს ეთნოწმენდას, რადგან მხოლოდ ასე წარმედგინათ უკაინული ეროვნული სახელმწიფოს დაარსება. ცხადია არც პოლონელები დარჩენილან ვალში, თუმცა გაცილებით მეტი პოლონელი შეეწინა ეთნოწმენდას, ვიდრე უკრაინელი. ხოლო 80-იანებშიც კი უკრაინელების უფრო ეშინოდათ პოლონელებს, ვიდრე უსების ან გერმანელების.
რუსეთის როლი, ამ ყველაფერში, ისევ და ისევ დამპყრობლური იყო და არის. მან ჯერ იმპერიის პერიოდში დაიპყრო ჟეჩ-პოსპოლიტას მიწები და შემდეგ უკვე როგორც საბჭოთა კავშირმა. აქვე იმასაც ვიგებთ, რომ რუსეთი არანაირად არ არის კიევის რუსის მემკვიდრე. რუსებად სწორედ ის სლავი ხალხი იწოდებოდა, რომლების ჟეჩ-პოსპოლიტას შემადგენლპობაში შედიოდნენ. კიევის რუსი 400 წლით ადრე დაემხო, ვიდე კიევს რუსეთი დაიპყრობდა და მიიერთებდა. შესაბამისად, არც რუსული ეკლესია არ არის კიევის რუსის მემკვიდრე. რუსებმა ტრადიციულად, ცადეს დაპყრობილი ხალხი დაეჯერებინათ, რომ ისინი სინამდვილეში რუსები არიან და დედასამშობლოს დაუბრუნდნენ. :) რუსეთის გულის გასახეთქად, დღეს ეს ოთხივე სახელმწიფო დამოუკიდებელი სახელმწიფოებია. წიგნი 2003 წელს დაიწერა. ალბათ ბევრი საინტერესო დეტალი დაემატებოდა, დღეს რომ დაწერილიყო, რუსეთის უკრაინაში აგრესიული შეჭრის გათვალისწინებით. აქვე ისიცაა აღწერილი როგორ ჩამოყალიბდა დასავლეთ და აღმოსავლეთ უკრაინის რესპუბლიკები, რის ისტორიული ფაქტის ამოშლასაც რუსეთი ლამობს და ზოგ რუსეთუმეს აჯერებს კიდეც, რომ სსრკ-მდე უკრაინა არ არსებობდა.
ყველაზე მეტად მაინც ის მომეწონა, თუ როგორ კარგადაა აღწერილი, ორი იმპერიის განსხვავებული განვითარება, არჩევანი და გზა. ეს იმპერიები პოლონეთი და რუსეთია. პოლონეთი ყველაფერ იმას განასახუიერებს, რადაც ვერ და არ იქცა რუსეთი. არადა პოლონეთს გაცილებით მეტი ისტორიული არგუმენტი და უფლება ჰქონდა გამოკიდებოდა ისტორიული იმპერიულ საზღვრებს. პოლონეთმა დაკარგა ორი ისეთი დიდი, საკვანძო პოლონური ქალაქი, როგორებიც ვილნიუსი და ლვოვი იყო, თუმცა მან არჩია, რომ წინ გაეხედა, ევროპული და ცივილური მომავლისკენ. მან თავის ყოფილ ისტორიულ მიწებს არა თუ შეუშალა დამოუკიდებლობის მოპოვებაში, არამედ ხელსაც კი უწყობდა და ქომაგობდა. პოლონეთმა რყსეთთან ომში, უკრაინელებს იარაღი გადასცა, სწორედ იმ უკრაინელებს, რომლებმაც 80 წლის წინ ეთნოწმენდა მოუწვეს. ეჭვი მეპარება, საქაართველოდ იგივე გაეკეთებინა. ჩვენ არ ვართ ასეთი პოლიტიკური მომწიფებულები.
ვფიქრობ პოლონეთის და რუსეთის ასეთი პოლიტიკური განსხვავებულობა, მათ განვითარების სხვადასხვა დონითა და კულტურით იხსნება. რუსეთი, სსრკს, რუსეთის იმპერიისა და ოქროს ურდოს სამართალმემკვიდრეა. პეტრე პირველამდე ჩამორჩენილი კულტურის ქვეყნად რჩებოდა და მერეც ეკონომიკურად ჩამორჩენილ აგრალულ ქვეყნად დარჩა. პოლონეთის კულტურა ყველაზე წინწასული და განვითარებული იყო სლავურ ხალხებს შორის. სწორედ ამიტომ დომინირებდა ამდენი საუკუნის განმავლობაში და შექმნა იმპერია, რომელიც კულტურით იზიდავდა ხალხს და სწორედ კულტურულად დომინირებდა და არა ჩექმით - რუსეთივით. სსრკ-ს დროს ალბათ ერთადერთი რესპუბლიკა იყო, რომელსაც ძლიერი ოპოზიცია ყავდა და არა დისიდენტები. ეს იმას ნიშნავს, რომ საბჭპთა პოლონეთი განსხვავებული აზრის მქონეებს არ დევნიდა და არ აციმბირებდა. სწორედ ესაა პოლიტიკური მომწიფებულობის და შეგნების ნიშანი. ერთი-ორად მომემატა პატივისცემა პოლონელების მიმართ, ამ წიგნის წაკითხვის შემდეგ.
პ.ს.: ავტორზეც მინდა ვთქვა ორიოდე სიტყვა. მაინტერესებდა ეხლანდელი ომის მისეული შეფასება. გამეხარდა, რომ უკრაინის მხარდამჭერი აღმოჩნდა.
July 24, 2011
The nation, as a thing, has become such a taken for granted of contemporary culture and politics - in its various forms of the nation-state, of the nation as ethnic group, of the nation as self-determining - that it is sometimes difficult to remember that it is the product of historical, social, political and cultural choices, changes and developments. There are few places on the 'Old World' where this is as obviously the case as east and central Europe, that area fought over, claimed and traversed by the Habsburgs, the Romanovs, and the various groups and dynasties that became modern Germany, and this book healthy remainder that we can't really get a grasp on European history without engaging with east-central Europe: a top quality exploration of the difficult thing that was the Polish-Lithuanian empire.
The Polish-Lithuanian empire is one of Europe's lost states - a sprawling multi-ethnic confederation extending from Estonia in the north almost to the Black Sea in the south, from just east of modern Berlin in the west to half way between Minsk & Moscow in the east: it was a huge, powerful social and political force during the 16th and 17th centuries, the history of which has profoundly shaped east European politics ever since. Snyder's history, however, is not one of the Empire, its growth and collapse but in many ways of what happened next, of the demise of the Empire and the emergence of modern nations - Lithuania, Belarus, Ukraine & Poland: Latvia and Estonia barely rate a mention. But then the powerful parts of the tale lie in the complex area that is the Lithuanian, Polish, Belrussian and Ukranian border areas, which Snyder reveals by exploring in detail the area once known as Volhynia, and area of Germanic and Slavic language groups, of Catholic, Jewish, Orthodox and other religious meeting and tension, and an area of continuing cross border cultural exchange that challenges the 'uniformity' of both Polishness and Belrussianess.
My principal concern is not with this Volhynian focus - it is an excellent way to explore the topic - but with Snyder's inability (depressingly common in post-Fukuyama studies) to distinguish the causes and effects of changes and politics during the Soviet and Nazi eras in places such as Volhynia with the effect that he comes close to equating Nazi era genocide with post-war Soviet era policies. I am not trying to deny the effects of mass post-war population transmigrations, of seeing them as actions that developed into what we now call 'ethnic cleansing' - an awful term, but they were not anywhere near genocide and their respective totalitarianisms were nt in any way the same thing.
This weakness in the book (and some of Snyder's other work) is disappointing, because the book is in most other respects and theoretically and empirically rich exploration of an important (not only because forgotten) aspect of European history. It is, as far as I am concerned, vital for scholars of nations and nationalism - but be careful of the failures to adequately disaggregate the political forms of the mid 20th century.
The Polish-Lithuanian empire is one of Europe's lost states - a sprawling multi-ethnic confederation extending from Estonia in the north almost to the Black Sea in the south, from just east of modern Berlin in the west to half way between Minsk & Moscow in the east: it was a huge, powerful social and political force during the 16th and 17th centuries, the history of which has profoundly shaped east European politics ever since. Snyder's history, however, is not one of the Empire, its growth and collapse but in many ways of what happened next, of the demise of the Empire and the emergence of modern nations - Lithuania, Belarus, Ukraine & Poland: Latvia and Estonia barely rate a mention. But then the powerful parts of the tale lie in the complex area that is the Lithuanian, Polish, Belrussian and Ukranian border areas, which Snyder reveals by exploring in detail the area once known as Volhynia, and area of Germanic and Slavic language groups, of Catholic, Jewish, Orthodox and other religious meeting and tension, and an area of continuing cross border cultural exchange that challenges the 'uniformity' of both Polishness and Belrussianess.
My principal concern is not with this Volhynian focus - it is an excellent way to explore the topic - but with Snyder's inability (depressingly common in post-Fukuyama studies) to distinguish the causes and effects of changes and politics during the Soviet and Nazi eras in places such as Volhynia with the effect that he comes close to equating Nazi era genocide with post-war Soviet era policies. I am not trying to deny the effects of mass post-war population transmigrations, of seeing them as actions that developed into what we now call 'ethnic cleansing' - an awful term, but they were not anywhere near genocide and their respective totalitarianisms were nt in any way the same thing.
This weakness in the book (and some of Snyder's other work) is disappointing, because the book is in most other respects and theoretically and empirically rich exploration of an important (not only because forgotten) aspect of European history. It is, as far as I am concerned, vital for scholars of nations and nationalism - but be careful of the failures to adequately disaggregate the political forms of the mid 20th century.
December 24, 2024
Spectacular
June 29, 2026
Планував читати все літо, але справився за кілька тижнів. Настільки цікава книга. Проте складна, тож за 30 годин її прочитав. Усього в книзі три частини, а найбільше сподобалась Ч1 про Литву, Вільнюс та Міцкевича. Ч2 про наші чистки очікувано розчарувала, бо є міфи та мало посилань, але вона корисна, щоб знати, які думки мають вестерни щодо нашої історії.
Приклади того, що я дізнався з книги.
Литовці — найбільш lucky nation. Ледь не з 0 з мінімальниим втратами збудували націю, посилаючись на Велике Князівство Литовське (ВКЛ). В цій історії центральне місце грає місто Вільнюс, який до світових війн був переважно єврейським й польським. Це якийсь аналог Єрусалиму на півночі, бо нього претендували і литовці, і поляки, і білоруси.
Білоруси — найменш lucky nation. Як і ми, вони є "селянською нацією", бо більшість мешкало в селах і, як не дивно, складало більшість населення територій ВКЛ, особливо біля Вільнюса. Снайдер пише: «Білоруська поразка стала результатом соціальних і політичних випадковостей». Після книги мені їх стало дуже шкода.
Поляки є різними. З книги я дізнався, що в польській історії популярні 2 конфліктні ідеї: модерна націоналістична — Польща для поляків — та ранньомодерна федералістська, багатонаціональна, пов'язана з спадком Речі, отже і ВКЛ. При цьому поляки майже завжди були об'єднаними.
Центральним персонажем тут є Адам Міцкевич. Він щось типу Шевченка, але за відновлення традицій Речі, де ВКЛ з Вільнюсом є важливим центром багатьох народів. Його ідеї інтерпретували по-різному й помилково (литовці). Він є польським литовцем, що народився поміж білорусів. Білоруси, до речі, не використали його, як його використовували поляки й литовці, хоча вони мають на нього не менше прав в модерно-націоналістичному сенсі. Снайдер в такому стилі часто звертається до іронії. І коли згадував Митрополита Шептицького, який мав польське походження. Історія Гоголя після цього насправді видається не такою і заплутаною й суперечливою.
Україна згадується в основному в етнічних чистках. Це мене дуже дивує, бо якимсь чином люди «селянської нації», які не можуть між собою домовитись, раптово перетворюються на машин для вбивств й діють неймовірно злагоджено, наче завжди так робили. Між ОУН і УПА наче стоїть «=». Вони дуже злагоджено працюють й обидві (!) керуються ідеологією про створення етнічної держави. А ефективно вбивають поляків тому, що вміло вбивали євреїв до цього, коли були поліцейськими на службі в німців. Усі упівці — зло. Посилання в основному на польських та російських істориків, а також на допити НКВС, яким важко довіряти. Така інформація сумнівна й застаріла, особливо з точки зору нашої версії та пам'яті про трагедію, але корисна, адже гарно відображає погляди на нас, що сидять в головах вестернів десятки років. Щоб дізнатися погляди більшості поляків, треба виключити їхні етнічні чистки в наш бік й сконцентруватися лише на числі загиблих поляків.
Я б сказав, що книга має пропольський погляд. Снайдеру наче подобаються ідеї Речі про багатонаціональність. Саме тому в якості примирення народів він наводить приклад Польщі 1989-1993, коли вона була лідером Східної Європи й завдяки програмам «Культури» та «Солідарності» розглядала сусідні нації як собі рівних, що зараз навіть виглядає фантастичним (над Україною вони наче досі як «старший брат»). Важливо відмітити, що це дослідження — все-таки погляд однієї людини, яка має свій світогляд та не належить до жодної з цих націй. Це її «інтерпретація», як сказав мені один литовець. Однак часто буває корисним дізнатися думку зі сторони, адже ми обрали жити в світі націй й тому зобов'язані будувати нашу історію на певних міфах, як би дивним це не звучало. Ми ведемо історію від Русі, Литовці — від ВКЛ, Польща — від держави П'ястів, хоча багато поляків дотримувалося думки, що варто все-таки вести її з Речі.
Приклади того, що я дізнався з книги.
Литовці — найбільш lucky nation. Ледь не з 0 з мінімальниим втратами збудували націю, посилаючись на Велике Князівство Литовське (ВКЛ). В цій історії центральне місце грає місто Вільнюс, який до світових війн був переважно єврейським й польським. Це якийсь аналог Єрусалиму на півночі, бо нього претендували і литовці, і поляки, і білоруси.
Білоруси — найменш lucky nation. Як і ми, вони є "селянською нацією", бо більшість мешкало в селах і, як не дивно, складало більшість населення територій ВКЛ, особливо біля Вільнюса. Снайдер пише: «Білоруська поразка стала результатом соціальних і політичних випадковостей». Після книги мені їх стало дуже шкода.
Поляки є різними. З книги я дізнався, що в польській історії популярні 2 конфліктні ідеї: модерна націоналістична — Польща для поляків — та ранньомодерна федералістська, багатонаціональна, пов'язана з спадком Речі, отже і ВКЛ. При цьому поляки майже завжди були об'єднаними.
Центральним персонажем тут є Адам Міцкевич. Він щось типу Шевченка, але за відновлення традицій Речі, де ВКЛ з Вільнюсом є важливим центром багатьох народів. Його ідеї інтерпретували по-різному й помилково (литовці). Він є польським литовцем, що народився поміж білорусів. Білоруси, до речі, не використали його, як його використовували поляки й литовці, хоча вони мають на нього не менше прав в модерно-націоналістичному сенсі. Снайдер в такому стилі часто звертається до іронії. І коли згадував Митрополита Шептицького, який мав польське походження. Історія Гоголя після цього насправді видається не такою і заплутаною й суперечливою.
Україна згадується в основному в етнічних чистках. Це мене дуже дивує, бо якимсь чином люди «селянської нації», які не можуть між собою домовитись, раптово перетворюються на машин для вбивств й діють неймовірно злагоджено, наче завжди так робили. Між ОУН і УПА наче стоїть «=». Вони дуже злагоджено працюють й обидві (!) керуються ідеологією про створення етнічної держави. А ефективно вбивають поляків тому, що вміло вбивали євреїв до цього, коли були поліцейськими на службі в німців. Усі упівці — зло. Посилання в основному на польських та російських істориків, а також на допити НКВС, яким важко довіряти. Така інформація сумнівна й застаріла, особливо з точки зору нашої версії та пам'яті про трагедію, але корисна, адже гарно відображає погляди на нас, що сидять в головах вестернів десятки років. Щоб дізнатися погляди більшості поляків, треба виключити їхні етнічні чистки в наш бік й сконцентруватися лише на числі загиблих поляків.
Я б сказав, що книга має пропольський погляд. Снайдеру наче подобаються ідеї Речі про багатонаціональність. Саме тому в якості примирення народів він наводить приклад Польщі 1989-1993, коли вона була лідером Східної Європи й завдяки програмам «Культури» та «Солідарності» розглядала сусідні нації як собі рівних, що зараз навіть виглядає фантастичним (над Україною вони наче досі як «старший брат»). Важливо відмітити, що це дослідження — все-таки погляд однієї людини, яка має свій світогляд та не належить до жодної з цих націй. Це її «інтерпретація», як сказав мені один литовець. Однак часто буває корисним дізнатися думку зі сторони, адже ми обрали жити в світі націй й тому зобов'язані будувати нашу історію на певних міфах, як би дивним це не звучало. Ми ведемо історію від Русі, Литовці — від ВКЛ, Польща — від держави П'ястів, хоча багато поляків дотримувалося думки, що варто все-таки вести її з Речі.
July 13, 2024
Якщо ви цікавитесь історією чи міжнародними відносинами, дуже раджу. Але для цієї книги треба мати гарну базу з історії України.
Снайдер бере дуже цікаво тему Річ Посполита та її наслідки. У нас я подібних праць не зустрічав (можливо вони є).
Корисно прочитати тим, хто мріє про "відродження" міжморського союзу. Тімоті каже ніт.
З одного боку, я розумію чому її переклали і видали в нас. Тут багато про важливість польсько-українського порозуміння, а його від часів пісівської влади майже немає.
З іншого, все ж Снайдер подає все більше з польської точки зору (і не тільки щодо України).
Доречі послідовність країн у назві книги не випадкова. Саме так Снайдер їх ранжує.
Цікаво що Снайдер визнає, що країни сусіди можуть мати прямо протилежні національні історії, але це не повинно заважати міждержавним стосункам.
Залиште історію історикам.
Ні полякам, ні нам це поки не вдається.
Цікаво було про Вільно/Вільнюс, бо мені це перегукувалось з Києвом.
Багато про євроінтеграцію Польщі (бо книга написана ДО вступу Польщі до ЄС). І в дечому книга виглядала такою собі допомогою аргументом для прийому нових членів. Думаю сьогодні він би скоригував свої прогнози щодо вступу України (бо він це бачив не раніше 2040).
Ну і про Білорусь. Снайдер не бачить у найближчі десятиліття модерної білоруської нації і білоруського націоналістичного проєкту.
Снайдер бере дуже цікаво тему Річ Посполита та її наслідки. У нас я подібних праць не зустрічав (можливо вони є).
Корисно прочитати тим, хто мріє про "відродження" міжморського союзу. Тімоті каже ніт.
З одного боку, я розумію чому її переклали і видали в нас. Тут багато про важливість польсько-українського порозуміння, а його від часів пісівської влади майже немає.
З іншого, все ж Снайдер подає все більше з польської точки зору (і не тільки щодо України).
Доречі послідовність країн у назві книги не випадкова. Саме так Снайдер їх ранжує.
Цікаво що Снайдер визнає, що країни сусіди можуть мати прямо протилежні національні історії, але це не повинно заважати міждержавним стосункам.
Залиште історію історикам.
Ні полякам, ні нам це поки не вдається.
Цікаво було про Вільно/Вільнюс, бо мені це перегукувалось з Києвом.
Багато про євроінтеграцію Польщі (бо книга написана ДО вступу Польщі до ЄС). І в дечому книга виглядала такою собі допомогою аргументом для прийому нових членів. Думаю сьогодні він би скоригував свої прогнози щодо вступу України (бо він це бачив не раніше 2040).
Ну і про Білорусь. Снайдер не бачить у найближчі десятиліття модерної білоруської нації і білоруського націоналістичного проєкту.
October 13, 2016
Тімоті Снайдер для мене є абсолютним зразком західного наукового підходу та академічного письма. Він будує свої аргументи довго, розгорнуто та цікаво. В решті-решт всі шматки сходяться.
Опис складного часу для Галичини 1939-1945 рр, коли вона пережила 3 окупації та тисячі-тисячі насильницьких смертей, повністю змінив моє певне ідеалістичне уявлення про українську сторону в конфлікті. Книга знищила багато моїх чисто галичанських псевдо-патріотичних стереотипів, які зв"язували мої скромні знання своєї історії.
Приємним бонусом, стало усвідомлення, що я прожив більшість свого життя (в місті Червонограді на Львівщині, де я народився та виріс) у квартирі з вікнами, через які було видно післявоєнний кордон (1944 року) між СРСР та ПНР - річку Західний Буг, яка в ті часи очевидно особливо охоронялася. Взагалі книга дала багато усвідомлень, тому всім рекомендую.
Опис складного часу для Галичини 1939-1945 рр, коли вона пережила 3 окупації та тисячі-тисячі насильницьких смертей, повністю змінив моє певне ідеалістичне уявлення про українську сторону в конфлікті. Книга знищила багато моїх чисто галичанських псевдо-патріотичних стереотипів, які зв"язували мої скромні знання своєї історії.
Приємним бонусом, стало усвідомлення, що я прожив більшість свого життя (в місті Червонограді на Львівщині, де я народився та виріс) у квартирі з вікнами, через які було видно післявоєнний кордон (1944 року) між СРСР та ПНР - річку Західний Буг, яка в ті часи очевидно особливо охоронялася. Взагалі книга дала багато усвідомлень, тому всім рекомендую.
May 20, 2025
Skvělá studie soužití národů na severovýchod od naší kotliny. Velmi dobře slouží jako podkresba k současné situaci. Kontext, který kniha dodá, je užitečný k pochopení toho, co se na Ukrajině děje. A nejedná se rozhodně o nějaké suchopárné čtení, které by bylo nutno přelouskat. Čte se skoro jako detektivka. Rozhodně publikaci doporučuji když ne do knihovničky, tak alespoň k přečtení.
July 22, 2025
A thorough body of research on former Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth region that effectively dispels most of nationalistic myths still repeated in most contemporary classrooms. Snyder makes clear distinction between a nation state, nationality, different ethic groups, thus painting a clear and colorful picture of the land and people with a rich and otherwise complicated history.
August 15, 2010
An excellent book. Insightful, subtle, clear. I learned an enormous amount about the history and politics of Eastern Europe as well as the evolution of nationalism and state formation. I read it slowly and got much out of it. The proofreader did not.
March 3, 2022
Very important to read if you want to know why Putin's claims are complete and utter hogwash. It was written in 2003, so there are now some darkly amusing assumptions, but it is an excellent grounding on the topic. Could do for an update.
July 4, 2019
Labai patiko. Įdomus požiūris į mūsu istorija iš šalies. Reabilitavo požiūrį į dabartinę lenku politika, patikėjau, kad šiuo metu nelips į kitas teritorijas.
February 11, 2022
4,75 - it's not that easy to read sometimes.
July 13, 2022
Книга відноситься до тих, що змінюють світогляд. Я багато дізнався нового про історію України, Польщі, Литви та Білорусії, такого, що не розповідають у школі.
October 3, 2022
Title is misleading. This focuses solely on Poland and how Poland bullied and controlled the nations around it.
October 13, 2024
Екскурс в історію країн Балтії та Східної Європи. Особливо запамʼятались перепитії щодо Вільнюса та польсько-українські чистки.
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