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North and South

Elizabeth Gaskell,

Angus Easson (Editor),

Sally Shuttleworth (Introduction)

4.14 · Rating details · 139,444 ratings · 7,206 reviews

"She tried to settle that most difficult problem for women, how much was to be utterly merged in obedience to authority, and how much might be set apart for freedom in working."

North and South is a novel about rebellion. Moving from the industrial riots of discontented millworkers through to the unsought passions of a middle-class woman, and from religious crises of consci ...more

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Paperback, Oxford World's Classics, 452 pages

Published October 15th 2008 by Oxford University Press (first published January 1855)

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Dec 01, 2013 Barry Pierce rated it really liked it · review of another edition

Shelves: read-in-2014, 19th-century

It's Pride and Prejudice for Socialists.

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Apr 03, 2012 Blacky *Romance Addict* rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

Shelves: 5-stars-for-enjoyment, read-historical, favorite-historical, review, read-2013, favorites, best-of-the-best, he-is-mine

This will be a quote/pic review, I don't have time for a long one, and this is such a classic, that whatever I write won't be good enough :)
There will be spoilers as some of my fav quotes, just so you know :)

Thornton and Margaret <3

"He almost said to himself that he did not like her, before their conversation ended; he tried so to compensate himself for the mortified feeling, that while he looked upon her with an admiration he could not repress, she looked at him with proud indifference, taking him, he thought, for what, in his irritation, he told himself he was-a great rough fellow, with not a grace or a refinement about him."

"He shook hands with Margaret. He knew it was the first time their hands had met, though she was perfectly unconscious of the fact."

"He laid her down softly, and looking on her pure white face, the sense of what she was to him came upon him so keenly that he spoke it out in his pain:
'Oh, my Margaret-my Margaret! no one can tell what you are to me!'"

'I dare not hope. I never was fainthearted before; but I cannot believe such a creature cares for me.'
...
'But I know she does not care for me. I shall put myself at her feet-I must. If it were but one chance in a thousand-or a million-I should do it.'

'You look as if you thought it tainted you to be loved by me. You cannot avoid it. Nay, I, if I would, cannot cleanse you from it. But I would not, if I could. I have never loved any woman before: my life has been too busy, my thoughts too much absorbed with other things. Now I love, and will love. But do not be afraid of too much expression on my part.'

"How was it that he haunted her imagination so persistently? What could it be? Why did she care for what he thought, in spite of all her pride in spite of herself?"

"He lashed himself into an agony of fierce jealousy. He thought of that look, that attitude!-how he would have laid his life at her feet for such tender glances, such fond detention!"

"What shall I do? What do I mean? Why do I care what he thinks, beyond the mere loss of his good opinion as regards my telling the truth or not? I cannot tell. But I am very miserable! Oh, how unhappy this last year has been!"

'Where she had suffered so much.' Alas! and that was the way in which this eighteen months in Milton-to him so unspeakably precious, down to its very bitterness, which was worth all the rest of life's sweetness-would be remembered.

'I wanted to see the place where Margaret grew to what she is, even at the worst time of all, when I had no hope of ever calling her mine.'

'Oh, Mr. Thornton, I am not good enough!'
'Not good enough! Don't mock my own deep feeling of unworthiness.'

My buddy reader Nicole said everything there is to say about the book, just beautiful, if you want to know more, just read her review :)

DUCHESS NICOLE'S REVIEW

*buddy read with Tea, Karen, Nicole, Cathy, Amaryllis and I think there were some more people ahahhahah, anyway A LOT OF US*

...more

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Jul 23, 2008 Fiona rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

Recommends it for: fans of pride and prejudice

Shelves: setting-england, read-more-then-once, 2011, favourites, books-i-own, 2020, 2010, bought-new, 2009, classics

I have just completed reading this book for the second time and it has been even better then the first time.

I'd already seen the BBC series before reading the first time so I already knew the story, and I wish I'd come to the books afresh in a way though I do not think that would have altered in anyway, the way I perceived them. Though Richard Armitage certainly does help and I swooned over Thornton even more.

What I love about North and South is the passion and the realness of the characters, th I have just completed reading this book for the second time and it has been even better then the first time.

I'd already seen the BBC series before reading the first time so I already knew the story, and I wish I'd come to the books afresh in a way though I do not think that would have altered in anyway, the way I perceived them. Though Richard Armitage certainly does help and I swooned over Thornton even more.

What I love about North and South is the passion and the realness of the characters, the emotion between the characters. I loved the passion of Thornton, his feelings and emotion so strong and real they almost popped off the page.

The characters aren't characters but people, and they feel real and honest, not caricatures of people or flat emotionless representations.

North and South is Pride and Prejudice meets Industrial Revolution in the North of England. Only, Mr Darcy is more of a Margaret in that she snobs Mr Thornton in the beginning. Like Lizzie though, Margaret is a strong woman - and more fiercely independent.

Both of these books would make an interesting comparison. Both books are set in rather different times. North and South in a time when women could own property and so could be more independent. The industrial revolution was in full fledge with the rising middle class during a great time of progress. The railway made it easier for people of all classes to move about.

North and South is a love story that takes place on the background of two conflicts - the class conflict between the North and the South, and the conflict between the mill owners and the trade unions.

Mr Thornton is a tradesman from Milton (really Manchester) and Margaret is the daughter of a parson from the New Forest. She has grown up for most of her latter path of childhood in Harley Street, London.

When Margaret's father decides to leave his job as parson of Helstone in the New Forest over a crisis of conscience he takes his family to Milton to start a new life as a tutor. One of his favourite pupils is the mill owner, Mr Thornton who is brusque and does not have the manners of the south.

There was a great snobbery about tradesmen - even though money-wise Thornton was richer then the Hales - he was still a tradesman rather then a perceived gentleman. And through misunderstandings of each others manners and ways, Margaret and Mr Thornton often find themselves at opposing sides of the argument. Meanwhile, she also befriends Nicholas Higgins, a passionate mill worker who is behind the trade union strikes.

I much prefer North and South to Pride and Prejudice, though both are so different from each other in many ways. Gaskell is a bit more worldly, having been married, lived in the North and having a wider circle of friends. Her father was also a dissenter who left the church on grounds of consciousness, a theme I have noticed popping up in her other stories. (My Lady Ludlow springs to mind.) So North and South has a much more wider perspective.

I think in the end though, what makes a novel good, what makes a good author - is their ability to create characters that feel so real you can almost tough them. If the characters are flat, then so will the rest of the story even with a brilliant plot - it is the characters that make a story.

Margaret Hale and John Thornton are two people that live on in my imagination. ...more

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Dec 09, 2018 leynes rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

I finally figured out why I love North & South so fucking much: John Thornton is as invested in his relationship as I am. And that means a great deal. It's very rare to get such a deep look into the emotions of the male love interest but Gaskell didn't shy away from showing us our beautiful precious son from his most vulnerable side. The way he is (in a non-creepy way) so preoccupied with Margaret and constantly talks about her, so that his mother and sister get super annoyed just by the mention I finally figured out why I love North & South so fucking much: John Thornton is as invested in his relationship as I am. And that means a great deal. It's very rare to get such a deep look into the emotions of the male love interest but Gaskell didn't shy away from showing us our beautiful precious son from his most vulnerable side. The way he is (in a non-creepy way) so preoccupied with Margaret and constantly talks about her, so that his mother and sister get super annoyed just by the mention of her name, like HONESTLY SAME, JOHN, I, too, do nothing else but talk about Margaret and you. This is some relatable content right there.

Elizabeth Gaskell has such a way with words, I am so obsessed with her beautiful language (and also with all of the fitting poems that she chose as epigraphs for her chapters, gosh!); I literally cannot believe that she was friends with Charlotte Brontë ... like hun, you can do better!

Anyway, back to my favorite topic: Mr John Thornton. I have written down his TOP 10 moments (in chronological order) and, of course, I'll gladly share the list with you:

1) His first meeting with Margaret

He almost said to himself that he did not like her, before their conversation ended; he tried so to compensate himself for the mortified feeling, that while he looked upon her with an admiration he could not repress, she looked at him with proud indifference, taking him, he thought, for what, in his irritation, he told himself he was — a great rough fellow, with not a grace or a refinement about him.

John is just such a precious little boy, like, my man is just damn insecure and confused that he's so shook about Margaret, and honestly, I can relate. He tries so hard to gain control of his emotions but he's immediately besotted by her.

2) His persistence of wanting to shake her hands

It was the frank familiar custom of the place; but Margaret was not prepared for it. She simply bowed her farewell; although the instant she saw the hand, half put out, quickly drawn back, she was sorry she had not been aware of the intention.

You could seriously make a whole saga about their hand touching business because Miss Gaskell really thought this shit through. I mean it takes so many tries for them to finally shake hands that when they do "he knew it was the first time their hands had met, though she was perfectly unconscious of the fact." I love a self-aware queen! ;)

3) His ability to admit his mistakes

‘I spoke hastily to you once this evening, and I am afraid, rather rudely. But you know I am but an uncouth Milton manufacturer; will you forgive me?’

John and Margaret disagree on almost every single topic, especially when it comes to trade and life in the North compared to the South, and I love their exchange of blows ... but what I absolutely fucking stan are the moments of tenderness during which John tries to get on Maragret's good side again. I mean, he truly is a soft boiiiii.

4) His eyes were on the goddamn prize!

Mr. Thornton felt that in this influx no one was speaking to Margaret, and was restless under this apparent neglect. But he never went near her himself; he did not look at her. Only, he knew what she was doing — or not doing — better than he knew the movements of any one else in the room.

John cares so much for Margaret. He wants her to have friends, he wants her to be accepted by the people in Milton. He genuinely wants her to be happy and have a good time ... but since he's an anxious smol son, AAAAAANGST gets in the way of him reaching out to her. I cry.

5) The whole drama on the doorstep where Margaret gets hits by a stone

Everything seemed dim and vague beyond — behind — besides the touch of her arms round his neck — the soft clinging which made the dark colour come and go in his cheek as he thought of it.

Hold my fucking beer, because I knew I was a goner after this scene. Gaskell is such a drama queen and I am 100% here for it. That whole scene. What a mess! Thornton's complete lack of chill whenever Margaret is involved really mesmerises me.

6) The damn proposal scene

‘And the gentleman thus rescued is forbidden the relief of thanks!’ he broke in contemptuously. ‘I am a man. I claim the right of expressing my feelings.’

YOU TELL HER, JOHN! I mean, Margaret was completely savage in her refusal and I love her for it, but my precious boy did really well by standing his ground and letting more of his vulnerable side show.

7) His jealousy which never turned into possessiveness

He lashed himself into an agony of fierce jealousy. He thought of that look, that attitude! — how he would have laid his life at her feet for such tender glances, such fond detention!

I mean, let's not kid ourselves, there's one thing this book excels at and that's pining BUT John is always soooo respectful when it comes to his feelings towards Margaret? He doesn't think she belongs to him, he's fully convinced she'll never have him and that she's too good for him and after her refusal, he just accepts that and leaves her alone, despite the fact that his feelings for her haven't vanished.

8) The Farewell Scene

‘No!’ said he, ‘I put it to the touch once, and I lost it all. Let her go — with her stony heart, and her beauty; — how set and terrible her look is now, for all her loveliness of feature! She is afraid I shall speak what will require some stern repression. Let her go. Beauty and heiress as she may be, she will find it hard to meet with a truer heart than mine. Let her go!’

I mean, BITCH, I cried. I really thought it was over at this point. Their farewell was heartbreaking. John was so bitter and sad about it but he knew there was nothing he could to, and so he let her be. Like, we stan a realistic queen!

9) Their motherfucking reunion

He came close to her. He knelt by her side, to bring his face to a level with her ear; and whispered-panted out the words:— ‘Take care. — If you do not speak — I shall claim you as my own in some strange presumptuous way. — Send me away at once, if I must go; — Margaret! —’

These hoes really had me convinced that they wouldn't end up together, like, I had mentally prepared myself for Margaret marrying motherfucking Lennox (this man can choke, boyyy) and so you will believe how shooketh I was when I found out that Margaret and Johnny boy would be endgame. I mean, nothing will top his declarations of love.

10) HE. HAS. NO. CHILL.

‘I wanted to see the place where Margaret grew to what she is, even at the worst time of all, when I had no hope of ever calling her mine. I went there on my return from Havre.’

He went to Helstone, the place of her upbringing, like what? John is a hopeless romantic AND, not gonna lie, this book turned me into one as well. I watched the BBC mini series two times within the span of three days, and I need Richard Armitage as John Thornton in my life. He can get it any day.

Apart from my love for my baby boy John, North & South has to offer a wide range of characters who are all interesting and well-fleshed out. I particularly enjoyed John's loving relationship to his mother, and how much she cared for him and wanted to protect him, but also all the drama surrounding the strike and the plight of the workers, especially Nicholas and Bessy Higgins were wonderful characters I grew very fond of. Dixon is a force of nature and I love her more than life itself; the way she cared for Mrs Hale and Margaret was so heartwearming, and she was also COMEDY GOLD!

‘Bless her!’ said Dixon. ‘She’s as sweet as a nut. There are three people I love: it’s missus, Master Frederick, and her. Just them three. That’s all. The rest be hanged, for I don’t know what they’re in the world for.’

In general, North & South featured many moments that I could easily relate to: Margaret's disgust at all the men who are interested in her, her inability to refuse nicely, Margaret being tired all the time. She is hands down one of my favorite heroines in Victorian literature. Such a strong and self-determined woman! I will leave you with my favorite moment of hers: “He was speaking in a subdued voice, as if to her alone. She did not wish to be so exclusively addressed. She replied out in her usual tone.” What. A. Savage. ...more

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Apr 03, 2014 Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽ rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

Shelves: oldies-but-goodies, book-club-reads, classics, historical-fiction

So about 5 years ago a friend and I were fangirling about Jane Austen generally and debating the merits of the various film adaptations of Pride and Prejudice--Colin Firth and Elizabeth Garvie (from the 1980 BBC version) FTW, by the way--and she says, "You have to watch this!" and hands me a couple of DVDs of North and South. And I say "thank you" but I'm thinking to myself, well, Patrick Swayze was pretty hot back in the day, but why on earth is she giving me DVDs of a U.S. Civil War miniserie ...more

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Jun 07, 2018 Candi rated it really liked it · review of another edition

Shelves: kindle, classics-shelf

Update June 16, 2018: I watched the BBC production this past week and it was outstanding! I highly recommend pairing the book with the movie. While I rated the book 4 stars, the entire package of paper and screen is a sure 5+ stars. The movie adds that extra bit of magic that I found didn't come across as well in the writing alone. And the acting? - superb! Yes, I did need to fan myself on several occasions - thank you Richard Armitage. And that ending.... sigh :)

About three or four years ago I Update June 16, 2018: I watched the BBC production this past week and it was outstanding! I highly recommend pairing the book with the movie. While I rated the book 4 stars, the entire package of paper and screen is a sure 5+ stars. The movie adds that extra bit of magic that I found didn't come across as well in the writing alone. And the acting? - superb! Yes, I did need to fan myself on several occasions - thank you Richard Armitage. And that ending.... sigh :)

About three or four years ago I picked up a copy of Gaskell’s Wives and Daughters on a whim, never before having heard of the book or even the author for that matter. (I know, thank goodness for Goodreads or I would forever remain in a state of ignorance!) I did not expect to become absolutely smitten with both the novel and its characters. I immediately placed it on my ‘favorites’ shelf and added numerous other Gaskell works to my list. Finally, I have gotten around to reading another.

I will start out by saying that I truly enjoyed and appreciated this work of fiction. Set in England during the time of the Industrial Revolution, North and South tackles some of the major economic and social issues of the time. Gaskell earnestly depicts the differences between the north of England and the south of England both geographically as well as through her characters. With great insight, she portrays the conflicts between the working class and the more affluent mill-owners, the ‘masters’. She is sympathetic to both, realizing that each depend upon a mutual understanding in order to thrive.

"I see two classes dependent on each other in every possible way, yet each evidently regarding the interests of the other as opposed to their own; I never lived in a place before where there were two sets of people always running each other down."

Margaret Hale has lived a life of luxury in London with her Aunt Shaw and cousin Edith for some time. When she moves back to the relative tranquility and more modest living of her parents' home in Helstone, she quickly adapts to her new surroundings. However, when her father decides to leave his position as minister of this small hamlet and uproots the family to the manufacturing town of Milton in the north of England, neither Margaret nor her mother are at all keen about this sudden upheaval. The ‘north’ is a place of smoke and fog, factories, factory-workers and tradesmen. Margaret brings along some of her preconceived notions and prejudices to Milton: "I call mine a very comprehensive taste; I like all people whose occupations have to do with land; I like soldiers and sailors, and the three learned professions, as they call them. I'm sure you don't want me to admire butchers and bakers, and candlestick-makers, do you, mamma?"

While in Milton, Margaret’s father, Mr. Hale, strikes up a friendship with the self-made industrialist John Thornton. Margaret and Thornton, on the other hand, clash immediately. But it is through this antagonism that each grows and learns from the other. Thornton is a man who at first appears hard and uncompromising. Like the others of his profession, he remains stolidly apart from his subordinates. Margaret eventually befriends millworker Nicholas Higgins and his ailing daughter, Bessy, whose lungs have been permanently damaged from her work in the factory. This newfound friendship changes Margaret from one contemptuous towards the working class to one that becomes an advocate of social justice. She has found new meaning to her life. "From that day Milton became a brighter place to her. It was not the long, bleak sunny days of spring, nor yet was it that time was reconciling her to the town of her habitation. It was that in it she had found a human interest."

When Margaret inadvertently becomes involved in a mill-workers’ strike organized by the union, she and Thornton reach a turning point; yet misunderstandings, pride and former sensibilities stand in the way of what seems to be a mutual admiration. Margaret’s championing of the workers along with Thornton’s respect for Miss Hale and his recognition of the plight of his employees bring about much needed change. The question remains as to whether this will be enough for both a lasting harmony between ‘master’ and worker as well as a triumph of love between man and woman, that between north and south.

This is a book that I would not hesitate to recommend to anyone that is fond of classic Victorian literature. It is a novel of tremendous self-discovery and excellent character development – particularly in the protagonists, Margaret and Thornton. It is an interesting and worthy depiction of the Industrial Revolution in England. It did not quite soar to the level of Wives and Daughters for me personally, perhaps slightly lacking in the magical charm of that beloved treasure. I also love a dash of wit sprinkled into my classic literature as well and did not quite find that here. Nevertheless, it is a very fine piece of literature and I’m very pleased to have read it. I have a copy of the BBC production sitting on my coffee table just begging to be watched. I anticipate a huge swoon fest with that one! I mean, seriously, who can resist Richard Armitage?! His voice alone is enough to make a fairly reasonable girl turn giddy. Maybe an update to the review on that later. ...more

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Apr 19, 2017 Lisa rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

Shelves: 1001-books-to-read-before-you-die

"Pride and Prejudice" wouldn't have been a bad title for this comparative study of English society in the midst of the Industrial Revolution.

I must say that I was prejudiced against it before starting, and have to swallow my pride and admit I was wrong!

I thought it would be a dry copy cat version of Hard Times, as the circumstances of its publication seemed to suggest that. But never trust your prejudices - that is what I learned from reading this highly entertaining and original story, and it ...more

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Apr 09, 2020 Katerina rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

Shelves: classics, 2020-reads, favorites

A true masterpiece.

This story is now buried in my molecules. I can’t remove it even if I try, if I cut my heart open with a scalpel and dig deep, deep, deep. The blood pouring will still hum and whisper Elizabeth Gaskell’s words, will sing about Thornton’s passion, Margaret’s strength, about love and social war and loss and pain and faith.

❝ Take care. If you do not speak – I shall claim you as my own in some strange presumptuous way. Send me away at once, if I must go; – Margaret! –❞

Raised in th ...more

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Jul 29, 2018 Em Lost In Books rated it really liked it · review of another edition

Shelves: 1800-1900, 4-star, 2018, stand-alone-read

“Oh, Mr. Thornton, I am not good enough!'

'Not good enough! Don't mock my own deep feeling of unworthiness.”

It took Margaret and Mr Thornton 451 pages (my edition) to reach here and what a journey it was. Painful at times, and adorable at others.

Margaret came to the industrial town of Milton from Haleston, a village. Her father who is a parson took Mr. Thornton as his student. Soon Margaret and Mr. Thornton find themselves on the opposite side of wall which has poor people on one side and ri ...more

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Mar 14, 2017 Piyangie rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

Shelves: my-library, brittish-lit, favorite-classic

This third reading brought to my notice that certain opinions that I have formed, especially on Margaret's feelings and emotions, were based on a misconception, and that I have failed to give my full attention to the subtle details that were so cleverly presented. To rectify this I'm obliged to amend my original review.

North and South was my first Gaskell read. I read it after watching the BBC TV series and perhaps due to the influence of the TV series got the overall impression that this was This third reading brought to my notice that certain opinions that I have formed, especially on Margaret's feelings and emotions, were based on a misconception, and that I have failed to give my full attention to the subtle details that were so cleverly presented. To rectify this I'm obliged to amend my original review.

North and South was my first Gaskell read. I read it after watching the BBC TV series and perhaps due to the influence of the TV series got the overall impression that this was a love story. However, I remember liking the book very much and this prompted me to reread the book. But after this second reading, I'm surprised to find it is to be otherwise. I mean, there is still a love story but that is not all. It is also about the clash of southern and northern ideas and the clash of the working-class and their masters.

Margaret Hale, full of southern pride, finds herself suddenly placed in a northern industrial city. Having entertained a strong prejudice against the tradesmen, she views the northern mill owners to be similar uncouth men. Her pride and the misconceived notions mar her better judgment and she forms an instant dislike for Mr. Thornton. This dislike was mutual initially, but Mr. Thornton goes through gradual change; and although he dislikes her haughty ways, he slowly learns to appreciate her for her true qualities and falls in love. Margaret, though not as quickly as Mr. Thornton, too goes through this gradual change and learns to appreciate who he truly is.

Gaskell's idea of bringing these two characters, as I see, is twofold. First, through these characters, one from the south and other from north, she shows us how the different views, beliefs, and misconceptions of the two ends were reconciled. The southerners saw the industrial northern cities as noisy, smoky, and full of uncouth people while the northerners saw the south as full of idle people who lacked action and also depth. It was interesting to see how Gaskell expressed these clashing views of both ends through her main characters, and the final reconciliation of the two was more like a reconciliation of North and South where both sides come to understand and respect their different ways. Second is, of course, for the obvious reason of filling a love story. Gaskell has achieved these two-folds end brilliantly. In my original review, which was written after my second reading, I have expressed my view that Margaret's and John's story lacked romance, that it was more one-sided on the part of Mr. Thonton's, and Margaret's feelings and her ultimate realization of her love for Mr. Thornton was rather forced. This is not so! I have misconstrued Margaret's emotions and feelings and have completely missed out on Margaret's subtle gradual change of perception and accordingly her feelings. There were words, phrases, sentences, direct and implying, which showed Margaret's changes of feeling. Even the sighs and the silence in between the lines contributed to the change! My inattention to these subtle details has blundered me in my judgment of Margaret and their romance. I'm very glad that my third reading has put me out of my misconception.

On "master" and "hand" (workman) relationship, Gaskell stresses the importance of creating an amenable setting between the two classes to achieve greater productivity. The observation Margaret makes during a conversation with Mr. Thornton and her father that "I see two classes dependent on each other in every possible way, yet each evidently regarding the interests of the other as opposed to their own.." neatly summarises the antagonism of the masters and the working class. Higgins who represents the working class and Thornton, the masters were used by Gaskell to bring out the conflict between the two classes. It was very interesting to read the clash of these two classes through these two differing yet strong characters. The gradual change of opinion of Higgins and Thornton towards each other, not as a workman and master, but as human beings, and their growing respect for each other shows Gaskell's optimism for better relations of two classes.

It was an amazing reread and I can honestly say that it is this reading that made me fully appreciate this beloved book.

P.S. I wish there were few chapters added by Gaskell after Margaret and John met again on reversing circumstances and declare their feelings for each other. I may sound sentimental but I so wanted to read a little more than their initial declaration of love. :) ...more

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Nov 03, 2014 Melindam rated it liked it · review of another edition

Shelves: anglophilia, tt-7sins, victorian-england, classics

3.5 stars

Recommended to everyone who likes classic Victorian drama whether they have seen the stunning BBC mini series or not.

SPOILER ALERT
N&S is about Hampshire-born (the South) Margaret Hale forced to leave her beloved home in the southern countryside as his father - a former parson - resigns his parsonage because of religious doubts and takes his family to Milton in Darkshire (the North). There Margaret makes friends with Nicholas Higgins, a poor, but honest and upright weaver and union man a 3.5 stars

Recommended to everyone who likes classic Victorian drama whether they have seen the stunning BBC mini series or not.

SPOILER ALERT
N&S is about Hampshire-born (the South) Margaret Hale forced to leave her beloved home in the southern countryside as his father - a former parson - resigns his parsonage because of religious doubts and takes his family to Milton in Darkshire (the North). There Margaret makes friends with Nicholas Higgins, a poor, but honest and upright weaver and union man and his mortally ill daughter, Bessy. Their circumstances make her even more prejudiced against the North.
She is appalled at the industrial, noisy, polluted and cruel milieu embodied in John Thornton, a proud, successful northern mill-owner, her father's pupil. Although Thornton is a straightforward man of honour and decency, Margaret condemns him as ungentleman-like, greedy for profit and cruel to workers. Their different principles clash right from the start.
Thornton is aware of Margaret's dislike and contempt for him and his ways but he cannot help falling passionately in love with her, feeling all the while that he "is not good enough for her". Dramatic events - the riotous workers on strike threaten his life and Margaret shields him with her own body when they start to throw stones at him - make him confess his love for Margaret which is indignantly rejected by the girl (she has acted upon pure and general charity and would have done the same for all her fellow-men).
The drastic change of scenery and circumstances affect the whole family very badly, especially Margaret's mother, Mrs Hale, whose health is continuously failing her. Margaret struggles to keep up family peace, to help out in household chores - as no proper servant can be found - and to be a son and a daughter in one for her parents.
There is a family secret hidden from public knowledge: Margaret's brother, Frederic Hale, former officer of the Navy, is in hiding and wanted for having been the ringleader of a mutiny. His return would surely cost him his life, however, Margaret writes him a letter begging his return as their mother's last wish is to see him once more before she dies.
Frederic arrives and spends some time with his beloved family, but is compelled to go away as he is threatened with discovery.
Mr Thornton sees him & his sister saying their goodbyes at the station and takes them for lovers. That is the first time that Margaret realizes she cares about the possible loss of his good opinion of her.
Unfortunately he is not the only one they encounter at the station endangering not only Frederic's life (he is able to escape) but Margaret's reputation as well. It is John Thornton, as magistrate, who helps to save both (the latter directly, the former indirectly).
A chain of events change both Thornton's and Margaret's life taking Margaret back to the south, to London, and financial disaster is looming over Thornton, but they are fated to meet again ...

I like the novel a lot, there is a great story and good, solid characterisation, but there are quite a few parts where it is just bogged down with much too much detail, especially when it comes to bad things happening to Margaret (and most of the time it is bad things happening). Elizabeth Gaskell grabs at every opportunity to wax on how saintly and heroic Margaret is in the face of all the tragedy that ensues after her father's -as it turns out- really catastrophic decision to leave the South. All calamity is described at length, Margaret's trumpet is being blown at every opportunity up to the point where I started disliking her a bit. And when we come to the happy ending??: WHAM - it gets dealt with in 1.5 pages, which leaves me disappointed. BAH! ... But it is all soooo worth it to have Richard Armitage play Mr Thornton in the TV series. ;)

North and South gets compared a lot to Pride and Prejudice and while some parallels can certainly be found and similarities between Mr Darcy and Mr Thornton get pointed out, Margaret is no Elizabeth Bennet. (If I were pushed, I would say there are more similarities between her character and Fanny Price in a way: moral uprightness, but also an unforgiving stance to human weaknesses in others.)
Still, I can't resist sharing with you this image :)
description

...more

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Jun 17, 2007 Ailsa rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

Recommends it for: Fans of 19th century lit in general

Shelves: classics, women-writers

I can't quite put my finger on why I love this book quite as much as I do. And even for someone who does re-read books as much as I do, to get through 3 copies of one book is quite a feat. For me, the most remarkable achievement of Gaskell is that she is able to combine so many elements of various 19th century novelistic traditions and yet not have the novel collapse into incomprehensibility.

The broad scope of the novel, coupled with insightful depth and comment means that each reading of the bo I can't quite put my finger on why I love this book quite as much as I do. And even for someone who does re-read books as much as I do, to get through 3 copies of one book is quite a feat. For me, the most remarkable achievement of Gaskell is that she is able to combine so many elements of various 19th century novelistic traditions and yet not have the novel collapse into incomprehensibility.

The broad scope of the novel, coupled with insightful depth and comment means that each reading of the book can offer something new. Read it as a straight forward (or not) love story, a fictional romantic biography. Then discover the class politics that run through the novel. Or perhaps the debate (as the title suggests) between the rapidly industrialising north and the more gentrified south. Or the sexual and gender politics that create a constant thematic pulse throughout the book... Or any other matter you choose to seek out from religion to the nature of authority and so on and so forth. There is so much to be gained from the many directions in which this book can pull you: I personally have often come away from the book wanting to follow up on points raised, to examine the history behind the work. Or, if in a romantic mood, I will find snippets of prose or dialogue floating around my head.

I imagine for the majority of readers their primary concern is the love/hate relationship between Margaret and Thornton. Their story is successful because they are believable: they are imperfect, act willfully and foolishly, but ultimately they are good people. Margaret, especially, is an engaging heroine: her independance and strength of character in the face of (remorseless) adversity make her compelling, and gives the reader a real desire to see her gain her "happy" ending.

Criticisms I have heard against the book have numbered the following:

-It is dry
-Its "over-emotional" prose kills any actual emotion (i.e: it is poorly written)
-It is unbelievable
-Gaskell mimics other author's styles

But I believe most criticisms can be easily refuted. Obviously, to enjoy this book you need to familiarise and accept the conventions of the 19th century novel (i.e: long, expository, sentimental, sensational) and soak up the atmosphere and melodrama as part of the essential charm of the novel. After all, that's how the escapism occurs! North and South is no more dry (and in my personal opinion a lot less dry) than Dickens, far less emotional than the heated Villette, and certainly as believable as anything written by Austen, Shelley or the Brontes. Indeed, Gaskell is more firmly tied to realism via her evocation of working class Manchester. And in terms of Gaskell owing much in style to, say Dickens, that is no great suprise: Gaskell was similarly writing in serialised format, and Dickens edited much of North and South. But owing a stylistic debt to another artist is not an indicator of lack of artistic merit: otherwise we would have to discount the majority of Shakespeare's work.

Essentially then, this is a book that continues to keep giving and at the very least will provide a very pleasant few hours of escapism into another (marvellously pictured) world.

...more

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Jan 06, 2013 Duchess Nicole rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

Recommended to Duchess Nicole by: Alexandra

Shelves: genre-historical-fiction, genre-classics, buddy-reads, epic, recommendations, genre-historical-romance, make-me-cry, read-in-2013, e-pcs

"And yet, yo see, North and South has both met and made kind o' friend in this big smoky place."
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I almost feel like a fraud reviewing books like this. I know that there are probably many details that I miss entirely, some nuances that go straight over my head, but these are my thoughts...however scattered they are.

Margaret Hale's father has been the spiritual leader of his community of Helston for decades. Now he questions his faith...not necessarily his belief in God, but maybe th ...more

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Jul 31, 2019 Ahmad Sharabiani rated it really liked it · review of another edition

Shelves: classics, british, historical, literature, fiction, romance, 19th-century

North and South, Elizabeth Gaskell

North and South is a social novel published in 1854 by British writer Elizabeth Gaskell.

Eighteen-year-old Margaret Hale lived for almost 10 years in London with her cousin Edith and her wealthy aunt Shaw, but when Edith marries Captain Lennox, Margaret happily returns home to the southern village of Helstone.

Margaret has refused an offer of marriage from the captain's brother Henry, an up-and-coming barrister. Her life is turned upside down when her father, t ...more

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May 10, 2018 Olive Fellows (abookolive) rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

Shelves: favorites-all-time, favorites-2018

I think I may have loved this even more than I loved Wives & Daughters. I could cry I'm so disappointed it's over. ...more

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Jun 18, 2016 Amalia Gavea rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

Shelves: british-literature, 19th-century, england, classics, united-kingdom, favorites, manchester

“Loyalty and obedience to wisdom and justice are fine; but it is still finer to defy arbitrary power, unjustly and cruelly used--not on behalf of ourselves, but on behalf of others more helpless.”

“One word more. You look as if you thought it tainted you to be loved by me. You cannot avoid it. Nay, I, if I would, cannot cleanse you from it. But I would not, if I could. I have never loved any woman before: my life has been too busy, my thoughts too much absorbed with other things. Now I lov ...more

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Sep 08, 2019 Bionic Jean rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

Shelves: 19th-century-ish, classics, read-authors-e-h

North and South. A simple enough title, but what are its concerns? It dates from the mid-nineteenth century, and has a female author. Is it perhaps a family drama?

The protagonist is Margaret Hale, and her extended family relationships and friendships certainly drive much of the novel. There is drama and tragedy. Two of those dear to both her and us die; one is almost permanently in exile and another branch of the family: the Shaws in London, are wealthy but rather shallow. Entering the scene ar ...more

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Sep 07, 2018 Beata rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

Shelves: favorites

At last!! That man and that woman understood they are meant for each other!! This novel is a real gem among the classics. I was only a little acquainted with Mrs Gaskell having read just Wives and Daughters and, I admit, it was a foolish mistake of mine to put off starting on another novel. Margaret and Mr Thornton are beautifully strong characters and they won my heart immediately. The social background, the clash between the rural and urban worlds, was most fascinating for me. Mrs Gaskell was ...more

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Feb 18, 2008 Dawn rated it really liked it · review of another edition

I read this because I'd seen the BBC production, and wondered if Margaret Hale would be less silly in the book. North and South sounds like it should be about social and geographic divisions, but it's actually about finding balance amidst constant change. Although I found her character annoyingly reactive, the Miss Hale of the novel is decidedly less silly than she of the movie.

I've read comparisons of Mr. Thornton to Jane Austen's Mr. Darcy, but I don't personally see much likeness--aside from ...more

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Dec 21, 2011 Emma Deplores Goodreads Censorship rated it it was ok · review of another edition

Shelves: 2-stars, classics, historical-fiction, england

Caution: Spoilers and Snark abound!

I’m afraid this review will not be popular with fans of the author, or those who see classic literature as unassailable. But after slogging through this book (especially so soon after discovering Villette, a truly excellent classic!), I feel obliged to warn potential readers, and let those who were disappointed with the book but wary about criticizing a classic know that they aren’t alone.

So, then: a recipe for North and South:

- Add one romantic plotline borrow ...more

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Oct 30, 2019 Merphy Napier rated it really liked it · review of another edition

Shelves: romance, adult, classics, four-stars

I loved this book. Such a cute story with compelling characters. What I loved most about it though was the ending (view spoiler) ...more

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Nov 25, 2011 Kim rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

Shelves: audiobook

I came to this novel, as is the case for many readers, through the BBC television adaptation, which I watched for the first time earlier this year. While I had not consciously avoided the novel and its adaptation until now, it's probably the case that I have been unconsciously avoiding Victorian fiction for some years, preferring the less ponderous novels of the earlier 19th century (particularly Austen) and the leaner style of 20th century fiction.

However at the moment I’m in the mood for Victo
I came to this novel, as is the case for many readers, through the BBC television adaptation, which I watched for the first time earlier this year. While I had not consciously avoided the novel and its adaptation until now, it's probably the case that I have been unconsciously avoiding Victorian fiction for some years, preferring the less ponderous novels of the earlier 19th century (particularly Austen) and the leaner style of 20th century fiction.

However at the moment I’m in the mood for Victoriana and this novel fits the bill perfectly. There are a lot of words – way more than is needed to simply tell the tale – and the tale itself has its share of sentimentality and melodrama. But I loved every word of the book and every overblown feeling that those words expressed. Having finished it, I will miss the world it took me to and I’m wondering how long it will be before I can visit that world again.

I listened to the novel in audiobook format, narrated by Juliet Stevenson. As is to be expected, the quality of the narration is superb. Stevenson flawlessly brings each character distinctly to life.

At the heart of North and South is the relationship between the two main protagonists: proud ex-parson’s daughter Margaret Hale and equally proud mill owner and industrialist John Thornton. They have different backgrounds, different attitudes and different sensibilities. They represent different worlds – she the world of the gentry from the agrarian and intellectual south of England, he the self-made men of the industrial north. They meet, they clash, they misunderstand each other. For the relationship to ultimately be resolved, they have to find a point of balance, a place of harmony, where the prejudices engendered by their differing backgrounds can give way to a new way of thinking and acting. The difficulties in the relationship of Margaret Hale and John Thornton are played out against the turmoil of 19th century England. Gaskell weaves into the novel the differences in attitude between the north and the south of the country, the conflict between capitalists and labour and the shifts in class and gender relations.

Some readers may find the novel’s discussion of social issues verging on the preachy, but I didn’t. I found it to be a fascinating glimpse not only into what I presume were Gaskell’s political and social views (although I know relatively little about Gaskell), but also into the attitudes of conservative, thoughtful, people towards the social change occurring at that time. This sense of change – change happening very fast, change that has to be coped with in order for the characters to survive – is a thread running through the novel. Margaret Hale in particular experiences extreme changes in her life and in her attitudes over the time span of the novel. John Thornton also experiences changes in his life circumstances and – crucially - in his attitude towards the relationship between employers and employees. Both characters have to deal with the changes in their lives while remaining true to themselves before they can find that place of harmony where they can be together. The resolution of their relationship symbolises the potential for a resolution of the social conflict which Gaskell so clearly describes.

Reviewers of North and South occasionally comment on the difference between the final scene in the novel and the final scene in the television adaptation. I like both. (view spoiler)

There are times when my reader’s soul craves lean, hard prose, stripped of excess adjectives and adverbs, where the action happens quickly and description is kept to a minimum. There are times when I am happy to wallow in lovely long words, with an abundance of description. This is a book for those times. It lacks the sparkle and wit of an Austen novel. Its language does not have the poetry of Hardy’s descriptions of landscape. But it’s a wonderful experience for a patient reader who wants to travel to a different time and place and is in the mood for an interesting tale, well told.
...more

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Sep 17, 2011 Jason Koivu rated it really liked it · review of another edition

Shelves: fiction

Where Austen leaves off, Gaskell picks up.

There is a great similarity in the style of these two 19th century writers. Both wield language with elegance and strength. Call it muscle-bound eloquence!

Gaskell was born during the time in which Austen set most of her books...well round about then anyway. It's hard to tell exactly when most Austen novels are set, but generally they're meant to be prior to or during the Napoleonic Wars (1803-1815). Gaskell was born in 1810.

However, Gaskell's writing ...more

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Jun 23, 2008 Diane rated it really liked it · review of another edition

Shelves: british-charm, movie-adaptation

I'll admit that until about a month ago, I had never heard of Elizabeth Gaskell. I stumbled on her work after watching the BBC's miniseries North & South, which I loved. (All of you Pride & Prejudice fans out there should check out North & South. It's wonderful.)

Anyway, I read up on Gaskell and found that she's a hidden gem of 19th century British literature. Her books have romance, but also strong social themes. North & South focuses on the factories and industrial workers in northern England i ...more

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Feb 06, 2017 Phrynne rated it liked it · review of another edition

I usually really enjoy books of this genre but this one left me unmoved.
I liked the characters who were all beautifully drawn and well rounded. Mrs Hale has to take the prize for selfishness although several others came very close.
I enjoyed the story very much but felt that the author rambled a bit too far and also enjoyed her soap box a little too much. These were all important issues of the time but were delivered with a very heavy hand.
The relationship between Mr Thornton and Margaret was d ...more

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Aug 21, 2018 Beverly rated it really liked it · review of another edition

Love's tortured path

Written in the 1850s, North and South tells the story of Miss Margaret Hale, a young lady from southern, agrarian England and Mr. Thornton, a self-made, wealthy industrialist from northern England. Each is opposite to the other in all things so they begin their acquaintance at a disadvantage and continue being at odds throughout the whole course of the book. Miss Hale is proud, but likes helping her fellow man, because of her religion and because of her integrity. Mr. Thornto ...more

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Aug 22, 2018 Alienor ✘ French Frowner ✘ rated it really liked it · review of another edition

Shelves: classics, historical, 2018-read, romance, classics-uk-us, 2018-favorites

I wish Thornton and Margaret would kiss but I guess I'll have to watch the BBC mini-series for that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I loved the growth of the characters most of all (and the ruin of their prejudices) though, so I'm quite satisfied ;)

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Nov 03, 2015 Jane rated it it was amazing

Shelves: re-reading

I shall always remember ‘North and South’ as one of the last books that my mother and I discovered together. She loved books all her life, and even when her short term memory and her ability to follow a story faded she still appreciated lovely prose, being told about the books I was reading, and watching costume dramas on television. She loved the BBC adaptation of ‘Cranford’, and was able to recall studying the book and school and talk about how what she watched and heard compared with what she ...more

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Jan 31, 2012 Rowena rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

Shelves: english-lit, favorites, classics

I had never really considered reading any Elizabeth Gaskell novels until I watched, and greatly enjoyed, the BBC adaptation of North and South.I have to say, I love both the book and the miniseries equally!

Mr Thornton has definitely acceded to the post of best literary hero in my mind (sorry, Mr Darcy!). I couldn't help but swoon over his thoughts. What a man!

One of the things I really loved about this book was how real the characters were. They had their insecurities, weaknesses and petty jeal ...more

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Oct 18, 2008 Sherwood Smith added it · review of another edition

Shelves: fiction, history-19th-c

Gaskell is at her best with the tiny details of life that make the characters and the setting come into sharp focus: Margaret sitting on the worn carpet before the fire, the candles unlit until her parents appear. The observation about how two people, left alone in an enormous room, will speak in low voices as if "unwilling to awaken the unused echoes."

Gaskell's side characters, especially the women, are delightfully rounded, even if her hero and heroine are a tad too uprightly conventional: Mrs Gaskell is at her best with the tiny details of life that make the characters and the setting come into sharp focus: Margaret sitting on the worn carpet before the fire, the candles unlit until her parents appear. The observation about how two people, left alone in an enormous room, will speak in low voices as if "unwilling to awaken the unused echoes."

Gaskell's side characters, especially the women, are delightfully rounded, even if her hero and heroine are a tad too uprightly conventional: Mrs. Thornton's conflicted character shows signs of the beautiful characterizations to come in Wives and Daughters. Ditto Fanny Thornton and Edith, Mr. Bell, and Mr. Higgins.

On the downside, in this her second novel she is still using standard Victorian tropes--Margaret (who is supposed to be strong and vital) fainting every time she is shocked or surprised, lingering sentimental deathbeds, wise suffering children (Bessie is very hard to take), sudden deaths as plot conveniences.

It can be said that sudden death was a part of life at that time, but there are a lot of them here, and Mr. Bell's convenient appearance at the end (rather than when he should have come, before the Hales had to go to Milton in the first place) and his equally convenient death diminishes the dramatic impact even as it gives the requisite happy ending.

Then there is the unconvincing Frederick/Leonards thread, as if Gaskell shrank from violent detail, whereas a scene I think was meant to be funny about boiling a cat to death is shocking and horrid--reminding us of very different attitudes of the time.

I believe we are supposed to like John Thornton more when he (in another Victorian trope) discovers third-hand (because maidenly delicacy forbids Margaret to actually communicate with him) that the man Margaret was seen walking with at the railway station was her brother, and he is relieved that she was never guilty of "unmaidenly" behavior. Though that is a real eye-roller now, I think what Gaskell was groping for was Thornton being a good guy because he respected women. Clue: he is very good to his mother. Unfortunately, there is that underlying judgment about only "good" women deserving respect.

But this is a step along a very steep, stony trail. And Gaskell did slowly divest herself of Victorian tropes in favor if subtlety and complexity in her characters, as she wrote more.

One more observation, something I've noticed in Gaskell and Elliott and several other Victorian writers of that period, how they go on and on about women's throats. Is this supposed to be covert sexiness? The arched and swan-like columned throats are peculiar but persistent through literature of this period. I should do a read to see if male writers use it as ubiquitously as female writers do. ...more

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topics	posts	views	last activity
#ClassicsCommunit...: North and South June Buddy Read	80	125	Jul 11, 2020 11:57AM
Victorians!: North and South: Week 6: Chapters XLIV–LII	43	28	May 24, 2020 02:39AM
Victorians!: North and South: Week 5: Chapters XXXVII–XLIII	37	25	May 21, 2020 11:15PM
Victorians!: North and South: Week 4: Chapters XXVIII–XXXVI	34	34	May 19, 2020 09:37PM
Victorians!: North and South: Background, Resources, Reading Schedule	38	76	May 19, 2020 03:51AM
What ails Mrs. Hale?	18	825	May 17, 2020 07:42PM
Victorians!: North and South: Week 3: Chapters XIX–XXVII	46	31	May 04, 2020 01:13AM

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About Elizabeth Gaskell

Elizabeth Gaskell

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Elizabeth Cleghorn Gaskell, née Stevenson (29 September 1810 – 12 November 1865), often referred to simply as Mrs. Gaskell, was an English novelist and short story writer during the Victorian era. She is perhaps best known for her biography of Charlotte Brontë. Her novels offer a detailed portrait of the lives of many strata of society, including the very poor, and as such are of interest to socia ...more

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Quotes from North and South

“I know you despise me; allow me to say, it is because you do not understand me.” — 456 likes

“One word more. You look as if you thought it tainted you to be
loved by me. You cannot avoid it. Nay, I, if I would, cannot
cleanse you from it. But I would not, if I could. I have never
loved any woman before: my life has been too busy, my thoughts
too much absorbed with other things. Now I love, and will love.
But do not be afraid of too much expression on my part.” — 366 likes

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