The Stripping of the Altars by Eamon Duffy

Oct 02, 2007 Mir rated it really liked it · review of another edition

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This revisionist behemoth can be divided into two parts. The first and longer section outlines the characteristics of late medieval Catholicism, its defining ideas and practices. He examines this topic from the perspectives of both laity and clergy, using a variety of sources including, unusually, the material conditions of the churches themselves. If you don't know what a rood screen is and couldn't care less, this part may be slow going for you, but it is necessary to establish the foundations This revisionist behemoth can be divided into two parts. The first and longer section outlines the characteristics of late medieval Catholicism, its defining ideas and practices. He examines this topic from the perspectives of both laity and clergy, using a variety of sources including, unusually, the material conditions of the churches themselves. If you don't know what a rood screen is and couldn't care less, this part may be slow going for you, but it is necessary to establish the foundations for the point Duffy has been waiting hundreds of pages to make: late medieval Catholicism was vibrant. If that doesn't sound to you like a revolutionary argument that needs to be hidden two thirds of the way through a 700 page text, it is because the book came out almost two decades ago and the revisionist thesis has become a mainstream, although not dominant, historical position.

Before Duffy's groundbreaking work, the accepted explanation for the Reformation was the moribund corruption of the Catholic Church. Protestant historians, who traditionally dominated this subject, presented a picture of late medieval religion in which a hopelessly corrupt church cared nothing for its flock, who in turn resented or disliked the church and were apathetic about its teachings and practices. As soon as an alternative presented itself, the populace happily turned to the new sects to find more active and fulfilling spiritual lives.

In terms of material evidence, this simply wasn't the case. While the Church had plenty of flaws, especially higher in its hierarchy, on the local level it was very active and responsive to the needs of varying communities. Most people attended services with enthusiasm; even if they were not markedly pious, it was the main entertainment available, and priests and architects tried hard to make the experience of church attendance attractive and interesting. Even if congregants were not entirely happy with a particular pastor there is rarely evidence that they were dissatisfied with Catholicism per se. In fact, there is a mass of evidence in the form of wills* that English people had strong views on certain doctrines such as charity, prayer, and Purgatory.

Duffy is clearly not without his own biases, but this study served as an important corrective, and also reemphasized the value of both microstudies and solid, primary source evidence, both of which had been going out of style in favor of more theoretical approaches to history.

*Wills in this period were not mere lists of property but usually included confessions, statements of faith, exhortations to family members, and prayers. ...more

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Jul 21, 2011 Katie rated it really liked it · review of another edition

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Hugely, hugely detailed book that does a very nice job of critiquing what had been the prevailing viewpoint of the English Reformation: that medieval Catholicism had petered out, with disinterested clerics and semi-pagan peasants only revitalized by the influence of Protestant reform. It's an inaccurate way of looking at things (or at best oversimplified), and Duffy does a really nice job lining up piece after piece of evidence that suggests that medieval Catholicism wasn't worn out or despised ...more

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Sep 17, 2010 Tom Elrod rated it really liked it · review of another edition

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What an exhausting book. That's not a criticism, simply how I felt once getting through it. Duffy's central argument is reminiscent of Simpson, but whereas Simpson used rhetorical showmanship to support his points, Duffy drowns you in information. This is really good information, of course. It reads like an anthropological study of medieval english religion, really convincing you of the vitality and fascinating complexity of traditional religious belief. It'll be a great resource to return to.

Th ...more

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Apr 05, 2010 Chris rated it really liked it · review of another edition

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Eamon Duffy, The Stripping of the Altars: Traditional Religion in England c. 1400-1580. New Haven: Yale University Press, 2002.

In The Stripping of the Altars, Eamon Duffy lays down a formidable challenge to long-held notions of the Protestant Reformation in England. He upsets a conventional narrative, as old as the Reformation itself, which portrays the pre-Reformation church in England as spiritually lethargic or worse, and that the Protestant movement met a deep need in the English people whi Eamon Duffy, The Stripping of the Altars: Traditional Religion in England c. 1400-1580. New Haven: Yale University Press, 2002.

In The Stripping of the Altars, Eamon Duffy lays down a formidable challenge to long-held notions of the Protestant Reformation in England. He upsets a conventional narrative, as old as the Reformation itself, which portrays the pre-Reformation church in England as spiritually lethargic or worse, and that the Protestant movement met a deep need in the English people while also providing the Tudor monarchs with an opportunity to consolidate monarchial power. A. G. Dickens’ important 1964 survey, The English Reformation, inherited this perspective while shedding the blatant anti-Catholic tone that marred earlier formulations. Dickens’ work enjoyed two decades of hegemony. Christopher Haigh raised a revisionist challenge in 1975 that opened the way to new interpretations which gained momentum in the 1980s.(note 1) With the publication of The Stripping of the Altars, Duffy joins Haigh and becomes an important new revisionist voice in the study of the English Reformation. Whereas Haigh emphasized popular resistance to Protestant reform, Duffy offers a thick description of the church in late Medieval England, portraying it not as spiritually empty, but as a vibrant force in popular culture. Hence, the changes introduced by Protestantism—the “stripping of the altars”—actually quelled spiritual vitality.
Duffy divides his work into two parts. The first and most extensive is a portrait of popular spirituality on the eve of the Protestant Reformation. He describes a robust parish life in late Medieval England, hardly the spiritual doldrums that Protestants claimed it to be. Late Medieval Catholicism “exerted an enormously strong, diverse, and vigorous hold over the imagination and the loyalty of the people up to the very moment of Reformation” (p. 4) He shows this through many aspects of parish life. First, laypeople integrated seasonal liturgy with personal devotional gestures such as feasting, processions, and other forms of celebration—most notably, during Candlemas and Holy Week. “For townsmen and countrymen alike,” says Duffy, “the rhythms of the liturgy on the eve of the Reformation remained the rhythms of life itself” (p. 52). Second, laypeople invested themselves in catechesis: they funded and produced wall paintings and church furnishings, and they read liturgical and devotional books that circulated widely with the rise of print and literacy. These are among the means by which “the ploughman learned his paternoster.” Third, they celebrated the Mass—not merely as passive recipients, but actively, through sponsorship of special masses and imitating Mass liturgy in private devotions. Fourth, the laity devoted themselves to the saints. They celebrated saints’ days around the calendar, read hagiography, and infused their work and commerce with devotion to saints. Finally, their concern about death underlay an elaborate cult of intercession for the dead, including provision of Masses, alms, pilgrimage, and the adornment of churches and images.
Important to Duffy’s analysis is the public, communal character of religious devotion in late Medieval England. But because Reformation-centered narratives privilege a kind of piety that is individualistic and private, such narratives overlook the vibrant popular piety that abided in England at this time. If the late Medieval church was so vibrant, then how shall we explain the rise of Protestantism? Duffy takes up this question in Part Two, a narrative of liturgical changes in the English church during the Tudor monarchs, from Henry’s break with Rome through the Elizabethan period. “Radical Protestantism” made halting progress during Henry’s reign, fueled by Latimer’s preaching, vernacular services, and punctuated by outbursts of popular iconoclasm. King Henry acted cautiously against these impulses, emblemized by the Act of Six Articles that affirmed prayers for the dead. But radicalism took full flight in Edward’s reign, exemplified by the 1552 Book of Common Prayer and the removal from the churches of all plate and vestments that were unnecessary to the new, Spartan ceremonies of Protestantism. Duffy pores over parish inventories to document the “stripping of the altars”: the sale of chalices, copes, vestments, candlesticks and candle stands, and other liturgical bric-a-brac. He finds a complex story—of profit-seeking opportunists, traditionalists who hid and preserved sacred articles, and a few convinced Protestants who were pleased to see these objects of superstition go away. Against this backdrop, the Catholic reign of Mary was no violent, ill-informed lurch back to outmoded paths. To the contrary, in the main it was a measured and sensible traditionalist revival that sought to bring order to a chaotic situation, reeducate the people, and to restore familiar practices. The burning of heretics, while extreme, gave vent to popular traditionalism, even as the iconoclasm in the Henrician and Edwardian periods displayed popular radicalism. The Marian enterprise was showing signs of success when it was cut short by her death. (note 2) The Elizabethan episcopate marked an ultimate victory for Protestantism. But old habits died hard, and Duffy again uses inventories to reveal a persistent traditionalism in many parishes that clung to pre-Reformation forms. Ultimately, the Reformation succeeded by imposition from the top down: “the grip of the Tudor regime on the élites who governed the localities was strong enough to achieve its ends” (p. 579).
As a practicing Roman Catholic, Duffy’s sympathies clearly lie with the late Medieval forms of piety that the Tudors eradicated. His most recent writings display this perspective. (note 3) While Duffy is not shy about his own Catholic allegiance, it would be a mistake to dismiss his analysis as Catholic propaganda. His innovative use of sources is remarkable. He accesses lay experience through calendars, festivals, songs, popular devotions, print, and especially material culture (the book includes 141 plates!). Even Dickens acknowledged that evidence from material culture implied a widespread, energetic pre-Reformation faith in England, but he passed over it. (note 4) Given the cumulative weight of Duffy’s evidence—filling almost 400 pages of representative samples, to which more could probably be added—Dickens’ dismissive attitude is no longer tenable.
Duffy’s revisionist account invites new questions. First, if pre-Reformation spirituality was so vibrant, how do we account for popular participation in iconoclasm that, in some places, went farther than even what Cranmer desired? Not all iconoclasm followed official Tudor policy; in Duffy’s account, such holy violence came out of nowhere. While Duffy shows that Protestant polemicists misdiagnosed the English church as lost in darkness, he falls into the ditch on the other side of the road with his too-sunny alternative. Popular iconoclasm needs further study. Second, because the starting-point of Duffy’s narrative is a portrait of vitality, he tends to frame Protestant reform as removal of vital stuff, as deprivation—as though Protestants offered nothing to fill the void left by the stripping of the altars. At this point he unnecessarily retreats from conventional narratives, which acknowledge that Protestantism introduced a vitality of its own, at least in some quarters. Surely Anglican liturgists would never concede that The Book of Common Prayer has been culturally impotent, and rightly so. Perhaps some form of rapprochement is needed that draws from the best of the conventional and revisionist approaches. Such a formulation must certainly take into account Duffy’s outstanding portrait of late medieval piety and his rehabilitation of Mary.

NOTES

(note 1) Christopher Haigh, Reformation and Resistance in Tudor Lancashire (Cambridge University Press, 1975); see also Haigh’s (ed.) The English Reformation Revised (Cambridge University Press, 1987) and English Reformations: Religion, Politics, and Society under the Tudors (Oxford University Press, 1993).

(note 2) Duffy develops this perspective in his most recent work, a full-length treatment of Mary published just this week: Fires of Faith: Catholic England under Mary Tudor (New Haven: Yale University Press, 2009).

(note 3) See Duffy’s devotional writings, The Creed in the Catechism: The Life of God for Us (Burns and Oates, 2005), Faith of Our Fathers (Continuum, 2006), and Walking to Emmaus (Burns & Oates, 2006); and his popular history of the Popes, Saints and Sinners: A History of the Popes (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1997; 3rd ed. 2006).

(note 4) In his discussion of “Late Medieval Religion,” Dickens actually articulates one of Duffy’s central points. “…[N:]o reasonable observer would seek to deny that [conventional religion:] …could inspire lively art and craftsmanship. Despite the decline of glass-painting and a proliferation of mass-produced sculpture by ecclesiastical contractors, the great gothic tradition survived well into the reign of Henry VIII. During the half-century preceding the Reformation numerous splendid churches were still being built or extended. Parish guilds continued to flourish, funds were raised by church ales and other entertainments, devotional and secular life interpenetrated each other and, in a world which afforded the average man little indoor space and privacy, the churches were in a real sense the homes of the people.” Dickens, 9.

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Nov 17, 2015 Charity rated it really liked it · review of another edition

Very informative. Intense reading. Lots of details. Skimmed portions that had no relevance to my research but overall it was insightful in shedding light into middle ages Catholicism. The chapter on Mary I was particularly illuminating -- and went some little way in restoring her reputation.

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Apr 01, 2019 Ioseph Bonifacius (Ioannes) rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

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A book every person interested in the history of mankind should read, I heard many saying that it is a book that is very moving especially for a Catholic.

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Dec 26, 2008 Gustav Klimt rated it really liked it · review of another edition

A great and important book, but it would be nice if Mr. Duffy were quicker to own or acknowledge his biases. While it's certainly important to have a book that challenges the Whiggish orthodoxy (reformation=good, catholics=bad) of other Reformation histories, much of what Duffy and his predecessor Haigh havep produced has been helpfully problematized in recetn work by Peter Lake and others. ...more

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Nov 26, 2018 David Kenvyn rated it liked it · review of another edition

It is a long time since the first publication of “The Stripping of the Altars” and in that time it has become a classic account of the spirituality and religious practices of 15th century England.
On re-reading it, there is a nagging doubt in my mind. There is only passing reference to the political background in which this spirituality developed. In the period from 1399 to 1509, there were eight kings of England. Three of them were deposed and murdered (Richard II, Henry VI and Edward V). Two d It is a long time since the first publication of “The Stripping of the Altars” and in that time it has become a classic account of the spirituality and religious practices of 15th century England.
On re-reading it, there is a nagging doubt in my mind. There is only passing reference to the political background in which this spirituality developed. In the period from 1399 to 1509, there were eight kings of England. Three of them were deposed and murdered (Richard II, Henry VI and Edward V). Two died prematurely creating a succession crisis (Henry V and Edward IV). One of them was killed in battle (Richard III). Henry IV reigned from 1399 to 1413, having usurped the throne from his cousin, Richard II, and Henry VII reigned from 1485 to 1509 having killed his predecessor, Richard III, in battle. The fate of England was decided at major battles at Shrewsbury, Towton, Barnet, Tewkesbury and Bosworth. It was also a period that saw the final defeat of England in the 100 Years War. This was a period of political turmoil and it is hardly surprising that people turned to the consolation of religion. This is barely mentioned.
Two of the more extraordinary cults that developed during this period were those of Richard le Scrope, Archbishop of York, and of Henry VI. Archbishop Scrope was executed after taking part in a rebellion against Henry IV, and Henry VI was murdered after the Lancastrian defeat at the Battle of Tewkesbury. In both cases they became the objects of intercessory prayers, their help being requested to deal with specific problems. In both cases this happened when their political enemies held the monarchy. It may be that the north Yorkshire centre of the cult of Archbishop Scrope was too far away from royal authority, but the cult of Henry VI was centred on his birthplace, Windsor which is still one of the great royal centres of England. It does seem unlikely that Edward IV was unaware of the cult of his deposed and murdered predecessor. Exactly what this tells us about the bravery of the individuals concerned and the limitations on the power of the monarchy, I do not know. It is, however, certainly an interesting indication of the situation in fifteenth century England and, as spirituality develops in part from the situation in which people find themselves living, I expect some comment on this background. It is not there.
Another factor defining the development of spirituality in the fifteenth century was the Black Death. The worst ravages of the disease had taken place in the latter half of the fourteenth century, but it was endemic, and quite clearly a factor in the development of the religious approach to life. There are three mentions of the Black Death in the Index. Now it has to be said that it is probably not possible to quantify the effects of royal instability and the Black Death on the growth of spirituality in fifteenth century England. What Duffy produces is more than ample evidence that the spirituality of the time centred on the Crucifixion, not the Resurrection, on the wounds of Jesus and Mary standing at the foot of the cross, not the rolling away of the stone and the Assumption. It is a religiosity that is centred on pain and sacrifice and death, as the means of obtaining eternal life. It is a culture centred on Purgatory and indulgences as a means of escaping Purgatory. It saw prayer as a means not of approaching God, but of escaping punishment for sin. The question then becomes this: is this a culture that could withstand the onslaught of the proclamation of justification by faith alone?
What Duffy demonstrates is that in the pre-Reformation period there was a vibrant Christian culture in England based firmly around the liturgical year of the Church and the cult of death. Presumably the Black Death had concentrated minds on the latter because thousands upon thousands of people had died unprepared and, more importantly, unconfessed and unshriven. A whole culture developed around the idea that, to put it crudely, God could be bribed to forgive the dead for their sins. Primers and prayer books were published which stated quite clearly that the saying of so many Paternosters or Abe Marias or other suitable prayers would reduce the time of the departed in Purgatory. To be even more mercenary, the Church could be bought to say Masses for the souls of the dead. It was this kind of sordid transaction that earned the fury of Martin Luther and of his predecessors John Wycliffe in England and Jan Hus in Bohemia. [There is a well-documented connection between Wycliffe and Hus, possibly brought about through the marriage of Anne of Bohemia to Richard II]. The church authorities in England, under the guidance of Archbishop Arundell of Canterbury, responded be passing the act De Haeretico Comburendo (Of the burning of Heretics) through Parliament. Fortunately, only two or three dozen people met their deaths in this way, and the act went into abeyance until the reign of Queen Mary. This was possibly because the threat from Wycliffe’s followers, the Lollards, was not that great. In Bohemia the church authorities launched crusades against the Hussites, having burnt Hus to death, despite his safe conduct, at the Council of Constance. These crusades were defeated, and Bohemia became the first Protestant state. Duffy does not discuss this European dimension.
England however, as Duffy rightly points out, remained quietly and confidently Catholic until William Tyndale, copying the Lutheran example, translated the Bible into English. This merits two mentions in the whole book, including one in which it is stated that the Tyndale translation was made illegal. The fact that hundreds, if not thousands, of these bibles were smuggled into the country is glossed over. This was the beginning of the Reformation in England and it took place before the marital troubles (or rather succession difficulties) of Henry VIII came to a head. The essentially conservative king took the Byzantine view of the connection between the monarchy and the church, with the King as the Supreme Head. This, of course, led to the rejection of the role of the Papacy and that in turn led to the King seeking allies amongst those who would support the Royal Supremacy. Henry VIII was essentially cautious about embracing Protestant ideas.
There were two areas in which he definitely did so. First, saints like Thomas Becket who had supported the idea of the Papal supremacy against the power of the King became persona non grata, no longer to be venerated. This caused many churches where he was specially venerated, not least Canterbury Cathedral, some difficulty. Secondly, the King authorised the translation of the Bible into English, insisting, not necessarily successfully, on the introduction of the Myles Coverdale translation of the Bible to churches across the land. This was to be decisive because it introduced the concept of Holy Writ in a language as Cranmer put it in the 1549 Prayer Book “understanded of the people”.
What is significant, and Duffy does not discuss the reasons for this, is that the Catholic uprisings when they came were in remote areas of the country and did not threaten the centres of power. This is not to undermine the importance of the Pilgrimage of Grace, in the reign of Henry VIII, the Cornish uprising in the reign of Edward VI nor the Rising of the North in the reign of Elizabeth I. The latter, indeed, could have had very serious consequences if they had managed to release Mary, Queen of Scots and proclaim her as the rightful Queen of England. They did not. The Wyatt Rebellion in Kent, on the other hand, in the reign of Mary I came close to overthrowing the Queen.
What is interesting as Duffy demonstrates with a large number of examples is that, rather than destroy vestments, missal books etc following the instructions from Edward VI’s regency council, people hid them and when Mary I, an inveterate Catholic became Queen, they were brought out of their hiding places to be used again. Duffy does not make the analogy but it was like a country under occupation. People conformed outwardly to survive, but secretly they preserved what was banned.
Another interesting point is that there were no mass persecutions to death. There were high profile victims such as Sir Thomas More and Bishop John Fisher, but it was not until Mary I revived the statute De Haeretico Comburendo that hundreds of people went to the flames for their religious beliefs. This, of course, was recorded in detail in Foxe’s Book of Martyrs. It is hardly mentioned in Duffy. We hear a great deal about the attempts by Bishop Bonner and Cardinal Pole to reimpose Catholic orthodoxy. It would be interesting for their to have been some discussion of why they thought that the Fires of Smithfield, in Bonner’s own diocese, assisted with this process. Nor is there any discussion about how, when the Protestants returned from exile in Frankfurt and Geneva in the reign of Elizabeth I, that these fires coloured their actions when, in turn, they reimposed Protestant orthodoxy on the Church of England.
Despite all these criticisms, Duffy has written an important book. The Church in the reign of Henry VII was not moribund. The introduction of printing had led to the blossoming of the availability of primers, prayer books, books of hours, lives of the saints and many other religious works. Many of these were printed in English, and some in English and Latin. I do not know enough about the life of Tyndale, but I can only wonder if the availability of prayers in English, based on Biblical texts, set him on the dangerous path of translating the Bible into English. Archbishop Arundell, back at the start of the 15th century, had persuaded Parliament to make this illegal, and to condemn it as heresy.
It seems to me that it was the work of Tyndale and Coverdale in translating the Bible into English that was the key factor in the transformation of the religious life of 16th century England. It was significant that, when the Rising of the North took place in 1569, the leaders ordered the burning of English bibles, as Duffy notes, and that their followers refused to do it. As with the vestments and missal books in the reign of Edward VI, English language bibles were hidden. By then, they had been in use in churches for 30 or more years. They had become part of the religious fabric of England.
Duffy is right. Religious practice cannot be changed by decree. It is embedded in the hearts and minds of ordinary people. If Elizabeth I had died of smallpox and Mary, Queen of Scots, had succeeded to the throne, we do not know what would have happened. Elizabeth’s longevity was an important factor in deciding the religious life of England, but in my view, it was the translation of the Bible into English that was decisive

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Feb 21, 2020 David Bruyn rated it liked it

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Toooooo much information. But the thesis is undeniably proven: medieval English Christianity was healthy, robust, and affected every nook and cranny of life.

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Jun 13, 2018 Patricia Finney rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

First he rebuilds for us the way the English Medieval churches worked, packed tight with altars, figures of saints, rich reliquaries (caskets) for alleged saints' bones and teeth, elaborate roodscreens to hide the high altar, paintings and jewelled and embroidered banners. Churches must have looked like the Room of Requirement at Hogwarts!

Each of the astonishing number of sacred things had its use and meaning, its symbolism and its story, now mostly forgotten. Many of them were "apotropaic" - a First he rebuilds for us the way the English Medieval churches worked, packed tight with altars, figures of saints, rich reliquaries (caskets) for alleged saints' bones and teeth, elaborate roodscreens to hide the high altar, paintings and jewelled and embroidered banners. Churches must have looked like the Room of Requirement at Hogwarts!

Each of the astonishing number of sacred things had its use and meaning, its symbolism and its story, now mostly forgotten. Many of them were "apotropaic" - a word I had to look up which means "supposedly having the power to avert evil influences or bad luck." [Oxford dictionary].

As literacy increased with the beginning of the 16th century, innumerable manuscript and later printed primers helped people to navigate the sacred, with their Paternosters (Our Father), Aves (Hail Mary), Credos (Creed) and Offices and their saints' stories. The rubrics explained exactly how many days or years you, or the dead person you were praying for, would be let off from Purgatory if you prayed the Fifteen Oes or the Little Office of the Virgin. But you didn't have to be able to read to understand it all because everything was actually designed to make the stories accessible to the illiterate.

There were multiple priests saying masses in the churches most days. Attached to each parish were many laypeople's gilds that took responsibility for buying wax candles for the altars, to put around the saints' statues, to light the dead. The gilds acted out mystery plays so that the illiterate ordinary folk would know the vital stories, collected money to buy handsome black velvet vestments for requiem masses and to send members on pilgrimage to holy places like Canterbury and Walsingham.

Every Medieval church was the centre of a busy social and economic world available to and involving the rich, middling and poor of every village, town and city. For example, most places had a Maidens Gild of young unmarried women who bought candles for the Lady altar. It was a world that gave everyone a defence against the Devil in holy water, sacred images and prayers.

Of course, 90% of it had no foundation at all in the Bible, and some of the saints had started as pagan gods and goddesses. Famously there were enough relics of Splinters of the True Cross in Medieval Europe to build a fleet of ships.

Then along came the English Reformation and, in less than thirty years, swept it all away: the saints, the altars, the banners, replacing them with... The Word. Unadorned English words, a communion table, a Bible.

Iconoclasm and greed destroyed the saints and paintings, the banners and vestments, the gold chalices and patens and pyxes, and disbanded the lay associations that had kept it all running. The reformers were seldom happy because their swingeing reforms never went far enough for them. They simply could not understand why people would hide statues of saints in their attics and baptismal fonts in their fields.

The ordinary people probably weren't happy either, deprived of their exciting processions and calming rosaries, but nobody asked them. Now they had to stand and listen to endless words of English scripture and homilies, in churches stripped of everything that made them friendly and beautiful. Only a few candles were left on the communion table and all the music was obsolete.

Of course, rationally I can understand the reformers' urge to get rid of the thousand years of superstitious accretion around the Bible, though I wonder if they realised just how radical and revolutionary the newly available New Testament was.

Speaking irrationally, like Eamon Duffy, I too can remember when the Catholic church also fell prey to reformers after the Second Vatican Council, who changed the Mass from Latin to ugly bad English and stripped out many saints and festivals while failing to reform the church's attitude to women, for example. At least, unlike the 16th century reformers, they didn't indulge in self-righteous destruction and wholesale theft

But to lose so many stories and the familiar Latin Mass was an emotional shock that I still remember. In fact, as I read the closing words of Duffy's masterly account, I had tears in my eyes. ...more

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Sep 30, 2017 Paul rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

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Incredible history of the Faith "on the ground" as if were, in medieval England. Dense at times; there's so much going on! ...more

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Jul 20, 2009 Roger Burk rated it really liked it · review of another edition

The reader is buried under every possible piece of evidence that medieval Catholicism was vibrant and beloved among the rural English through the 1530s, and they were puzzled and dismayed when the enforcers from London showed up and told them that their beloved images, relics, masses, and ceremonies must all go. The evidence comes from wills, charters, popular books, commonplace books, and so forth. It is all not quite totally convincing. Certainly the English Reformation came from an urban inte The reader is buried under every possible piece of evidence that medieval Catholicism was vibrant and beloved among the rural English through the 1530s, and they were puzzled and dismayed when the enforcers from London showed up and told them that their beloved images, relics, masses, and ceremonies must all go. The evidence comes from wills, charters, popular books, commonplace books, and so forth. It is all not quite totally convincing. Certainly the English Reformation came from an urban intellectual vanguard, and was unwelcome by some people in some places. However, the large number of individual examples shown can't prove the thesis that the people were overwhelmingly against the change. The description of late medieval piety makes it painfully clear that there had been an accumulation of abuses unworthy of the Gospel--endlessly repeated prayers that were no better than incantations, holy relics treated as magical talismans or lent out by monasteries to cure various ills, agricultural offerings left before images like a pagan idol, hordes of priests without pastoral duties or indeed ability, created only for the endless repetition of masses for souls in Purgatory. There could never be enough prayers for those in Purgatory--how could you ever know how much was enough? If this was beloved by some, it was surely cordially disliked by others. I think some such popular feeling is required to explain the quickness and thoroughness with which decrees from London were general carried out (though with many exceptions, as Duffy enumerates at great length). Of course, Queen Mary's decrees re-establishing a reformed Catholicism were also generally obeyed--but the habit of obedience had been formed, and Mary sent dissenters to the stake. Then there were often delays getting rid of the Catholic paraphernalia after the accession of Elizabeth I, but perhaps some of this was hedging against another change of regime--the parishes had suffered great loss when they got rid of Catholic chalices and so forth under Edward VI and were forced to repurchase them under Mary. It's notable that will prefaces changed form under Edward, no longer including distinctively Catholic formulations, and never changed back. Duffy attributes this to prudence, but why be prudent in a solemn and personal declaration of belief? There's no example of a will being set aside because of a politically incorrect preface. ...more

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Aug 06, 2020 Vegetable Person rated it really liked it · review of another edition

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May 16, 2018 George McCombe rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

Shelves: british-history, church-history, catholic-church, religion

While the United Kingdom is these days Protestant in name only, centuries of ingrained anti-Catholicism continues to leave a profound mark in many aspects of its culture, not least the mainstream perception of England’s separation from Rome at the Reformation. While there has always been a dissenting minority who challenged the established view, the myth of a glorious Reformation freeing shackled Englishmen from the yoke of Roman tyranny and superstition has survived for a very long time without While the United Kingdom is these days Protestant in name only, centuries of ingrained anti-Catholicism continues to leave a profound mark in many aspects of its culture, not least the mainstream perception of England’s separation from Rome at the Reformation. While there has always been a dissenting minority who challenged the established view, the myth of a glorious Reformation freeing shackled Englishmen from the yoke of Roman tyranny and superstition has survived for a very long time without serious opposition. Thankfully this is starting to change, and much of this is due to the exceptional research put forward by Prof Eamon Duffy , particularly within the pages of this monumental study of the English Church at the time of the Reformation.

Is it the case that English Christians festered under Roman rule? Is it the case that English Christians felt burdened rather than uplifted by the ecclesiastical structure which provided seasons, feasts, fasts and a ready ritual to almost any and every aspect of one’s life? Is it the case that English Christians longed for the day when they would be freed from notions of Purgatory, prayers for the dead, Masses and devotion to the Saints? The established view is that they were. As far as Duffy is concerned, this view is pure fantasy. Such revolutionary aspirations may have existed among a subsection of the elite and a minuscule collection of radicals, but for the vast majority of English people, the prevailing view was one of contentment with the existing Church system. Far from being resented or opposed, English Catholicism was embraced for providing structure, meaning and occasion. Far from a church being governed by iron-rod wielding clergy, Duffy presents a nation of laity firmly attached to the parish system, and indeed exercising a great deal of control over its management. Immense pride was taken in all things from memorized prayers, to decorated Altars, shrines and icons, all representing the piety and devotion of the people. Duffy focuses a great deal of effort into revising the pre-Reformation approach to the Sacraments, particularly the Mass. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass--the foundation of the liturgical and spiritual life of the Church--was not merely ‘observed’ by a passive congregation, but, like all Sacraments, was actively participated in through the faith and devotion of the laity. Ingrained pious practices were dear to the people, particularly devotion to individual Saints, as well as the much derided ‘cult of the dead’ (the system of praying for the souls in Purgatory, and knowing that people would be praying for your soul after your own death), which provided comfort for an often precarious existence. The Catholic Church in pre-Reformation England was a Church that was intertwined in the lives of ordinary English people, and existed only due to the support and dedication of these people.

The Reformation was not, therefore, a deliverance from an unpopular system, but was rather the imposition of an alien faith that ruptured the traditional religious practices in England, and which left a deep void in the collective spirituality of the nation.

‘The Stripping of the Altars’ is a masterpiece in legitimate historical revisionism, and should be read by any who wishes to accurately understand the religious transformation in England during the Reformation. ...more

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Oct 02, 2012 Christopher rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

Eamon Duffy’s The Stripping of the Altars is a monumental work of revisionist history, which challenges the orthodox Whig interpretation of the English Reformation. The Whig interpretation of the Protestant Reformation in England sees the coming of the Reformation as a another progressive step in history, one that brought the English church --stagnant and mired in archaic Catholic superstition-- into a fulfilling, modern, and progressive protestant era. True to the Whig interpretation, this view Eamon Duffy’s The Stripping of the Altars is a monumental work of revisionist history, which challenges the orthodox Whig interpretation of the English Reformation. The Whig interpretation of the Protestant Reformation in England sees the coming of the Reformation as a another progressive step in history, one that brought the English church --stagnant and mired in archaic Catholic superstition-- into a fulfilling, modern, and progressive protestant era. True to the Whig interpretation, this view sees the break from Catholic superstition as another step in the epochal march of British democracy. Duffy rails against the idea that the late medieval Catholic Church failed to properly minister to the laity, thus producing a class of churchgoers which merely ran through the motions, having no real interest in the rituals of the Church. He attempts, and I would say quite well, to illustrate that the English laity was immensely invested in the life of the parish, its liturgy, prayers, festivals, and held deeply serious beliefs concerning the Church’s doctrines. He successfully portrays English Catholicism as a dynamic and vibrant force which was constantly in the process of adapting to the changing needs of the laity. While The Stripping the Altars is a rather polemical work, which has no doubt rankled a few Whig Protestants, it makes up for any ideological vitriol it might posses with mountains of well laid out evidence.
Duffy has produced a remarkably well argued and researched work of historical scholarship which, nevertheless, leaves the reader with questions that demand answering. If Catholic beliefs were so deeply and strongly held by the commons and aristocracy alike, why was the Tudor state able to destroy the English church? Why did so many English Catholics choose the path of least resistance? Regardless of the very large questions I was left with, I found this to be a compelling and well written book. It paints a vivid picture of late medieval religious life and definitely throws down the gauntlet, reopening a discussion about the nature of the English Reformation.
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May 06, 2017 Justin Evans rated it really liked it · review of another edition

Shelves: history-etc

Duffy expresses surprise that this became a best-seller, and no shit: this is some detailed, historiographically-conscious, "I'm going to assume you know all the main events" stuff. It's also gloriously interesting, and surprisingly readable. ...more

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Feb 09, 2016 Lauren rated it it was ok · review of another edition

Although scholarship at the time had focused on Catholicism as a weakening religion within England, merely requiring a catalyst, Duffy argues that it was an important and powerful part of daily life before the Reformation. This argument rejects the notion that the English Reformation was inevitable, instead seeing it as a movement imposed from above by the English crown.

Aspects of Duffy's book is unconvincing (mainly because of his obvious bias), but ultimately it is largely convincing - at leas ...more

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Nov 23, 2016 J. Alfred rated it really liked it · review of another edition

This is a really massive work of historical scholarship. Duffy examines seemingly every extant document from the late-medieval/ early modern period to provide a charitable, textured look at "Traditional Religion" (that is, Roman Catholicism) in England before and in the generation or so after Henry's split. This will make you more knowledgeable about the world, and indeed about human nature. It will also give you a bunch of historical trivia, and as a physical object can be used to, among other ...more

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Aug 22, 2020 Ilya rated it it was amazing

This mammoth of a book is often labeled as a “revisionist” history, which is a meaningless shorthand unless one knows the subject under revision. That subject is the notion that, on the eve of the English Reformation, Catholicism was a spent force, a hodgepodge of superstition and clerical corruption. In this view, Reformation could not come fast enough to this world of incomprehensible prayers in a language unknown to the vast majority of the people; of idolatrous worship and veneration of imag This mammoth of a book is often labeled as a “revisionist” history, which is a meaningless shorthand unless one knows the subject under revision. That subject is the notion that, on the eve of the English Reformation, Catholicism was a spent force, a hodgepodge of superstition and clerical corruption. In this view, Reformation could not come fast enough to this world of incomprehensible prayers in a language unknown to the vast majority of the people; of idolatrous worship and veneration of images; of a venal trade in indulgences; of a separation between clerical and lay pieties, between devotions affordable for the rich and merely accessible for the poor. Duffy dismantles this view. For him, late medieval Catholicism in England was a vibrant, coherent set of communal beliefs and practices, largely shared by the elites and the common folk alike.

The scholarship is staggering in scope and detail; at times, it is exhausting. Indeed, the first half of the work is a veritable encyclopedia of medieval Catholicism. In some places, it reads like a tour guide to every parish church in England; in others, it undertakes a thoroughgoing survey of wills and churchwarden accounts; elsewhere, it describes contemporary primers and other devotional materials. At every step, however, Duffy offers a fierce, unremitting apology for the lay devotional practices his sources describe.

So compelling, so rich is this account, it has the effect of enlisting one as a fervent partisan of the world in which these practices flourished. In that world, Duffy argues, both the upper classes and the simpler folk believed in the same things, they participated in the same communal rites, they drew on -- regardless of their literacy -- the same religious literature, and they expressed their piety in similar ways. As their wills attest, their means might have been different, but the concerns were often very much alike.

Especially when it came to death. How to die properly was perhaps the main preoccupation of late medieval piety -- as, of course, it had to be when one considers how much depended on it. At a minimum, one had to die in communion, but for any "even cristen" that was only the beginning. Those spared eternal damnation still had to endure the pains of Purgatory, and to do so for unknown lengths of time. Still, the ordeal could be shortened, if not altogether bypassed, through the intercession of the Virgin, the saints or the diligent prayers of the survivors. Winning that intercession was the goal of the ars moriendi, or the doctrine of proper death, and it was an endeavor that claimed the energies, the thoughts and the resources of countless men and women, no matter their rank, wealth or education.

It was the reason that gilds, by pooling the resources of their members, endowed chantries where Masses could be sung for their dead. It was the reason why even the poorest among the parishioners left money for wax to be used as light before the image of their patron saint, or why the household items, no matter how cherished in life, were left to be repurposed for church service.

But it was not only about commuting time in Purgatory. Rather, this much-derided "cult of the dead" reflected a common understanding that death is the one truly lonely experience, as well as an equally common fear that the living may not do a good job of remembering their dead. An institution of a Mass or a bequest of household linen were not merely about ensuring swift transit through Purgatory; they were also about retaining a connection, however tenuous, to the community where one had lived the life about to run out.

Duffy renders this world with so much affection and so little interest in even-handedness, that the omissions in his account — chiefly, the structural problems of the indulgence economy — seem beside the point. His concern is not with those structural issues; it is with the libel of “superstition” thrown at people who, even at their most superstitious, simply did their level best to interpret and reinterpret what was nothing less than the official teaching of their church. Besides, the very history of the Reformation in England, with its progress and reversals, seems to speak quite clearly that today’s superstition is yesterday’s dogma. And vice versa.

In any event, by the time Duffy gets to the relatively vegetarian Henrician settlement, and then the brutal acceleration of reform under Edward VI, it becomes impossible not to lament the wholesale destruction and the systematic erasure of the culture he so lovingly portrayed — to not rue the whitewashed rood screens, the defaced images of the saints, the stripped altars. ...more

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Sep 11, 2016 Rebecca rated it really liked it · review of another edition

A vibrant, passionate account of pre-Reformation Catholicism. A wonderful tour de force of 'revisionist' counter-Whig Reformation history, although I know Duffy opposes the term! Duffy movingly captures the splendour of traditionalist religion before the 1530s break wit Rome, and conveys the cataclysmic impact of the fundamental religious changes in the following decades, affecting the treasured traditions and rituals of an entire nation.

The introduction lays bare Duffy's aims, including his bol ...more

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Sep 18, 2019 Shaun rated it liked it · review of another edition

I will admit that I had to heavily skim this one to get through it in a timely manner, but I feel that Duffy puts his argument out enough times in prominent places that I have understood much of what the book is trying to say.

Duffy's book is a elegiac piece of historical writing that attempts to recapture the spirit and historical fact of "traditional religion" in England. The traditional religion here is to me a bit misleading, as it asserts a primacy of Christian religion in the isles, even a I will admit that I had to heavily skim this one to get through it in a timely manner, but I feel that Duffy puts his argument out enough times in prominent places that I have understood much of what the book is trying to say.

Duffy's book is a elegiac piece of historical writing that attempts to recapture the spirit and historical fact of "traditional religion" in England. The traditional religion here is to me a bit misleading, as it asserts a primacy of Christian religion in the isles, even as paganistic religions existed as a more "traditional" form. Mainly, the traditional religion to which Duffy refers is Catholicism before and during the Reformation, with some digressions as to the strict definitions of Catholic belief. He is attempting to reconstruct a world of mystery and tradition that many writers of religious history miss in late medieval/Reformation England. Often, as Duffy asserts, historians see the time before the Reformation as a weakening of the Catholic hold on English lay people. In addition, it was widely believed that religion was not practiced in the same way by lay aristocratic people as it was by lay peasants and merchant class people. Duffy dismantles these commonly held gems of academic knowledge and demonstrates effectively that late medieval Catholic religion was in fact practiced by all in the community and served an important performative, social, and personal role in the lives of people.

Duffy takes a deep dive into the individual practices of Catholic England, and demonstrates effectively, if often tediously, the pervasiveness of religion in the lives of everyday people. Duffy tackles religious primers, offerings, death rites and wills, and all sorts of other religious images to illustrate how all-encompassing the religious experience of the late medieval world was. Often I feel Duffy is simply pushing a counter-narrative rather than fully interrogating the other historians he is disputing. Often Duffy will toss aside an assertion by saying "It should not be overestimated". The views he presents are somewhat totalizing, and often leads to a strong sense of historical bias. The book is certainly important and Duffy presents his case compellingly, but the writing is less balanced than I would like.

The book does eventually turn to the "stripping of the altars" of the Reformation. The book then shows how much (sometimes it was not much as all) resistance to these changes by Henry VIII and his court actually occurred. Often, Duffy points out, people were unwilling to give up the religion they had cherished for their whole lives, and were eager to restore their traditional practices once Mary came to to power. The march towards a Protestant England is restored in the end by Queen Elizabeth, and Duffy takes this as a moment to write poignantly about what has been lost. This shows his hand a bit, and reveals he might be writing from a less than historically neutral place, but overall I felt his interpretation of much of the evidence was largely objective. Some of the analysis slanted towards a highly pro-Catholic rhetoric, but otherwise the book presents a comprehensive understanding of Pre-Reformation England.

The book is comprehensive and oftentimes very difficult to read through because of this. Duffy has a plurality of examples for each phenomena he describes, and writes thoroughly through each piece of evidence. He necessarily uses a wide range of textual and artistic sources to prove his point, and because of this gives a varied and textured account of the history. However, as a nonspecialist, I found the thoroughness often very difficult to engage with. Overall, the book was informative, and presents a strongly differing opinion than my own about the religious practices of the period. It has informed a newish perspective because of this, but overall the book was just fine for me. ...more

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Jan 04, 2021 Michael Bully rated it really liked it · review of another edition

Certainly a classic work in looking at the The Reformation in England. The author tries to build a case to show that the late medieval Church was popular, woven into the fabric of people's lives and its devotions showed regard for the weak and the poor. The Church was engaging well with the rise of printing, new religious literature appearing. The Reformation is presented as an ongoing process starting with Henry VIII, but becoming more strident under the reign of Edward IV , then triumphing und Certainly a classic work in looking at the The Reformation in England. The author tries to build a case to show that the late medieval Church was popular, woven into the fabric of people's lives and its devotions showed regard for the weak and the poor. The Church was engaging well with the rise of printing, new religious literature appearing. The Reformation is presented as an ongoing process starting with Henry VIII, but becoming more strident under the reign of Edward IV , then triumphing under the reign of Elizabeth. The brief return to Catholicism under the reign of Mary 1553-1555 is shown as being a move which certainly appealed to many English people. In other words The Reformation is cast as a move that was essentially unpopular and imposed from above, not as a welcome relief from a decadent and corrupt church.
The book is very thorough, wills, church warden accounts, devotional literature, visual art, are among the source material used. Religious practices in many different towns and regions are mentioned. And this is a long book, probably not to be read as a basic introduction to the English Reformation. And has emerged as a leading text in defence of the Late Medieval church.
But many issues arise. A Protestant , who opposes the religious practices such as the intercession of saints, the veneration of relics, and prayers for souls in purgatory, will probably not be won over by arguments that these beliefs were popular and part of the culture. Those who find Medieval Catholicism repressive are unlikely to be convinced ....the author's understating of the persecution of heretics during the reign of Mary I , do not help his case.
One criticism has been made is that the book says little about religious houses, and groups like the friars. Virtually nothing about the role of the pardoner and the summoner , who of course appear in Chaucer. The use of source material can be questioned. The author draws on 'The Book of Margery Kemp' without mentioning that there is so little evidence that this work was actually read or even circulated at the time of its creation.
But this book has made a significant contribution to the ongoing debate surrounding the English Reformation . And deserves to be read.

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May 08, 2018 Richard Morrison rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

Eamon Duffy's definitive history of the state of Catholic worship in England in Tudor times has cultivated a large following since the first edition was published in 1992. Originally intended to refute the widespread belief that traditional religion was spiritually exhausted and unpopular with the ordinary people in England at the time of the Henrician Reformation, the only reason that its thesis is arguably less compelling today is that it has tilted the entire landscape of historical scholarsh Eamon Duffy's definitive history of the state of Catholic worship in England in Tudor times has cultivated a large following since the first edition was published in 1992. Originally intended to refute the widespread belief that traditional religion was spiritually exhausted and unpopular with the ordinary people in England at the time of the Henrician Reformation, the only reason that its thesis is arguably less compelling today is that it has tilted the entire landscape of historical scholarship in its direction over the last quarter century.

Duffy carefully examines a large range of 15th and 16th Century documents to show how the traditional liturgies and practices of Catholic England were, in fact, closely observed and jealously defended by the majority of the population, even as a largely alien, elite intellectual strain of Protestantism gained political power (and faced some reversals) from the time of Henry VIII through the reigns of his three children: Edward, Mary, and Elizabeth. The book contains fascinating lessons teased out from the phrasing of wills, parish registers, letters, and records of episcopal visitations, and presents carefully-reasoned corrections to competing interpretations by previous generations of scholars.

This is a detailed and exhaustively-researched study that rewards attentive reading. Because of its length (approx 600 pages) and rigor, however, it's not recommended for someone looking for a beach read. If you watched "The Tudors" mostly to see Jonathan Rhys Meyers with his shirt off, it might prove insufficiently engaging. If you were fascinated by the machinations of vicegerent in spirituals Thomas Cromwell while reading Hilary Mantel's "Wolf Hall" and "Bring Up the Bodies," however, it might be just the thing. One final warning: Duffy quotes many passages from period documents, almost none of which are presented with modernized spelling, so be prepared for passages like "Moche people...go nyghe and about the aulter and stond so nyghe the aulter that they trouble oftimes the preest for the dissolucions that they doo in spekyng in lawhing." ...more

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Jul 11, 2018 Cecilie Larsen rated it did not like it · review of another edition

Shelves: did-not-finish, non-fiction

To start off, you're expected to be able to read Middle English and possibly a few latin words. There's a lot of old English quotes used to make certain point and if you can't read them you lose out.

You really have to have some (somewhat thorough) knowledge of general Christians rituals and terms to understand what is going on most of the time. I though I did, but apparently not, and as so I was lost through most of the lengthy descriptions of rituals and traditions. Were this a book about medie To start off, you're expected to be able to read Middle English and possibly a few latin words. There's a lot of old English quotes used to make certain point and if you can't read them you lose out.

You really have to have some (somewhat thorough) knowledge of general Christians rituals and terms to understand what is going on most of the time. I though I did, but apparently not, and as so I was lost through most of the lengthy descriptions of rituals and traditions. Were this a book about medieval Catholic ceremonies it would have fulfilled its purpose, but as it's not, but rather trying to make the point that Catholicism wasn't unpopular and 'on its last leg' before the Reformation stirred things up, many pasages could have been cut for space (the book is a brick).
It would probably also had helped to make the points more clear. As it is they get lost and seems particularly vague. the author describes things a lot and you just keep wondering where its leading, why it's relevant, will there be a point?
he claims he wanted an overview of traditional religion before the Reformation, but he keeps giving the reader individual stories and then makes general remarks based on these 2-3 stories and we don't actually get to know why they're representative most of the time.

It's not just the lack of clear points and general direction (which is present in the introduction and the just vanishes) it's also an overall lack of structure. There are subheadings but they make no sense - they are just inserted in the middle of the text and it's clear that the text was meant to be coherent and not divided by headings. it's very clear when a new section are started with "but" or however" but it also shows in other ways that the text wasn't meant to be divided and seems like a sloppy last minut attempt to do so because your teacher told you it had to have subsections and you just put some in randomly w/out making any changes in the text.

This structure and vagueness can make the reader feel lost. While there is some interesting assertions, you don't now were any of it is leading and nothing really sticks. ...more

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Mar 30, 2018 Andrew rated it liked it

The English Reformation is surely a pivotal moment in world history, but it is a challenging one to understand and appreciate. Source material is dense, historians have chewed over the period for centuries, and it is easy to simplify enormous transformations to epitaphs of "Bloody Mary" and Henry VIII and his wives. Thankfully, Duffy is an articulate and exhaustive historian, and his book is the same, providing a solid inspection of the religious practices and cultural transformations (or lack t ...more

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Jul 19, 2019 Ellie rated it really liked it · review of another edition

Shelves: reviewed, non-fiction, theology, history, christianity, library-books

A quote on the back cover of my copy says this is "one of those books that comes along once in a generation" and, unusually, this isn't particularly hyperbolic.

This work IS magisterial, and fascinating, and eminently readable even to those with no official scholarly background, and just personal interest in the subject. Duffy has a real gift with words and with painting such vivid pictures of past religious experiences and expressions. I admit that I have always been led to believe that pre-Ref ...more

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Sep 07, 2017 Jordan rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

Shelves: buy

The English speaking world is unconsciously biased toward a Protestant reading of history due to the Anglican schism's success in supplanting Catholicism in England. However, this thorough study shows the vibrancy of English Catholicism prior to Henry VIII's hunt for an heir. This translated into difficulty, reversals and moderation of reforms over the reigns of Henry, Edward, Mary and Elizabeth. The insights into state coercion and financial implications in determining the religious makeup of E ...more

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Mar 17, 2018 Scott rated it it was amazing · review of another edition

Shelves: christianity

Duffy combines jaw-dropping scholarship with a very readable style, This book challenged much of what I thought I knew about the English Reformation and the popular Catholicism it displaced.

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Jan 01, 2019 Joseph Sverker rated it really liked it · review of another edition

Shelves: history-stuff, theology

Great book, changes much of my view on pre-reformation England.

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Jul 22, 2019 Whiskey added it · review of another edition

Duffy uses original documents to explore what it meant to ordinary Englishmen and Englishwomen when Henry VII's Reformation swept away the Church they loved.
...more

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