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Principiantes

4.21  ·  Rating details ·  1,350 Ratings  ·  141 Reviews
Beginners contains Carver's original manuscripts for his classic short-story collection, What We Talk About When We Talk About Love, which his ruthless editor, Gordon Lish, reduced by more than 50 per cent before publication. Fascinating, with some stories weighted entirely differently, the original texts reveal Carver to be a more humane writer than he is usually credited ...more
Paperback, 312 pages
Published May 2010 by Editorial Anagrama (first published 2009)
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Orsodimondo
Jun 29, 2012 rated it it was amazing  ·  review of another edition
Shelves: americana, racconti
MAN ON WIRE
Si vedono cinque stelle, ma è un’illusione: in realtà, qui sopra, c’è il firmamento intero.

Ho letto e riletto questi racconti nel corso degli anni, alcuni anche tre o quattro volte, e ho ritrovato sempre, intero e intatto, l’incanto.
In versione editata oppure originale, small size o full size, strada o gran turismo, naked o con optional, Carver rimane un maestro. Il maestro del racconto.
Di quanti si potrebbe dire la stessa cosa?
Mezzo rigo e sei già dentro la storia; dialoghi inarriva
...more
Luca Ambrosino
Apr 29, 2016 rated it really liked it  ·  review of another edition
English (Beginners) / Italiano

«A man without hands came to the door to sell me a photograph of my house»

Yes, the protagonist of "Viewfinder", one of the shortest novel of this collection, has two hooks for hands. And the first edition of this collection of novels suffered the same fate of those amputations: dramatically reduced by Carver's editor, Gordon Lish. Probably Lish's intention was to ride the wave of minimalism that was popular those days. But this is frowned upon by Carver:

«I don't lik
...more
Cecily
This is the original versions of the stories that were first published as "What We Talk About When We Talk About Love", which I reread alongside this and reviewed HERE.

Differences: Edited and Unedited

Some of the versions here are more than double the length, and most of them are darker and with more ambiguous endings.

I would like to believe that Carver's words were butchered by an over-zealous editor, and many say that is the case, but I'm not sure that's entirely true. The two versions of each
...more
Marcello S
Mar 18, 2017 rated it it was amazing  ·  review of another edition
Empatia, densità e tensione narrativa.
In Principianti - versione originale e più generosa di Di cosa parliamo quando parliamo d’amore - ci sono almeno 5 o 6 tra i racconti più belli che io abbia mai letto [82/100]

Perché non ballate? ✖✖✖
Mirino ✖✖✖✖✖
Che fine hanno fatto tutti? ✖✖✖✖✖
Gazebo ✖✖✖
La vuoi vedere una cosa? ✖✖✖
L’avventura ✖✖✖✖✖
Una cosa piccola ma buona ✖✖✖✖✖
Di’ alle donne che usciamo ✖✖✖
Se così ti piace ✖✖✖✖
Con tanta di quell’acqua a due passi da casa ✖✖✖✖✖
Dummy ✖✖✖✖✖
La torta ✖✖✖
La calma
...more
Carmine
Apr 14, 2017 rated it really liked it  ·  review of another edition
Principianti sino alla fine

Alla fine siamo tutti un po' Carver.
Quando un bicchiere tira l'altro, lo sguardo si fa sfocato e le pareti incominciano a oscillare, la mente corre verso lidi inesplorati e plasma nuovi orizzonti da raggiungere.
Ma, nel correre via, non si va mai così lontano come si vorrebbe.
La realtà ci raccoglie dal tombino dove abbiamo sboccato l'anima, ci rimette in piedi e ammanta la nostra esistenza del noioso grigiore dei compromessi da accettare; degli amori sfioriti e tentat
...more
Ben Winch
First up, it's ridiculous to contrast this unfavourably with What We Talk About When We Talk About Love. These are first drafts - of course they're going to seem unfinished! Secondly, personally I've never bought the line that What We Talk About... was Carver's best book - to me it always seemed the most frustrating. Thirdly, I've read some stories by Gordon Lish - the editor of What We Talk About... - and I wasn't impressed. Glib and cynical, just like the worst of his reworkings of Carver. So ...more
Joni
Mar 31, 2018 rated it it was amazing  ·  review of another edition
Un placer gigante este libro, lleno de momentos que calan hondo, relatos que son fotografías vivas, historias de personas simples llenas de dolor y frustración sin relegar el instinto de supervivencia. Me es imposible señalar uno en particular, todos tienen algo emotivo y llegan a tocar la fibra mas sensible. Celebro estas muestras de como la literatura sin valerse de rebuscados recursos técnicos ni un vocabulario amplio es capaz de lograr tal ensalada de sentimientos.
Zdravko
Aug 06, 2017 rated it really liked it  ·  review of another edition
Vrlo dobra zbirka, napokon ugledala svjetlo dana u izvornom obliku 2009 godine nakon što je poprilično unakažena od strane urednika davne 1981 pod naslovom "O čemu govorimo kad govorimo o ljubavi". Ako mislite da je okosnica ovih priča ljubav, malo ćete biti razočarani jer je popriličan dio i o piću (razumljivo, jer je Carver bio alkoholičar). Ponekad mi stvarno nije jasno što je to s velikim američkim književnicima i cugom. Od Hemingwaya preko Salingera do Carvera. Rečenice se ponekad slažu (da ...more
Paul Curd
One thing you soon surmise from reading Raymond Carver is that he was an alcoholic. Carver’s characters tend to drink excessively, and his stories often examine the negative impact of drinking on his central character’s relationships. But nowadays, what we talk about when we talk about Carver is the role of his editor, Gordon Lish.

Carver first met Lish, then the editor of a small press magazine, in 1968. Lish began to heavily edit and publish Carver’s stories and Carver’s reputation grew. He was
...more
Carlos Campos
Feb 02, 2015 rated it it was amazing  ·  review of another edition
Principiantes o de qué hablamos cuando hablamos de Carver.

No, la canción de Enrique Bunbury no tiene absolutamente nada que ver con el texto de Carver. Sí, es un conjunto imprescindible de relatos que cualquier amante del género debe abordar, tanto desde la postura de la lectura como desde la creación literaria. Y sí, Birdman (Alejandro G. Iñárritu, 2014) es un excelente pretexto para ingresar al mundo literario de Carver, mas no a la inversa.
Los pretextos de la trama se sustentan en los problem
...more
Zee
Apr 27, 2011 rated it it was amazing  ·  review of another edition
When I picked this up, I didn't look at the author properly. I saw the 'Raymond' and briefly a 'C-er' and just grabbed it thinking it was a gritty detective novel by Chandler. I was disappointed when I got home, however my embarrasing misobservation turned into delight, as I discovery what I could probably call the 'perfect short story'.

Yes, Carver's precision and execution of this much overlooked writing form had me reeling with wonder and envy. Here was finally an author I could enjoy on a rea
...more
Diego
Sep 16, 2009 rated it it was amazing  ·  review of another edition
"That morning she pours Teacher's over my belly and licks it off. That afternoon she tries to jump out the window."

Nuff Said.
Gattalucy
Sep 07, 2017 rated it really liked it  ·  review of another edition
Shelves: americana
Astenersi disamorati dei racconti

Si tratta della stesura originale di "Di cosa parliamo quando parliamo d'amore", doverosa perchè l'editor che allora in fondo aveva scoperto Carver lo "massacrava" mica male, tagliando e cambiando pezzi che invece erano fantastici già cosi.
Ma in fondo era Carver stesso a modificarli a lungo, infinitamente, un po' come quando lavoriamo in Power Point e non siamo mai contenti...

e comunque Carver ti fa pensare. Ti immette in un mondo quotidiano fatto di storie da ni
...more
Guido
May 16, 2012 rated it it was amazing  ·  review of another edition
Che lusso, poter leggere una simile raccolta di racconti. Ho letto che Carver riteneva la composizione di un racconto molto simile a quella di una poesia. Una simile spiegazione non sarebbe necessaria, l'espressività della sua prosa lascia senza fiato per la sua purezza: si direbbe che Carver avesse scoperto un modo semplice e sorprendente per fare letteratura, scrivendo soltanto di quello che conosceva, usando il linguaggio più immediato che si può immaginare. Tutto il suo impegno è nella stori ...more
Nicolás Mendoza.
Dec 25, 2016 rated it really liked it  ·  review of another edition
Shelves: 2016, favorites
"Principiantes" contiene los manuscritos "originales" (sin edición) del libro "De qué hablamos cuando hablamos de amor" de Raymond Carver. Es una serie de relatos cortos donde encontramos personajes a punto de "colapsar" en sus vidas, finales abiertos, relatos crudos y algunos "salvajes". La historia que más me impactó es : "La aventura /The fling" (bolsas). Otras historias abrumadoras son: "Dile a las mujeres que nos vamos", "Tanta agua tan cerca", "Dummy", "La tarta" (dentro de la "psiquis" de ...more
Luciano Losiggio
Muchos de estos cuentos los había leído en su versión recortada. El cambio es grande. El estilo es otro. En los originales Carver desarrolla más. Igual si, el aire se corta con cuchillo en todos los relatos. Los personajes están siempre al borde de la violencia, al borde del desmoronamiento, en el momento justo en que todas las estructuras de la vida empiezan a crujir. Retratos del Crack-up fitzgeraldiano.

La primera vez que leí a Carver, recuerdo que me voló la cabeza. Después, con el tiempo, to
...more
Saverio Mariani
Raymond Carver
Principianti
Trad. It. Riccardo Duranti
Einaudi, pp. 290, € 12



Nella sua breve esistenza, soli cinquant’anni, Carver ha sofferto moltissimo di crisi alcoliche. Molto tempo lo ha passato in cura, contro l’alcolismo che lo attaccava.

Sorprende, allora, vedere come nei suoi libri (non solo in Principianti) l’alcol, problemi legati ad abuso di alcol e crisi di questo genere, siano molto presenti.
C’è quasi sempre, nei suoi racconti, una bottiglia di qualcosa, rum, gin, vodka… Quasi a vol
...more
Postcards from far away
Principianti d'amore.

In questo mondo di principianti in fatto d'amore, Carver ci pone la sua cornice eccezionale e ci dona una raccolta di racconti su quei gesti piccoli ma simbolici che ci fanno capire dove i protagonisti hanno amato e quelle situazioni dove l'amore è finito per sempre.
Diciamocelo, i migliori amici di Carver sono l'amore, il ballo, la pesca e l'alcol; quattro simboli ricorrenti in quasi tutti i racconti di Principianti, chi più chi meno.
Credo che in quest'opera, Carver sia rius
...more
Rosalba
Nov 06, 2015 rated it really liked it  ·  review of another edition
Non si vince mai davvero, non in quello che conta….

Però ci dovrebbe far vergognare quando parliamo come se sapessimo di cosa parliamo quando parliamo d’amore…
Quando ho iniziato questi racconti mi ero ripromessa di godermeli pian piano, uno alla volta, senza fretta. Un po’ perché i racconti sono un genere narrativo in cui si raccontano storie brevi, normalmente con un inizio ed una fine, per cui puoi riprenderli quando vuoi e magari leggere nel frattempo qualcos’altro. Ma quando ti immergi nella
...more
Andre
Jan 14, 2017 rated it it was amazing  ·  review of another edition
"Principiantes" es la versión original (sin pasar por editorial) del libro "De qué hablamos cuando hablamos de amor" . Feliz por encontrar la letra cruda y directa con relatos delirantes de personajes alcohólicos, divorciados, desesperados, sufridos, solitarios. Finales abiertos, que te dejan pensando e interpretando.
Sin duda, buscaré más obras del autor.
Victor
Interesting to see if you are really, really into Carver, but casual readers have no real need to venture here. "So Much Water, So Close to Home" and, of course, "A Small, Good Thing" are essential reads, but they are collected elsewhere. The only reason to get this is for the unedited "What We Talk About," and again--only for the truly curious. Maybe just get the Library of America edition and flip to 'em if the fancy strikes instead.
John Doez
Jun 11, 2017 rated it really liked it  ·  review of another edition
Shelves: short-stories
4,5 estrellas

Supongo que la media estrella que diferencia "Principiantes" de "De qué hablamos cuando hablamos de amor" es una cuestión de gusto. Además del meollo del cuento, tienen cabida detalles y matices que, a mi entender, aportan sensaciones a cada historia.
Realini
Beginners by Raymond Carver

Another version of this note and thoughts on other books are available at:

- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...

It was a great pleasure to read some of Carver’s accounts.
And then go through them again.

The audio work that I had the great chance to listen contains the short stories, selected essays and then some of the narratives are presented again.
There are differences.

But I could not distinguish between the earlier form and a version published later, modified in s
...more
MvM
Nov 11, 2013 rated it really liked it  ·  review of another edition
Più che l’attenzione al significato del dettaglio, caratterizza Carver la maestria del saper mettere a dimora il significato nel dettaglio (il punto d’arrivo e di svolta, d’attenzione, dell’intera vicenda raccontata); un dettaglio che è l’àncora della vicenda. E’ come camminare lungo una muraglia, per tutto il tempo del racconto, intravedere, immaginare, supporre, ipotizzare ciò che sta dall’altra parte, e trovare ciò di cui la storia ci mette alla ricerca solo in un preciso punto, spesso alla f ...more
clarissa
Jun 21, 2016 rated it it was amazing  ·  review of another edition
Fermi tutti. Per la prima volta nella mia vita ho finito un libro di racconti in meno di una settimana. E per la prima volta ho tastato la perfezione del saper dipingere situazioni nel corto, nell'incisivo, nell'immediato. Ho letto il racconto più bello di sempre, Principianti, che non a caso da' il nome alla raccolta. La capacità di Carver di saper descrivere situazioni di vita difficilissime o piene dal punto di vista sentimentale e farle rientrare in poche pagine è strabiliante. Concentrati d ...more
Ryan Williams
Something of a dilemma reading this book. On the one hand, I believe the Lish edited version (published as What We Talk About When We Talk About Love) was better.* On the other, I also believe the way those edits were imposed was unprofessional, unethical, and unforgivable. If nothing else, I hope it will remind people that there was a generosity of spirit in Carver's work all along.

*With the exception of the story 'A Small, Good Thing', which Lish butchered into 'The Bath'.
Jenny
May 20, 2010 rated it it was amazing  ·  review of another edition
I'm blown away by Raymond Carver's stories. Simple, direct language - sufficient detail to capture the moment, mood - with complex impact on my emotions, understanding of life. As I complete a story I cannot quickly turn to the next one. I need time to absorb the impact the story creates within me. Wow what a writer!
Juliet
Jul 08, 2015 rated it it was amazing  ·  review of another edition
What We Talk About When We Talk About Love, before his editor slashed it significantly. This is an amazing collection of stories about love and loss. Beautiful and terrible and difficult, you will see that you are not alone.
Emre Ergin
Jan 31, 2017 rated it really liked it  ·  review of another edition
how to write ✓
what to write X
Cathreen Shiucheng แคทเรน
Beginners comprises of noir short stories, but it's all good. Reflecting the lives we are living in.
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Carver was born into a poverty-stricken family at the tail-end of the Depression. He married at 19, started a series of menial jobs and his own career of 'full-time drinking as a serious pursuit', a career that would eventually kill him. Constantly struggling to support his wife and family, Carver enrolled in a writing programme under author John Gardner in 1958. He saw this opportunity as a turni ...more
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“I don't know why, but I suddenly felt a long way away from everybody I had known and loved when I was a girl. I missed people. For a minute I stood there and wished I could get back to that time. Then with my next thought I understood clearly that I couldn't do that. No. But it came to me then that my life did not remotely resemble the life I thought I'd have when I had been young and looking ahead to things.” 14 likes
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