Interview with Julie A. Swanson, Author of North of Tomboy

Middle Grade Reading for September Happy International Literacy Day!

Interview with Julie A. Swanson, Author of North of Tomboy

We're joined today by Julie Swanson, author of North of Tomboy:

For fans of Kacen Callender, Lin Thompson, and Kyle Lukoff, comes a middle grade novel set in 1973 about a child who feels more boy than girl and is frustrated that people act blind to that when—except for her stupid hair and clothes—it should be obvious!

You note this was the firstnovel you ever tried writing and "a hard one at that." What made itso challenging, and why did you keep at it over the years? What drove you tokeep going?

Several things made itchallenging. I wanted this to be for middle grade readers who are the age I waswhen I could've most used this story. And MG books ideally have main characterswho are twelve since kids like to read up (so I've read and been told byeditors and agents), but my main character was nine-and a half. While I waswilling to try to and make her older, this story is semi-autobiographical, and whenI rewrote it that way, it didn't ring true that I would've created Mickey attwelve. Even late-bloomer me who still played other types of pretend games at twelve.I didn't play with dolls at twelve, wasn't being given them for Christmas or mybirthday anymore at that age either. And my creation of Mickey was such aspontaneous, unconscious thing. It wasn't calculated and manipulative (at firstanyway). I didn't know what I was doing; it wasn't premediated. He just bubbledout of me. Kids do things like that--have that innocence and are lessself-conscious about imaginative play--more at 8-9-10 than at 11-12. When Iwrote the story with Jess at 11-12, Mickey felt too contrived. So I knew I hadto make Jess younger than gatekeepers wanted her and that doing so would lessenmy chances of people wanting to publish the story.

Finding the best place to beginwas hard, too. I kept thinking it had to start at Jess's first memory attwo-and-a-half, which made it this epic slice-of-life story that spanned eightyears, another thing gatekeepers didn't like. They said MG stories shouldn'tspan much more than a year's time. ...Once I found where I should begin , itwas like Duh. But fitting in all the backstory that used to be there whenit started with Jess at two-and-a-half, that was difficult, too. I had to learna lot craft-wise to do that.

It was also challenging to cutthe story back to a length gatekeepers wouldn't roll their eyes over. Afterdecades working on it and getting to know it, I felt the story needed to be a longerone, and, on top of that, I tend to over-write, so it was painful to get it toa manageable wordcount. Even once I'd cut all I felt I could, gatekeepers wouldsay it was still too long for MG, which is why I ended up deciding to go with ahybrid publisher. SparkPress was willing to accept it if I got it under 100,000words (it's 92,000). I've been paranoid about its length, about what reviewersand book buyers might say about it, but a few years ago I started compiling alist of MG books I'd read and their lengths, and I saw this trend forincreasingly long MG books. And in the past few months, going into bookstores,I've been surprised to see how thick the books on the MG shelves are! My bookdoesn't look too long at all compared to them. And no one who has reviewed ithas mentioned its length, so phew.

The story has psychologicalaspects to it that made it tricky as well. When I started writing it at twenty-three,I thought I understood what Mickey was, why I created him, why I didn't likebeing a girl, thought I was more boy than girl and would never grow up likegirls do. But I learned so much about myself in my 40s, came to deeper anddeeper levels of understanding. Jess might be an unreliable narrator, but eventhough the story's written in first person present tense, I tried to write it insuch a way that you can read between the lines and see the truth of things thatJess might not be able to yet. I think readers will get things a bit ahead ofJess so they can see where she's mistaken or confused, and why.

The last thing that made thisstory challenging was the portrayal of Mickey: how to convey whether he'stalking or "on" (acting but not talking) or Jess is, how to describehow he sounds and would say things in his weird little way.

Why did I keep going? I wouldask myself that same question when I got discouraged and worried I might neverget it right or that no one would ever want to publish it, that maybe I'd wastedall those years working on it. But I felt driven to keep going. Even when I'dtake breaks from the story to work on a different one, it would nag at me. I'dthink about it, dream about it at night, get ideas, take notes. The storywouldn't leave me alone, and I'd find myself back at it again. I couldn't waitfor whatever other book I was working on to be done, so I could get back to thisstory full-time like I'd promised myself I could after a break from it. I justcouldn't seem to give up on it, even though there were parts of me that feltthat no story means that much in the grand scheme of things.

You mention in your authorbio that you couldn't find books about kids who were "as uncomfortablebeing a girl" as you were. What drove you to finally write that storyyourself?

The word "finally" inthis question doesn't apply, because it wasn't something I put off. I startedwriting this story as soon as I considered myself an adult, which was rightafter I got married, straight out of college. It was a milestone I'd reachedwhere I felt like, Ah, now I can now look back on my childhood and considerit from a more mature perspective and write that story I promised myself Iwould. I couldn't wait to write it! Even as a kid I remember thinking, Whenyou grow up, you have to write about your childhood, how magical it is, howmuch fun you have, about the amazing place we live, our family, Mickey, how itfeels to be this boy/girl person that no one understands. Back then, I sawmy childhood as simply magical, or should I say mostly magical; yes, I spent alot of time being unhappy being a girl, being mad at my mom for making me bethat girl, and we had to walk on eggshells around my dad when he got mad, butother than that, I thought my family and my life were pretty much perfect.Other than that, those little things! Ha, yes, I minimized andcompartmentalized. Anyway, there wasn't anything that "finally" droveme to write it. I couldn't wait to. It was more a matter of how long it took meto get it published, how many versions of it I had to write before then.

The character of Mickey isso vivid and complex. Was there a real Mickey in your life?

Yes, I got a doll for Christmaswhen I was Jess's age, and I cut his hair and turned him into a boy, made himtalk and act things out, just like in North of Tomboy. Unlike Jess, Iasked for the doll for Christmas that year. My mom had a habit of buying me andmy sister dolls, even making us dolls, but I didn't usually like the ones shemade or picked out, so I figured I'd pick one out that had good boy potential (Iliked playing with dolls if they were boys, or action figures). I lookedthrough the Sears Wish Book and JC Penney Christmas catalogue and found a dollwearing a blue sweater set that didn't look too girly, and I put that doll onmy Christmas list. I didn't plan to make him talk, though; that happenedspontaneously just like in the story. In real life, Mickey lasted many years. Icontinued being him, and enjoying being him (unlike Jess, who comes to see himas a habit she needs to break), until an embarrassingly old age.

How did you develop Mickey'sdistinctive voice and speech patterns? What was your process for making himfeel like a separate character?

I know it sounds strange to saythis, but I didn't develop Mickey's voice or speech patterns; they just camepouring out of me. And his voice and way of speaking was so different than minethat it surprised me, delighted me. Even once I ditched the doll, as Jess does,and just started "being" and speaking as Mickey all on my own, hestill seemed "not me" like he was some weird little character I waschanneling. And since there was a real Mickey in my life, and for so long (Ican still be him around my mom and sister, but only them. Not when I tryto be him, only when he just spontaneously pipes up, and only once in a while.Weird, I know), I had absolutely no problem hearing his voice in my head while writingthe book. I could imagine the things he'd say and the way he'd say them, evenremember things he actually said.

Conveying that he was aseparate character from Jess was hard. How I did it was something that evolved.I had to figure out ways to cue when Jess was on versus when Mickey was on.Obviously Mickey speaks in such a distinctive way that you'd never mistake hisdialogue for Jess's, but sometimes he's doing things and not speaking--ofcourse really it's Jess doing the things as Mickey--and that could betricky, had to be shown by Jess's body language cuing Mickey, like Jess's upperlip that forms a little beak when he's "on." It's almost like whenpeople have multiple personalities and they switch, have totally differentmannerisms and voices.

How did you balance writingabout serious themes like gender identity and family dynamics while maintainingthe humor and lightness of childhood?

Glad you think I accomplishedthat! As a pretty serious kid (except for Mickey) and someone who tends toanalyze and dwell on heavy things, I worried it might be too much or thatpeople wouldn't think Mickey was as funny as my family did. But I tried to keepit simple and honest (bluntness is often funny, I think), because the feedbackI got on my first versions of this story was that it read like memoir or maybeit should be YA, that it seemed like a lot for middle graders, too deep, withtopics that are a bit mature. Even with a 9/10-year-old main character they'dsay that, which I didn't get, because we all deal with stuff that we're notmature enough for growing up (don't we?), and we have to try to make sense ofit anyway. But I was like, no, I want this to be for middle graders; they'rethe ones who could use this, not people who've already made it through that stage.So I tried to make it younger, simpler, to stay true to Jess's age and how Iwas then. I think the whole spirit of Mickey that infuses the story helps tokeep things light.

How do you think Jess'sstory resonates with contemporary discussions about gender identity andexpression?

It really does resonate. It's verytimely with all that's going on in our world with the controversy of pubertyblockers, parents being accused of child abuse for letting their trans kidsmake certain changes before they're eighteen, gender neutral bathrooms,transgender athletes looking for opportunities to play but people concernedabout the safety and fairness of that... And I think what's interesting about Jess'sstory is that, because of the time period it's set in (early 70s), it's a storythat's stripped of all the labels and terms and lingo that people tend to getcaught up in now, which makes it easier for those uncomfortable with LGBTQtopics to read and take it in, without any jargon turning them off or that'stoo new or hard for them to understand. At least that's what I hope. I hope readerscan just see the humanness and the pain, the distress really, of a child who'sconfused and questioning and uncomfortable in their skin, and that they're notmaking it up--they truly feel that.

What advice would you giveto kids who, like Jess, feel pressure to be someone they're not?

The world--and your gender--isn'tas black-n-white as some people might make it seem it is or should be. Youdon't have to be a girl or a boy, either masculine orfeminine. You can be both at the same time, in some ways masculine and in otherways feminine. Or you can be masculine sometimes, and feminine other times. Youcan also feel like neither. You don't have to find a label for yourself. And ifyou do, or have already, you can change your mind! Things aren't set in stone,fixed and decided for all time. People often change. So be patient, don't rushto a judgement on yourself, feel like you have to decide who or what you are at10 or 11 or 12 or whatever age you might be. And don't let anyone tell you whatyou are, or that who/what you are is wrong. Don't feel you have to be fake tobe "right" (for them). Be right for you, be true to yourself. Be theway that makes you feel good inside. Every morning just wake up and be who youhonestly feel you are that day. If that changes, if you feel differently, ifyou one day know, that's fine. But you don't have to know exactly orhave a word for what you are either. You can just be your own kind of girl orboy, or neither or both, or just your own weird indescribable but loveable you!A person, a human--a brave, growing, living, always changing YOU.

Lastly, if you can find thewords to talk about it, and if you can be brave enough, it always helps to talkabout things with another person, too. Find someone you feel safe with, someoneyou trust. If you're not sure you're brave enough (yet), or you can't find thewords, or you don't know anyone you feel safe enough with, it often helps towrite about it. Sometimes writing/journaling can help you try things out and findthe words to talk about something. Or you can write someone about it instead ofhaving to talk to them about it.

What’s next?

The next book in this series,where Jess is about to turn twelve, at the end of her sixth-grade year!