I take it all back. Books are not like cheese and if anyone would care to castigate me voraciously for my error, I shall be waiting excitedly anxiously near the table of flogging equipment.

Apparently my analogy wasn't close enough to the passion about books. Not that I don't get the "you have no taste" or "weirdo" comments when I say I don't like it. The analogy just didn't work. Okay. But straight up telling authors that reviews are about expressing opinions isn't working. Because authors continue to melt down and continue to read bad reviews and continue to believe that reviewers are after them with large pointy things that don't start with "dil" and end with "do", but, in fact, look much more like things that start with "pitch" and end with "fork".

And let's say that they are after you with pitchforks? So what.

And to quote myself from the other day at AW forums:
"Pride & Prujudice: 2 stars (26390) | 1 star (15269)

Game of Thrones: 2 stars (2856) | 1 star (1500)

Twilight: | 2 stars (95767) | 1 star (108279)

The Hunger Games: | 2 stars (7614) | 1 star (3202)

Harry Potter: | 2 stars (31241) | 1 star (17797)

The Great Gatsby: | 2 stars (68527) | 1 star (30791)

1984: | 2 stars (30242) | 1 star (14482)

Slaughterhouse 5: | 2 stars (22056) | 1 star (15660)

The Cat in the Hat: (yes, DR. SUESS) | 2 stars (4099) | 1 star (1159)

Next time an author sees a negative review they can reference this and know that they're in good company."

Look, it sucks to get attacked. It sucks to have your book attacked. I doubt most of the reasonable people on GR would disagree, but this gets hammered home a million times: Reviews are not for authors. Even the "mean girl" reviews aren't intended for the author. They are for the audience of readers. I believe at least a few reviewers wouldn't even want the author reading their review. So yeah, that review hurts the author, but hey why are you reading it? Quit running into the pitchforks.

I get the sense that some people wouldn't run from Jason Vorhees. They'd turn around and confront him and his machete and then get upset when he lopped off their head.



There's another thing too. You, as an author, have a bigger voice than that of a reader. We've seen the recent blow ups around the YA community. That word bully is thrown around a lot. Here's why it's appropriate.

One of the reviewers that got called out, I checked her friends list. She has 900ish followers/friends. Let's say another 1,000 maybe follow her without adding her to their feeds. The author who blew up had 40,000 followers on twitter alone. Forty. Thousand.

Let me show those numbers side by side 2000 vs 40,000. Every author I checked on GR has more fans than their negative reviewer. Every one. Even the ones who have been embroiled in this kerflufflery (I make up words, it's my thing shush) and have had people stop following them, STILL have more followers by far than most reviewers.

Here is why that matters. Even if a book blogger reaches 40,000 people, she/he doesn't influence 80% of those buyers. People will pick up a book based on a lot of factors. And 40,000 people speaking out about their love for a book are a lot louder than 1 blogger/reviewer speaking to 40,000 people about her/his dislike of it.

And 1 reviewer with 100 friends is not heard as loudly as the goodreads author with 1,000 followers.

Imagine being that one voice. That one person with 100 friends, going up against someone who has 1,000. Imagine being that one voice with 2,000 followers up against that other voice with 40,000.

There's that advice about don't read reviews. I'm going to repeat it and go one step further. Don't just stop reading reviews. Engage a Public Relations person. Hire someone, or ask someone, who can pass you along information you need and speak to the public before you, or instead of you. And make sure that they never never respond to a review.

I'm sorry that my "books are like cheese analogy" didn't work. How about books are like movies? Books are like art? Books are like wine? Books are like -- well, anything else that people are opinionated about--passionate about. I shouldn't feel like the National Dairy Council is going to come down on my head because I hate cheese, or even wrote how much I hate cheese. I'd be pretty freakin' intimidated if they did.

The thing about the bully pulpit is it's hard to see the effect it has when you're speaking from it. Let me tell you how powerful words are. Because of a recent post, SEVERAL friends of mine have become afraid to give out reviews. Some going so far as to delete their lower reviews and/or their entire collection of book reviews.

I am not saying that either side is right here or either side is wrong. There's validity on both sides about mean reviews--not NEGATIVE reviews, that's a different thing. I'm specifically referring to mean reviews.

What I am saying is that some people's voices are more powerful than others. The person with the most powerful voice needs to take that into account when they make a statement. Or better yet, not make a statement at all. They probably have 40,000 fans making that statement for them.

Words have power, that's why we write them. But some words have too much negative power and should never be written.
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Published on April 13, 2012 18:09 • 895 views
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message 1: by Kassandra (new)

Kassandra I've said this to another author before, I would send you balloons if I could! (I refuse to be a stalker and look up people's addresses, that's just creepy!) Well said luv, well said!

Words hurt and reach places inside us that no blade ever could.


message 2: by Aiko (last edited Apr 13, 2012 06:26PM) (new)

Aiko *high five* ( it's horribly lame, but I still felt like doing it. )

I'll never apologize or feel bad for giving negative reviews on books I don't like. I'm entitled to like what I like, and dislike what I dislike just as much as everyone else is.


message 3: by Dani (new)

Dani Alexander WeaselBox wrote: "Also... 1 star is too good for 1984."

=( Bad Weasel Bad! *smacks hand* lol j/k I didn't like it either. Mainly because it was scary @@.

WeaselBox wrote: "Books are not at all like cheese, because cheese is nasty."

WOOT! We need a No Cheese club.

Aiko wrote: "*high five* ( it's horribly lame, but I still felt like doing it. )

I'll never apologize or feel bad for giving negative reviews on books I don't like. I'm entitled to like what I like, and dislik..."


You are absolutely entitled to, and should, give opinions about books you like, books you don't like, books you're not sure of, books that make you horny, books that make you angry, books that make you feel icky, books that make you laugh, books that make you squirm.


Kassandra wrote: "I've said this to another author before, I would send you balloons if I could! (I refuse to be a stalker and look up people's addresses, that's just creepy!) Well said luv, well said!

Words hurt..."


I like balloons! Pink ones =) Feel free to stalk me, though, I only leave the house with my beagle. If I find you out there, I'll just stick you with him and run back inside to write some more *grin*.


message 4: by Experiment BL626 (last edited Apr 13, 2012 07:58PM) (new)

Experiment BL626 Because of a recent post, SEVERAL friends of mine have become afraid to give out reviews. Some going so far as to delete their lower reviews and/or their entire collection of book reviews.

Me too, and it's so sad. I, OTOH, will never do that. Nuh-uh, not ever. My voice as a conscientious consumer will not be smothered. I refuse to be pushed around by bad businesses. There's a reason why the world's economy is in such shitty state. Because they're caused by bad businesses who acted very, very, very unprofessionally. I cannot do anything about Wall Street, but I can do something about it here on GoodReads. Change start with one person and this person is saying no to unprofessional businesses.

Now where is that damn tree for me to hug? >:D


message 5: by Ami (new)

Ami I'm just going to point out Daniel Pennac's "Readers' Bill of Rights" for those authors.

Done. Said my piece.


message 6: by [deleted user] (new)

I will fess up to being one of the people changing the way I use my bookshelves because of the amount of author whinging, both here on GR and on their blogs, but I actually like my new arrangement much better.

I've decided to go pass/fail. If I would have given a book a 4 or 5, it gets shelved as "read" and I might even add a review. If it is in the "meh" to "blech" range it gets dumped. I'm saved from having to write a review and my shelves aren't cluttered with books I don't care about. Which, unfortunately, includes an awful lot of the m/m I read. So my "read" shelf is my rec list. Have fun.

Now I realize this is a great hardship for my friends not having the little stars for a quick and dirty look-see, but they are strong and creative people so I feel they can probably cope with me being contrary.


message 7: by Chris (new)

Chris Kate wrote: "I will fess up to being one of the people changing the way I use my bookshelves because of the amount of author whinging, both here on GR and on their blogs, but I actually like my new arrangement ..."

Dammit, Kate, this is a great inconvenience to me. I shall commence my snit immediately.


Experiment BL626 Chris wrote: "Dammit, Kate, this is a great inconvenience to me. I shall commence my snit immediately."

Me too.


message 9: by LenaLena (last edited Apr 13, 2012 09:04PM) (new)

LenaLena Well, you thought wrong Kate. I find this very inconsiderate. *sigh*

(Personally, I would forget I had already read the 'meh' books and accidentally read them again.)

But hey, I am the type of person who will pick up a book I already know I am going to hate just so I can write a snarky review about it. I should probably feel guilty about that, but I can't seem to dredge up a whole lot of that right now.

Of course, my goodreads friends *pointed look* also send me crappy books on purpose so I will write snarky reviews for them. Yea, I am looking at you, Ms Pass/Fail.


message 10: by [deleted user] (new)

Competitive pouting. I like it. :D

This works well then, M. I find a cringe worthy crap book and give to you so that you can indulge yourself. What's not to like in this arrangement?? Win-win.

I did NOT say I wouldn't provide snarky running commentary as I was reading stupid books. Only that I won't give them shelf space when I'm done. If masochistic authors want to read those comments, they are welcome to indulge themselves.


message 11: by LenaLena (new)

LenaLena This works well then, M. I find a cringe worthy crap book and give to you so that you can indulge yourself. What's not to like in this arrangement?? Win-win.

Fine. But if the author comes bitching and/or crying, I am going to throw you to the wolves. Just sayin'. If I am going down I am taking you with me.


message 12: by Experiment BL626 (new)

Experiment BL626 Well, Kate, I find books you hate equally important as books you love. Plus, Marleen makes a good point which is that you may find yourself forgetting you've read that bad book and accidentally reading it again.

My snit is making headway, I believe. =d


message 13: by [deleted user] (new)

Marleen wrote: "This works well then, M. I find a cringe worthy crap book and give to you so that you can indulge yourself. What's not to like in this arrangement?? Win-win.

Fine. But if the author comes bitchin..."


Okay, fair is fair. It's not like you are shy about giving credit where credit is due *cough* Locker Room *cough*.


message 14: by LenaLena (new)

LenaLena Of course not. You dared me!

I think I remember Boats in the Night was your fault too.


message 15: by [deleted user] (new)

Experiment BL626 wrote: "Well, Kate, I find books you hate equally important as books you love. Plus, Marleen makes a good point which is that you may find yourself forgetting you've read that bad book and accidentally rea..."

You are going to have to hope Marleen feels like sharing the good stuff, Experiment. :)


message 16: by [deleted user] (new)

Marleen wrote: "Of course not. You dared me!

I think I remember Boats in the Night was your fault too."


That started with a person who would prefer not to be named here. I just passed it on to an appreciative audience. *smug*


message 17: by [deleted user] (new)

WeaselBox wrote: "I'll miss your snarky reviews Kate. Negative reviews are both easier and more fun to write. It's almost always easier to identify what's wrong with a bad book than explain the magic of a good one..."

Make friends quick with Marleen! She does excellent pinpoint snark on poorly written books. Our tastes on books are pretty close, although she is more tolerant of emo introspective dialogue from adolescent characters than I am.


message 18: by [deleted user] (new)

Dani? Sorry, sorry for glomming your blog post.

*hands tattered thread back*


message 19: by LenaLena (last edited Apr 13, 2012 09:37PM) (new)

LenaLena You do smug so well, dahlink. LOL

Here. I got a present for you:
http://jezebel.com/5900906/your-morni...


message 20: by [deleted user] (last edited Apr 13, 2012 09:42PM) (new)

Marleen wrote: "You do smug so well, dahlink. LOL

Here. I got a present for you:
http://jezebel.com/5900906/your-morni..."


ROFL. My cat is lying next to me full of ennui. I'm sure all of that is going through her head, too. Now I just need a cat door.....


message 21: by Experiment BL626 (new)

Experiment BL626 Kate wrote: "You are going to have to hope Marleen feels like sharing the good stuff, Experiment. :)"

The good stuff? What? I'm sorry but I'm not interested in recreational drug use. Now back to our discussion about books. ;)

@WeaselBox
I do that occasionally, I even recommend books I 1-star rate. I may not have enjoyed the book but it doesn't necessarily mean someone else won't. I gave a PWP 4-stars and a classic 1-star, so yeah... =d


message 22: by LenaLena (new)

LenaLena ROFL. My cat is lying next to me full of ennui. I'm sure all of that is going through her head, too. Now I just need a cat door.....

Maybe you should read her some of that Proust book you haven't finished yet.


message 23: by [deleted user] (new)

Marleen wrote: "ROFL. My cat is lying next to me full of ennui. I'm sure all of that is going through her head, too. Now I just need a cat door.....

Maybe you should read her some of that Proust book you haven't..."


Ah ah ah. I did finish it. Last night, even. Just to get it off my "currently reading" list where it has been since January.


message 24: by Dani (new)

Dani Alexander @Kate =D Derail away. There will be no censorship here in any way or form.

I hope everyone always feels welcome to come chat in my threads. Even if I don't respond, I do read them (although less often than before--am busy writing a lot, trying to catch up lol) and they're always open to anyone.

@Experiment *hands a tree* Don't get splinters...and if I see you humping it, we're going to have words!

@Ami We should add to that bill of rights =D


message 25: by Darkm (last edited Apr 13, 2012 11:40PM) (new)

Darkm Just my two cents.

I always try to be careful when I write a review (and besides, I'm no one, I just write down if something was really good FOR ME or didn't work at all) and sometimes I don't write anything.

I believe even when writing a negative review we have to try to be as less hurtful as possible, but this being said, a review is something personal, and in a free word, everyone should be able to talk.

I hope I made sense. :)


message 26: by Dani (new)

Dani Alexander Darkm wrote: "Just my two cents.

I always try to be careful when I write a review (and besides, I'm no one, I just write down if something was really good FOR ME or didn't work at all) and sometimes I don't wri..."


=) You made perfect sense, Megs. And you're not no one. I promise that. Write whatever you want about whatever you want <3


message 27: by LenaLena (new)

LenaLena I feel like starting a list of annoying, whiny authors and reviewing their books with all the snark I've got.


message 28: by Dani (new)

Dani Alexander Marleen wrote: "I feel like starting a list of annoying, whiny authors and reviewing their books with all the snark I've got."

LOL I always wondered if snark could be used for good... you know like writing positive snarky reviews? Is that even possible?

Can you make snide comments on stuff you like? I really have to think about this. But not now. Because I am so on a writing streak. NOTHING WILL STOP ME! (except this minor blip of a blog post because I was upset about Kate removing her books).


message 29: by [deleted user] (new)

Marleen wrote: "I feel like starting a list of annoying, whiny authors and reviewing their books with all the snark I've got."

That thought makes me tired. It's a looonnnggg list.


message 30: by [deleted user] (new)

WeaselBox wrote: "Dani wrote: "LOL I always wondered if snark could be used for good... "

A whole lot of humour is usually at someone's expense. (Humour's usually considered a good thing. :)"


Why are there u's in your 'humour'. Are you a closet anglophile or are you just playing mind games?


message 31: by LenaLena (new)

LenaLena Kate wrote: "Marleen wrote: "I feel like starting a list of annoying, whiny authors and reviewing their books with all the snark I've got."

That thought makes me tired. It's a looonnnggg list."


Should I expect a list of recommendations for snarky reviews soon, then?


message 32: by Dani (new)

Dani Alexander LOL What happens if you LIKE the books?


message 33: by [deleted user] (new)

Marleen wrote: "Kate wrote: "Marleen wrote: "I feel like starting a list of annoying, whiny authors and reviewing their books with all the snark I've got."

That thought makes me tired. It's a looonnnggg list."
..."


Retroactive is no fun. As they happen is more timely and satisfying. I'm sure you won't have to wait long. Unfortunately. *sigh*


message 34: by [deleted user] (new)

Dani is writing!! Woot, woot. Is Cai getting any yet or are you still cockblocking him, poor kid?


message 35: by Santino (new)

Santino Hassell It's really kind of ridiculous that people get this riled up over a couple of bad reviews. What did they think was going to happen when they put their writing out for the general public to read and dissect? The assumption that everyone is going to love your carefully crafted bullshit is arrogant, and the assumption that all reviewers are going to be nice/considerate is just stupid.

Since when are the vast majority of people ANYWHERE nice or considerate? If it doesn't happen out in the real world, it certainly isn't going to go down on the Internet when people have the gift of anonymity to say what they really want to say, and sometimes what they would never say if they weren't anonymous.

I've never been riled up by a bad review, but I have a thick skin. Being a manager in retail for years made me immune to people talking shit to me to my face so people talking shit on the Internet doesn't faze me at all. As far as Goodreads in particularly, I've often found critical reviews helpful. Some of my most critical reviews prompted me to make major revisions of stories, and it was improved for the better.

The only time I have ever gotten angry about a "bad review" was because it was clearly a personal thing, and the individual was trying to drag the story through the mud in multiple posts for some weird, spiteful reason and it was obvious. The moral of this rambling ass reply is that people need to get over their bullshit and stop thinking everyone is going to think they're brilliant or sugar coat their thoughts.


message 36: by [deleted user] (new)

I need a like button for that one, Sonny!


message 37: by [deleted user] (new)

WeaselBox wrote: "+1 Sonny. I am sick of all this bitching and whining. The thread on Val's post was nice and thoughtful for a while, but it seems to have turned rather nasty now. I think it's time to avoid GR fo..."

It's easier just to talk around those type of people instead of engaging them. If you ignore them, they get bored and leave. :)


message 38: by Santino (new)

Santino Hassell WeaselBox wrote: I can refrain from buying the box of Capt Crunch when I go for groceries, but once bought, I'm having Capt Crunch for breakfast, lunch, and dinner until it's gone."

If it's Peanut Butter Capt Crunch, I'm right there with you.

I just skimmed the post you guys are talking about and I'm a little alarmed at some people's criteria for a thought provoking, meaningful review. I mean I frankly save my thought provoking writing for Grad school papers on Educational theory, and even then I throw in some academic sounding snark just because I'm that kind of dude.

I don't see what's wrong with snark, honestly. It makes the review more interesting to read, and reviewers who have their own followings on these types of forums generally have a certain hype to live up to as well and deliberately write in a sarcastic/humorous way. It's like that on any review blog/review show/site/anything. Siskel and Ebert snarked on movies, Perez Hilton snarked on celebrities, and those are movies that cost millions to make and actual people who are being criticized and torn apart for the world to see. It's just what happens when you put yourself out there in any way.


message 39: by Dani (last edited Apr 15, 2012 03:52PM) (new)

Dani Alexander What I find weird is readers who complain do so in someone else's thread. While GR does leave that open (a problem in itself) for anyone to remark in, I wouldn't dream of going into someone else's thread and bitching at them oO. Disagreeing, sure, because it's an open thread comment, but there are ways to disagree without starting a flame war.

What gets me is that no one thinks to actually use their voice to point out the flaws in the review in their OWN review.

If you believe that strongly in a book, you should be able to refute another review a) without going into their thread on the subject and b) being just as snarky.

Goodreads is like open mike night, everyone who wants a voice has it. But your time on stage shouldn't interrupt someone else's.

But that's specifically readers. Authors need to really just not comment at all. The moment an author weighs in, even if it's not about their book, the atmosphere changes. That's why I try so hard to limit what I do on GR.


message 40: by [deleted user] (last edited Apr 15, 2012 04:28PM) (new)

WeaselBox wrote: "I really should go watch TV or something. This whole debate has really worn me down and put me in a foul mood. "

Let's chat about more fun things. Like why we eat Capn Crunch or Cheetos (just for you Dani). I mean these things are really revolting. And that fluorescent orange stuff they coat those things with can't belong in the human body, it's not even close to cheese. So what on earth makes us do it??!!

ETA: Oh yeah, meant to comment on Dani's comment. I had one person comment on one of my review threads last year and tell me they couldn't understand why I had disliked the book because they had luved, luved, luved it and thought it was one of the best things they'd read all year. It wasn't nasty or anything, the person sounded honestly baffled that someone could dislike a book she had enjoyed so much. I had no idea how to respond. Which, if you know me, is not something that happens very often. But seriously??? Are there people running around out there who are this tied into Groupthink?


message 41: by Dani (new)

Dani Alexander Kate wrote: "WeaselBox wrote: "I really should go watch TV or something. This whole debate has really worn me down and put me in a foul mood. "

Let's chat about more fun things. Like why we eat Capn Crunch or..."


=( I love Cap'n Crunch >8( Why oh why must you hate on it >8(

And Cheetos too. Geez. We hve similar book tastes, but your food tastes are way out there. There is NOTHING better than Flamin' Hot Cheetos. There is also NOTHING worse than the aftereffects of Flamin' Hot Cheetos--so says my Flamin' Hot Butt.


message 42: by [deleted user] (new)

Dani wrote: "Kate wrote: "WeaselBox wrote: "I really should go watch TV or something. This whole debate has really worn me down and put me in a foul mood. "

Let's chat about more fun things. Like why we eat ..."


Heh. Cheetos are actually one of my guilty pleasures. My husband rolls his eyes every time a little bag of them sneaks home with the groceries. But still. They are pretty retarded as food.


message 43: by Experiment BL626 (last edited Apr 15, 2012 04:46PM) (new)

Experiment BL626 WeaselBox wrote: "This whole debate has really worn me down and put me in a foul mood."

Nah, you just need to build tolerance for it. If you like, I'll alert you when another 'authors vs. reviewers' episode occur in the YA community. They're always amusing because these fights include teenage girls and the insults are wildly creative. Last time, a YA author compared bad reviews as rape. R-A-P-E. An episode before that, a YA author deliberately attack reviewers for publicity. And there's one running around GR making sockpuppets to slam readers who disagree with her.

Of course, it's always the bad review devoid of personal attacks the authors react.

This skirmish in the M/M Romance community is incredibly tamed in comparison. The average fight in the YA community can go on for 5-10 pages in thread size.


message 44: by Dani (new)

Dani Alexander Kate wrote: "WeaselBox wrote: "I really should go watch TV or something. This whole debate has really worn me down and put me in a foul mood."

Write a post for my blog about a completely unrelated subject. Anything happy or fun or snarky =). Maybe we can change the conversation? (I'd suggest cover art--because I'm mildly obsessive and fixated on it *whistes*)

Btw, you've got me reading all those posts you were talking about, Weasel.

Kate wrote: "Heh. Cheetos are actually one of my guilty pleasures. My husband rolls his eyes every time a little bag of them sneaks home with the groceries. But still. They are pretty retarded as food. "

Cheetos are the best thing EVER ad one of the few American chips I can get over here. =( They don't even have bbq flavor >8( It's terrible.

Dammit. STore is closed and I want Cheetos now.

If ONLY I could get Cap'n Crunch though, my life would be complete.

Thank God they finally got Mountain Dew here or I'm not sure my life would be worth living.


message 45: by Dani (last edited Apr 15, 2012 04:48PM) (new)

Dani Alexander Experiment BL626 wrote: "This skirmish in the M/M Romance community is incredibly tamed in comparison. The average fight in the YA community can go on for 5-10 pages in thread size. "

Wow, our attention span in m/m sucks. Every discussion--EVERY DISCUSSION--I've been in has derailed by the 2nd page. =D

ETA: Usually into hot men or a different book. *snort*


message 46: by [deleted user] (new)

Cheez-its is heaven. I got one of the big boxes (you know, the ones that were a whole pound a couple of years ago but have been shrunk down to 13.something ounces for the same price) because they were on sale. I had to share with my cat and give a few to the dog, but the rest are ALL MINE.


message 47: by [deleted user] (new)

WeaselBox wrote: "Kate wrote: "I had to share with my cat and give a few to the dog, but the rest are ALL MINE."

Hah! You know whats stupid. I have had just about every sort of pet you can legally keep in this m..."


I don't have any idea. I put peanut butter on my mouse traps. Cheese just dries up and gets ignored. :D


message 48: by LenaLena (new)

LenaLena Write a post for my blog about a completely unrelated subject. Anything happy or fun or snarky =). Maybe we can change the conversation? (I'd suggest cover art--because I'm mildly obsessive and fixated on it *whistes*)

Ooooh, thanks for the reminder. I was working on something. But my son's ADHD is probably genetic, so I'd already forgotten.

And: wonderful discussion everyone, but I think I am done with this topic for a while.


message 49: by [deleted user] (new)

Oh LOL. Was he the guy with the "happy, happy little trees" and the "happy, happy little clouds", etc? I thought his pictures were bad, bad, bad. Every time he added something they looked darker and muddier.


message 50: by Dani (new)

Dani Alexander Marleen wrote: "Ooooh, thanks for the reminder. I was working on something. But my son's ADHD is probably genetic, so I'd already forgotten.

Oh yeah I was supposed to be all whooopass on you. Get to work! Ahem.

Marleen wrote: And: wonderful discussion everyone, but I think I am done with this topic for a while. "

Lol no worries. I think the subject has definitely moved on.

You have to wonder about all of our ADHD because these threads have the most interesting turns. From author/reader reviews to captain cruch to mouse traps with peanut butter to Bob Ross...

No one would believe those were related or how they came up in the same conversation *snort*

Now can we relate it to Kevin Bacon?


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