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The Book...
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Well, the one that most of us are about to read is this:
http://www.goodreads.com/book/...
although much discussion and debate will inevitably proceed from it, posts are definitely not limited to the book.
in true godardian fashion, let this group be a cubist fuckall of... well, to paraphrase sam fuller from Pierrot Le Fou, let it be "a battle ground... love, hate, action, violence, death. In one word: emotion!"
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"About to read" my ass! I'm in it up to my
petit soldat, my friend.
Was shocked to learn that Godard had rightist sympathies as a young man. Was even more shocked to learn that Sarah's a(n alleged) Godard fan. Or maybe she was lured here by a painfully misguided hope for shirtless wrasslin'?
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I think it was the latter, Davey. I'm not sure why Brian invited me but I've asked if I can come watch even if I've nothing to contribute (other than my sparkling personality and the pleasure of my company).
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Well, who knows, Sarah? Maybe it's a fundamental axiom of Goodreads group dynamics that any thread that remains active long enough will end up talking about feces and/or sex. Stick around and see.
Has anyone here seen that History of Cinema thing Godard did? Wasn't it something like fifty-six thousand hours or something? I have the "soundtrack" with books, but something tells me that a history of cinema begs for... well, cinema.
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read away your mass produced book, davey-boy!
i've seen parts 3 and 4 of
Histoire du Cinema! and it's genius! and you'll never see it! (evil laughter)
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I do like being the only girl in a room full of smart and funny boys, though. Any other of the estrogen persuasion invited, Brian?
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Damn............
Does it count as mass-produced if very small Chinese children glue the pages together by hand? (There's your Maoism, my Dead Horny Chairman.)
I'll see that
Histoire thing someday if it's the last thing I do. And I know Sarah's gonna want to see it, too. I'll just tell her that Harry Connick Jr.'s in it. Shirtless.
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message 8:
by
brian
(last edited 07/05/2008 07:13PM)
07/05/2008 07:10PM
no! we want you all to ourselves!
yeah, lots of invites. none of 'em appear to be online at the moment. it is saturday night and you know these damn book-reading floozies... bathtubs filled with gin, sipping champagne out of their slippers... disgraceful.
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Brian, not to be a nitpicker, but... shouldn't this be called In God(ard) We Trust? I was thinking maybe Cleanliness Is Next to Godardliness, but I didn't think you'd go for that one.
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i love that. as god (no 'ard') of the group, i considered deleting your comment so as to take credit for the name, but... i'll let you have this one.
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David, look at that, from zero to sex in only eleven posts.
Brian, I liked your first response better. :)
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Harry Connick Jr. has big yabbos. I wonder if he's ever been suckled.
Brian, I'm glad to see that your cult of personality is already underway...
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They're called pectorals, David. If you exercised your body every once in a while instead of just your caustic wit you might know that. *raspberries*
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Well first of all I hate the word 'God' in a title of ...anything. But beyond that, David I did see the complete Godard Historie du Cinema - and Brian I think you came with us at the Hammer right?
Anyway the film is great. It's basically the history of cinema with Godard as your host. And being Godard, it's a rough and wild car trip. Lots of text and incredible images.
And if not mistaken, I think there is a French DVD out - and for sure there is a Japanese DVD release. The Japanese DVD has footnotes! In Japanese of course.
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hic... sorry, just finished several slipperfulls of champagne. Glad to join the party. I can see this is going to be, how shall I say, intéressant.
So I was watching the Godard interviews on the Contempt extras DVD recently and noticed for the first time that it sounds like Godard has a lisp. Anyone else notice this or have I just listened to too much of that damn rock 'n' roll and am now suffering permanent ear damage?
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message 17:
by
brian
(last edited 07/05/2008 09:15PM)
07/05/2008 09:10PM
tosh! we didn't see the whole thing. it's about 10 hours i think. we saw parts 3 & 4. or 4 & 5. whatever it was i remember hard core pornography, hitler superimposed over hitchcock, and endless (lisping?) ramblings by our favorite cranky old man.
kimley you lush! you slut! you libertine!
you're in like company.
welcome...
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Does he lisp? Maybe that's in the new Godard book. So we didn't see the whole film? Wow. Maybe it's on an ongoing thing with him. It's a pretty major piece of work.
It would be cool if we go through every film he made and list the books that are either mentioned or Anna Karina is holding. - and then read all those books!
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message 19:
by
brian
(last edited 07/05/2008 10:22PM)
07/05/2008 10:19PM
ah... that's too much, tosh. it just locks right into my OCD. every book mentioned in a godard film... whew.
it was godard, actually, who got me into faulkner. years ago i saw
Two or Three Things I Know About Her and in the voiceover godard quotes the final line of Wild Palms: "between grief and nothing, i will take grief."
yes.
viva godard!
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a lisp. great. now i love him more.
team! are you out there?any truth to this tale:
he used to get in such physical battles with anna k. that they would shred each others clothing, including what was in the closet, and then when the dust settled they would have to go out in their trench coats to buy new attire?
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That's a good story! Where did you hear this Ruth? Godard in his young years was a good dresser. So the clothing bills must have been expensive!
And speaking of women, Godard has incredible taste in beauties. All the women in his films are total visual knockouts. Anna Karina is incredible! I have some recordings by her.
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I have one of Anna's albums, too, Tosh... the one where she sings the "ligne de chance" song from
Pierrot le fou. I also have the
Anna soundtrack (Serge Gainsbourg), but I am sure you have that one.
Anne Wiazemsky was also very beautiful and bears more than a passing resemblance to Anna Karina, I think. I just found out they were married for over ten years... I didn't realize it lasted so long.
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message 23:
by
brian
(last edited 07/06/2008 02:32PM)
07/06/2008 02:32PM
Wiamzemsky on the cover of Bresson's
Au Hasard Balthazar is the most beautiful woman in the world. i think in that picture she trumps even A. Karina...
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Oh, yes... What a beautiful photo--and a heartbreaking film. I want Balthazar to come live with me. (No, not
that way.) If anyone tries to mess with him, I'll put a cap in his/her ass. Metaphorically speaking.
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message 25:
by
brian
(last edited 07/06/2008 03:10PM)
07/06/2008 02:48PM
uh... Balthazar's too smart to fall for the peanut butter trick, david. stick with the cat.
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Ew.
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No way. Cat's tongues are way too rough.
Of course there are manifold jokes I could make in rebuttal about "Jack"-ing off and the like, but I'll resist the urge because (1) I'm trying to help keep this place fuckin' classy and (2) I'm good at repressing my urges. (But when I explode, look out. It'll be the Bikini Atoll all up in here.)
I think I'll name my next pet Balthazar. Provided that he's male, and yes even if he's female. I hope that doesn't doom him to a symbolic life of persecution.
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forgive me for sneaking into this room, slipping through the door after someone else... a little too eager... but i heard the whispers of a JLG discussion... and, um, i'm a fan. ...the
colin maccabe bio was so-so but it did whet the appetite for something better, some way to get a grip on that wiliest of pickpockets, so i'm looking forward...
to share: the two bits i remember most from the maccabe bio were 1) the samurai detail of how coutard's a.c., a guy named charles bitsch, was shocked "when one day Godard opened his wallet and showed him a razor blade which he kept 'in case he wanted to commit suicide'" (p150)... and 2) this practically slapstick description of a fight with Karina:
"Karina has the memory of a nightmare trip ... when Godard suggested a holiday on the Cote D'Azur. A hundred kilometres outside Paris he said, 'I don't have the time for this. There's work to do with Francois, with
Cahiers,' and he turned the car around. Twenty-five kilometres outside Paris he changes his mind and set out again for the South. Halfway there, he exploded, 'It's incredible that you won't let me work.' 'It was your idea,' Karina shot back, and they turned again for Paris. As they approached the capital he said, 'Are you sure you don't want to go?' At this point Karina flew into a rage, hitting and kicking the car..." (p. 141).
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message 29:
by
Dave
(last edited 07/06/2008 03:22PM)
07/06/2008 03:20PM
I think Marina Vlady has them all beat in the hotness department.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt00...
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You are so wrong, D. Russ. (Trust that I am checking and rechecking my spelling and grammar before I post this. I don't want to get you unnecessarily riled.)
Welcome, Eugene. Like many great directors (Bergman also comes to mind), Godard doesn't seem like the best of men. (That title is already taken by me.)
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Wiamzemsky! Wow! That is the most beautiful woman I have ever seen pose with a Donkey.
Catherine Denueve was pretty hard to beat in her prime as were Bardot, Loren and Claudia Cardinale. But you guys know european films way better than me.
Did Godard allow particular actresses the become his muse like Hitchcock did with Grace Kelly or Ingrid Bergmann? Did he have an actor he was particularly fond of using as a stand-in for himself like Truffaut did with Jean-Pierre Léaud
or Lynch did with Kyle Maclachlan for awhile?
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According to my friend David E., Wiamzemsky wrote a memoir recently (published last year) about her experiences shooting Balthazar with Robert Bresson. It seems like he had a sexual relationship with her during the shooting. He was in his 60's and she was in her late teens.
Also Wiamzemsky is a good writer!
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What is with Godard and his Anna/Annes?
Married:
Anne Wiazemsky (22 July 1967 - 1979) (divorced)
Anna Karina (3 March 1961 - 1967) (divorced)
Anne-Marie Miéville (? - present)
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I know very little of Anne-Marie Miéville's work before Godard. But it's interesting that he also has a working relationship with her as well. The other two, not so?? I mean beyond husband/filmmaker and its star. Right off it sort of reminds me of John Lennon with his first wife or his relationships with women and then came Yoko Ono - who became not only a life-time lover, but also worked as a team. It seems on the surface that this is what happened with Godard as well.
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message 35:
by
David
(last edited 07/08/2008 05:35AM)
07/08/2008 05:34AM
Did Godard allow particular actresses the become his muse like Hitchcock did with Grace Kelly or Ingrid Bergmann? Did he have an actor he was particularly fond of using as a stand-in for himself like Truffaut did with Jean-Pierre Léaud or Lynch did with Kyle Maclachlan for awhile
Didn't mean to ignore these questions, Donny Boy.
Although he married two of his actresses, I don't think it would be fair to say they became his muses--except, yes, in the case of Anna Karina, well, maybe a little.
Vivre Sa Vie is probably a movie as much (or more) about Karina than about the ostensible prostitute lead character. Godard purposely allows us to "see" her beneath her character (and his relationship with her) in this film.
Interestingly enough, although Truffaut used Léaud as his surrogate in his Doinel films, Léaud, I believe, has gone on record as saying he felt a closer connection to Godard and Godard's work. (In case you didn't know, Godard used Léaud in some of his films as well:
La Chinoise, Masculine Feminine, Le Gai Savoir, etc.) He regarded Truffaut's films as too traditional and bourgeois (I'm paraphrasing) and didn't particularly care for his own implicit association with Truffaut's conservative politics. But, yes, in his narrative films, Godard definitely uses stand-ins for himself, but they aren't all the same actor (or even similar types of characters really).
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I find it very fascinating that you can use the word bourgeois with no sense of irony. How would one define such a word these days? Surely Truffaut's films wouldn't speak to the current herd of Starbuck's guzzling, Home Depot Shopping, Hedge Fund investing, Oprah Book Club reading, American bougeois. While I am sure Godard's films are infinitely more transgressive, and more effective counter-programming to battle cultural norms, surely Truffaut's films, at this point, could not be construed as bourgeois.
I used the Doinel films as an example because I actually have watched them more than once, and read the scripts(in English) as well. Just a ploy to join the conversation, I must plead ignorance beyond that. At least I didn't post Harry Connick's Moobs like our sweet sister Sarah.
I am very fascinated by the concept of 'muse'. How an other can be used a focal point or fulcrum or living shrine to magnify creative powers. There need not even be a sexual aspect to it. Tennessee Williams, world class sodomist, had female muses as well.
But, David, I am disappointed in you. You failed to comment on the most clever part of my post, which was:
'Wiamzemsky! Wow! That is the most beautiful woman I have ever seen pose with a Donkey.'
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message 37:
by
David
(last edited 07/08/2008 06:49AM)
07/08/2008 06:47AM
I find it very fascinating that you can use the word bourgeois with no sense of irony.
Donny Boy, I was just trying to convey
Léaud's attitude (at a time when revolutionary [read: Marxist-flavored] politics/activism were at a fever pitch in Paris). That was a different world, so don't shoot the messenger (or the piano player).
By "bourgeois" in this case, I think what would be meant is highly subjective (as opposed to the
alleged objectivism of Marxism), individualistic (as opposed to collective or socially conscious), and narrative (as opposed to, say, Brechtianism or agit-prop). "Bourgeois" is indeed a loaded, indistinct term that means a lot of different things to a lot of different people.
I appreciated your donkey comment very much, Donald, but I didn't want to spoil it by beating a dead--er, donkey. (Maybe I should have said: "Check out that ass!")
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When I hear words like agit-prop I reach for my revolver, to paraphrase everybody's favorite bald, vulgar, and ultimately hog-tied fascist dictator.
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Actually I like agit-Prop material. It is either really funny or it pisses people off. Both is good!
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The NY Times has reviewed the book...
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07...Sounds like a must-read if only for this reason:
"Now we know how one of the greatest of all filmmakers — the man who so radically changed cinema in 1959 with his debut feature, “Breathless” — became an intolerable gasbag."
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message 41:
by
David
(last edited 07/12/2008 02:45PM)
07/12/2008 02:01PM
Would it be inappropriate to say that Stephanie Zacharek is herself a gasbag? Well, to hell with appropriate. She is.
The two later-period Godard films she cites as examples of alienating viewers (
Prenom: Carmen and
Notre Musique) are probably two of the more human and accessible of Godard's post-1968 output. Which begs the question... Has she even watched most of these films?
There's no doubt about it... It's always fashionable to snipe and take pop shots at the purported Masters (especially when their style or themes become passe in the dominant culture), and yes, like many other Masters, he was and is a major asshole.
But so far, this book is a real page-turner about a gifted man who--love him or hate him--changed the face of cinema. It's a helluva lot better book about Godard than any other I've seen out there.
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It's funny but I don't separate Godard's work in sections. He's an artist who keeps moving on - and i think the best way to look at his work is to look at everything he does. That's why he and the work is so fascinating.
The reveiwer in the NYT, is looking at the films such as the early work is the best, but I think one can even get new insights into Godard's early 60's films by seeing the new work, and see how it plays with the older work.
So in other words I believe the reviewer is missing the big picture.
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Damn. This group dropped dead.
I'm somewhere around page 240ish. The book's discussing
Two or Three Things I Know About Her and
Made in U.S.A.. I am sorry to say I have never seen the latter film. (Since it's from Godard's "golden era," I'm not sure why it's not available in the U.S. Ditto for
A Married Woman. I saw part of it on video years ago in a poorly dubbed version... and I can't stand dubbed films.)
I'm not sure what to make of Brody's psychologizing of Godard. Every film Godard made in the early 60s except
Breathless, in Brody's interpretation at least, is an unveiled message to Anna Karina about their faltering relationship. One wonders to what degree this is speculation and how or if it can be "confirmed" in any way. Nonetheless, an interesting theory.
Also, there's an awkward and out-of-place chapter on American film criticism's role (e.g., Andrew Sarris and Pauline Kael) with respect to the French New Wave. Doesn't feel well-integrated or very pertinent and probably reflects the author's own interests.
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I have the book in at the library, will pick it up tomorrow and rush to catch up. I also plan to grab a couple of his films, maybe from this era, watch 'em against/with Brody's readings.
About the psychologizing, the Karina theory of '60s Godard: is it an interesting theory insofar as it opens up the filmmaker or insofar as it opens up the films? (I'm wondering if you'd expand a bit, David.)
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Mike, "interesting" insofar as it makes me see the films very differently. I never imagined Godard was a terribly "personal" filmmaker. Having said that, I must confess that the "person" that this theory fleshes out isn't very sympathetic--not that this has any bearing on the quality of his films. His films, in this framework, are an attempt to scold, abase, or occasionally humiliate Karina. This is sorta odd because his films usually always make me like and sympathize with Karina['s characters:]. (I used to wish he would do another film with Karina, but now I realize how impossible this probably is.)
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That is some good writing, Brian. You are a talented fuck.
Great David E. story, sounds just like he is here.
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