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The Forgotten Garden
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The Forgotten Garden by Kate Morton - August BOM Anything Goes - Start Date August 2
I'll attempt to put up a schedule, but I may be out of town for a portion of this so we will probably need some help posting questions. Who's reading this one.
I'll be reading this, though the going will be slow, as I'm remodeling my house. Bear with me, please.
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Lisa Kay, Archduchess of Audio
(last edited Aug 01, 2012 09:17pm)
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This is a chunkster...So far, it looks like just you and me, Parvathy. I posted the chapter breakdown above. Are you reading Bitterblue, also? I'd like to take a break in this one about the 7th, but that would put us over into the 12th, when Bitterblue starts.
I haven't read the first books in the Graceling series so not going to read Bitterblue. But its OK if you want to take a break in between. If you want any help posting questions please let me know.
It was a long time since I participated in the BOM discussion. This book is long on my to-read list. I think it will much more enjoyable if we read it and solve the mystery together.Count me in. :)
I think I'll join this one too. I just have to put down the book I'm reading down which is surprisingly hard to do!
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Lisa Kay, Archduchess of Audio
(last edited Aug 02, 2012 04:33pm)
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rated it 4 stars
That's great to hear, Dragana & Vi! Welcome.I changed the 7th to a "break/catch-up" day.
I started the book last night, but fell asleep in the middle of Chapter 4. (Not the book, I'm just exhausted.) Should have the DQs up sometime this morning or afternoon, if I don't get interrupted.
Thank you Lisa Kay.I really like the idea of a catch-up day and since this is a real chunkster, I think we are going to need it. :)
I still did not start the book, I plan to do it later probably tonight.
Dragana wrote: "I really like the idea of a catch-up day and since this is a real chunkster, I think we are going to need it. :)"Me, too!
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Lisa Kay, Archduchess of Audio
(last edited Aug 03, 2012 07:22pm)
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The Forgotten Garden Buddy ReadLisa Kay’s Questions for Chapters 1 - 6
1. What genre do you think this book falls within? Mystery? Romance? Magical Realism? Or just Fiction?
2. Do you like this author’s “voice”? Have you read anything by her before?
3. This book is jumping around a lot in the different time periods. Are you keeping them all straight? Does that bother you? Or are you just going with the flow? (I’m trying to figure out Cassandra’s age in 1976. Grade Five is about nine or ten, right?)
4. Did your heart ache for Nell, abandoned in London? What a mystery! Did you notice that she thought she was going to America, yet the ship arrived in Australia?
5. Who is the Authoress? Will she play a significant part of in this novel? Is she Eliza Makepeace, the author of Magical Tales for Girls and Boy?
6. Should Nell’s ‘adoptive’ parents, Hugh the dockmaster, and Lil have kept Nell? I get the impression that Lil was unable to have children; it appears this played a significant part in their decision. I was a bit shocked they were thinking of moving to hide the fact that Nell wasn’t their niece? Should Hugh have ever told Nell about her past?
7. Do most people take their family connections and sense of self for granted? Do you? Have there been family secrets in your family that have been revealed over the years?
8. After Nell’s reaction to her ‘adoptive’ father, could you understand why Phyllis and Dot didn’t reveal to Nell that they knew about her past, even though it was decades later?
9. Interesting the way the Nell’s white suitcase was described, wasn’t it? And that Cassandra knew what was in it! I was surprised by that reveal.
10. Does Nell’s house reflect her personality? Are Nell and Cassandra similar personalities? Or is it too early to tell? (I certainly could relate to Cassandra’s inability to resist a book! LOL!)
11. What is your impression of Nell? Of Cassandra? I don’t get the impression that Cassandra is afraid of Nell; she’s just cautious around adults. What do you think? Do you have any particular likes or dislikes of the secondary characters?
12. Well, at least we know a bit about what is in that mysterious old suitcase. Did anything, besides the fairy tale book, catch your attention? Will we be treated to the fairy tales inside?
13. Do you think a child the age of four should be able to remember her past? Did the fever that accompanies typhoid cause Nell to have some memory loss?
Lisa Kay’s Questions for Chapters 1 - 6 1. What genre do you think this book falls within? Mystery? Romance? Magical Realism? Or just Fiction?
I think it may fall into all of the catagories. It has a bit of mystery with not knowing where Nell came from. I think there is going to be a bit of a romance somewhere in there and it may or may not have some Magical Realism. I am not sure yet. I am interested in finding out more. It is reminding me of the other book we read "The Rose Garden".
2. Do you like this author’s “voice”? Have you read anything by her before?
This is my first Kate Morten book. I am liking it so far but it is a bit early to tell much about her voice.
3. This book is jumping around a lot in the different time periods. Are you keeping them all straight? Does that bother you? Or are you just going with the flow? (I’m trying to figure out Cassandra’s age in 1976. Grade Five is about nine or ten, right?)
I think it says that she is ten which would be about right as far as Grade Five goes. I am not having a hard time keeping things straight but I do get a bit annoyed with all the jumping around. I think sometimes the author can pull off the same effect in a much more simple way.
4. Did your heart ache for Nell, abandoned in London? What a mystery! Did you notice that she thought she was going to America, yet the ship arrived in Australia?
I thought this whole thing fascinating. Who was the woman who left her on the ship? I felt horrible for her. I am surprised though that the parents didn't make more of an effort to find their child. Surely they had some idea of what could have happened. I am thinking they left her there on purpose.
5. Who is the Authoress? Will she play a significant part of in this novel? Is she Eliza Makepeace, the author of Magical Tales for Girls and Boy?
I am betting the Authoress is a mistress of her dad or something crazy like that. Maybe she is a nanny or something. I definitely think she is the author of Magical Tales for Girls and Boys.
6. Should Nell’s ‘adoptive’ parents, Hugh the dockmaster, and Lil have kept Nell? I get the impression that Lil was unable to have children; it appears this played a significant part in their decision. I was a bit shocked they were thinking of moving to hide the fact that Nell wasn’t their niece? Should Hug have ever told Nell about her past?
I think he did the right thing in telling her, however, I think they should have told her long ago. I also think it was wrong of them to ever stop trying to find out who she really was. I feel for her that she couldn't have children, but wasn't adoption a regular thing back them as well? I understand why they did it, but I think it was wrong of them to keep it from Nell for so long.
7. Do most people take their family connections and sense of self for granted? Do you? Have there been family secrets in your family that have been revealed over the years?
I think that often times we don't think about our family pasts very often. I make a point to ask my grandparents about their childhoods and what it was like growing up because I want to know all of the things I can about my family. There are family secrets to this day about my mom's biological father that I still don't know. It is some what bothersome that no one will tell me about him.
8. After Nell’s reaction to her ‘adoptive’ father, could you understand why Phyllis and Dot didn’t reveal to Nell that they knew about her past, even though it was decades later?
Yes. I also think that Nell's reaction was a bit over the top. It should have been obvious to her that her "father" loved her very much and was only doing what he thought was best. She should have been more forgiving as her life could have been much worse and you can't change the past or others mistakes.
9. Interesting the way the Nell’s white suitcase was described, wasn’t it? And that Cassandra knew what was in it! I was surprised by that reveal.
It was interesting hearing about the suitcase and the fact that Cassandra knew what was in it. I can't wait to read more about it.
10. Does Nell’s house reflect her personality? Are Nell and Cassandra similar personalities? Or is it too early to tell? (I certainly could relate to Cassandra’s inability to resist a book! LOL!)
I think they have the common bond of feeling abandoned. I am not sure if they have similar personalities or just similar experiences that have shaped their lives. I think that it is a bit early to tell. As for the house, I don't feel like I know enough about Nell yet to be able to tell if her house reflects her personality or not.
11. What is your impression of Nell? Of Cassandra? I don’t get the impression that Cassandra is afraid of Nell; she’s just cautious around adults. What do you think? Do you have any particular likes or dislikes of the secondary characters?
I liked Nell at first and then I was annoyed by how she let the secret affect her life. I don't know if I am being to harsh on her or not. I like Cassandra a lot as I can relate to her shyness around adults. I think that her experiences are the cause of this. I don't think she is scared of her grandmother either. I think it just has to do with her early childhood experiences with Len and Lesley. I don't think I like either of them very much.
12. Well, at least we know a bit about what is in that mysterious old suitcase. Did anything, besides the fairy tale book, catch your attention? Will we be treated to the fairy tales inside?
The hairbrush caught my attention. I am wondering how that is going to fit into the story. I hope we get a glimpse of the fairy tale book later on. It sounds really interesting.
13. Do you think a child the age of four should be able to remember her past? Did the fever that accompanies typhoid cause Nell to have some memory loss?
I think that she chose to forget. I don't think she truly forgot anything. I also think it had something with the fear of getting in trouble for not following directions that caused her to put it in the back of her mind and not think of it any more.
@ Laura#1 – I didn’t read The Rose Garden - though I peeked in to the discussion occasionally and kind of wished I had.
#2 – I’ve never read anything by this author before. So far, I’m liking what I “hear” in her “voice.” We’ll see.
#3 – Yeah, in the next reading section it is clear that her age is ten. Thanks!
#4 – I don’t mind when an author does this; however, some of the jumps weren’t a smooth or clear as they could have been. In the next section, I believe, she does a jump and then the character has a ‘flashback’ type of episode and I wasn’t sure when she came back to her present and had to re-read it. (Actually, I’m listening to it, but I also bought the Kindle version, so I did a search.)
#5 – Mind Meld! I was thinking mistress at first, too!
#6 – I was wondering about “adoption” in that time and place, also. I know a little earlier (1900’s) it was pretty standard to take in a foundling. But seems 1913 was a little more formalized.
#7 – Yes, that “every family has secrets” statement rang true for me. They especially like to come out when someone has died – or is about to get married, or had a baby. My ex’s grandfather would never say anything about his heritage or than he was born in Austria. He came to America before the start of WWII and as far as he was concerned, he was American. Lots more, with healthy babies being born 6 months after a marriage to the most straight-laced couple, even back in the day. Hey, it happens.
#8 – Yes, I definitely have ambivalent feelings about Nell’s reaction. At times I feel she was way over the top. It was obvious her father adored her. But, having been adopted myself (at age four, so I remember my biological parents), I see some of her issues about “who am I?” But NOT all. I guess because my adoptive parents were so loving, and I knew all along. No shock value.
#9 – Yes, I thought the suitcase set-up – with our being informed that Cassandra knew the contents – was a great way to make me intrigued.
#10 – True.
#11 – Yeah, I was annoyed with her, too. Especially letting it ruin the ‘love of her life’ – if that part is true. Totally love Cassandra; I think the author does a great job of revealing a shy child’s through process.
#12 – Yes! Absolutely. Interested in the silver hairbrush.
#13 – Interesting. You are making me think. After reading your answer, I definitely think her fear of not following directions was a component.
@Lisa Kay#1- You missed out! I thought it was a really good book and will be reading more Susanna Kearsley in the future.
#8-I have never been through adoption myself, but my cousin was adopted at the age of two. She always knew she was adopted and had a very loving family. She said she has no desire to ever meet her biological family. I think that hearing her talk about her family and why she feels the way she does about herself and her adoption, I just find it odd that Nell reacted the way she did.
#13-Good to know that I am making someone think! ;)
Yeah, Laura, I never had a desire to search out my birth mother and father... but then I remembered them. I never understood what the big deal was with other people wanting to track down someone who didn't want you. Still, every story is different. Plus, I knew my biological mother; she actually sent me birthday presents every year. She didn't have a drop of maternal instinct in her. Still, she was smart enough to give us up.My other brother and I were adopted as a "set" - and my younger brother actually tracked me down a few years ago. He had a sad life going from one foster home to another while growing up, which I'm glad I didn't know about as a child. I always thought he got adopted by a nurse & doctor. Still, in many ways, I think he is much happier than my older brother or me. He is just the neatest person. Very kind, gentle, and loving and very involved in his church.
Eventually, he was "kind of" adopted (he was told, but it turned out he wasn't) when he was a teen. He was also told by the same woman that he family were all killed in a car accident. Why would she say that? The woman was weird! Anyway, his wife insisted he check into it all, and I must say I have changed my tune on the whole tracking down thing. You just never know about secrets, half-truths, and lies.
Wow, what a story Lisa Kay! I am glad that adoption seemed to be kind to you. I know that isn't always the case and different people react in different ways. I find these types of stories fascinating. Speaking of adoption, have you heard of the Dominique Monceanu story that has come out recently. I think partly because of the Olympics and partly because of her new book.
If not the adoption story of her sister is very touching. You can find the video of the interview on You Tube.
No, I haven't heard of it. I'm not watching the Olympics, except for the Opening Ceremonies (at a friend's house) because my T.V. is under a tarp. I'll have to check it out. Thanks, Laura!
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Lisa Kay, Archduchess of Audio
(last edited Aug 02, 2012 10:50pm)
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Lisa Kay’s Questions for Chapters 7 - 12
14. Did you find it interesting that Nell and Cassandra get along so well, when Nell couldn’t connect with her daughter? Do some people just not get along due to chemistry? Or maybe it wass due to Nell’s maturing?
15. If you’ve read the synopsis, you know that Cassandra tries to solve the mystery of Nell. What then brought Nell to England? Any predictions as to why she had a house there? Was it bought or inherited? Was she planning on moving there? If so, why didn’t she stay?
16. What does Cassandra mean when she thinks about Ben remembering “the way she used to be”? And her inability/unwillingness to “recover her old self”? What gives? Is she really thin now, or more melancholy now that Nell is gone, or what?
17. Can you understand Nell’s sense of “foreignness” after learning she wasn’t Hugh & Lil’s natural child? How about her legacy of abandonment that she feels she inherited from her own mother? Or is this more evidence of her being a bit melodrama? Is she just a “passionate” person?
18. Alright, let me see if I’ve got the facts right. It is Hugh’s death – in approximately 1975 – that causes Nell to rediscover/remember the suitcase, inducing her to hire a private investigator into the whereabouts of Eliza Makepeace, right? Because I was wondering why she hadn’t done so sooner, if she felt so much like a “shadow”. Comments.
19. I must say, I was shocked again about Hugh’s decision about Henry Mansell’s letter, were you? Paints him with a little darker brush, IMHO. Comments.
20. Hmmm…Nathaniel Walker is artistic and Cassandra is artistic. Think there is a connection?
21. You probably don’t know this, but I have a ‘thing’ about amnesia plotlines. I’m a nurse, so I know amnesia is almost non-existent. Still, I love them, especially when there are multiple contributing factors. Are you buying this one? If so, why?
22. What is the significance of Cassandra’s dream, that if she only walked “in the right direction” she’d find that someone for whom she’d been looking? Why is it Cassandra’s dream and not Nell’s? Why does it change?
23. What did you think of “The Crone’s Eyes”? How about the ending? Old fairy tales have a little bit of “gruesomeness” to them. Did its ending work for you?
24. Just curious. Which book covers do you like the best?
message 26:
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Lisa Kay, Archduchess of Audio
(last edited Aug 03, 2012 07:20pm)
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rated it 4 stars
Went ahead and posted tomorrows DQs. Tomorrow looks to be a busy day for me. I'll try to touch base through-out the day (can't stay away from GRs), but I may not be able to respond to your answers until tomorrow night.
1. What genre do you think this book falls within? Mystery? Romance? Magical Realism? Or just Fiction? Lets see. There is this mystery about Nell's background. The whole fairy tale thing has a kind of magical realism feel to it. Then there is this story about Nell and Danny which feels like a romantic tragedy. Since this book is fiction I would say all of the above.
2. Do you like this author’s “voice”? Have you read anything by her before?
No, I haven't read anything by this author before. But I like her narrative style. Simple and to the point.
3. This book is jumping around a lot in the different time periods. Are you keeping them all straight? Does that bother you? Or are you just going with the flow? (I’m trying to figure out Cassandra’s age in 1976. Grade Five is about nine or ten, right?)
The book jumping around different time periods is kind of inconvenient. Keeping track of the characters ages is a bit difficult but still the author manages to draw your interest to the present timeline so can't complain much. In India in grade 5 you are 10 years old so Cassandra might be 39 years old.
4. Did your heart ache for Nell, abandoned in London? What a mystery! Did you notice that she thought she was going to America, yet the ship arrived in Australia?
Yes, I did feel bad for Nell when she thought about her family. But I felt more bad for Cassandra because she was left behind by her own mother. At least in the case of Nell you are not sure whether she was abandoned or not. There is a line in the story where Nell's real parents saying something about going to America. So someone must have told her she was being taken there.
5. Who is the Authoress? Will she play a significant part of in this novel? Is she Eliza Makepeace, the author of Magical Tales for Girls and Boy?
I think she will be an integral part of the story and she is Eliza Makepeace. The only thing suspicious here is why Nell's mother and grandmother didn't want her to meet the authoress but her father took her regardless and kept it a secret
6. Should Nell’s ‘adoptive’ parents, Hugh the dockmaster, and Lil have kept Nell? I get the impression that Lil was unable to have children; it appears this played a significant part in their decision. I was a bit shocked they were thinking of moving to hide the fact that Nell wasn’t their niece? Should Hug have ever told Nell about her past?
I can't say I am against their decision to keep Nell. Otherwise where would you send a 3 year old girl with no memory of who she is? But after going to all this trouble to keep the secret I don't approve of Hugh's decision to tell her the truth all of a sudden. It is like letting you know you were living a lie all this time.
7. Do most people take their family connections and sense of self for granted? Do you? Have there been family secrets in your family that have been revealed over the years?
Yes, I do thing people take family connections for granted. They don't know the value of what they have. I do take my family granted sometimes but there are other times when I am truly grateful. All families have secrets, mine is not an exception but it is nothing I don't know about or haven't guessed already
8. After Nell’s reaction to her ‘adoptive’ father, could you understand why Phyllis and Dot didn’t reveal to Nell that they knew about her past, even though it was decades later?
I could understand their decision. If Nell didn't find it necessary to tell them then she might have had strong convictions regarding her sisters reactions. But I think they should have told her. Would have made it easier on her I guess
9. Interesting the way the Nell’s white suitcase was described, wasn’t it? And that Cassandra knew what was in it! I was surprised by that reveal.
I pretty much guessed that the suitcase would contain the fairy tale book after reading the synopsis
10. Does Nell’s house reflect her personality? Are Nell and Cassandra similar personalities? Or is it too early to tell? (I certainly could relate to Cassandra’s inability to resist a book! LOL!)
Don't know for sure, not much familiar with Nell's personality or Cassandra's for that matter. But I am confused about Cassandra wanting to hide when she reads. I for one would like to brag when I reading a book. Look everyone I am a voracious reader LOL!
11. What is your impression of Nell? Of Cassandra? I don’t get the impression that Cassandra is afraid of Nell; she’s just cautious around adults. What do you think? Do you have any particular likes or dislikes of the secondary characters?
Not yet but it is true early
12. Well, at least we know a bit about what is in that mysterious old suitcase. Did anything, besides the fairy tale book, catch your attention? Will we be treated to the fairy tales inside?
All those messages written in a different language and the photograph did catch my attention other than the book
13. Do you think a child the age of four should be able to remember her past? Did the fever that accompanies typhoid cause Nell to have some memory loss?
I still remember some of the things that happened when I was four years old. but looking at it from a four year olds perspective who was taken away from her family I think the memory loss would have been understandable eventually but not all of a sudden
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Lisarenee, your friendly neighborhood moderator
(last edited Aug 03, 2012 10:06am)
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Lisa Kay, I think you should do a cover war for this one.
@ Parvathy #2 – I like her “narrative style,” too!
#4 – True; we don’t know that Nell was abandoned.
#5 – I’m thinking “good question” here!
#6 – True. I also think there is a big difference between a four year old that just turned four and one that is six to eight months older. A lot of growing takes place then.
#7 – Yes, so “family secrets” are not that much of a riddle!
#9 – I hadn’t read the synopsis in a while… didn’t remember the fairy tale aspect, so didn’t know.
#10 – LOL!
#12 – Yes! Interesting.
Lisa Kay’s Questions for Chapters 7 - 12 14. Did you find it interesting that Nell and Cassandra get along so well, when Nell couldn’t connect with her daughter? Do some people just not get along due to chemistry? Or maybe it wass due to Nell’s maturing?
I think that it has a lot to do with the abandonment they both had in common. I did find it strange though that Nell didn't connect with her daughter at all. I thought it just had something to do with her daughter's attitude, but I think it was much more than that. I am not sure if I think it has to do with chemistry so much as upbringing and experiences that people have.
15. If you’ve read the synopsis, you know that Cassandra tries to solve the mystery of Nell. What then brought Nell to England? Any predictions as to why she had a house there? Was it bought or inherited? Was she planning on moving there? If so, why didn’t she stay?
I am assuming Nell finally found out something of her family through the investigator that she hired. My first thought was that the house was inherited, but then I thought, surely she would have inherited the mansion as well? I am thinking she bought it when she found out more about her family and where she used to live. I think she was definitely planning on going back but Cassandra caused her to change her plans. I am surprised she didn't tell Cassandra earlier and have her help figure things out.
16. What does Cassandra mean when she thinks about Ben remembering “the way she used to be”? And her inability/unwillingness to “recover her old self”? What gives? Is she really thin now, or more melancholy now that Nell is gone, or what?
I wondered this myself. I think that she meant two ways. One, he must have known her before her husband died and he saw how she was. I also think maybe he means that she isn't the same since Nell died. It sounds like she is listless and a true loner. I am sure she doesn't take care of herself the way she should, so she is probably thinner as well.
17. Can you understand Nell’s sense of “foreignness” after learning she wasn’t Hugh & Lil’s natural child? How about her legacy of abandonment that she feels she inherited from her own mother? Or is this more evidence of her being a bit melodrama? Is she just a “passionate” person?
I can understand her feeling of abandonment, but her feelings about her father seem a bit silly. It is obvious that he loved her very much and thought of her as his own. If she couldn't see that, then she needed a swift kick in the rear.
18. Alright, let me see if I’ve got the facts right. It is Hugh’s death – in approximately 1975 – that causes Nell to rediscover/remember the suitcase, inducing her to hire a private investigator into the whereabouts of Eliza Makepeace, right? Because I was wondering why she hadn’t done so sooner, if she felt so much like a “shadow”. Comments.
I think you are right. It sounds like Hugh kept it from her until he died. I am wondering if he kept it from her because he was scared of what would happen if she found out the secret of her past? It seems really cruel that he would keep it from her, knowing how it was affecting her.
19. I must say, I was shocked again about Hugh’s decision about Henry Mansell’s letter, were you? Paints him with a little darker brush, IMHO. Comments.
I was upset that he wasn't the upstanding character I thought him to be. I agree with you, I think it puts him in a darker spot and I was shocked by the revelation.
20. Hmmm…Nathaniel Walker is artistic and Cassandra is artistic. Think there is a connection?
I think maybe they are related. I was wondering if he wasn't Nell's true father?
21. You probably don’t know this, but I have a ‘thing’ about amnesia plotlines. I’m a nurse, so I know amnesia is almost non-existent. Still, I love them, especially when there are multiple contributing factors. Are you buying this one? If so, why?
I am not buying this one at all. I know the author painted a picture of her illness causing the amnesia, but I still don't think it is plausible or likely. I think that Nell chose to forget because the truth was too scary and hurtful.
22. What is the significance of Cassandra’s dream, that if she only walked “in the right direction” she’d find that someone for whom she’d been looking? Why is it Cassandra’s dream and not Nell’s? Why does it change?
To be honest, I was a bit confused by this whole dream thing. I don't know if it has any connection to her relationship with her grandmother or what. Maybe we will see what it means later on in the book.
23. What did you think of “The Crone’s Eyes”? How about the ending? Old fairy tales have a little bit of “gruesomeness” to them. Did its ending work for you?
I liked it. I thought it was unique and different take on old fairy tales. I thought the ending was perfect.
24. Just curious. Which book covers do you like the best?
Second row, third book. I also like last row second book.
Good morning. I'm out of coffee, so excuse me if my answers are a little bit muddled. :DLisa Kay’s Questions for Chapters 1 - 6
1. What genre do you think this book falls within? Mystery? Romance? Magical Realism? Or just Fiction?
There is a little bit of mystery and historical and no magical realism so far, but I think that fiction is the best description of genre so far.
2. Do you like this author’s “voice”? Have you read anything by her before?
I didn't read anything by Kate Morton before. She has an easy style of writing, the reading goes pretty quick. Although sometimes she goes wandering in her description and does not go straight to the point. But as I said it is easy read so it is no hardship if there are a little bit more pages... :)
3. This book is jumping around a lot in the different time periods. Are you keeping them all straight? Does that bother you? Or are you just going with the flow? (I’m trying to figure out Cassandra’s age in 1976. Grade Five is about nine or ten, right?)
I though I will be bothered with a lot of jumping, but I think it makes it easier that basically there are the same characters. So you could say I am going with the flow.
4. Did your heart ache for Nell, abandoned in London? What a mystery! Did you notice that she thought she was going to America, yet the ship arrived in Australia?
Yes that was the confusing bit, it messed a little bit with my keeping-up with plot.
5. Who is the Authoress? Will she play a significant part of in this novel? Is she Eliza Makepeace, the author of Magical Tales for Girls and Boy?
I don't know why but somehow I though that she was the headmistress of school or orphanage where Nell was in England... Did not connect her with Eliza Makepeace, but there is a chance that it is possible.
6. Should Nell’s ‘adoptive’ parents, Hugh the dockmaster, and Lil have kept Nell? I get the impression that Lil was unable to have children; it appears this played a significant part in their decision. I was a bit shocked they were thinking of moving to hide the fact that Nell wasn’t their niece? Should Hugh have ever told Nell about her past?
Well, all in all, I think they did the right thing, although they could have reported her to some authorities, but probably they were afraid that they would have taken her. And I think that they did right to tell her the truth, that's not a thing to keep it secret. They should have given her the suitcase then also...
7. Do most people take their family connections and sense of self for granted? Do you? Have there been family secrets in your family that have been revealed over the years?
No family secrets so far. My family is what you see is what you get (at least so far). :)
8. After Nell’s reaction to her ‘adoptive’ father, could you understand why Phyllis and Dot didn’t reveal to Nell that they knew about her past, even though it was decades later?
Yes I could understand.
9. Interesting the way the Nell’s white suitcase was described, wasn’t it? And that Cassandra knew what was in it! I was surprised by that reveal.
Yes that suitcase sounded very fancy and rich. Only added more mystery air to Nell's origins.
10. Does Nell’s house reflect her personality? Are Nell and Cassandra similar personalities? Or is it too early to tell? (I certainly could relate to Cassandra’s inability to resist a book! LOL!)
So far, they do seem similar. And I could definitely relate to Cassandra's love of books. I also hid when I was reading as a child/teenager. As she said 'something so enjoyable must surely be wrong'...
11. What is your impression of Nell? Of Cassandra? I don’t get the impression that Cassandra is afraid of Nell; she’s just cautious around adults. What do you think? Do you have any particular likes or dislikes of the secondary characters?
I think that Cassandra's caution around adults is connected to her mothers husband/boyfriend (Len ?). He definitely yelled at her I don't know if he beat her also...
12. Well, at least we know a bit about what is in that mysterious old suitcase. Did anything, besides the fairy tale book, catch your attention? Will we be treated to the fairy tales inside?
I am intrigued to learn what is in those letters. Maybe there is a clue for Nell's identity...
13. Do you think a child the age of four should be able to remember her past? Did the fever that accompanies typhoid cause Nell to have some memory loss?
I think she should remember her past, maybe she just wanted to forget or was ordered to not say anything?
14. Did you find it interesting that Nell and Cassandra get along so well, when Nell couldn’t connect with her daughter? Do some people just not get along due to chemistry? Or maybe it wass due to Nell’s maturing? Nell maturing would be my bet. Maybe she lived with the regret of not being a good Mom to Leslie for a long time and when Cassandra landed at her doorstep she might have thought she was given a second chance.
15. If you’ve read the synopsis, you know that Cassandra tries to solve the mystery of Nell. What then brought Nell to England? Any predictions as to why she had a house there? Was it bought or inherited? Was she planning on moving there? If so, why didn’t she stay?
It seems Nell always thought she was missing something not knowing her real family or the real reason why anyone would give her up. The same feelings are evident when she justifies her actions when she decides to break off her engagement. She might have bought the house, while trying to find out more about her past. She would have moved there permanently if not for Cassandra.
16. What does Cassandra mean when she thinks about Ben remembering “the way she used to be”? And her inability/unwillingness to “recover her old self”? What gives? Is she really thin now, or more melancholy now that Nell is gone, or what?
I think something significant happened in Cassandra's life after which she had to move in with Nell. From the flashbacks Cassandra as Nell would say it is portrayed as a "Cheeky girl" but that playful side is not much seen in her present self. She keeps referring to her marriage to Nicholas, how they had plans but how she has long buried them and all that. I think Cassandra was suffering from melancholy even before Nell's death.
17. Can you understand Nell’s sense of “foreignness” after learning she wasn’t Hugh & Lil’s natural child? How about her legacy of abandonment that she feels she inherited from her own mother? Or is this more evidence of her being a bit melodrama? Is she just a “passionate” person?
I would say she is a bit melodramatic or I may feel so because I can't empathize with her. Nell seems like a person who gives much importance to blood ties. Like when she knew about her little sister she instantly knew she would be the one to protect her. Feeling happy when they needed her an all that. I think she was trying to imitate Lil when she did all that. Then she came to know that her real mother was someone else and she might have abandoned her. Which would have made her feel like she would also be a bad mother. I think the feeling was so deep rooted that she couldn't even love her own child. I also think that the love she feels for Cassandra is not because of the reason that she is her grand daughter but because she sees herself in Cassandra.
18. Alright, let me see if I’ve got the facts right. It is Hugh’s death – in approximately 1975 – that causes Nell to rediscover/remember the suitcase, inducing her to hire a private investigator into the whereabouts of Eliza Makepeace, right? Because I was wondering why she hadn’t done so sooner, if she felt so much like a “shadow”. Comments.
Even though she felt like a shadow all those years, she must have loved her father very much. Till his death she might have thought her father would provide her with answers. But his death and the return of her suitcase must have acted like a wake up call, telling her that there is nothing stopping her now from finding out about her past. Also the fairy tale book acted like a trigger letting her remember about the authoress, ship and all. So she had more information to go by.
19. I must say, I was shocked again about Hugh’s decision about Henry Mansell’s letter, were you? Paints him with a little darker brush, IMHO. Comments.
I was kind of shocked. I thought he must have at least told his wife about the letter and she must have changed his mind. Now knowing that it was his decision to keep the letter a secret, I find it hard to justify his action of confessing to Nell about her parentage. Or atleast he should have told her she wasn't abandoned but her parents did look for her. He should have confessed the whole truth and not just parts of it. I think Nell's life would have been different if he had told her the entire truth
20. Hmmm…Nathaniel Walker is artistic and Cassandra is artistic. Think there is a connection?
Connection .... Nathaniel is Nell's father and that would make him Cassandra's great grandfather. The authoress wrote stories and her father did illustrations .. there is something there. Also the little Nell remembers that authoress told her that they would never be separated and they would be together when she asked Nell to hide. All this can lead to some strong connections in the future.
21. You probably don’t know this, but I have a ‘thing’ about amnesia plotlines. I’m a nurse, so I know amnesia is almost non-existent. Still, I love them, especially when there are multiple contributing factors. Are you buying this one? If so, why?
Typhoid with a head injury leading to Amnesia and that too to a child of hardly 4 years. Sorry not buying it. Children have good memory, their brain is in the developing stage at which time a memory loss like this is not probable
22. What is the significance of Cassandra’s dream, that if she only walked “in the right direction” she’d find that someone for whom she’d been looking? Why is it Cassandra’s dream and not Nell’s? Why does it change?
May be Nell also had the same dream we cannot be sure. To know more about why Cassandra has this dream I think we should no more about her past
23. What did you think of “The Crone’s Eyes”? How about the ending? Old fairy tales have a little bit of “gruesomeness” to them. Did its ending work for you?
I think the first part of the fairy tale resembles Cassandra's and Nell's story. Nell wanted to know about her past and just when she was about to Cassandra came to her and she abandoned the pursuit. Now it is up to Cassandra to finish the tale. Cassandra must have also forgotten her true self and this journey will be an eye opener for her. I liked the end of the tale because the witch knew who she was before her death. Similarly even though Nell died without knowing her past her she was content because she had Cassandra. Maybe Nell's legacy would help Cassandra to overcome her grief
24. Just curious. Which book covers do you like the best?
Second Row, Second book from the left. Also the first row third book from left and the last row second book from the left
@Parvathy17. I agree about Nell's feelings about blood ties. I think this is a huge factor in why she just couldn't get over the secret.
23. I like your explanation of the fairy tale, but I am not sure that I think Nell had peace. I think if she had peace about her past then she wouldn't have been dreaming about the authoress before she died. I think if she had finally had peace then she would have at least acted a bit more like her old self towards the end, not the new Nell that is introverted and somewhat hermit like.
24.Its neat to see the different covers that everyone likes. I also like the last row second book from the left!
Laura's Questions for Chapters 13-1825. So it sounds like Eliza is Nell's Aunt. Where you surprised by this? What do you think of her childhood? Do you think that it had a large influence on her fairy tales?
26. The story of Sammy was so sad. I felt terrible for Eliza. What did you think of the creepy game they were playing? Did you think it was odd for her to play a game like that in the first place? Do you think she went a little mad?
27. What do you think of Ruby and the exhibit? Do you think that Ruby will remember something more about Clara? What do you think the role of Clara is? It seems odd that she had these unfinished drawings. Did anyone else think that she was the daughter of Eliza Makepeace?
28. Were you surprised that Nell is actually Ivory, the daughter of Rose and Nathaniel Walker? I was more surprised by the fact that people thought Ivory died, I mean, they couldn't have had a body. Thoughts?
29. Why do you think Eliza sent Ivory away? Do you think she was doing it to protect her or do you think she had ill intent? Was it Ivory's grandparents that sent the note to Australia looking for Ivory? How did they know to look for her? I have so many questions....
30. Why do you think Nell didn't tell anyone about her lineage? Do you think she kept it secret because she didn't think anyone would believe her or did she have another reason?
@ Laura#14 – I agree about it being more than that. I’m of the 50/50 club on Nature vs Nurture.
#15 – Oh! I hadn’t thought of Cassandra’s arrival changing her plans. Hmmm…
#16 – Good point about the way she was b/f her husband died.
#17 – I agree with you about her father!
#19 & 20– Mind Meld!
#21 – LOL! Okay. I certainly think that is part of it. As a nurse, I have experience patient’s not remembering things after they’ve had a fever, but those things only involved the time surround the fever (onset, duration).
#22 – Maybe. Let’s hope.
#24 – Pretty! I like forth row/third book and third row/second book.
@ Dragana#2 – Yes, I do like her descriptions sometimes, but sometimes I just want to know the answer to the mystery! LOL!
#3 - ☺
#6 – Yes, is the authorizes had taken her, goodness only knows what would have happened to her. Though, eventually, it would have made it easier for Henry Mansell to find her. Still…
#7 – ☺
#10 – I thought they sound a bit alike.
#12 – Yes, I’d be reading those letters!
#13 – Definitely ordered not to say anything.
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@ Parvathy#14 – You point; probably both.
#15 – You, too? See, I didn’t even think of Cassandra being the cause of her not returning!
#16 – Ah! Yes. Could be.
#17 – Oh, I like your theories here.
#18 – Sounds good to me.
#19 – That is what I was thinking, too, that it was Lil; but Hugh did it all on his own. **shakes head** Completely agree that he should have told her someone was looking for her. **shakes head again** 6. All this could have been cleared up a bit, if her father had made a confession about Henry Mansell coming to look for her about six months after she arrived in Australia. I don’t think it makes sense that he didn’t, yet he gave her back the suitcase.
#21 – Not even, “Nice try.” ?? **hee hee**
#23 – Hmmm…
#24 – Your last choice is the one with the bonnet? I like that one, too.
Lisa Kay’s Answers to Laura's Questions for Chapters 13-18 25. So it sounds like Eliza is Nell's Aunt. Where you surprised by this? What do you think of her childhood? Do you think that it had a large influence on her fairy tales?
It does? I missed that connection. LOL! I’d better re-read.
26. The story of Sammy was so sad. I felt terrible for Eliza. What did you think of the creepy game they were playing? Did you think it was odd for her to play a game like that in the first place? Do you think she went a little mad?
The loathsome Mrs. Swindell’s treatment of Eliza and poor Sammy was almost too much for me to hear. I don’t mind that the author is taking her time with this story; I knew it was a “chunkster” going in; however, that part was almost unbearable.
27. What do you think of Roxy and the exhibit? Do you think that Roxy will remember something more about Clara? What do you think the role of Clara is? It seems odd that she had these unfinished drawings. Did anyone else think that she was the daughter of Eliza Makepeace?
Okay, Laura, who is Roxy? I even did a Kindle search and can’t find this name. There is a Rose, Nell’s mother. And Ben’s daughter Ruby. Clara’s mother was named Mary (the domestic that had the sketches.)
28. Were you surprised that Nell is actually Ivory, the daughter of Rose and Nathaniel Walker? I was more surprised by the fact that people thought Ivory died, I mean, they couldn't have had a body. Thoughts?
Really? I was thinking, “Geez. What is with Nell? Couldn’t she figure out that they thought little Ivory was dead? I didn’t think it was a hard stretch. Of course, I can see how Nell might have been shock at finding her name and in practically the same breath discovering she’s “dead”? Still, I wonder how Ivory Walker was reported to have died of scarlet fever (as Cassandra discovers)? Was this a mistake or posted on purpose?
29. Why do you think Eliza sent Ivory away? Do you think she was doing it to protect her or do you think she had ill intent? Was it Ivory's grandparents that sent the note to Australia looking for Ivory? How did they know to look for her? I have so many questions....
Something major happened that day. I’m trying to figure out the months – August or September. Nathaniel died in September in a railway accident…but I think Nell/Ivory sailed in August. (But I could be wrong!) Tons of mysteries to speculate! Whatever took place when Georgiana Mountrachet left home? Why did the account in in Mr. Snelgrove’s Bookshop say she was “unwed”? Is the Bad Man that Eliza was warned about the same one that Nell was warned about? What brought Eliza back into the “bosom of her maternal family”? Is Linus Mountrachet a Good Guy or maybe the Bad Man? Was it he or is his father Nell was warned about?
30. Why do you think Nell didn't tell anyone about her lineage? Do you think she kept it secret because she didn't think anyone would believe her or did she have another reason?
Not sure here. Maybe she wanted all the facts before she claimed anything. And Good Gravy Beans! I hope the bigoted Hatty/Harriet Swindell isn’t like her mother! However, it isn’t looking good for Nell.
@ Lisa Kay#26- I agree Mrs. Swindell was the meanest old lady I have read about in a long time. I was extremely angry with her.
#27-Oops, I meant Ruby. I don't know where I got Roxy from. I am gonna fix that in the questions.
#28-I guess I should have thought of the time period. It just seems odd that they didn't have a body to be able to pronounce her dead, but I guess back then they didn't have to do that? I think it was done on purpose but why and who posted it?
#29- I know, I had all these questions too. There are so many mysteries to this book. It definitely keeps you interested.
#30- I know I wonder how Harriet is going to fit into the picture. I am sure we will see her again.
Response to Laura, Post #44.#26 - Really!
#27 - LMBO! That's okay! I thought I was losing it - or your version was different, for whatever reason.
#28 - I loved your question & that it was a different POV than mine, Laura! LOL! True, things were different back then.
#29 - Tons of questions!
#30 - Eep! Uh, oh.
Lisa Kay’s Questions for Chapters 7 - 12 14. Did you find it interesting that Nell and Cassandra get along so well, when Nell couldn’t connect with her daughter? Do some people just not get along due to chemistry? Or maybe it wass due to Nell’s maturing?
I think that some people are just too different (or too much the same) to get along. Nell and her daughter were just too different, they could not understand each other....
15. If you’ve read the synopsis, you know that Cassandra tries to solve the mystery of Nell. What then brought Nell to England? Any predictions as to why she had a house there? Was it bought or inherited? Was she planning on moving there? If so, why didn’t she stay?
I think that Nell went to find her parents. Maybe the house was theirs? I vote for inheritance. I did not think about her moving there, but now when you say it, it has sense...
16. What does Cassandra mean when she thinks about Ben remembering “the way she used to be”? And her inability/unwillingness to “recover her old self”? What gives? Is she really thin now, or more melancholy now that Nell is gone, or what?
I don't know. Probably some past tragic love. Ben either left her or died and that changed Cassandra...
17. Can you understand Nell’s sense of “foreignness” after learning she wasn’t Hugh & Lil’s natural child? How about her legacy of abandonment that she feels she inherited from her own mother? Or is this more evidence of her being a bit melodrama? Is she just a “passionate” person?
I think that it is a bit melodramatic. I would understand why my parents waited to tell me I am adopted until I was more mature. It dos not change the love they had for me. I still think she overacted (especially since she did not know about Hugh's burning of letter)...
18. Alright, let me see if I’ve got the facts right. It is Hugh’s death – in approximately 1975 – that causes Nell to rediscover/remember the suitcase, inducing her to hire a private investigator into the whereabouts of Eliza Makepeace, right? Because I was wondering why she hadn’t done so sooner, if she felt so much like a “shadow”. Comments.
How do you say? Mind meld! :D I was thinking exactly the same thing. Why did she wait so much?
Or maybe she did not wait but did not have enough clues for any deep research...
19. I must say, I was shocked again about Hugh’s decision about Henry Mansell’s letter, were you? Paints him with a little darker brush, IMHO. Comments.
Yes. I was very dissapointed. I was on Nell parents side until then. Supporting them because they kept her, I thought that if anyone ever looked for her they would do the honorable thing.
But they just ignored the letter. It is cruel. Maybe the child was stolen it does not have to mean that the parents are bad if the child is missing...
20. Hmmm…Nathaniel Walker is artistic and Cassandra is artistic. Think there is a connection?
Yes I think they are related. Maybe he is her father even?
21. You probably don’t know this, but I have a ‘thing’ about amnesia plotlines. I’m a nurse, so I know amnesia is almost non-existent. Still, I love them, especially when there are multiple contributing factors. Are you buying this one? If so, why?
I am not buying it. I think that little girl was scared and abandoned and threatened to keep quiet before that. I think she convinced herself to not remember anything. Probably was less painful.
22. What is the significance of Cassandra’s dream, that if she only walked “in the right direction” she’d find that someone for whom she’d been looking? Why is it Cassandra’s dream and not Nell’s? Why does it change?
The dream was confusing to me, I could not guess the meaning. Ask me later again. :D
23. What did you think of “The Crone’s Eyes”? How about the ending? Old fairy tales have a little bit of “gruesomeness” to them. Did its ending work for you?
The fairy tale reminded me of Grimm's original stories. They are all similarly gruesome and dark. The ending was weird, especially the part with eyes that kept watching them. Brrrr... Creepy. :)
24. Just curious. Which book covers do you like the best?
The last row, second cover on first glance.
On longer/deeper inspection when I think about what happens in book also, maybe second cover in second row is better...
@Dragana#14- Interesting. Its hard for me to believe that differences in personality would make a mother feel so distant from a person that has come from her womb. I just feel like there has to be other factors.
#19-It sounds like we are all in agreement. Its disheartening to think that even though he loved her, Hugh was basically a child snatcher.
#23-It kind of reminds me of the new TV series Grimm. Very dark and just all around creepy, but I liked it. :)
@Laura#14 - Maybe. I don't know. I don't have any children yet, so I am not fit to be a judge on motherly feelings. :)
#23 - I watched the 'Grimm' series too and I loved it. Much better than the 'Once upon a time' which is also fairy-tale related. The only big flaw in Grimm series is that they ended season in the very big cliffhanger. :(
25. So it sounds like Eliza is Nell's Aunt. Where you surprised by this? What do you think of her childhood? Do you think that it had a large influence on her fairy tales?I was a bit surprised. I thought Eliza would end up as Nell's true mother or something but I have not given up on that possibility yet. Eliza's childhood feels sad. I not much of a fan of stories in which little children are made to suffer. Her stories pretty much refers to much of her real life situation, her fascination with the princess who didn't know she was a princess. Her mother even cautioned her that fairy tales are stories that finish too soon.
26. The story of Sammy was so sad. I felt terrible for Eliza. What did you think of the creepy game they were playing? Did you think it was odd for her to play a game like that in the first place? Do you think she went a little mad?
I also felt sad when I read about Sammy's demise and his eventual burial knowing the love the siblings shared. It is understandable if she goes a little mad after all she thought of Sammy as her responsibility. The game they were playing seems to be apt to the storyline. Eliza was always cautioned by her mother to stay alert of a bad man who might be out to get them. So it is only natural that her childish imagination gave the face of the ripper to this mysterious person who frightened her mom. May be she was trying to outrun that person or understand how that person thinks by playing this game.
27. What do you think of Ruby and the exhibit? Do you think that Ruby will remember something more about Clara? What do you think the role of Clara is? It seems odd that she had these unfinished drawings. Did anyone else think that she was the daughter of Eliza Makepeace?
It is kind of convenient actually. You have Cassandra looking for more information about Nathaniel Walker and Ruby happens to run in to a women who has the never before see drawings of Nathaniel. Now you have the one woman who might have something on Nathaniel and she happens to be Ruby's friend who happens to be Cassandra's friend. Cassandra is having more luck than Nell I guess. I think Clara is going to be revisited very soon and the suitcase of her mother's might contain some answers. I didn't think she is Eliza's daughter though but now that you have mentioned it, seems possible.
28. Were you surprised that Nell is actually Ivory, the daughter of Rose and Nathaniel Walker? I was more surprised by the fact that people thought Ivory died, I mean, they couldn't have had a body. Thoughts?
No, I was thinking along that line from the first time I heard about Nathaniel and his illustrations. But the think about Ivory dying of Scarlet fever caught me off guard. It seems someone went to a lot of trouble to hide the fact that Ivory was still alive.
29. Why do you think Eliza sent Ivory away? Do you think she was doing it to protect her or do you think she had ill intent? Was it Ivory's grandparents that sent the note to Australia looking for Ivory? How did they know to look for her? I have so many questions....
Me too. This book is getting more confusing with each chapter. I think there is more to the story of Eliza and Nell's parents. So the by the time Nell was shipped of to Australia both her parents were dead but the curious fact is Nell never seem to recall this. She thinks about her parents as though they were alive at the time she boarded the ship which doesn't make any sense. Also Eliza went missing from 1913 onwards roughly around the same time after which no one knows what happened to her except for a story that was published years later. Even though I don't have enough facts to substantiate the same I think Eliza was trying to protect Nell. It is just a feeling.
30. Why do you think Nell didn't tell anyone about her lineage? Do you think she kept it secret because she didn't think anyone would believe her or did she have another reason?
I think she kept it a secret because to tell this one would also mean she would have to confess about her parentage too, which we know she didn't do till her death. Moreover I don't think she knows the whole story, it is up to Cassandra to find out the rest
Nothing but Reading Challenges
Books mentioned in this topic
The Forgotten Garden (other topics)Bitterblue (other topics)
Breaking Dawn (other topics)
This topic is open for discussion of The Forgotten Garden by Kate Morton.
~ Expect Spoilers!! ~
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Synopsis:
A foundling, an old book of dark fairy tales, a secret garden, an aristocratic family, a love denied, and a mystery. The Forgotten Garden is a captivating, atmospheric and compulsively readable story of the past, secrets, family and memory from the international best-selling author Kate Morton.
Cassandra is lost, alone and grieving. Her much loved grandmother, Nell, has just died and Cassandra, her life already shaken by a tragic accident ten years ago, feels like she has lost everything dear to her. But an unexpected and mysterious bequest from Nell turns Cassandra's life upside down and ends up challenging everything she thought she knew about herself and her family.
Inheriting a book of dark and intriguing fairytales written by Eliza Makepeace - the Victorian authoress who disappeared mysteriously in the early twentieth century - Cassandra takes her courage in both hands to follow in the footsteps of Nell on a quest to find out the truth about their history, their family and their past; little knowing that in the process, she will also discover a new life for herself.
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CHAPTER BREAKDOWN - 649 page book! 10% a day is approximately 65 pages a day. Participants
Parvathy
Dragana
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Laura
Lisa Kay