A Game of Thrones (A Song of Ice and Fire, #1) A Game of Thrones question


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Did anyone else not realise Renly and Loras were Gay until the TV show??
Ami B Ami (last edited Jul 03, 2012 01:50PM ) Jul 03, 2012 09:38AM
seriously, am i being really stupid? i swear their not gay in the books, im only part way through the second book and only in secondary school so no need to be condecending



I think Martin did well with the subtlety in the books. The TV show just about broke the fourth wall and had them look out at the viewer yelling "I'M GAY!" while simultaneously beating us over the head with a giant inflatable rainbow.


i was told the author himself said that it was in there and HBO didn't make that up, they just made it more obvious....i didn't catch that bit either though.


I thought it was obvious....the Rainbow Guard helped :) I thought it was a mini love story. Loras was beside himself with grief. I figured it out right away. Although I was shocked at how they made up scenes and threw it in your face on the show. I shouldn't of been shocked but I was :)

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Kelly I may be slow, but I always thought the Rainbow Guard was in direct contrast to the pure white of the Kingsguard. Not related to anything LGBT or what ...more
Oct 25, 2014 04:52AM

It's much more subtle in the books, though I think it's still meant to be inferred. Obviously for HBO they gotta sex it up a little though :)


Renly and Loras being together is not blatantly stated at any point in the books, but there are a few hints. The jibes by Stannis about Margaeray , Cersei's strangeness re. Loras in A Feast for Crows , Maester Cressen's description of Renly as a child, Loras being upset about being asked how his sister was coping, the boys private ""praying"" sessions, plus Baelish: "" and when will you be having YOUR friend??"" Taken together, they make it fairly easy to spot, but these are scattered sparingly through several books, and both are fairly minor characters (I'm not sure if they even have a scene together) and when you're not looking for it, its very simple to miss. I realized about Renly in the start of Storm, but Sansa's fangirling over Loras really threw me off. One kinda gets the feeling that the TV series only expanded on it to have a homosexual scene, (a load of shows do this; most soaps have two or three gay characters, which is great and everything, but it comes across as if they're only in the script for the sale of it, and that their sexuality ends up defining their entire character.) The GoT TV series doesn't leave much to the imagination, but they carry it off with more authenticity than most nowadays. The only thing I'd say would be that there was more than enough sex in A. the books without putting in even more. My own opinion at least.
PS thanks for reading this far, you rock!!


Josh (last edited Aug 27, 2012 07:33AM ) Aug 27, 2012 07:31AM   1 vote
martin has made it plain that the characters were meant to be gay, but yes, it's much more subtle than in the tv show and even some of the other gay characters in the series. in my opinion this is most likely because we never see either character from their POV. in contrast you do see jon connington's POV in the 5th book and it's a bit more obvious that he is gay, because you get his exact thoughts and feelings instead of second-hand gossip and whisperings.

i also believe that though "knight of the flowers" and "the rainbow guard" may illicit a repsonse from us in the twentieth century, the intent of that imagery is not to blatantly focus on their sexuality. remember that the faith of the seven traditionally used a rainbow as its colors, likely to suggest unification of all people and all family banners. you can see many descriptions in the books where they make a note of that, specifically when addressing the faith militant and the seven pointed star they wear. it was also common for wealthy people, in the books and in reality, to dress lavishly with all sorts of ornament and extravagant detail. the reach being both strongly of the faith and very wealthy being the ones who backed renly, it makes sense contextually to show this decadence in the way he conducted his court. the knight of flowers was simply an allusion to the fact that he was a tyrell—again wealthy, ergo flashy—and his family sigil is a flower.


It was never said explicitly in the books but they definitely were together. Its easy to miss it though because I know people who've read the books and not picked up on it at all. But when you read about Renly and Loras' private 'praying' sessions and Stannis' jibes at Renly's marriage to a woman in the second book it all becomes a bit obvious.


Johnathan (last edited Jul 03, 2012 09:47AM ) Jul 03, 2012 09:46AM   0 votes
Ami wrote: "seriously, am i being really stupid? i swear their not gay in the books"

It never said they were in the books, but it hinted at it several times.


I duno....rainbows and flowers....seemed like a pretty stong hint about homosexuality....


I myself thought it was pretty obvious. But I can also say that I wouldn't have seen it in secondary school.

I'm as stunned by folks NOT seeing it as some folks are of it being on the show. But then I guess some folks are just not attuned to those things.

Like I said, I wouldn't necessarily caught on in secondary school.


It was definitely more subtle in the book.


It was always implied in Martin's writing, he didn't feel the need to state it plainly. Renly's Rainbow guard and never consummating his marriage with Margarey being two of the biggest clues.


Ser Lyn is gay too.


"And tell me lord Renly, when will you be having YOUR friend?" A strong hint given by Litterfinger at the tournament arranged for naming Ned as the new hand. This is when I first got it in while reading book 1 and its also included in the show.


The Rainbow guard and Knight of Flowers I thought was a suggestion..... I feel at some point Stannis....or Cersei....or someone high born basically called Renly out saying Margaery having a child was very unlikely....And not cus she was infertile.


It was so subtle in the books....but i saw the ep where Loras and Renly are "down and out" before i read it, so yes - it´s in the books, but some very mild references to odd things: the Rainbow Guard, the praying sessions( come on: i have heard calling it a lot of names, but not praying!).

The Tv show was kind of "in your face" - really distastefull! There could have been other ways of showing it....but it would not bring a lot of ratings.


I didn't realize it either. I don't really care about either of them so I never thought they were gay. Renly married a girl (even when she remained a virgin until Renly died), it never crossed my mind that he was gay.


Most of the stronger hints were in the 3rd and 4th books, though. It was still pretty subtle through book 2.


Well, it took me awhile to realize Renly and Loras were together. But by Feast of Crows, I was certainly starting to believe they had been a couple. The TV show just sealed it.


To me it was quite obvious.

U_25x33
S I re-read the books and I still couldn't seen any signs that they were lovers. Funny that the show hasn't explored Dany's occasional bisexuality.
Oct 18, 2014 04:22PM

I saw the signs in the 1st book and was pleasantly surprised to see that it had been "expanded" in the mini-series :)


Ami wrote: "seriously, am i being really stupid? i swear their not gay in the books, im only part way through the second book and only in secondary school so no need to be condecending"
I was surprised to see the that they were gay. I totally missed that and I asked a couple of other people who also read the books, and they also said that they had missed that. I thought the hints were pretty subtle...maybe I wasn't looking for it.


actually in A storm of crows when Jaime arrives at kingslanding with Brienne Loras threatens her but then Jaime says: "Now sheathe your bloody sword, or I'll take it from you and shove it up some place even Renly never found


All I know is in the books, Knight of the flowers was so distraught when Renly died. Even way more distraught than the wife herself.


there are subtle references for Renly and Loras.The only obvious one is the boy who was a whore.


Ami wrote: "seriously, am i being really stupid? i swear their not gay in the books, im only part way through the second book and only in secondary school so no need to be condecending"

I didn't really realize it until later on in the books, a friend actually pointed it out to me our I would have missed it. He doesn't throw it in your face in the books, however I do like how they did it in the show.


http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/mlarchiv...
Looking back I can see it, but I never would've come to that on my own.


Just keep reading. It's pretty obvious in the next books.


S Aug 21, 2013 01:17PM   0 votes
It's kind of weird, then, that the actor cast as Renly isn't as young or handsome as Martin describes him as being.


there's a reason why Maergery was supposedly still a virgin even after she married Renly ...


Just because you didn't see they gay, doesn't mean it isn't there, people.


I've never realized or noticed any of this and I'm almost done Storm.


I've read the first 2 books and I certainly didn't pick up on it - though now I think about it I can see that there were hints about Renly. I guess it will become a lot more obvious in the next book, judging from the comments here!


Having seen the show first, and being more than half way through "Clash", I guess I assumed having seen the show. But I don't think it was made obviuos so far.


Really? I honestly didn't see it in the books. What did I miss?


I agree. I thought the books were pretty clear they were together.


I had NO idea!!!! It was really, really subtle because I can't even remember any thing ever being said. The relationship between the families makes a little more sense now!


Yeah, there were enough innuendos in the book that I caught on. The show just removed all subtlety.


In the first book there were none that I saw. In the second just a few that I didn't catch on to until watching the show. Now the third book! Yeah, they all but shout in from the rafters in that one.


the only hints in the book, I guess, must be their love of flowers and rainbow cloaks - it never crossed my mind though that they were gay, well maybe for a second but that is such a stereotype and even Theon Greyjoy likes to dress up and make himself look good


The key point is in the beginning of the second book when old maester Cressen from Dragonstone recollects the three Baratheon brothers: Robert, Stannis and Renly in their youth. Renly is described as always liking to dress up in colorful clothes and play pretend, sing and be loud. It was at that point I realised he was gay.

Another "gay" moment is also to be found in the second book,when Renly and Stannis have a parley on the eve of their confrontation and Stannis implies something about Renley's inclination towards bedding men rather than women.


I must admit I never thought of it while reading the first book - but then again, there is no scene in that book featuring both Renly and Loras (they're both quite minor characters in that, especially Loras). The shaving scene was invented for the TV show, and that makes it obvious that they are in a relationship.


I'm not getting it. Where should I look in Game of Thrones to read this bit?


I can't remember if it was obvious before, but I'm in Feast for Crows now, and Ceresi does mention that Loras' sister may share her brother's tendencies because she is always surrounded by young female "friends". It is definitely intended that Loras was gay. Also, earlier Loras was very upset when asked how his sister was holding up with Renly's death (or something to that effect), the apparent reason being that Loras was the one who was really bereft of the man he loved.


I didn't see it in the first book, but I found it more apparent in later books.


fr me the rainbow stuff from renly´s part was a deal breaker to my doubts.
i knew it then


You're not stupid at all. It wasn't obvious in the books. We are only given subtle hints. I, for one, did not think being the knight of flowers implied that Loras was gay. Afterall, the rose is his family symbol. The first hint I caught in the book was when Renly was more interested in talking to Loras at the feast than he was with his wife. But some straight men are like that with their friends. So we weren't being stupid, just not jumping to conclusions.


I never realised it when reading the book, odd, i should have picked it up since i am gay.... Seems like my gaydar did not work this time


Ami wrote: "seriously, am i being really stupid? i swear their not gay in the books, im only part way through the second book and only in secondary school so no need to be condecending"
I didn't get it either. To me, Renly was just nice, but looking back, Stannis did infer something along those lines when they last met.


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