Writers Worth discussion
Anthology II
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Anthology 2: Space Travel and Colonization?
Sounds like a great idea!! The Venus transit was awesome...we went out to a soccer field with 20 people and 8 scopes. Happy I got to see it!Maybe this project can be next on the list after G5N? Just thinking in terms of finishing one before the next begins.
This is a cool idea. I probably won't be able to write for it as I have a book deadline approaching, but I could beta read and/or help edit. ^^
Courtney wrote: "Sounds like a great idea!! The Venus transit was awesome...we went out to a soccer field with 20 people and 8 scopes. Happy I got to see it!Maybe this project can be next on the list after G5N? J..."
Well that's what we were thinking. We've got most people here busy with Worlds Undone and there's still lots of people being recruited, but we can iron things out in the meantime since there are parameters.
So, here are the basic guidelines Khaalidah and I were discussing. For starters, we were thinking that a consistent storyline, where authors do stories and contribute them as part of an ongoing storyline would be good. It would fall into three parts:1. Leaving Earth - addressing the push-pull factors that would lead to colonization and families leaving. These could be things like environmental stress, overpopulation, war. It could start with a lottery system just to colonize new worlds, but open up and get more desperate as time goes on.
2. Colonization - the first waves of colonists have landed and are reaching out further. Mars, Ganymede, Europa, Oberon, Titan, etc, then the nearest stars. Terraforming, new worlds, conflicts, and maybe even extra-terrestrial species come up here.
3. Switchover - the colonies have grown and matured, new waves of people are coming in. Conflicts between old and new generations begin, as do conflicts between the colonies and Earth. Independence, the desire to become more than receptacles for people and sources of resources, etc. And if aliens are involved, the ongoing struggle between "us and them".
That's what I got so far. Of course, things like whether or not we want aliens, what form they will take, and other details will need to be worked out. Ideas are welcome!
I'm a bit iffy on the idea of having aliens. I sort of feel like they shouldn't be there at all. But that's just me and I'm okay with having them if done correctly. Aliens sort of adds a dimension that could crumble the cohesion of the stories. I think, and I may be wrong, that it is necessary, if we intend to make these stories cohesive and part of a larger whole, there needs to be a solid back story.
Khaalidah wrote: "I'm a bit iffy on the idea of having aliens. I sort of feel like they shouldn't be there at all. But that's just me and I'm okay with having them if done correctly. Aliens sort of adds a dimensi..."Good, because I would be inclined to agree. I like the idea of aliens as a varied concept, not as humanoid beings, but as more complicated organisms. Things like plants and microbes and animals that share a common consciousness, or just hostile and/or invasive organisms.
I would love to write a story for this anthology! I write mostly sci-fi/fantasy, anyway. I agree with Matthew about the aliens. Plants which talk to each other (maybe through a network? Is that too much like Avatar?) are very cool XD I really hope this works out!
Doremy, I think that's an awesome idea. I could go for that sort of alien type entity as opposed to the humanoid type. Either way we need to establish some parameters. ie. are they good or bad? reproduction? do they communicate with people? are they just there or are they in some way central to the story?
Khaalidah wrote: "Doremy, I think that's an awesome idea. I could go for that sort of alien type entity as opposed to the humanoid type. Either way we need to establish some parameters. ie. are they good or bad? ..."I prefer aliens that are morally ambiguous, and as alien as possible! By that, I mean there can be cross-species communication, but its hard. That'd be where adaptation comes in. People would need to be in the same environment as the alien organism for generations before they developed the sensitivity to "hear" them.
Matthew wrote: "Khaalidah wrote: "Doremy, I think that's an awesome idea. I could go for that sort of alien type entity as opposed to the humanoid type. Either way we need to establish some parameters. ie. are ..."Genius. I love it. Do we need to develop them? What do they look like and so on, or leave that to the individual writer?
That depends. Do you want the stories to be based in the same world? if so, you'll have to develop them a little bit so the authors don't create wildly different worlds. unless that's what you want. *shrugs*
Sooo...should they glow? :) should they look like the plants on Earth? Should they be totally different?
Doremy wrote: "Sooo...should they glow? :) should they look like the plants on Earth? Should they be totally different?"Oi, I can see people are running with this. Okay, how about totally different? We're talking bright phosphorescent patches, spores that look like incendiary dust, tall stocks of glowing flowers, and deep indigo mosses that spread to encompass all non-assimilated organisms.
Okay, that's just one concept, and it's largely taken from a book I did. But that in turn was borrowed from other sources too. Still, if we are willing to go along those lines, get more detailed, I say we set this another star system, like A/B Centauri, Sirius, or some other nearby system.
I like your idea Matt. Totally. Let's get a bit more specific. Is it sentient? When it spreads, does it do harm? Convert? Genetically alter? Can/does it affect other life forms or does it only spread to nonliving things? It is a problem or just a curiosity? Is there a way to communicate with it? What does it feed on? Are we inadvertently harming it in the process of colonization? If so, does it/nature kick into over drive? Can we eat it? Can it eat us? Can it be used in medicine or clothing or decoration?So many questions to answer Matt.
To answers your question... um, yes! Well, that's true for most of your queries.The lifeform is sentient, in the sense that no particular organism that is a part of it thinks on its own, but there is a mind behind it all. It can do harm, but that depends on your point of view. I think the best idea would be the colonists eventually embrace the change and realize its not so harmful after all.
Or, better yet, that they come to some kind of agreement where they can mediate the effects so they remain independent but also genetically merged with the sentience. This of course would take generations, and it required that they find a way to communicate first.
Feed on? Hmmmm, I'd say every organism that is part of it contributes food. The mosses and plants convert water, soil nutrients and the sun's energy into food, just like plants and lichens do here on Earth. Here, the whole "chain" and interdependency is just that much more important since all organisms are connected.
And yes, totally! The colonists are harming it through colonization, which makes it hostile at first. But that changes in time as we grow to understand each other. It doesn't "eat" us per se, but it can kill us and convert us. Can we eat it... I'd say no. It's chemical properties make it poisonous to those not adapted yet.
As for medicine and the like, I'd say sure. One of the ways we harm it is that we've found ways to use it for many things, including art and decoration and fibers, maybe even medicinal properties. And that could be an angle for later, like how its medicinal use is already leading to a sort of adaptation to it. But mainly, the colonists simply want to get it out of the way since they want to terraform.
Whoa. Anybody got anything to add? Also, I did some research last night, but I think I'll start a new post for that. This one's gone long!
So, last night I did a little astronomical research. I think I found a setting for our story...61 Cygnus, k-class star system that sits 11.41 light years away. According to ongoing research, it's believed that it has a system of planets. Specifically, two massive gas giants, three smaller planets, and one massive planet.
I'd say colonists would want to colonize one of three smaller ones since they would be closest in size and gravity to Earth. They also need names!
Gas giants - something big and possibly mythological. Jove? Kronos? Freyya? Thor? Shiva? Brahma?
Giant planet - Titan?
Three habitable ones - I was thinking names that reflected the people who researched them: Peter van de Kamp, a man who's dedicated his life to finding other planets and his students, Kaj Strand and Wulff Dieter Heintz.
But of course, names don't need to be in English. They can reflect the colonists themselves, who could be of multiple nationalities. That gives the story some added background and depth too, how the multicultural aspect of the colonists is one of the first challenges the colonists have to deal with.
This would also further show their individual nature to the planet-wide organism which has never had to deal with this sort of thing before. In addition to individual minds, the people have respective groups, and the trade-off between the two is what drives our social dynamic.
Huh? What do you think?
I had some more ideas on setting (surprise surprise!), I did a 2D map of the star system and added some potential names. I was thinking naming the planets after the astronomers and the giants out of either Hindu or Norse mythology. I can't post it here, but follow the link:http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/1/f/1...
Matthew wrote: "I had some more ideas on setting (surprise surprise!), I did a 2D map of the star system and added some potential names. I was thinking naming the planets after the astronomers and the giants out o..."You are a beast!!!! Awesome. Don't drink too much awesome sauce, you'll turn to gold. hehehehehe.
So are we going to inhabit Kamp?
Let's name our organism.... How about "kararsız". It means "vague" in Turkish.
Khaalidah wrote: "Matthew wrote: "I had some more ideas on setting (surprise surprise!), I did a 2D map of the star system and added some potential names. I was thinking naming the planets after the astronomers and ..."Nice! And yes, Kamp was the one I was thinking of. How about the colonists give that a new name too? You got any more cool names in other languages? How about the rest of you, now's the time to get your suggestions in! ;)
I'm limited in that I speak only two languages and know nothing of the ones I want to include most (i.e. Hindi, Arabic, Chinese), the real growth cultures that are likely to be a big part of any colonization effort, you know?
Well. We could rename Kemp, Yuva. Yuva means home in Turkish. I'll find out about the arabic but I personally like Yuva. It's simple and elegant sounding.
We need to keep in mind that the timeframes being discussed are huge. The technology needed for terraforming is almost beyond our imagining - not to mention the issue with FTL travel. So if we are talking about terraforming and colonising planets then we are probably looking at aroun 300-400 years from now at the absolute earliest assuming tech advances continue at the current pace. Unless we make first contact and we get the technology from aliens without inventing it ourselves.
Goran wrote: "We need to keep in mind that the timeframes being discussed are huge. The technology needed for terraforming is almost beyond our imagining - not to mention the issue with FTL travel. So if we are ..."Great points.
So this got me thinking and perhaps...Perhaps this will give us the why of colonization outside of our solar system.
Right now, we all know that some of Earth's resources are at risk if we don't learn to conserve, as well as the continued endangerment to the environment and atmosphere.
We can set this series of events a couple of hundred years into the future. Our scientists have foreseen the detrimental effects our current course will have and have calculated how much time we will have if we don't do something. The solution was to find and terraform and eventually colonize another planet. The terraforming began long before we sent anyone out to colonize.
Would that work for our reason why?
Goran wrote: "We need to keep in mind that the timeframes being discussed are huge. The technology needed for terraforming is almost beyond our imagining - not to mention the issue with FTL travel. So if we are ..."I am assuming your on board then? One thing though, FTL would not have been invented in this story. Space travel is slow, and involves cryogenic suspension. Luckily, that makes a couple centuries for terraforming and settlement a doable affair.
Also, I can't imagine terraforming would take much long than a century or two, but then again it doesn't matter too much since the story would involve coming to terms with the environment instead of just changing it.
I wrote up an outline for ideas and basically had thought a mid 21st to early 24th century story would work. Beginning with colonization of the world and ending with new waves coming and threatening the old colonists. Perhaps I should share that...
Khaalidah wrote: "Goran wrote: "We need to keep in mind that the timeframes being discussed are huge. The technology needed for terraforming is almost beyond our imagining - not to mention the issue with FTL travel...."Yes indeed it would. I theorized that if we do a typical three part book, that one of the stories in part I would involve scientists who went ahead to survey and begin the terraforming in advance of the colonists.
when the people arrive, do they know that the plants are sentient? Or do unexplainable things just start happening...? (the plants are sentient, right?)
I'd love to be part of it. So yes, please count me in :-) If we are talking about sub-light travel then yes it will take centuries to reach some distant potentially habitable planets. In fact by the time the colonists arrive Earth itself could be dead and gone. Naturally communications back "home" would also be slow unless we decide that quantum entaglement can solve that problem. So if there is terraforming required (even a small amount to maybe change the atmospheric pressure or slightly raise or lower the temperature of the world) and we still have sub-light travel then how did the equipment to do that work get there before the colonists arrive?Perhaps they reach their destination. Live in orbital colonies for a couple of decades while the planet below them is made ready. And the people tasked with doing the terraforming work are the ones to encounter the sentient plants.
William wrote: "Do the stories need to like actual chapters in a book, strongly linked, or can they be like ornaments hung on a christmas tree? That is, taking place in the same universe, creating a story via symb..."Matt can clarify, but the idea thus far as we've discussed is that there is NOT any definite sequencing other than the fact that the three parts of the book would represent before, during, and after successful colonization of the planet. Other than that there is no sequencing. These stories would take place on the same colonized planet but can be told (and should be told) from a myriad of perspectives.
Goran wrote: "I'd love to be part of it. So yes, please count me in :-) If we are talking about sub-light travel then yes it will take centuries to reach some distant potentially habitable planets. In fact by th..."I like your idea of having suborbital colonies. That's just ingenious.
Doremy wrote: "when the people arrive, do they know that the plants are sentient? Or do unexplainable things just start happening...? (the plants are sentient, right?)"The plants are part of a planet-wide sentience. And no, no one really figures that out after things start happening, and of course denial plays a big part at first.
William wrote: "Do the stories need to like actual chapters in a book, strongly linked, or can they be like ornaments hung on a christmas tree? That is, taking place in the same universe, creating a story via symb..."I was thinking chapters in a book, specifically four to a part, 12 in total. But of course, the focus of each one should be different and the tones should differ. So... kind of both really. But Khaalidah is right, no sequencing. We're an anthology so we want to be diverse and as multifaceted as possible.
Goran wrote: "I'd love to be part of it. So yes, please count me in :-) If we are talking about sub-light travel then yes it will take centuries to reach some distant potentially habitable planets. In fact by th..."Hmmm, kind of torn. On the one hand, the system is question is 61 Cygni, roughly 11 lights years away. I was thinking that the mission goes out by 2050, using ships that can acheive 1/7th the speed of light. If a scientific expedition was sent a few years ahead in a liner that was lighter and faster, they would have a few years jump on the colonists.
At the same time, I like the idea of suborbital colonies. That could add more dimension to the story. It's like, 20 years to Planetfall! And then the day comes and they arrive. Of course, it would preliminary, like you said, just to get the atmosphere more suitable for pressure domes.
The reason I would avoid having two missions. One to get the colonists there and one prior to that to get the environment ready is that its just too risky.Given everything that could potentially go wrong on something like this having a second mission entirely dependant upon the success of the first would be taking too much of a chance. By having just one mission increases the odds of success greatly. The only way you could get away with two is if the second launched only after it was 100% clear that the first one was a success.
Hence the orbital colony concept addresses the risk issue, gives you a platform for new stories politics, intrigues, dangers all in a completely new system away from earth. The need for cryo-stasis during the main trip makes it pretty uneventful - unless there is a skeleton crew who effectively live their entire lives enroute to ensure that the colonists get there. 11 LY at 1/7th is 77 years travel.
The crew would be sacrificing their life for the colonists who would be entirely at the mercy of the crew - that could lead to some interesting dynamics while travelling.
Goran wrote: "The reason I would avoid having two missions. One to get the colonists there and one prior to that to get the environment ready is that its just too risky.Given everything that could potentially ..."
Now I see a new angle. The terraformers arrive and establish the orbital colonies, work for years to prepare things. Then come the settlers, and the transition from one to the other could be a driving force for Part I. At least it could be one focal point...
Hello! I nominate you to tackle this story Mr. Zidar! How does it sound? You wanna tackle the terraformers?
Happy to give that a go... what are the parameters. Word count, and any key points you need me to hit so that it fits with the wider story?
I kinda see it like the old west in the americas. The frontiersmen and women took huge risks to settle the land and then the second wave of people come and try and take over. I can almost see a conflict brewing that could escalate to...
Goran wrote: "Happy to give that a go... what are the parameters. Word count, and any key points you need me to hit so that it fits with the wider story?"I was thinking 5000 words as a suggested target. As for key points, there are those I posted in the map. Those would be the planet names. In terms of the rest, like conditions back home, that will need to be taken on by someone else. We want to address the push-pull factors that led to the colonization effort, what its called etc. I might just write that up myself as some basic bullet points just so we have something to work with.
As for the rest, you'd be free to invent!
cool.. when you're ready and have everything summarised shoot it through. In the meantime I'll start noodling. I am going to assume that the terraformers have been in place for a while :-)
Goran wrote: "cool.. when you're ready and have everything summarised shoot it through. In the meantime I'll start noodling. I am going to assume that the terraformers have been in place for a while :-)"Oh yes! As they cannot possibly be expected to bring those suborbitals with them... right? Just how advanced are these things? ;)
Oh yeah, and the addition of this terraformers going on ahead thread will expand the storyline further and should make the timelines work.
I'm not sure I know how it's hostile. does it trap and eat the people like a Venus flytrap? or something else?
Doremy wrote: "I'm not sure I know how it's hostile. does it trap and eat the people like a Venus flytrap? or something else?"I was thinking it uses its spores (pollen like dust that looks like sparks and embers when released) to infiltrate non-native life forms. The problem is, with humans, this causes psychosis and death, at least at first. Being non-native, our nervous systems couldn't adapt and began going haywire before our brainstems just shut down.
Of course, I foresee that at a certain point, someone manages to survive the process and finds themselves neurologically linked to the planet-mind. Either the local life finally found a way to communicate with us, or we found a way to keep a patient alive long enough for their bodies to incorporate the spores, etc.
Doremy wrote: "So they'd have to wear masks to survive in the environment?"Oh yes, as Mr. Zidar and I were talking about, the planet was terraformed beforehand, but only so far. By the time the colonists arrive, the atmosphere is still relatively unbreathable and the climate still harsh. And its the slow change which is making the planetary organism hostile to the human presence since it sees this as an invasion.
I also had another idea for a story. I was thinking Mr. Zidar should go second with a story about the Terraformers, and someone should do a story entitled "The Lottery" or something similar which covers life on Earth in the mid to late 21st century where colonists are being selected to go. Details like how the governments of the world and the UN are opting for colonization because of overpopulation, climate change, pollution, hunger, draught, etc. And of course, the focus could be on a single family which has been selected to go. Or perhaps, not all of them were selected...
Any takers on slot one?
Matthew wrote: "I also had another idea for a story. I was thinking Mr. Zidar should go second with a story about the Terraformers, and someone should do a story entitled "The Lottery" or something similar which c..."I'd like a go at that one. I've got an idea for this story.
Khaalidah wrote: "Matthew wrote: "I also had another idea for a story. I was thinking Mr. Zidar should go second with a story about the Terraformers, and someone should do a story entitled "The Lottery" or something..."Good job, I thought you might. In fact I was kind of hoping it was implied, like "I'm looking in your direction as I describe this story".
So that fills slots one and two. I had an idea for three and four, tentative at best though. Number three I was thinking would be about the ship in transit, people waking from cryosleep and going through preparations for planetfall. Naturally, they are commanded by a crew of astronauts, and the colonists are still under their authority until they land.
Story four could be about the transfer of power between the terraformers and the new colonial government. It would be here where we get into the dynamics of the people who were selected. Keep in mind that the largest groups will probably be Indian and Chinese due to these regions respective growth.
North America, South America, the EU, West Africa and the Arab community are likely to be smaller, tightly knit groups since they all find themselves in the minority. It would make for a cool story about social cliques and representatives groups trying to get along.
Any takers on either?
William wrote: "I'm thinking of a story taking place during transit, where an elderly woman plans to live long enough to make it to the new planet. She was a young crew member, when they launched, but is now over ..."Sure, but it doesn't quite fit with the cryogenic suspension we were talking about. Basically, the entire crew flies frozen to ensure that they don't age more than a few days even though many decades passes while they are in transit.
Unless... the ship's are generational, where the crew itself stays awake during voyage but the settlers are in cryostasis. Thoughts? Objections? Consensus?
William wrote: "Crews being generational sounds good. Consider, the planners decided not to trust everything to the ship's AI. Rather, the crew lives, procreates, dies, training their replacements. Or ...The cre..."
Yes, Earthers versus ship-born. We'd need a name for the ship, though there ought to be more than one. How about Flotillans, Transitions, Newborns? And whatever you need to do to make your idea works fine since it's early in the book. It's here where important details need to be established. Besides, I like the idea.
So that makes slots one through three covered. Now we just need a fourth installment dealing with Planetfall. I have a rough outline for Part II, and just a vague idea for III.
Hi there William.I have a suggestion for the name of the ship: Hijra, which means "flight from danger" in Arabic.
A couple of questions that I need answered before starting my story.
1. Can I change the name of the story if I need too?
2. How long should it be? (min/max)
3. What year are we talking about?
4. Have we settled on the name of our planet (Yuva (meaning "home" in Turkish, okay?) or do we have something else in mind?
5. Anything else I need to know?
6. Have we settled on cryo or generations or both?
7. Are you BETA-ing? Do I send it to you?
8. What timeline am I working with...ie. when do you need me to get this story to you? (I'll start working on it on Wednesday.
I know I have other questioons but I will pop them out as they come to me.
Well, it got me thinking that a collection of short stories about that very subject would make for a very cool anthology. So I would like to put the suggestion out there. I would also like to volunteer to be the editor since I love space opera and have some experience in writing it.
So... any takers, would anyone be interested, and what kind of timeline do we think would be necessary? I think a dozen or so people would be good, the stories could be related if we want, and a lower limit of about 5000 words so there's no big strictures. Sound good anyone?