Insurgent (Divergent, #2) Insurgent discussion


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What's up with "Edith Prior?"

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Tiffany When I finished Insurgent, the only thing running in my mind was cliffhanger!!!!! Then I thought about the so-called "Edith Prior." Does anyone have any speculations about her and who she really is? (Cliffie!!! -.-)


message 2: by Ivy (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ivy Yeah there isn't much info about Edith, even Tris doesn't seem sure of who she is. She's might be Tris's grandmother if not, older. Her mother's name was Natalie so it couldn't have been her. But I look forward to finding out!! :)


Jenny B I believe that Edith Prior is Tris' great or great-great grandmother. We have to remember that NO ONE except a few abnegation knows of the "secret". If she was only a grandmother, then the societies would only have been in existence for like 40 years, assuming Edith was at least 20 - 30 when the recording was created. People would have remembered something like a "beginning". And yes, I definitely believe that Edith Prior is related to Tris, otherwise there wouldn't have been so much emphasis on the name and also left as a cliffhanger. If there wasn't a connection between Tris & Edith, then why say Edith's full name at all! Can't wait for book 3... hoping it won't be another FULL YEAR OR TWO before it's done, but I have plenty of other reading to keep me busy...


jenna that "EDITH PRIOR" kills me to sleep. I was lying in my bed when I finished reading INSURGENT and I was like "EDITH PRIOR who???" I need the third book badly. I think she's Tris' great-grandmother or something. that's just what I can think bout. cause Roth finished it with that name. how am I supposed to sleep when Im thinking of all this??? how??


Tiffany Jenny wrote: "I believe that Edith Prior is Tris' great or great-great grandmother. We have to remember that NO ONE except a few abnegation knows of the "secret". If she was only a grandmother, then the societi..."

jenna wrote: "that "EDITH PRIOR" kills me to sleep. I was lying in my bed when I finished reading INSURGENT and I was like "EDITH PRIOR who???" I need the third book badly. I think she's Tris' great-grandmother ..."

Thatismahogany! wrote: "Yeah there isn't much info about Edith, even Tris doesn't seem sure of who she is. She's might be Tris's grandmother if not, older. Her mother's name was Natalie so it couldn't have been her. But I..."

I KNOW!!! :\ Jenny-Good theory! Veronica Roth barely gave any hints regarding Edith aside from the video so it's really hard to find out who she really is. Jenna-Same here, the cliffhanger kept me awake all night! I need the 3rd book now as well!! :D


message 6: by [deleted user] (new)

I think you guys are forgetting that tris changed her name went she switched factions. She is also labeled as second generation which meansher parents are first generation. Unless there's a zero generation, her parents would've been the ones to lose their memories and tht also means trips kinda doesn't have grandparents. I think tht Natalie changed her name when she switched to abnegation. I think she was Edith in dauntless and Natalie in abnegation.


message 7: by Vance (last edited Jun 04, 2012 11:54AM) (new)

Vance It can't be natalie, though. Remember that Tris' father was in Erudite then transferred over. Assuming that Natalie's maiden name wasn't Prior (which I'm sure it wasn't), Edith had to have been from Eradite (unless Tris' grandfather changed, but..).

I'm guessing that Edith is a grandmother or great-grandmother.

Also, there would be no memory of a beginning because they took on a new false set of memories. So, technically speaking, it could have started at anytime.


Tiffany I'm sort of confused...I guess Veronica Roth REALLY wrote it that way so that we'd all have to see in the next book. No spoilers, no hints whatsoever. Well hopefully someone cracks the code soon =))


message 9: by [deleted user] (new)

I swear to god I almost die! I can't believe Edith Prior and the message was so intense, I really think Veronica knows how to leave us wanting more!


message 10: by Dale (new) - rated it 5 stars

Dale Z Touche book, touche.


Tiffany Sophia wrote: "Touche book, touche." I wish I could like this comment, but I can't. =))


Jenny B Adele wrote: "I think you guys are forgetting that tris changed her name went she switched factions. She is also labeled as second generation which meansher parents are first generation. Unless there's a zero ge..."

She never changed her last name. Just her first.


Jenny B Vance wrote: "It can't be natalie, lol. Remember that Tris' father was in Erudite then transferred over. Assuming that Natalie's maiden name wasn't Prior (which I'm sure it wasn't), Edith had to have been from E..."

Definitely agree that Edith Prior was from Tris' Dad's side of the family and I like your theory, but I will disagree with the false memories thing. I know that they have the capabilities to create false memories now, but there's no way of knowing whether they could "take" on/create new false memories at the point in time when they were creating the factions. Maybe I'm overthinking this... Damn you Veronica Roth for writing such an addictive trilogy! I need book 3 now...


Jenny B Tiffany wrote: "Sophia wrote: "Touche book, touche." I wish I could like this comment, but I can't. =))"

I felt the same way about that comment... Perfect response.


Alexis Holy! What a cliffhanger! Veronica Roth really has got a lot of explaining to do in the third book. I mean, who is this mysterious Edith Prior? Is she Tris' grandmother? Her mother? Great grandmother? This is making me think too much. I'm so anxious for the third book!! What's going to happen? Aaaah!


message 16: by Jocylin (new)

Jocylin I really need to know who she is! Ugh!! I'm thinking like other people are that she is probably a great grandmother or something . I also think your right about the second generation first generation thing. Honestly this book was great - not as good as the hunger games but I feel roth did a fantastic job. The ending definetly left you wanting more but not in the sense that its not gonna be like torture waiting. Like mockingjay was if you know what I mean. But anyways can't wait to read the next one and figure out who this Edith prior is :)


message 17: by Faith (last edited Jun 04, 2012 07:27PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Faith (copperhairproduction) I think that she is a grandomother or somthing to Tris, although Roth left it really open to anyting related to her. Honestly, I think that Insurgent is written unlike any other dystopian I have ever read. To me, Insurgent is almost poetic. I adore Roth's style, and I am deeply craving more. Anyway, Edith...hmmm...again, hmmm...what a cliffhanger, Veronica Roth. I both hate AND worship you.


message 18: by Ashley (last edited Jun 04, 2012 08:08PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Ashley I think Edith Prior is Tris's grandmother. The last name screams family and Tris's thought that she looks vaguely familiar suggests a family resemblance. As to Tris being "second generation", if Edith is her grandmother then her parents would have been in the first generation born within the Faction system, and she is the second.

I also think that with Tris's comments about how close Jeanine's hair color and height were to her own, Jeanine might have been Tris's aunt. Her father was Erudite, so Jeanine could have been his sister and either changed her last name when she married or he changed his last name to match Tris's mother. They mention that either is the norm in their society.


Faith (copperhairproduction) Ashley wrote: "I think Edith Prior is Tris's grandmother. The last name screams family and Tris's thought that she looks vaguely familiar suggests a family resemblance. As to Tris being "second generation", if Ed..."

But do we know for sure Jeanine married? She didn't seem like the gal to go walzing around caring for other people. She is almost too logicaly minded to think like a clinically sane person, but she is rather a troubled person who isn't even capable of even remotely caring. Anyway, your thoughts on Tris's relations to her are quite intriguing to contemplate. It really is quite a good theory I have never concocted (ha-ha, concoct is a fun word) about the possible Jeanine relation. I must say, I compliment you for you observant apperances! I am one to notice personality traits over apperance, so thank you very much for the thought!
I guess I did consider it through the fact that Jeanine knew how to get to Tris through the trial room at the end of the invation by beating herself. At first, I contributed this to her remarkable smarts and her experiments on Tris, but after some thought, that may be because Jeanine just knows how to beat herself, and, let's face it, Tris and her do have some things in common.
You also have to put in consideration the fact that Jeanine is Erudite, which is a faction Tris has the option of excelling in. Who knows? Perhaps Jeanine was divergent herself, greedily looking to find a way to beat herself so she could prevent it by finding the answer in her experiments on Tris because they are so similar?
Long thought, I realize. But book worms shall never be out of thoughts on their fictional world!


Claire I honestly doubt that Edith Prior is Tris' grandmother, because like Adele said Tris is a 'second generation'.


Natalie Adele wrote: "I think you guys are forgetting that tris changed her name went she switched factions. She is also labeled as second generation which meansher parents are first generation. Unless there's a zero ge..."

Tris didn't change her name... it's just a shortform for Beatrice. My name is Natalie, so that would be like me saying my name is Nat.


Devora Tiffany wrote: "I'm sort of confused...I guess Veronica Roth REALLY wrote it that way so that we'd all have to see in the next book. No spoilers, no hints whatsoever. Well hopefully someone cracks the code soon =))"
I feel the same the worst part is the next one comes out till next year.


message 23: by Kat (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kat (DarlingBibliophile) I would assume she might be her aunt. Maybe her mother had a sister that Tris wasn't told about?


message 24: by Kat (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kat (DarlingBibliophile) OU WAIT NO. It might be Natalie, because Edith says that she is going to forget her name and immerse herself in the Faction system as well!


message 25: by Kat (new) - rated it 5 stars

Kat (DarlingBibliophile) Vance wrote: "It can't be natalie, though. Remember that Tris' father was in Erudite then transferred over. Assuming that Natalie's maiden name wasn't Prior (which I'm sure it wasn't), Edith had to have been fro..."

It doesn't say that her father didn't take her mother's last name! it states that they have to take A last name..not the males. :)


message 26: by Ivy (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ivy So are you saying natalie is edith? It could be. But how/why would she change her name? I was thinking it could be Tris dad's sister possibly?


Jamie (The Title Page) I think you are all forgetting that Tris mentioned while, yes, families share last names, one of the parents takes the other's last name.

Not necessarily the father's name. When I read this, I was a bit confused as to why she would mention that the family could take the mother's last name.

And no, Natalie is definitely NOT Edith. She was born Dauntless and switched to Abnegation when she turned 16, Edith was way older in the video when the whole thing started.

Also, don't you think Tris would notice if it was her mother in the video? Her appearance wouldn't have changed that much.

I think Edith is Natalie's mother. She is part of the base gen. Natalie is first generation and Tris is second generation.


Nessa Lynn I remember that Tris was saying that she had a familiar smile.....SOOOO with that being said it has to be close in generations not like a great-great-great-great grandmother or anything. I cannot wait for the 3rd book.


Tiffany So much info to digest. O.O All cool theories, however. One thing that Veronica Roth is good at is to keep us guessing.


message 30: by Lys (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lys I think it was tris' mom too. Remember in the book (more in the beginning) tris mentions somthing about marriage about how the couple decides when they marry who's last name they decide to keep. It usually being the more practicle choice if u one of them was from a fraction transfer. This could be a reason why they kept the prior name instead of taking tris' fathers name. But I think tris would be a little more shocked when she saw her moms face on the screen and she didn't seem like she knew the woman sooo a little weird.
Who really knows tho? Time sure will tell :)


Alexis Well, I don't know, unless Tris' mom's name wasn't actually Natalie, then it couldn't have been her mother. I mean, her mother's name is Natalie not Edith, but who knows? This whole thing is just a mystery that we're all trying to figure out. IT'S SO FUN!


message 32: by Ivy (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ivy Like someone said, if it was tris mom she would have recognized her immediately. Unless Natalie changed her name and her appearance a lot. So I think I'm gonna say Edith is an aunt. Cuz that would fit into the whole second generation thing and the last name and the familiar smile. Veronica Roth is probably having so much fun watching the world try to figure this out!!! I can't wait for number three!


message 33: by Maya (last edited Jun 15, 2012 12:33AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Maya maybe edith is a grandma ?this book has me totally confused . i dont know what to expect from the next book another than mass disaster


Maya Jamie wrote: "I think you are all forgetting that Tris mentioned while, yes, families share last names, one of the parents takes the other's last name.

Not necessarily the father's name. When I read this, I was..."


no i dont think edith is natalie's mom . maybe she's tris dad's mom will make more sense.or maybe not . who knows i assume its from her dads side of the fam


Jamie (The Title Page) Somaya wrote: "Jamie wrote: "I think you are all forgetting that Tris mentioned while, yes, families share last names, one of the parents takes the other's last name.

Not necessarily the father's name. When I re..."



Why would her being Tris's father's mother make more sense?
Why would you assume it's from her father's side?
I think it would make more sense for VR to make her from Natalie's side, seeing as she's made Natalie definitely seem like the stronger parent. Tris's father was very close-minded and wasn't Dauntless.


message 36: by Kia (new) - rated it 4 stars

Kia We know Edith isn't Natalie for 2 reasons Natalie was born Dauntless and switched plus Tris would recognize her own mother because while you don't like at your own reflection Tris always looked at other people.

Both of Tris parents were transfers but when they said 2nd generation instead of meaning 2nd generation born here they could mean 2nd generation of born divergent. Thats how i took it that neither of her parents were divergent so its "skipped" a generation or more. We also have no idea if Tris parents had siblings because if they did from other factions they wouldn't discuss it. I think more than anything i want to see Caleb's reaction i see his head on the verge of explosion with this knowledge.


Maya Kia wrote: "We know Edith isn't Natalie for 2 reasons Natalie was born Dauntless and switched plus Tris would recognize her own mother because while you don't like at your own reflection Tris always looked at ..."

I would love to read what's going on in caleb's head. he has to know something . the kid is a lunatic when it comes to knowledge. I wish we can read something from his pov.

my head hurts from trying to figure out who is Edith prior. I guess were all going to have to wait for next year to come


Tihitina I think Edith Prior is Tris's aunt. I mean she's to old to be a sister, she seems too young for a grandmother so the only reasonable answer would be aunt or some relative. Think about it both Tris's parents came from different factions and she never knew much about their lives. She never knew her mother was dauntless until she became dauntless herself. She never knew her dad had a different faction until after he died. How is she going to know her parents's siblings without knowing much about their lives? I would expect her to be a sister of Tris's dad. But she also has a chance of being Tris's mom's sister since she was fighting for freedom. The dauntless are free so I think she would pick this faction. Anyway, it was a good book. Can't wait for the next one.


Jamie (The Title Page) Kia wrote: "Both of Tris parents were transfers but when they said 2nd generation instead of meaning 2nd generation born here they could mean 2nd generation of born divergent. Thats how i took it that neither of her parents were divergent so its "skipped" a generation or more. We also have no idea if Tris parents had siblings because if they did from other factions they wouldn't discuss it. I think more than anything i want to see Caleb's reaction i see his head on the verge of explosion with this knowledge...."

Tris's mother was Divergent, as stated in the first book.


Charlotte It's probably her grandmother or else her great grandmother
:)


message 41: by Kia (new) - rated it 4 stars

Kia Wait i need to re-read this but the video it doesn't say how old it is right? just that its a video of a woman who changes her name and moved into this dystopian chicago. So for all we know this video if 50 years or more older right? i need to re-read the 1st book again because i think somewhere it points to how long life has been going on inside the gates. edith Prior could have been one of the first inhabitants, this video could be over a hundred years old the more i think about it. Having familiar family features several years later is completely possible, i have pictures of me and my grandmother at the same age and we look like sisters in the baby pictures we look like the same person... genetics, naturally is some freaky stuff.


Kristy Sartain- Whispering Pretty Stories Reviews I think it's a great grandmother or maybe even older. Remember, Edith said eventually they would start seeing divergents pop up and only then should they return to society, or whatever is "out there." They couldn't do all that in one or two generations, and three might even be a stretch, but might be doable.


message 43: by Audrey (last edited Jul 04, 2012 10:28AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Audrey Remember that in the book insurgent it says "Her smile broadens, and for a moment, i feel that I recognize her." this means either, 1. Tris has seen pictures of her, or 2. it reminds her of someone (like her dad). Since Amanda Ritter changed her name to Edith Prior most people assume that she is from Tris' dad's side of the family. Edith has to be old enough so no one remembers her but young enough that some people remember her. She also has to be old enough to be the one who declared the gate and the separation between Chicago and the rest of Illinois. All in all, our best bet is to wonder and wait until fall 2013 when divergent #3 (which has no name yet apparently) comes out. THINK LIKE THE ERUDITE. Btw Natalie and Edith Prior are two different people. I think the file might be from 200 to 500 hundred years ago depending on human life span. Plus Tris mentioned that one parent takes the others last name so it could be from her mother's side of the family or her father's.More likely her father's since her dad has brown hair and according to Tris' description "...a woman with short brown hair..." so does Amanda/Edith. We'll only know in fall of 2013.


Chris Someone posted a link on one of the other discussions. Edith Prior is Tris's grandmother.

Which makes sense as Tris is listed as second generation when she's in Jeanine's labs. That means her parents were first generation born inside the gates. So that would make Edith's generation the zero generation that created both the societies, the factions, and started having children to create the first generation.

What I'm not sure is if Edith is her maternal grandmother, or paternal grandmother. I have a feeling she's possibly the maternal grandmother, but considering her society created the compound and factions it's very possible she was Erudite and is the paternal grandmother.


Mikayla Jean Katherine wrote: "OU WAIT NO. It might be Natalie, because Edith says that she is going to forget her name and immerse herself in the Faction system as well!"

She said, at the beginning of the video, that her name was Amanda Ritter. She did say she would immerse herself and forget her old name, which of course was Amanda Ritter. She said that to prove that she would truly immerse herself she would tell them her own new name. That name was Edith Prior.


Sarah Adele wrote: "I think you guys are forgetting that tris changed her name went she switched factions. She is also labeled as second generation which meansher parents are first generation. Unless there's a zero ge..."

Although that's a good theory, we also have to think about the fact that the person who became Edith was most likely not under 16, which means that she never would have had the opportunity to change factions and names.


Sarah Katherine wrote: "OU WAIT NO. It might be Natalie, because Edith says that she is going to forget her name and immerse herself in the Faction system as well!"

You're forgetting that the women said she was going to change her name to Edith, not that her name was Edith.


Sarah I just thought of something. You know how each faction has names that fit the type of people they are? Well, I'm wondering which faction "Edith" fits into. It actually seems very Abnegation to me and no where near Dauntless. But if Edith really is grandmother, then she can't be Abnegation, she has to be Dauntless or Erudite. Obviously, it fits to Erudite better, because no Dauntless would have that name. Or perhaps she's older than that and really did move into Abnegation. Honestly, I think Abnegation makes the most sense because they are the ones who knew the truth about the outside world first and it seems likely that one of the people behind all this would move into the faction that would eventually know the truth. Thoughts??


Uditi Edith Prior is either her (Tris) aunt or her grandmother.
For Tris to be "Second generation" her parents would have to be first generation which can either mean that they were the first generation to enter the gates or the first generation to be born inside the gates. It obviously can't be her mother otherwise Tris would recognize her straight away. Tris knows nothing about her parents backgrounds apart from their factions so Edith could easily be either her aunt or her grandmother but once again it falls into wether there was a generation zero that started all this or if they are generation one. That I think will make the biggest difference. If Edith IS her aunt then we'll probably be seeing her in the next book and if it's her grandma then we'll get to know a LOT more about her parents. Either way really looking forward to the next book will all the answers.


message 50: by Ellen (new)

Ellen Adele wrote: "I think you guys are forgetting that tris changed her name went she switched factions. She is also labeled as second generation which meansher parents are first generation. Unless there's a zero ge..."

While that's a good theory, i think Tris MIGHT notice if her mother was on that video. And personally i thought "Edith" seemed very abnegation,as she is part of an organsation that is doing very selfless deeds. It onfuses me because if Tris is "second generation", as the simu;ation before Jeanine's office said, then edith must either be her mother or grandmother, but she definetly didnt seem dauntless, and she was described as a woman, not a child, so i don't think she could have changed faction. So that must mean Edith is related to Tris on he father's side, either her father's father, in which case she was Erudite, or her father's sister, or perhaps sister. If she was she could be abnegation and it would fit. What do you think?


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