Insurgent (Divergent, #2) Insurgent discussion


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Tris and Four?

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Ellie Marc I shall be blunt and face public flaming for the statement I'm about to say, but I feel it must be said after just completing Insurgent.

TRIS AND FOUR SHOULD HAVE BROKEN UP.

I'm serious. They hold too many secrets and, at some points, I was downright infuriated with the both of them. The whole book I felt was set up like this:
Trobias lovin'
Action
Trobias ANGST
Drama
Action
Repeat

If they weren't making out and smiling goofily at each other, they were threatening to break up or keeping secrets from one another. And the secrets they kept were HORRIBLY IMPORTANT. Too many times were they not at all sympathetic with each other while others they were too lovey-dovey.
They're still in the honeymooner stage, but once that comes to pass, I really feel like the two won't be able to trust each other ever.


message 2: by W (new) - rated it 3 stars

W I, too, thought that their major issues could have been solved by simple communication. A lot of YA novels irritate me for this reason -- there's so much buildup to get characters into a relationship, but once they are together, they act stupid and seem to forget how to do anything together to build a healthy relationship, like communicate, or work together, or share positive experiences. It seems that once YA couples are an "item" all they do is make out, argue, or try to rescue one or the other. Twilight, Divergent/Insurgent, Matched/Crossed, the Gone series, and the Mortal Instruments series, all follow this same frustrating pattern.


Erin What! No! Tris and Tobias even eachother out! They need to stay together


message 4: by Natalie (last edited May 10, 2012 05:42PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Natalie I think they should stay together. They were in crazy intense situations, and it's hard to decide what you should do in them. They were both thinking of protecting the other one with most of their lies, so they were both thinking they were helping the other one out. And at the end Four realized that Tris was right about the information and teaming up with his dad to get it, and he forgave her because it actually was vital information that she knew they needed to know.
I love Tris and Four. The only way they could ever break up, is if Four leaves Tris for ME! ha


Annabel Parado i think they should stay together, i assume it will justify in the next book.. being Tris very good in analyzing things and needs Four to protect her, we know that Tris still have the Dauntless traits on her but also her Abnegation behavior still holds her courage to fight for herself most of the time. So i guess it is Four which Roth needs to balance the idea of Tris being alive...


message 6: by [deleted user] (new)

I think they should stay together. Yes, they both had secrets, but what they did they did to protect each other. Butttttt, if they DO break up, I CALL DIBS ON TOBIAS!!!! ♥


Mona THEY SHOULD STAY TOGETHER. Im a hopeless romantic haha. But I know they need each other!!!!!


Thatismahogany! I was angry at Tris for saying oh yeah Tobias I'm sorry I shouldn't keep secrets from you lalala and then going right ahead and keeping more secrets from him and lying to him but they SHOULDN'T break up! No way! Tobias said if she risked her life for no reason then they are over but then she risked her life to find the secret info. and i think that's a pretty good reason to risk your life. So they should still be together, bottom line.


Sara At some point I was actually hoping that Tris and PETER would fall in love! I was so sick of her and Tobias fighting. Actually it took me awhile to realize they were even fighting because their fights were so LAME! At least there was some sort of emotion towards Peter even if it was hate, you know what they say about love and hate!


message 10: by Nina (new) - rated it 5 stars

Nina I think that they should stay together! Yes, they have communication problems but that goes back to how their relationship started in the first place. They both could never be truly honest with each other because that just wasn't in their nature and the situation they were in. Their arguments may seem trivial but hey, they're just kids. I think that what they can offer to each other outweighs all of that. They balance each other out.


message 11: by M.R. (new) - rated it 4 stars

M.R. Personally, I thought Tris and Four's conflicts made the book more realistic. Let's face it, their whole world has gone to hell. Everyone is fighting. Their relationship is still new -- it makes sense that Tris would have her opionon on what to do and Four would have his. Sure, they could have communicated better but the setting isn't really ideal for forging their relationship. And Tris is (understandably) pretty messed up. She killed one of her closest friends and her parents are dead. Even if she couldn't help what happened with Will, she's obviously going to be asking her self what she could have done differently (i.e. shooting him in the arm or leg). And being Abnegation originally, it's not natural for her to unburden those feelings to someone else, even Four.


message 12: by Nina (new) - rated it 5 stars

Nina Melissa wrote: "Personally, I thought Tris and Four's conflicts made the book more realistic. Let's face it, their whole world has gone to hell. Everyone is fighting. Their relationship is still new -- it makes se..."

I agree. I also think that Tris and Tobias are both pretty stubborn. I can vouch that my relationship with my boyfriend is similar. Small fights can last forever just because we are both too stubborn to say sorry.. that doesn't make me love him any less.


Darina I got a bit irritated when they made trouble by not sharing vital info.

However, I think in this book their relationship develops. They are both not too trusting people, especially Four, and in this book they learn to trust each other. Tris learns to cope with guilt. The obstacles generally produce too much emotions which has to be overcome, so I can forgive the lack of real conversation between them. They still develop.


Alannah Considering the circumstances they were in, it's kind of understandable that their relationship had its troubles.

Tris killed one of her best friends, she saw both of her parents murdered right before her eyes; ultimately she feels isolated and full of grief and guilt.

Yes, they could've been more honest with each other. But you have to remember, Tris and Four are just kids. They don't know how to deal with their emotions and problems in an idealistic way. And to add, if Tris and Four didn't FIGHT - physically and emotionally - they wouldn't be in Dauntless.


Brent I'm with the first two people to post in this (Ellie and Wendy).

I appreciated the Hunger Games because the relationship contained far less angst. The relationship in this book I found to be a lot more along the lines of Twilight (which I hated). It was just drama for the sake of drama, and I don't think (unlike someone else said) it make for a very realistic relationship.

Tobias especially seemed to go very hot and cold. From the sympathetic to reprimanding her for her actions. And yet, at the end of the day, he did the very same things he was berating her for.

The plot is what keeps me going with these books. Love it. In the first book the relationship didn't really bother me. This one, however, it really got on my nerves at a few points.


Evelyn Sara wrote: "At some point I was actually hoping that Tris and PETER would fall in love! I was so sick of her and Tobias fighting. Actually it took me awhile to realize they were even fighting because their fig..."

Hahahaha...Thank god i wasn't the only one who was hoping that something romantic will happen between peter ad tris. But sadly Veronica roth have said peter and tris will not happen. :(


message 17: by Sara (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sara That's too bad! Don't get me wrong I like 4 but not he and tris. I think they are annoying together. As much as I hate love triangles I would have welcomed this one!


Emma3501 i think four and tris are not going to be so secretive anymore, and I would never want them to break up! whoever wants them to break up has to get over it, because i really don't think veronica roth is going to do that. i think this series is going to end happily ever after.


Emily What?! I think if you are going to give up on a relationship when you have issues like theres then you should just stay home. If you cant git over things like that than what can you git over? not every relationship is sunshine and roses and the Veronica knew young teens would be reading this book.
Not to mention everything that was going on! She killed one of her best friends, she watched her parents die! And four is suddenly reunited with both his parrents! i think they handled themselves just fine.

I Love them together! that was my favorite thing about this book: there relationship.


message 20: by Sara (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sara Seriously guys or girls who haven't dated much. Once you've been with enough frogs you realize why Tris and Tobias suck together. Im not trying to be brutal but most of you are probably like 19 and under. If you've dated you know why Tris and Tobias' relationship is so forced. It's petty and childish. Their relationship reminds me of when I was 16. Lame and immature


Natalie Sara wrote: "Seriously guys or girls who haven't dated much. Once you've been with enough frogs you realize why Tris and Tobias suck together. Im not trying to be brutal but most of you are probably like 19 and..."

well... tris is 16 and four is 18... maybe that's why it reminds you of your relationship when you were 16...?


Maegan True that Nat....that's what I've been thinking this whole time! Tris and Tobias ARE only 16 and 18. I appreciate how Roth maintains that realistic dimension of real teenagers, despite how much they have been forced to grow up in every other way. Certain maturity can't be forced. I think the reals teens reading the series can identify with them and hopefully recognize the possible growth in their relationship. And those of us NOT 16 and 18 can be reminded of the lessons we have (hopefully) already learned. :) Roth knew what she was doing....she knows her characters!


message 23: by [deleted user] (new)

I can say from experience, Honesty and Trust are THE most important things in a relationship. But you have to understand, Tris and Four's relationship in Insurgent was the end of the "Honeymoon" phase for them. In Divergent, they were getting to know each other and learning to trust each other. During the events in Insurgent, they were barely together for maybe a month or so. It takes a while to develop that STRONG of a relationship. But Four and Tris have always has great chemistry and benevolence. They are 16 and 18. They're not completely adults yet and they have so much yet to learn. They are one of my favorite fictional pairings and who else would they have to depend on if they didn't have each other? Four's dad is abusive and his mom is horrible. Tris' parents are dead and her brother went "to the dark side." They need each other, in the end.


message 24: by [deleted user] (new)

Ellie wrote: "I shall be blunt and face public flaming for the statement I'm about to say, but I feel it must be said after just completing Insurgent.

TRIS AND FOUR SHOULD HAVE BROKEN UP.

I'm serious. They hol..."


I thought the honeymoon phase ended when Erudite decided to mass murder their home faction............


April Tris and four need to be together. The way he noticed her despite not being a knock out, and before she was a badass.....you can't help but root for them. They helped develop each other's characters and now we are invested in them and want to see them win. Their relationship was a very strong plot line in both books, I don't think the storyline would be as good without them together.


♕ⒼⓊⒺⒺⓃ♕ I always thought Tris would end up with Uriah...but I really like her with Four. :) Either way is fine with me.


April I love Tris and Tobias together. However, I did read this immediately after reading "Fifty Shades" so I am sure any type of relationship would look completely normal and healthy to me after 3 books of the Christian and Ana debacle.


Trina I agree with the original poster. Tris had to go and do everything possible in this book to stomp all over their relationship. All the lies, secrets, and fighting honestly reminded me of a bad abusive relationship I used to be in.

I don't dislike either character separately, it's just that their actions don't really reflect trust and love. I hope they can either work past it and seriously shape the heck up, or end it while they can still respect each other.


Jackie I would be completly pissed if they break up. I love them together even though they arn't exactly honest with each other, but I think it's because they were both in a lot of pressure. I sure hope things are better between them in the last book. I can't wait for the final book, SO EXCITED!!


Monica Ellie wrote: "I shall be blunt and face public flaming for the statement I'm about to say, but I feel it must be said after just completing Insurgent.

TRIS AND FOUR SHOULD HAVE BROKEN UP.

I'm serious. They hol..."
well in my opinion their relationship got too intense for a teen novel. Almost like "if u jump off a bridge im coming in behind u tris". The stength i seen in the first book were weakened mainly in four. And ya books always have very good stories except the romances which is always too much. The romance took too much of this book and the story did not move along for me which isnt good since i could never get into the war from the first book. But since i rode the rocky roller coaster for two books i will probably read the last to see where it goes


message 31: by Tris&four (new)

Tris&four Im sorry but if you think they should break up because they have "issues" and "argue" then you dont know what makes a relationship. Sure they kept secrets, but they thought they were protecting the other. Just because one minute they are lovey dovey and the next they argue doesnt mean they should break up. They are new to the relationship, they are still trying to figure it out, they kiss, hug, smile, fall out, make up. That's how many relationship are. Just saying...


Natalia Well at the end of Insurgent I think we all saw the flaws in Tris and Tobias' relationship. Tris said herself that if Tobias really loved her he would trust her side of the story, but at first he doesn't. But he did show through in the end. I think that in the end, Tris and Tobias have a really strong relationship because no matter how many times the other may stumble or fail the other is always there. But I wouldn't be surprised if they don't end up together because there are a lot of secrets and lies that go between them. Just my opinion!


message 33: by Jessie (last edited Jun 03, 2012 04:27PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Jessie There are flaws in every relationship, and arguing and issues are part of every single one. Most relationships aren't the "were going to be in love with each other forever and ever and ever, and the world is so glorious and wonderful blah blah blah". Especially after what Tris went through, you can't expect to just go up to her loved one and say "hi. yeah. I just killed my friend, hahaha." She was ashamed of it, and full of guilt. I think in your shoes, you wouldn't admit without hesitation to someone you murdered one of your best friends. Regardless if you had a choice or not. Tris found it morally wrong and it shattered her. I can't blame her for becoming so full of angst, because she is extremely young and considering how she just lost her parents and murdered her friend, I don't think anyone would be all "ho-hum!" and then skip down the streets joyously. If they did. I'd be seriously worried that they are a complete sociopath.
They're going through war together, people important to them are dying, and as young as they are, they have the responsibility of fighting back because they are divergent. Emotions in such situations aren't balanced and perfected. Even without these raging problems, most of us are to a certain degree -emotionally unstable.
I feel that they care about each other, and want to protect each other. As they mature, they will get through obstacles and become more stabilized together as a whole.


message 34: by Alexia (new) - added it

Alexia Madziwo I think the reason behind all the tension created between them in this book was to keep the book from turning sour, you know? Most of what we read, as in trilogies, always result with a relationship finally created in the third and final book, e.g The darkest power trilogy by Kelley Armstrong. So having the happily ever after in the beginning restricts you from wondering with intrigue, 'what will happen next?'. Stracrossed had a very alluring, mind blowing relationship implemented into it, yes? And people were satisfied by that because of the idea that it would still be built on in the rest of the books, but Dreamless (the second book in the trio) introduced a love triangle. Honestly i felt it was stupid, but if you really think about it, the book would have been dry without it. Sometimes change needs to be accepted for the better. That irritation that grows inside of you? Well, that's just a sign of interest and your liking of the book! The world works in mysterious ways, i know... So there really is no reason for Tris and Four to break up...


Cheyenne I know Tris and four argue a lot, but if they would just admit that the other one could be right and concentrate on what they should be doing about this mess they're in, things would be a lot better!


Bianca Sara wrote: "At some point I was actually hoping that Tris and PETER would fall in love! I was so sick of her and Tobias fighting. Actually it took me awhile to realize they were even fighting because their fig..."

Okkayyy I thought I was the only flippin one..... I thought I was being stupid but I at first never even pictured them together!! But at the end of the book and the start of Insurgent I was definitely rooting for them..


Bianca And I can't stop calling him Four!!!


message 38: by Sara (new) - rated it 3 stars

Sara Bianca wrote: "And I can't stop calling him Four!!!"
HAHA he will always be 4 to me too!


Brian Ok... have you even read this book yet? while they do fight and argue alot do to communitaction issues, that is understandable. The book never says they break up, and at the end, Tobias gets Caleb to play "the message" in front of everyone. This leaves you to believe he finnaly trusts her, and leaves open the fact that they MIGHT forgive each other and continue the relationship.


Chisom *AngelBooky* there was a reason Tris was only Abnegation, Dauntless, and Erudite but not Amity the honest


Bianca I lovveeeee Tris and Four together.. They're totally relatable and I just love them...


The Mighty Katara Chisom *AngelBooky* wrote: "there was a reason Tris was only Abnegation, Dauntless, and Erudite but not Amity the honest"

Candor are the honest ones; Amity is the peaceful faction.


Bianca The Mighty Katara wrote: "Chisom *AngelBooky* wrote: "there was a reason Tris was only Abnegation, Dauntless, and Erudite but not Amity the honest"

Candor are the honest ones; Amity is the peaceful faction."



Ha yeah but we get the point((;


Gabrielle - Clebastian 4ever Sara wrote: "At some point I was actually hoping that Tris and PETER would fall in love! I was so sick of her and Tobias fighting. Actually it took me awhile to realize they were even fighting because their fig..."
That would acc be so awesome!!!


Kelia Melissa wrote: "Personally, I thought Tris and Four's conflicts made the book more realistic. Let's face it, their whole world has gone to hell. Everyone is fighting. Their relationship is still new -- it makes se..."

I totally agree with you. The relationship is completely new, and let's face it; they are still getting to know eachother. In our mind almost a year has past, but in their world it's only been 3 months at the most. And half of that time they weren't even together. I like the relationship and it's potentional. I enjoy the real-ness of it. She's not all obsessed and can't breathe when she looks at him. To that isn't love, that's obsession. Tris and Tobias love one another equally, and in a time like that, what more can a person ask for?!


message 46: by Meg (new) - rated it 5 stars

Meg At some point I was actually hoping that Tris and PETER would fall in love! I was so sick of her and Tobias fighting.

Hold up a minute...Am I the only one who believes this to be an absurd idea?! Peter not only sexually assaulted her in Divergent he also tried to kill her! How could ANY of you support a romance between Tris and a boy who disrespected her body. The fighting between Tris and Tobias is completely understandable given the circumstances. They care about each other and Tobias would never treat her the way Peter did. Peter is scum. End of story.


Bianca Meg wrote: "At some point I was actually hoping that Tris and PETER would fall in love! I was so sick of her and Tobias fighting.

Hold up a minute...Am I the only one who believes this to be an absurd idea?! ..."


Well yeah I think that NOW.. but before I couldn't really tell who Tris was gonna be with. But the second I saw Tris and Four/Tobias together I loved them. I love them more than I did with any Hunger Games or Twilight book.


Gabrielle - Clebastian 4ever Bianca wrote: "Meg wrote: "At some point I was actually hoping that Tris and PETER would fall in love! I was so sick of her and Tobias fighting.

Hold up a minute...Am I the only one who believes this to be an ab..."

but I think like in the 3rd book we might find out why Peter is like how he is??? He acc might be like alright-ish... I like him anyway x


Kelia Meg wrote: "At some point I was actually hoping that Tris and PETER would fall in love! I was so sick of her and Tobias fighting.

Hold up a minute...Am I the only one who believes this to be an absurd idea?! ..."


Oh I'm with you on that. There is absolutely no way in hello Tris would even think twice about Peter. It may be possible they could become friends wheb she's not thinking about how much she hates him, but anything more would be insane. That would the be a punch in the face to Tobias, considering he was the one who saved her from him.


Bianca Gabrielle wrote: "Bianca wrote: "Meg wrote: "At some point I was actually hoping that Tris and PETER would fall in love! I was so sick of her and Tobias fighting.

Hold up a minute...Am I the only one who believes t..."


Me too(: but I prefer Tris with Tobias/Four/whatever-the-heck-we're-supposed-to-call-him


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