I loved The Italian version and the Garfield-Turner film (even though Lana was very different physically then in the book). The book' language is great. Love some of the dialouge.

right off the top of my head...i loved the movie 'true romance' with patricia arquette and christian slater. i know they are not really cureent actors but for crazy lovers those two were good in that film. also, if you could roll back the clock i think viggo mortensen and helena bonham carter would work with anthony hopkins as the husband.

Nice, fostergrants! I'm with you in the ranking, except I didn't see the Jack version.

1. The book was awesome, and what separated it to me from other books with a similar story was the grit, the realism, and the fact that the two main characters seemed to enjoy biting, and foreplay included beating the crap out of each other at the scene of their own inflicted homicide. They were nuts and perfectly matched in their nuttiness. And that was funny to me.

2. What was fresh about the book seemed to be everything that was left out of the Lana Turner adaptation. Lana Turner was perfectly coiffed and polished, walking in the room for the first time looking like a pin-up poster. James Garfield was clean-shaven & baby-faced, stepping off the truck that he'd been hitchhiking on. That first kiss (and I was watching for it)--no biting. Haha. I understand that none of those elements would have gotten past the censors in those days. So be it. It was nice, for what it was. Pretty, polished, Hollywoodized version of the book.

3. Obssessione captured a little more of the grit, the reality of these desperate lives. The main characters were pretty, but dirty, and you believed that they were miserable. Regardless of being linked to this novel, this stands alone as an interesting film--the Italianization of it (the bicycles, the settings, the language) was fresh and interesting to me. Props to the director for getting the overtly homosexual character past the censors. He created more of a conflict to the story--in that Frank had more of a choice to make--life on the road with this guy, or domesticated life with Cora.

Fostergrants, if you're listening, who do you think would make a nice Frank & Cora out of today's actors & actresses?

did we finish this thread? am i a late bloomer? oh well...i read the book and watched all three versions so fuckitall i'm gonna follow through!

in order of likes

1. the book
2. ossessione
3. lana turner version
4. jack nicholson version

i enjoyed the book. never read anything quite like it but i enjoyed the style for something different and all that talk about hellcats was lovely. the ways that each movie tiptoed around the book's racism was interesting. the ossessione version actually had some passion and sweat in it and i enjoyed the locations and extra characters more (you're right tosh, the gay element was nice and it added some real depth to the drifter). the nora character in ossessione was the best, the way she hangs her head and the exhaustion in her face - reminded me of a silent film actress. the little opera bit was a very nice touch as well and reinforced the emotion in the film. the lana turner version was a great piece of film but the characters were too flat for me, the drifter guffawed and kissed ass a bit too much and the greek was too likeable. the jack nicholson version, well i disliked it very much. the drifter was supposed to be beautiful - jack is not, and he's too much of a windbag to believe a hellcat would spend so much time getting into his pants. that character needs to be someone younger, more tempting, and much HOTTER! i also think jessica lange has the passion of a stinky sock so seeing her with jack was just "eww". that is my two cents.

well i finished the book and the lana turner version movie last night. there was a handy trailer on the disk for the 1981 lange/nicholson version...i have to admit that jessica lange gives me an itchy rash so i'm hoping this does not completely turn my objectivity askew. i do think, just from the trailer, that the '81 version might be a bit rougher which to me is closer to the book - we'll see!

I really like how Goodis puts the reader (well, at least me) in this world which I feel probably doesn't exist - but only in one's mind. I like all of Goodis' work more than the films based on his novels.

"Cockfighter" is a small masterpiece - "Huckleberry Finn" if it had been written for the pulp industry. (The movie is good, but not in the same class as the book...)

Cockfighter is one of those rare instances where I can't decide whether I like the book or the movie more--they're both just so darn good. Another one is A Hell of a Woman (adapted as Serie Noire) by Jim Thompson.

I also recommend Charles Willeford -- great stuff. Try Kiss Your Ass Goodbye, Pick-Up, Cockfighter or Miami Blues. There are several film adaptations of his work also -- Miami Blues, The Woman Chaser, and my personal fave, Cockfighter (another Monte Hellman/Warren Oates collaboration). Willeford also published a couple of memoirs that are worth checking out if you can find them -- I Was Looking for a Street and Something About a Soldier.

Dunno abt anyone else, but I thought Altman did a great job on "Thieves Like Us.'' I don't include Cain in this category, but I thnk a lot of the noir folks (Jim Thompson, even Willeford) to some extent are overrated as writers by people who are attracted to the sensibility, tho the prose doesn't justify it. Altman's post-modern "Long Goodbye'' brilliant, of course, tho the movie and book were great, too. "After Dark, My Sweet'' better as movie than book (check out Jason Patric and Jennifer Jason Leigh in "Rush,'' too. Does anyone really think Goodis' version of "Shoot The Piano Player'' was better than Truffaut's? This not a response/critique to Robert, just an overall observation.

I'll pick up Willeford.

For the record, I, too, love Mamet and when I saw his name roll by in the opening credits, I thought I was in for treat. But the dialogue lacked the rapid fire, interlocked patter that has made him famous.

The other big flaw was that his script left out the much of the characters’ motivation. I thought it was just me because I’d read the book and saw the Garfield/Turner version of the movie, but a quick survey of reviewer comments on Amazon.com shows that I am not alone. Those Amazonians lauded period setting for the film and the sex scenes, but for me that latter was passionless, like a fake gas log fire, all light and little heat.

In the 1946 version of the film you know for certain that Cara and Frank would attempt murder – twice – for love. In the later film, not so much. Mamet, in trying to humanize Cara and Frank so we could learn to at least like the murderers, lost their edginess that successfully drove the plot in the book and earlier film.

Don’t get me wrong. As I said before, I love Mamet and will watch almost anything he does, because even if the story drags, his verbal patter sparkles. Like early Tarantino, it doesn’t resemble real speech, but does mimic the rhythm of conversation. Besides, it was his first credit in moviedom. (He wrote the script for the verdict before this, but it did get to the big screen until the following year.)

My final observation before I shut up is that I love how the 1946 version of the film gets the law in the picture early. Frank rides into town with the D.A. and meets the cop before he ever sets foot in the diner. Even the cop is scared of the D.A. Franks being fitted for the noose before he thinks about the crime. A nice touch that sets the twin wheels of doom and inevitability in place before the late comers have even settled in their seats.

So I lied, one more thing: kudos to those who picked this book and film combo. Lots to talk about and see. Thanks.

No argument with Tony's endorsement on Thompson. "The Killer Inside Me" is one of the flat-out sickest, scariest books I've ever read... (Interesting noir fun-fact: Thompson has a cameo as a judge in the 1975 film of Chandler's "Farewell, My Lovely.")
I like much of Elmore Leonard (but I actually prefer his Westerns) but he strikes me as having a much greater sense of humor than Cain. Also very reminiscent of Cain is the greatly underrated Charles Willeford.

The Mamet screenplay is really kind of boring. And I usually like his OWN works. "House of Cards," etc. Jim Thompson is not my favorite noir guy, but he is a really interesting writer and character. His work with Kubrick is really interesting. Kubrick really had a sense of genius in getting interesting people to work with him . Weegee (he shot the stills for Dr. Strangelove), Thompson, Southern, Nabokov, etc.

from L. A. Exile: A Guide to Los Angeles Writing 1932–1998:

Cain explained his decision to work, and his failure to be successful, as a screenwriter:

I wanted the picture money. I worked like a dog to get it. I parked my pride, my aesthetic convictions, my mind outside on the street, and did everything to be a success at this highly paid trade. I studied the "Technique" of moving pictures. I did everything to become adept at them. The one thing I could not park was my nose. My dislike of pictures went down to my guts, and that's why I couldn't write them.

In your discussion on crime fiction, I noticed that you left off two prolific writers whose excellent books have become very good films. I’m thinking of Elmore Leonard and the pulp fiction writer Jim Thompson.

Thompson wrote The Killer Inside Me, The Grifters, the Getaway and After Dark My Sweet. Of that quartet, After Dark My Sweet is probably the least well known, but the best book/movie. The original screen version of The Getaway is a solid piece of movie making with Sally Struthers turning in a minor role before fame found her. Thompson also went onto Hollywood where he collaborated with Stanley Kubrick on a couple of movies.

When I read Cain, I was reminded of Elmore Leonard and his ability to nail the dialogue of the grimmer side of life. For a while, there had been a flurry of mostly forgettable Leonard movies, though a recent few have hit the mark, like Out of Sight, Get Shorty and Jackie Brown (Tarantino’s take on Rum Punch). Both Jackie Brown and Out of Sight were well directed and acted. Even Jennifer Lopez found a role she couldn’t butcher.

Of the two American versions of The Postman, give me the first one any day. It’s truer to the novel’s dark style and sense of inevitability. Mamet’s screenplay in the second movie takes liberties with the novel that I’m not sure help the story. While he opens up the movie, it drags, pulled back by the weight of unnecessary scenes and an odd need to show that Frank and Cara were in love and more than the animals mentioned above. In trying to invest the Frank and Cara with some traits worthy of loving, he cut out the parts that made them commit a heinous crime twice. These aren’t lovable people, which was okay for Cain and the first version of the movie, but apparently Mamet didn’t see it that way.

Oh, Fostergrants, I feel your pain! Take consolation in knowing that once you get the book, it's a very quick read.

Alison, loved the Chandler on Cain quote especially the "Proust in greasy overalls". Personally, I'm not really sure I'd consider that an insult... So does that mean that it would take a donut to jumpstart his memory instead of the famed madeleine???

I watched the Lana Turner/John Garfield Postman last night and I have to say it's also quite good. I'm still a bit more partial to Visconti but there's some really good stuff in this one too. It's definitely a closer adaptation of the book. And for those of you inclined towards leggy blonds - that opening shot of Lana Turner is killer. Lipstick rolling on the floor, pan to her legs and what an outfit! And you can't beat the beautiful, soulful bad boy John Garfield. Yeah... I enjoyed it. And the DVD has an interesting bio segment on Garfield as well. It made me want to read more about him.

Don't worry Fostergrants (or whoever's behind them these days..) that's Internet time for you. Everything's happening all at once but it's really not happening at all.. You're only as real as your last post...

damn damn damn...my book and movies for this are still in the mail. i feel like i'm once again that short kid at the playground trying to get onto that spinning merry go round thingy and it is going too fast!

I found this awesome quote on detnovel.com (detective fiction & film). This is Raymond Chandler on Cain...Cain was "every kind of writer I detest, a faux naif, a Proust in greasy overalls, a dirty little boy with a piece of chalk." And Billy Wilder called Chandler "a virtuoso alcoholic."

I love these people. They're all crazy as loons.

Well that shows that Visconti is the Led Zepplin of filmmaking. Totally rockin and only the little girls (and the boys) can understand the substance - Ossessione rocks in a very primitive way - think of this as a raw rockabilly record. Although it lasts 2 and a half hours it's an amazing piece of filmmaking. And yeah Cain must have been burned by the Insurance industry somwhere in his life.. He hates those people!

Tosh, I looked up the Wikipedia entry for Ossessione and Visconti did make this while the fascist government was still in power and not only that but the government destroyed his negative. Apparently Visconti had another copy so we still have this fantastic film. I actually hadn't realized this film was made so early. I had thought it was post-war.

LOL - I was already planning to add Death in Venice as a suggestion for February! Gotta love Visconti! Is Rocco and His Brothers a literary adaptation??? I don't think it is but that's another one of my favorites.

I watched Ossessione last night and it's really fantastic! I know a few of you have yet to watch it so I'll hold off a bit before chatting too much.

I have to agree with Tosh in that it's a notch better than the book. Though unlike Tosh I quite enjoyed the book. The film removed the little bits of the book that I didn't like which is when Cain left his minimalist style and went into convoluted descriptions of the murder plot and the insurance industry machinations. The film nicely glossed over those bits and focused more on the relationship of the two leads.

I'm going to try to watch the MGM version tonight.

I've got nothing against Netflix personally and will ask someone with an account to nab "Ossessione" for me. So it will probably be another week or so before I watch any of the films.
It's been a long time since I've seen either of the "Postman" films, but my recollection is that they spend a lot more time on the relationship between Cora and Frank, with the murder and its repercussions only making up the last third of the films. I was surprised that the death of the Greek comes much earlier in the novel, about half way through. It makes for an interesting shift of emphasis. If you focus on the passion between the pair, the idea of "a guy pulled down by the wrong woman" becomes more important, while the book gives a much greater sense of how they betray each other when things go wrong. (This is probably a completely irrelevant comparison, but I was reminded of the dissolution of one of my favorite literary couples, Winston and Julia in "1984".)
And one more note - if "The Leopard" ends up as the January selection, the group may have to change its name to "Literature and Visconti". "Death in Venice" for February, anyone?

So sorry to push with the Netflix, Robert. Sounds like you're backed up as is. Here's your quote..."[Hammett:] took murder out of the Venetian vase and dropped it into the alley... [He:] gave murder back to the kind of people who do it for a reason, not just to provide a corpse; and with means at hand, not with handwrought dueling pistols, curare, and tropical fish." (curare meaning arrow poison) Raymond Chandler, in The Simple Art of Murder

The Glass Key/Yojimbo/A Fistful of Dollars would have been a fabulous selection. And maybe even Miller's Crossing, too.

Gary, I'm not sure about your question. If you wanted to watch 10 films, you would put them in your queue, and then they would come depending on the plan that you picked out...one at a time, two at a time, unlimited. After you choose your film, it usually takes two business days to get it (I sound like an advertisement). Check out their website (www.netflix.com).

I think it's important to remember Billy Wilder's observation that nobody ever said "Oh, I'm working on a film noir over at Paramount". Noir is a critical construction that was applied to films after the cycle had already begun. Similarly, I don't think Cain, Chandler, Hammett or anybody else consciously set out to be "hardboiled". They simply wrote stories they way they thought they needed to be told and resisted any efforts to categorize their work. I love Chandler's line (I'm paraphrasing) that Hammett took murder out of the parlor room and gave it back to people who commit it for a reason.
Re: "Red Harvest", Bertolucci has actually been linked to this at least as far back as 1976. I'm not sure who owns the film rights now or why it's never been filmed before, but it's clearly an influence on "Miller's Crossing" (and "A Fistful of Dollars" and "Yojimbo" and "Chinatown" and...)
And just a final note: I've got no grudge against Netflix (or GreenCine, which I'm told has a better selction), I've just never had to use them. (My desk is literally covered with about 250 films I haven't had time to watch, from screeners to downloads-of-questionable-origin) But I may ask someone with a Netflix account to pull the Visconti film for me. I've already got the other versions on hold at the library.
Alison: If you're just starting on Chandler, Hammett et. al - I almost envy you. I remember the first Chandler I read - "The High Window" - and while I knew the detective genre and had been reading a fair amount of Mickey Spillane (who is to Chandler and Hammett what the Three Stooges are to Buster Keaton and Jacques Tati)- I was just overwhelmed my the confidence and authority in Chandler's voice, that troubled presence beyond the simple tough-guy heroics. The experience was later confirmed by my first Hammett ("The Glass Key") - and while I have a strong preference for Chandler, a recent re-reading of all of Hammett's work (plus a familiarity with his surprisingly courageous and tragic life) convinced me that his work transcends simple generic concerns.

thanks, alison; i think of the trio as the agememnon, sophocles, and euripedes of classical pulp mystery noir, as well as the hegelian thesis - antithesis - synthesis

amazing to realize that the red harvest you're reading is just as it appeared in the pulps

i recall hearing bertolucci wanted to film it starring jack nicholson, following all his oscars for the last emperor, yet couldn't get backing ...

oh and i don't have netflix either ... and don't watch dvd's yet, 'tho there's a slot in this computer for them ... prefer going out ...

it's part topic of a blog i've only just begin ... http://nowsreel.blogspot.com

question : if there are, say 10 films i'd like to see via netflix, how long before they'd appear in my cue? 2 months? 30 days? 2 weeks?

Gary: that was a beautiful little breakdown of those three writers. I have recently read my first Chandler, my first Cain, and am currently reading Red Harvest (Hammett), so I'll be referring back to that. It's fun to read them back to back...it makes their differences jump out at you.

Regarding Cain's lineage (and others) this is interesting...

"In style and substance, Coen brothers movies show a heavy debt to the crime genre of film noir. In particular, Miller's Crossing is based on the works of Dashiell Hammett, particularly The Glass Key and Red Harvest, Big Lebowski on Raymond Chandler and The Man Who Wasn't There on James M. Cain - making up what is known as their Noir Trilogy.

The Coen brothers' film The Man Who Wasn't There pays homage to film noir, with a plot that seems an update/twist of The Postman Always Rings Twice."

And also..."Blood Simple is a 1985 neo-noir crime film. The film's title derives from Dashiell Hammett's novel Red Harvest, in which 'blood simple' is a term coined to describe the addled, fearful mindset people are in after a prolonged immersion in violent situations."

Robert, no Netflix? You must get on that!

tosh, i was hooked by the very first sentence:

"They threw me off the hay truck at about noon."

Wow! 9 terse american monosyllables + 1 2-syllable word, making such a beautiful line. (love the rhyme of the ooo in threw and noon ... ) Don't ask who "they" are -- but that question does linger. (like that joke: when you know who "they" are, you no longer need psychoanalysis.

— or the beginning of wyatt's poem to anne boleyn:

"they flee me that lately did me seek")

And with that I've identified with a character who'll prove to be ... not so much an unstable narrator, as they say today ... but, well, the Bad Guy ... the criminal ... the psychopath, etc.

Amazing!

From that "lift" he builds a propulsive drive (momentum) that grows into a runaway train ...

And the moments of dialogue, going on for pages without "he said, she said" --- counting as muscular event, in and of itself, as much as any action in the plot.

sheesh!

thanks for the tip about the film, robert — and your breath of fresh air about noir. Yes, it started as a literary term: city lights did an anthology in english which breton had edited which goes all over the map. As for film, it IS a style before it is any genre: very important point, since there are noir westerns, screwballs, documentaries, etc. Until 1950 when it becomes something else ...

the first noir film, i'd say, would be Ingster's THE STRANGER ON THE 3rd FLOOR, 1940 ...

I am feeling kind of spaced out with the two film versions of the book plus reading the damn book.

I just saw the Rafelson version, and Ossessione is a far superior film. I think Rafelson maybe closer to the book, but this is how I see it now.

Ossessione is better than the novel and the novel is better than the Rafelson film. In fact I border-line hate the Rafelson film because I can't stand that 80's style of gritty - and basically as much as Iove Nicholson, it's movie star acting. Which is at times great - but when you compare it to the acting in Ossessione - it just doesn't match up to the high grade. And I bet you Nicholson would agree with me!

And again the added 'gay' character or the gay relationship in Ossessione is an interesting side-line to the story. Also I can feel the obsession and fears in the Visconti film, in Rafelson's version, it goes into the eyes and I am sort of daydreaming about the Italian version. The book itself hasn't really grabbed me for some reason. I am half way through it.

I dunno; Jessica and Jack on the kitchen table were pretty hot; Rafelson has a strong sensibility; the movie/remake may have been flawed, but definitely had its moments. Liked Lana, Garfield, too, of course. Will try to check out Visconti if I ever get off the internet...

"Noir" was actually a literary term and - obviously - a foreign one at that. Many of the great hardboiled writers were published in France in uniform black-covered editions called "Serie Noir", so the word came to describe that kind of fiction. Later a film critic noticed similarities between those books and a new darker, streak of crime film, so movies like "Double Indemnity" and "The Maltese Falcon" , he wrote an article called "Americans also make 'noir' films". The term stuck, though it didn't really get much attention in the US until the early 70s when Paul Schrader and Raymond Durgnat wrote influential articles and "Film Comment" devoted an entire issue to the subject - I think this was in 1972. In some ways, study of film noir has extended beyond the literary model and many think of it as a visual style rather than a genre. (Durgnat lists "King King" and "Snow White and the Seven Dwarves" as examples), which may be something worth thinking about when you watch the "Postman" films. The MGM version is certainly slicker than something like "The Lady from Shanghai" or "Detour".

Gary, there is a film version of "The Little Sister" dating from the mid-60s. It's simply called "Marlowe" and James Garner is good in the title role. It also uses a contemporary setting rather than stick with the era of the novel (it even has a great cameo by Bruce Lee). In a way it's a precursor of both Altman's version of "The Long Goodbye" (I'm not claiming it's nearly as good) and Garner's tv series "The Rockford Files". Anyway, it's worth a look and shows up on TCM from time to time. Coincidentally, I started re-reading "Thieves Like Us" yesterday too...

the visconti is my favorite too. zola's therese raquin certainly is a paradigm ('tho cain attributed "the love rack" to an unnamed hollywood producer, perhaps to cover his steal).

in comparing cain to chandler i'd start with hammet, whose prose was cool, workmanlike realism, with a detective's p.o.v. on the side of law & order.

cain is antithetical to that, taking the p.o.v. of the criminal. and the prose style is hotter: the dialogue for example sizzles at times, and it all moves with quicker pace and harder propulsive drive.

then chandler comes in as a synthesis of those two, with a detective who knows both sides and is often on the outs with both; and a prose style that's red-hot, with sprung metaphors, jazzy prose, baroque plots, etc. (they never filmed his little sister by the way.

i discovered thieves like us at a thrift store (now defunct) at 2 pm, began reading it on the way home and couldn't put it down until i finished the last word. didn't care for the film.

I just saw Ossessione (again) and I found my copy at the local rental. It's a fantastic film. The book is short, yet the film is over 2 hours long! Nevertheless I am going to watch the Nicholson film in a couple of hours.

But saying this, the Visconti has a gay context, Gino (the main male character) has a run in with a fellow traveler, who is gay. It's obvious that they are having a relationship, but not sure if Gino is hustling or is not sure of himself sexually.

I haven't finished re-reading the book yet, but I think I like the Visconti film better than the novel.

It was shot in 1942, was this before the fall of the Fascist Govt?

I love Jack Nicholson's movies especially One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest, Five Easy Pieces ((the greatest ordering of food exchange in the history of the movies or in all of history possibly)), The King of Marvin Gardens etc but I saw him in The Postman and didn't like it at all. Maybe I missed something but I'm going to see one of the other 2 versions.

Also picked up Double Indemnity and Mildred Pierce in a double book. I'm not going to read both. If you've read both, let me know which one you would read,why or just tell me about Mildred Pierce since I know a little about Double Indemnity. Thanks.

Robert, interesting comment about the depression. Even though in the back of my mind I knew this was taking place during the depression, I wasn't really thinking about that. I'm sure that added to the fatalistic outlook for these two.

And the interesting thing to me about the two choices that you see the characters as having is that both seem like traps. It's a damned if they do, damned if they don't situation. They've both gotten to points in their lives where they can't keep on the way they have been but they can't do anything else either. When Frank goes away with the wildcat trainer, it doesn't work for him. He just comes back. He's basically had enough of the drifting. Yet coming back isn't the answer either...

But as you say Frank at least talks as if he's more comfortable with the choices whereas Cora seems lost and unsure. But ultimately I think they are both lost in every sense of the word.

Robert, I'm sorry I hadn't checked on the availability of Ossessione before selecting this title for this month's reading and I now see that it doesn't seem to be in print anymore :( I was able to rent a copy from Netflix. I would imagine that any good rental store in your area would have a copy as it was previously available. I also recommend considering Netflix. Their pricing is fair and their selection is excellent and it couldn't be easier to use.

I'm going to try to watch the Visconti and the MGM versions this weekend. I haven't seen either in a really long time.

I finished the book this morning - I don't really recall when I read it last, but it seemed very fresh to me. (And followed it up by re-reading McCoy's "They Shoot Horses, Don't They?" - a few interesting common points with "Postman"). I've got the MGM and Rafelson versions on order but don't have a lne on the Visconti. (I'm not a Netflix user; is it readily available?
So I'm still trying to get my thoughts together.
One thing that occurred to me is that as part of the inevitable presence of the Depression (when did people in the Depression actually realize that they were in one?) Frank sees life as a choice between staying in one place or drifting, and clearly favors the latter. But Cora sees her choices as either being a wife - and therefore morally "good"- or being a "hellcat". Both of them are positioning a choice between domesticity and "freedom" but while Frank is comfortable with the distinction, Cora isn't.
(The symbolism behind Frank's brief fling with the wildcat-trainer - a woman who seems to be more comfortable with a laissez-faire definition of her sexuality - is pretty obvious. She 's used to being a hellcat..)

I got a nice hardback edition of the book on my lap and got two of the films: Visconti and Rafleson (Jack Nicholson) version. I will write later - things are going to happen.

.. and don't forget the opera.

Tosh...what? No stage version of Postman? I was really hoping people would take this seriously. :>

In the Japanese to English dictionary, under "Otaku" is a picture of you Tosh!

I look forward to your comments...

Just got Postman and will give page-by-page critiques. Then I am going to watch all three versions - and give (thanks DVD) a criique every other frame. Then I am going to re-read Postman while watching each film version. But that's not all. I am then going to rent three TV's and watch all at the same time while reading Postman. So it's going to be a wild (and weird) weekend.

Hey Jim! I don't usually read books according to season, but right now I'm reading A Christmas Carol by Dickens (who else?) for my Gilmore Girls group, and I read Holidays on Ice as well. I was a little hesitant to read "Carol" b/c I thought it would be tired and stale and over-adapted, and there are parts that are, but I'm also reading it for the first time as an adult with some years of living behind me, and I'm finding it insightful in ways that I couldn't have known anything about when I was younger. So, overall, I'm enjoying it! It really, really will break your heart if you let it.

I usually read one or two of the picks from the best of the past year lists around Christmas. I think it was last year (?) I read "The Year of Magical Thinking"....so, I may not do that again this year (haha).

Finished Postman yesterday and can't believe I didn't know a thing about Cain. I love Raymond Chandler but I think Cain is up there.

Cain's lines near the end of one chapter about when Frank looked into Cora's eyes, he saw stars and thought he was in church was great.

In very few words, Cain communicates to everyone who has looked into the sky where there is no ground light and saw how many stars there are in the sky for the first time, who has been in church (for even people like me who aren't very religious and know how much death, torture, repression and screwed up people religion has generated) what Frank was feeling.

Not only does Cain do the preceding in 3 short sentences (certainly shorter than what I said above), Cain communicates how infrequently Frank probably has had that kind of feeling in his life without having to go into some tortured psychological rap/description/flashback of Frank or his life.

The more I think about it, the better Cain gets and the more likely I'll read Postman again and some more of his books soon.

Right now I'm making yself finish up Unhooked which is really good and important for me to read and I'm going to do it very soon.

What books do any of you read to get yourself into the mood for the holidays or to assess how your life was in 2007 or how your 2008 looks.

I'm convinced that you have to choose carefully what you read because when you dedicate hours to a book (movie,people,a job etc) you are expending the most important commodity there is , i.e., Your Time.

I know Thanksgiving is past but thank all of you for helping me spend that most important commodity so richly over the past few months that I've had the pleasure to be a part of your Group.

If I could hire Cain to write how much I'm looking forward to our interaction in 2008, he'd probably write


Jim read the posts from The Lit and Film Group of Goodreads.com.
He saw people reading books and typing on computers.
Jim felt like he was in a library.

Oh, sorry Jim. I misunderstood. Hmmm. I don't know. It only took me a few minutes to find that Flickr page with the pulp covers. I freelance so my schedule is very up and down. You'll see me disappear at times...

As for which version of Postman to watch, it's really up to you. My favorite is Visconti's Ossessione but I also think the Lana Turner/John Garfield version is quite good. I wasn't so keen on the Jack Nicholson version but I'm going to try to rewatch it. You can watch whichever versions you'd like. I think we'll be discussing all of them.

Kimley - I didn't mean mechanically - I was wondering how you have enough time to find all these things and do all the other things that life demands.
Also what movie version of Postman should we view?

Google is my friend :)

Kimley - checked out the Flickr's site, it was really great. So far every site you have cited has been right on the money. How do you do it?

Of course, I was jumping all over reading about Cain last night, and I found out two interesting things (at least)...

1. Cain did not like being put into the "box" of noir fiction, and preferred that his books stand alone as novels regardless of their genre.

"I make no conscious effort to be tough, or hard-boiled, or grim, or any of the things I am usually called. I merely try to write as the character would write, and I never forget that the average man, from the fields, the streets, the bars, the offices and even the gutters of his country, has acquired a vividness of speech that goes beyond anything I could invent, and that if I stick to this heritage, this logos of the American countryside, I shall attain a maximum of effectiveness with very little effort."
(from the Preface to Double Indemnity)

2. Raymond Chandler helped Billy Wilder adapt the screenplay for Double Indemnity. I was wondering why Cain wouldn't be involved in this himself. I thought maybe he was deceased at the time, but he actually lived longer than Chandler. Then I thought, maybe he had an aversion to Hollywood, but I saw that he worked on other screenplays. There's likely a story there involving money or ego...or something.

Kimley, so true about the references to animalism...particularly about being a "hell cat"...lots of "cat" imagery running throughout. I'll be anxious to see if there are cats (big or small) in any of the films.

Jim, I'm not familiar with the specific cover designs for Postman but was referring more to a style prevalent in the 40s and 50s for pulp fiction which was typically quite tawdry, trashy and without any literary pretentions.

I did find this great Flickr set of someone's pulp fiction collection:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hangfireboo...