I really enjoyed the book & couldn't put it down, but I agree with the issues with bonding, impression the knowledge he had & what he lacked. Still, I could suspend my belief fairly easily on those counts. Hey, I'm believing history is so similar even with the presence of dragons.

I think what got me was how well behaved the dragon was. He's a predator, very hungry & had people around who were afraid of him. He didn't so much as take a bite out of any of them. He's young, large & on a ship, he didn't squish anyone. He didn't get his tail stepped on.

I wish my kids had been so well behaved. Offhand, my kids sent a sibling to the doctor for stiches (4? times), broken bones (3), burns (1) or alkaline battery fluid in the eyes(1). They were active kids, not angels. Only a couple of the incidents were done in anger. All the rest were just accidents. Like when Erin slammed the screen door & chopped the tail off the cat who was charging through at the time. Things happen, but not to this dragon.

I agree with your last point -- that hadn't occurred to me. Bonding is supposed to be a first impression reaction, but you're right: if the critter had been receiving impressions all along, why would it be so susceptible on hatching?

I suppose Temeraire's highly selective impression is supposed to be an inherent superiority, ignoring the lesser officers and going for the captain? All of the other descriptions seemed like the closest human to the hatchling would get the bond, unlike on shipboard.

What you're saying, Jim, is certainly my experience with dogs. I would really love to see an author try and think of the dragon's perception rather than just making them smart humans with wings, and Novik really didn't accomplish that.

I never quite believed the bonding between Laurence and Temeraire. Temeraire seems such a vastly superior being to Laurence (whom I never really liked) that I couldn't buy his love for his rider.

Moreover, the fact that Novik's dragons are aware of the world beyond their shell doesn't make accepting the bond any easier. If the dragon comes out of the shell with no knowledge of the world, I can see the dragon bonding with the first creature it sees out of the shell, in this case a rider, but when the dragon has fluent language (or two) that initial bond doesn't seem to carry as much weight.

Nice post Jim, I can see we have some similar experiences and some similar conclusions about living and working with non humans

I always appreciate it when fantasy writers don't make dragons too human-like in their thoughts & emotions. I grew up on a farm with dogs & horses as practically members of the family. They don't think like us. I can't imagine any dragon would think like us. Impression or socialization is something we do with any pet & even kids. All my kids were little animals, very much like puppies, until socialized. (Well, we did the best we could...)

With something large like a horse, you have to make sure they know you are above them in the herd with no questions. They bite & kick each other all the time playing & establishing dominance. Even their playful nips can ruin a human's day - I have a scar on my arm to prove it.

They're also prey animals who see differently than we do. They have a built in flight mode when startled. Most of our horses are about 1/2 ton which they can move with startling quickness. They need to know, deep down, that jumping into or on the human is worse than whatever other threat might be around. People who fail to establish this kind of dominance with their horses tend to get hurt.

Dogs are more like us. They're omnivores & see more like us. They naturally live in packs & they also need to know humans - all humans - are above them in the pack. They too will nip or push their packmates around playing & establishing dominance. If they're like ours, which live in the house, sleep in our beds & have names that get confused with the kids, then a few firm rules have to be established. Anything else is courting disaster. It's somewhat different if they're working or guard dogs.

Richard wrote: "BunWat wrote: ... "without it how in the world would one control a dragon? They could just fly off and drop ya from a great height. "

Well, the same way one controls a horse.

Are there any dr..."

There's a strange little novel by Dave Duncan called Shadow, set on an alien world where people can only live on mountaintops, and the only way to get around was by enslaving a species of intelligent avian that they could ride. Eventually they discovered how to get free and proceeded to 'drop their riders from a great height.' Not exactly, but dead is dead.

The only one I vaguely remember was more of a mutual partnership and it was in a Dennis Mckiernan book. It might have been The Dragonstone. Or it might have been Voyage of the Fox Rider. Basically, an elf was going to kill a dragon because the dragon had killed his love, but they came to a truce and actually became friends. The dragon allowed the elf to ride him.

That's the only one I can think off the top of my head that didn't involve bonding and didn't reduce the dragon to a beast of burden.

BunWat wrote: ... "without it how in the world would one control a dragon? They could just fly off and drop ya from a great height. "

Well, the same way one controls a horse.

Are there any dragon rider books in fantasyland that *don't* involve bonding and impression? I suspect if the dragons are sentient, then the author will go for bonding, and if they're just beasts then we'd get the equivalent of stirrups and an irritating bit in the mouth.

The Farseer Trilogy and Tawny Man trilogy by Robin Hobb have a lot of beast style bonding going on.
There is a theory about people wanting to experience "cathexis" where there are no barriers between them and the thing they love (this can be human or non-human). I got this from The Road Less Traveled: A New Psychology of Love, Traditional Values, and Spiritual Growth which is a psychology type book. Perhaps fantasy authors are tapping into a basic human desire? And that's why we all understand the stories and enjoy them...

Good topic! I think part of the logic behind there being some kind of process of impression or bonding is that without it how in the world would one control a dragon? They could just fly off and drop ya from a great height.

Valdemar Companions also bond with Heralds, but they are also the souls of dead Heralds (that's a spoiler by the way).

Anyway, yes, in Pern, it's called Impression (taken from what happens between a duck and her ducklings at birth and many other types of birds). While it is possible for a rider or a dragon to survive the death of the other, it often leaves the survivor psychologically scarred.

I didn't get the feeling that the bond between dragon and handler in HMD was quite as strong as the Pern bond, it was very compelling.

Note: this discussion is likely to include spoilers of some other fantasy series, such as Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials series, not just of His Majesty's Dragon. You have been warned.

In HMD, the dragons and their riders bond pretty intensely. Only one despised jerk doesn't share this, right?

In Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy the animals are actually the human's souls, but the bond can still be broken -- and is even more intense than with the dragons, of course, and that bond is central to the storyline.

It has been two dozen years since I read McCaffrey, but I recall that dragons and riders were bonded there, too, right? I think I remember that dragons would pine away and die if their rider died?

Now, while the Lone Ranger loved Silver, I don't think he or knights of yore were quite that involved with their mounts.

So where does this come from? What does it mean? And are there any other good reads that do the same?