I thought it might be interesting to discuss films that have been "lost" over time...or scenes from films that have been lost. What lost films do you wish to see the most? Are there lost films or scenes from films that have been recently found or restored? Are there films that aren't necessarily lost, but might as well be because they never received a proper Region 1 dvd release?

I, for one, would really like to see the 1930's British film They Drive By Night. I love Ernest Thesiger (who was the evil Doctor Praetorius in Bride of Frankenstein), and from what I've read, this is one of his best films. It also sounds rather spooky. I don't know of any home video release in any format however...and I've never seen it on TCM.

I'd also love to see Lon Chaney's London After Midnight, but that's probably never going to happen despite yearly rumors of it being found.

I recently saw the restored version of Judy Garland's "A Star is Born" on our local PBS station.
Apparently the original cut of the movie was too long. Theatre owners complained they could only show one feature per evening instead of two. Subsequently the film was butcherd to a much shorter version. Years later they attempted to restore the missing footage and songs. Unfortunately they found more audio segments than video segments, so there are several minutes where we hear dialogue but only see a "still" picture of Judy Garland or James Mason. Its still worth seeing.

Slightly off subject here.
But this talk of missing footage reminded me of something I read about "The Sound of Music"

Apparently when TSOM was first shown in the Phillipines; theatre owners thought Filipinos wouldnt care for the music, so they showed the movie WITHOUT any of the musical numbers. It must have been a very short movie.

How wierd, I've yet to find a Filipino who didn't care for music.

Along with being a very short movie, that would probably be also a very stark movie. I think the sense of danger and drama to the events, sans music, would be a little heavy...I would be very curious to see that cut of it!

There is something like an hour + of footage never released from the "Fire Walk With Me" Twin Peaks film (which is quite possibly the most unrelentingly dark film I've ever seen, Salo aside). There have been lots of online petitions to try and bring some of this to the public, and I am definitely in the would-like-to-see-it camp. Lynch just released a huge box set with lots of unreleased scenes from other movies, but this wasn't a part of it. Maybe next time?

Actually, I would have thought the music would have been the primary part of the film that they would have appreciated. Definitely would have been different. So, the Hills were Mute.

I wasn't aware we hadn't seen all of Fire Walk With Me. Count me in the would-like-to-see camp as well.

Rob wrote: "I thought it might be interesting to discuss films that have been "lost" over time...or scenes from films that have been lost. What lost films do you wish to see the most? Are there lost films or..."

I also wanted to see LONDON AFTER MIDNIGHT, however after seeing WHV's DVD recreation of the film using stills, I think it might be better if it stays lost.

My hunch is that, if it ever was found, it would be a disappointment.

It's not a lost film, but it would be nice if the Gershwin estate would finally allow the 1959 version of PORGY AND BESS to be released onto DVD.

Michael: I've heard much the same thing re: London After Midnight from other sources...but I still want to see it. There's no way it could live up to the hype it's generated now, but hey...it's still Lon Chaney!

I'd really like to see the original ending of Freaks...where you see the freaks falling on Cleopatra in the mud and you witness Hercules singing in soprano after the freaks have castrated him.

isn't there supposed to be some found footage of lang's metropolis? if the version i've been watching all these years isn't complete, i'd love to see what i've been missing.

i'm also in the "it would sure be nice to catch london after midnight" crew.

you guys have made me want to see freaks again.

On the very highly recommended King Kong (1933) special edition dvd, there's quite a bit of footage that was previously censored when it was first shown on tv...most of it involving Kong eating or trampling on natives. Pretty grotesque stuff for 1933.

Phillip wrote: "isn't there supposed to be some found footage of lang's metropolis? if the version i've been watching all these years isn't complete, i'd love to see what i've been missing."

Yes. It's more than just missing footage. It was one of the big film stories of 2008. They found the COMPLETE "Metropolis" in Argentina. It was reported that this was a copy of Lang's original cut that premiered and was subsequently shortened. Apparently it's intact except for damage to the end of one reel.

I'm eagerly awaiting reports that a full restoration has been completed and will be shown.

thanks for the info on metropolis, daniel, much appreciated!

i'm also eagerly awaiting the chance to see it. i can't believe i've been seeing an "incomplete" cut all these years.

I'm looking forward to the complete METROPOLIS being released, but I've got a feeling that it won't be as big a deal as we're all hoping. The complete print found was in 16mm, and based on the couple of photos released, it isn't in the best of shape. Has there been an announcement as to what condition this print is in?

the film has never felt "incomplete"....that's why i was kind of shocked when i heard it. also, lang was around a LONG time after that film was made (although transplanted in america). it seems like he would have stepped in at some point and set things right...i'll have to look into this for more details.

Here's the story on the discovery of the uncut "Metropolis":

http://www.film.com/movies/metropolis/st...

Apparently the original King Kong had to be cut down because some of the footage on the island was too shocking to the audience; especially a scene involving giant spiders devouring some the the crew members. Supposedly the audiences would'nt settle down enough to enjoy the rest of the picture

thanks for the link daniel!

yes,indeed.

Manuel reminded me of a couple horrible experiences with "lost" films.

A Star is Born--I saw that same version (the only version my local library had). Just ridiculous. Thank God for the skip forward button for DVD players.

After reading and loving McTeague, I tried to watch Greed. Again, it included the added stills (I recorded it off TCM). I couldn't make it through more than five minutes.

I think these versions are appropriate for film classes and big film buffs, but for the casual watcher trying to enjoy a film for the first time, they're pretty annoying.

Daniel M. wrote: "Here's the story on the discovery of the uncut "Metropolis":

http://www.film.com/movies/metropolis/st...
"

That was a very interesting link!

My son (17) and I just watched METROPOLIS Friday night. He had no interest what-so-ever in doing so. I talked him into trying 15 minutes of it. Only once did I offer to shut it off, and he declined. We both loved the movie. It was about two hours long, so I am not sure which version we ended up seeing.

Mawgojzeta wrote: "My son (17) and I just watched METROPOLIS Friday night. He had no interest what-so-ever in doing so. I talked him into trying 15 minutes of it. Only once did I offer to shut it off, and he declined. We both loved the movie. It was about two hours long, so I am not sure which version we ended up seeing. "

The fully restored version has yet to be released, but there have been a number of restorations that have included previously lost material that are in circulation. Sounds like you may have seen a fairly complete version, but the one being worked on now will trump everything else.

Daniel: I am excited to see what comes out next.

The ideas in the movie just blew me away. Was this movie terribly inventive and groundbreaking in content, or am I just not giving the 1920s enough credit?

It was a landmark film, even back then.

It's an oustanding movie on many counts. I just love it, never get tired of watching it. I'm glad your son was enthusiastic! I always love it when I can get a teenager to move outside the usual Hollywood or pseudo-indie realm and into some great films from earlier cinema (or foreign cinema). I'm doing an informal film "workshop" this summer with some of my students. We're going to watch a dozen films that exist way outside their usual fare. Wish me luck.

Daniel is right, it was a landmark film, but there are some other wonderful things that came out of the 1920's. Lang, Dreyer, Murnau and Pabst were pretty innovative and made great narratives. I'm forgetting Melies, which is a mistake...he was eternally finding new ways to use the medium of film to create illusions. But his subject matter isn't usually as mature as Lang.

My son is not the average movie viewer, having been raised on foreign films. Don't know if any of you have seen FROZEN ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0125279/ ) out of China. Good movie but even with my patience, it seemed like this movie went on forever and not the 99 minutes it actually took up. Well, the boy was about 11 at the time and was enthralled. When it was over he wanted to dissect the movie and research the "truth" of it online.

Reconcile that with his love of hard-core rap music, loathing of school, and his dream of being a skateboarding star!

The workshop sounds like fun. Which movies are you going to show them?

Melies' career as a filmmaker was over by the 1920s.

Love me some METROPOLIS, but it can be rather exhausting. And I can never forget H.G. Wells' comment that it was the silliest film he'd ever seen. All that stuff about the heart being the mediator never really works for me. And the fact that not a single one of the people in that little hidden chapel stops to wonder what on earth has gotten into the usually saintly and pure Maria has really become a sticking point for me.

Uh, Hello Phillip, EISENSTIEN??? At the very least excerpted- The Odessa Steps, scenes from OCTOBER 1917(incl. the horse falling of the drawbridge) etc.

Of course the sound years are pretty fly too, NEVSKEY and IVAN THE TERRIBLE PARTS I & II- I love that reverse weave where he inserts the color stock (captured from the Germans in WWII) to represent the flashback.

Of course, Eisenstein! (damn, am I on trial here?) I have several of his films in my collection, and two of his books on film theory. He had a profound influence on generations of filmmakers. The battle sequences in both Ivan and Alexander Nevsky are really nice... He was one of the first directors to really exploit the editing process. In fact, he was responsible for the montage technique.

There are some films up for discussion (as to what we will actually see), but these are the films up for discussion:

Rite of Passage films:
400 Blows
Pather Panjali

Noir
The Big Sleep
D.O.A.

Post-noir
Riffifi
Blue Velvet

German Expressionism
The Cabinet of Dr Caligari

Post-War Japan
Face of Another

Erotica, etc
Belle du Jour

Death, etc
The Seventh Seal

Collapse of the American Dream
The Ice Storm

Master of Suspense
Strangers on a Train

The Art of Horror
Nosferatu (Herzog)
The Texas Chainsaw Massacre

Colonialism, etc
Aguirre, the Wrath of God

Poetry of Russian Cinema
Stalker

War, etc
Come and See

Surrealism, etc
Exterminating Angel
Fellini Satyricon

There may be a few others that sneak into the mix, but that's the starting point.