Sorry, Nina. In Latin (and Indian English) it's the other way round, V is pronounced W, and there was no W as such in the Roman written alphabet. So Winnie as we no him would have been written as Vinni, but pronounced the same way.

John, would that mean that veni, vidi, vici is pronounced weni, widi, wici?

I had forgotten that about the Latin pronunciation of the V.

As I was taught, yes, but those who speak church latin seem to have adopted the Italian pronunciation with a v, as well as the Italian pronunciation of the c as ch. The fact is that Italians are not Romans. Although we have no handy recordings of Romans speaking, we know how they spoke by the way the Greeks wrote Latin and they used spelling that gave us the v as w and the c as a hard c, not ch. The German spelling and pronunciation of Caesar (Kaiser) also confirms the hard c and ae as a hard i.

John, thank you so much for explaining about those Latin pronunciations and their variations. I've often wondered about them.

I never realized that the word "Kaiser" came from the word Caeser, but now, from your explanation (of the c as a hard c and of "ae" as a hard i), I can see where the pronunciation comes from. I can't remember how we pronounced "Caesar" in our high school Latin class.

There you go, Joy. You learn something every day. I stick to what I was taught. I hated my Latin Master for many years – he used to use a ruler on our knuckles if we misbehaved! I appreciate him now. Now you must go out and teach the new learning! Ha hah.

John wrote: "There you go, Joy. You learn something every day. I stick to what I was taught. I hated my Latin Master for many years – he used to use a ruler on our knuckles if we misbehaved! I appreciate him no...
... Now you must go out and teach the new learning! Ha hah."

John, my piano teacher used to hit my fingers with her pencil when I played the wrong note. (lol) But at least I learned to play the piano. :)

"Mihi Cura Futuri" - "The care of the Future is mine."
-Motto of my alma mater, Hunter College, NYC - USA

The Harvey Grammar School, which I attended from 11 to 18 must be one of the few that doesn't have a Latin tag as a motto. The school was founded in 1674 by the family of the great English doctor, William Harvey, who 'discovered' the circulation of the blood. A much later famous son – another William Harvey – was Captain of the Fighting Temeraire, which fought at the battle of Trafalgar, alongside Nelson. The top scroll on his caot of arms – our school badge – read Temeraire, and the bottom 'Fougeux et Redoutable'. In the words of the school song: "Temeraire grappled Fougeux and Redoubtable, battered and conquered them ere close of day." In other words she took on two French ships of the line at Trafalgar and battered them into submission, before towing them back to England as prizes. No mean feat. The Fighting Temeraire was the subject of one of Turner's most famous paintings and is an English favourite – certainly mine.

That's interesting, John.
I googled for Turner's painting of Temeraire and found the following about it: ====>

" 'The Fighting Téméraire tugged to her last Berth to be broken up'
by J. M. W. Turner, 1838, oil on canvas ... Currently housed in the National Gallery."
LINKS:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Turner...
(great photo of the painting)
and
http://www.squidoo.com/The-Fighting-Teme...

John wrote: "The Harvey Grammar School, which I attended from 11 to 18 must be one of the few that doesn't have a Latin tag as a motto. The school was founded in 1674 by the family of the great English doctor, ..."

I don't know if this is still so, John, but when I was living in London years ago there was a gallery in the National where you could sit on a bench in the center and look on one wall at "The Fighting Temeraire" and "Rain Steam and Speed" (a kind of Turner apotheosis, I've always thought, reality at last dissolving almost completely into pure light and spray) and then by swivelling around on the bench see on the facing wall Constable's "The Haywain" and another major canvas of his, I can't remember which. There was something just extraordinary about those two utterly different visions staring each other down across the polished floor.

Joy H. (of Glens Falls) wrote: "That's interesting, John.
I googled for Turner's painting of Temeraire and found the following about it: ====>

" 'The Fighting Téméraire tugged to her last Berth to be broken up'
by J. M. W. Turn..."Did you know the murals painted by J. M. W. Turner surrounding the lunch room were painted by him so he had something to eat? It's a wonderful place to go for lunch..nina

Nina wrote: ""Did you know the murals painted by J. M. W. Turner surrounding the lunch room were painted by him so he had something to eat? It's a wonderful place to go for lunch.."

Which lunch room is that, Nina?

Margaret, I think it is still so, although I haven't been to the National myself for years.
Joy you got almost the full story of the Fighting Temeraire at squidoo. The only bit they missed is that Harvey 'overtook' Nelson in HMS Victory as they sailed into battle at Tracalgar, and had to be ordered back into line. If it hadn't been for Harvey, HMS Victory would have gone to the bottom very early in the fighting.

John wrote: "...Joy you got almost the full story of the Fighting Temeraire at squidoo. The only bit they missed is that..."

I found more info about Admiral Sir Eliab Harvey at the Battle of Trafalgar (1805) at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliab_Harve...

Wiki explains it well. I enjoyed reading the following excerpt:
=====================================================
When the Battle of Trafalgar was joined on the 21 October, Harvey's Temeraire was the second ship in Nelson's division and was a faster and more agile ship than HMS Victory, Nelson's flagship. As a result, Temeraire began to pull ahead of Victory as the division closed on the Franco-Spanish fleet and Harvey was consequently reprimanded by Nelson, who hailed Temeraire: "I will thank you Captain Harvey, to keep your proper station which is astern of the Victory".

During the combat that followed, Harvey was heavily engaged with the enemy, passing behind Bucentaure and astern of Redoutable. The broadside fired into Redoutable reduced the French ship to a wreck and forced its surrender soon afterwards when it became tangled with Victory and Temeraire. The three ships then drifted into the following French Fougueux, British fire disabling her and giving cover to a boarding party led by Harvey, which forced the surrender of Fougueux's crew. In later years Harvey would use this incident for his personal motto "Redoutable et Fougueux".

Once the fleet had returned to port, controversy erupted concerning Harvey's role in the battle. Although his bravery and skill were not questioned, his prominence in the dispatch sent home by Cuthbert Collingwood was. In the dispatch, Harvey was singled out over the other captains for his bravery, Collingwood writing: 'I have not words in which I can sufficiently express my admiration of it'. As a result of this special mention, Harvey was promoted to rear-admiral on 9 November 1805, and given the honour of being one of Nelson's pallbearers at the admiral's funeral despite their short acquaintance. Harvey's new motto and his perchant for 'bragging' further alienated him from his fellow officers."
===================================================

I never dreamed I'd become so interested in the Battle of Trafalgar. (lol)

Joy H. (of Glens Falls) wrote: "John wrote: "...Joy you got almost the full story of the Fighting Temeraire at squidoo. The only bit they missed is that..."

I found more info about Admiral Sir Eliab Harvey at the Battle of Traf..."
Clearly, someone didn't like our "Gallant old Harvey" (in the words of the school song,written long after the event.
Time to sign off on this one.