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Holy Bible: King James Version
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Kongsi Berita Buku > A Malay Bible (wrongly translated?)

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message 1: by Emily Iliani (last edited Feb 09, 2012 01:51AM) (new)

Emily Iliani (EmilyIliani) Dear Muslim Friends (not being condescending to assume that the majority members in Goodreads Malaysia are Muslims but to clarify anyway),

I have just come across this site http://alkitab.sabda.org/home.php. I find the website to be a real contempt and a great insult to me as a Muslim and a Malay living in Malaysia. I know the website is founded by Indonesian Kristen and perhaps, to be most permissible, has nothing to do with any Malaysian. Being however greatly influenced by my Malay upbringing, this site has shown that my own language is not mine to defend. This, I object to. I seek your indulgence to allow wisdom and make this be known among friends and family. I am scared that this will be a strike to our belief and esteem.

If it is not too troubling, please spread awareness of it. My reasonings for such request will follow suit in a bit.

To recall, I am sure most Malaysian Muslims still remember the debate a year or two ago pertaining to the adoption of 'Allah' to translate the noun God in the Malay Bible. However, after much ado about nothing, I was made to understand that the Govt allowed circulation of al-Kitab only in the East Malaysia. Vide: http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/ma...

Now, this is why the online Malay Bible brings much grievance to me.

Before anyone can comment on me being shallow and unrealistically orthodox of my religious beliefs, do know that I am a student of comparative religions studies, who graduated from an Islamic university and finished her reading of (translated) Quran Bible and yes, Torah at 10 years old. I am very open with the idea of plurality. That being said, I am an avid reader of FT because he makes sense when he said that plurality is misconstrued and stretched to the extent that people seem nonchalant about their obligations. Before people can argue to say “Allah” is the name of ancient pagan arab god, do also know that I read Evolution of God thrice and History of God twice.

Going to the crux, my unfeigned strong revilement of the Malay Bible is because:
1-the way the Bible was worded can and will lead to great confusion.
2-flowing from the same, why must it be named al-Kitab when in reality ‘Bible’ is and should be correctly translated as ‘Injil”
3-flowing from the above, why must the name Allah be used to portray God. Bible is from the Old Testament and YHWH would have been more preferable considering the historical timeline; YHMH was used to refer to ‘God’ before ‘Allah’ was.
4-the website itself is very misleading, the description of the founder was ambiguous. Why must you try to shadow the truth with verbosity?
5-How will this affect the society? If not at present then in the future. The definition of ‘Melayu’ is one who professes the religion of Islam, habitually speaks the Malay language, conforms to Malay custom (Federal Constitution Art 160). First, we are stripped of our customs – way of life, then language and religion too. Where does a Malay stand now?

I am not attacking any religious groups or any quarters; do as you please. I cannot be attacked if I do not let my defences down. I am asking you to keep up your guards too. That is all I am seeking.

It is not an issue, it cannot be an issue and why should we care?; we have lost everything but our fighting conscience. Are we prepared to lose that too?

Salam.


message 2: by Khairul H., I hate people but not you. You, I like. (last edited Feb 09, 2012 04:23PM) (new)

Khairul H. | 2357 comments Mod
2-flowing from the same, why must it be named al-Kitab when in reality ‘Bible’ is and should be correctly translated as ‘Injil”

Al-Kitab is correct because "bible" is taken from the Greek word "byblos" which means "book". Kitab is Arabic for book. Therefore, Al-Kitab = Bible is correct.

Bible is from the Old Testament

See above. Bible literally means book, it does not mean the Old or New Testament. Those two testaments together make up the Christian Bible.

As for the rest of your argument, yeah...it's probably targeted towards confused Muslims. Sure, they can argue that the Arabic Bible also uses the word Allah but you're not discussing about the Arabic Bible are you?

4-the website itself is very misleading, the description of the founder was ambiguous. Why must you try to shadow the truth with verbosity?

Welcome to the internet. You think this is the only one like it? There are hundreds if not more.

How will this affect the society? If not at present then in the future. The definition of ‘Melayu’ is one who professes the religion of Islam, habitually speaks the Malay language, conforms to Malay custom (Federal Constitution Art 160). First, we are stripped of our customs – way of life, then language and religion too. Where does a Malay stand now?

Erm...yeah. Personally I don't agree with this definition. I know it's not your definition. So if a Chinese speaks Malay better than any other language, behaves more Malay than a Malay and professes to be a Muslim that makes him a Malay? No, he's still Chinese and should be proud of it but our laws were written by people who felt threatened and insecure.

But that is not important right now.

You ask where a Malay stand right now because you see Islam being attacked. Well, why blame this or any website? The reason you are anxious is because you know that there will be Malays-Muslims and Indonesian-Muslims out there who will be convinced of this site. Is that the site's fault? NO! Mengapa kita marah kpd org yg buat kerja? Kita tak suka dgn kerja mereka tetapi mereka buat kerja, bukan? Kerja mereka berdakwah. Sepatutnya kita marah pada org yg tidak buat kerja, yakni kita sendiri.

Malays are Muslims in name only. In behaviour, not so much so it's no wonder many find it so easy to fall by the wayside. So let's step it up. Don't just say you're a Muslim, behave like a Muslim as well. Help your neighbour, help strangers, stop being a rascist, stop being suspicious of outsiders, act patiently, stop gossiping (for goodness sakes limit your time in Facebook and Twitter) and of course complete what is obligatory of us i.e. prayers, fasting and all that. Show everyone that you are a Muslim in name as well as actions.

Don't blame the founders of that website. They're just doing their jobs. Blame ourselves. If we know our aqidah is strong, believe me, you would not be worried about this site. The problem is today the Malay aqidah is low or non existent. And anyone who denies that is either a liar or a fool.


message 3: by Emily Iliani (new)

Emily Iliani (EmilyIliani) Khairul H. wrote: You ask where a Malay stand right now because you see Islam being attacked. Well, why blame this or any website? The reason you are anxious is because you know that there will be Malays-Muslims and Indonesian-Muslims out there who will be convinced of this site. Is that the site's fault? NO! Mengapa kita marah kpd org yg buat kerja? Kita tak suka dgn kerja mereka tetapi mereka buat kerja, bukan? Kerja mereka berdakwah. Sepatutnya kita marah pada org yg tidak buat kerja, yakni kita sendiri.

Exactly my point. I'm not attacking any quarters, I' be mad if anybody tries to stop me from spreading the truth of Islam. Like I said, my worry is not on myself or my family but the society as a whole. You know how troublesome our time is now. This is in time where we have ulama attacking ulama. Do we really believe that we can help the society without equipping it with awareness and knowledge? I may be in the safe zone and you and your family may be in the safe zone. What about those who are lost, finding their way and looking around?

I accept plurality in the sense that we should accept all for their beliefs, respect them and try to live in harmony but why must we blur the line?

How many of us are fortunate enough to be well-guided or at the very least well-read to understand the differences and the dangers in the differences?

Again, I understand your argument in re the name; kalau begitu bukan sewajarnya diterjemah sebagai "Buku". Kitab juga pinjaman bahasa Arab كتب. Kenapa perlu mengelirukan dengan pinjaman bahasa Arab yang seringkali dikaitkan dengan bahasa Islam (saya tak menyokong pendirian ini tapi dalam perbincangan ini, permikiran sosiologi sekarang ada wajarnya). Kenapa tidak gunakan bahasa Aramaic (bahasa yang digunakan oleh Jesus - yes I believe in Mel Gibson)?

The founder is dubious, not his fault. True. Why however need they play it such? Be frank, just because I want to gain support and convert Christians, doesnt mean it is right for me to change the Quran to be more familiar with the Bible.

I am mad at my own society in failing to protect our own identity but what more can I do than this?

p/s: yes i do know the difference between the new and old testament or between the talmud and the tanakh. How many of us can say that without fumbling? How many of us can say for certain this verse is from Quran and not Bible? this is the main worry.


message 4: by John (new)

John S. | 1 comments With reference to the current topic of 'Allah' I believe the problem lies with the understanding of the 'confused' people of this matter. These people don't understand that God is God and cannot be given a name! I believe Islam also teaches that! Once He is given a name, we have reduced the infinite to finite! They don't realise that 'Allah' is not a personal name of God but a generic name for the Supreme Being who has no personal name!


message 5: by Tomoko (new)

Tomoko (mskawada) | 8 comments Religion is not static. The dogma of Christianity is to spread to good word, the usage of language that seems too close to home makes sense. I don't believe an iota that it is intentionally malicious. They're in the business to communicate, thus using localized term is the easiest and efficient path.

As for believers who stray... Majority of those whom are born with it and living in such societies tend to not fikir terlalu mendalam with regards to their religion (regardless of). Most hold their birthright beliefs rather callously.
You're right to worry about these blurred lines. Depending on pov, compromise has its price.


message 6: by Hifzan (new)

Hifzan | 6 comments Dalam kes ini, umat Islam tidak perlu risau kerana Allah pernah berjanji bahawa Quran tidak akan diseleweng sehingga hari kiamat. Nak kata Christian tidak boleh pakai name "Allah", dalam Quran pun suruh orang Kristian pakai guna nama "Allah".

Kalau di Eropah, orang Kristian memang anti- nama Allah. Kalau kita faham agama Kristian, mereka memang tiada sistem seperti "Usul- Tauhid", "Usul-Fiqh" dan sebagainya. Cara mereka menterjemah atau memahami konteks Bible adalah berdasarkan kepada ahli agama mereka. Kalau ahli agama atau ahli gereja mereka kata A- mereka pun kata A. Kalau mereka kata B, mereka pun kata B, walaupun ia bercanggah dengan Bible. Kalau orang yang dengar tidak setuju, mereka hanya pindah ke gereja lain. Jadi, isu ini tidak perlu dihairankan sangat.

Oleh kerana mereka tiada sistem yang jelas maka tidak perlu dirisaukan macam mana mereka menterjemah atau mentafsirkan ayat-ayat mereka. Orang puteh kata "hopeless".

Pernah ditanyakan kepada seorang ahli Bible Amerika (Evangelist), "Macam mana nak baca Bible"? Dia jawab "Tiada sistem yang jelas, baca macam mana pun boleh". Kalau kita dengar cara mereka bercakap, memang kita geram, seperti mereka tidak hormat buku/kitab mereka sendiri. Tapi, itulah Kristian. Kita mempunyai pemahaman bahawa pembacaan Quran haruslah tartil, berhati-hati, memahami dengan jelas. Mereka tidak berpendapat sedemikian rupa.

Sistem budaya agama di Malaysia ini, kita tidak berdakwah kepada orang bukan Islam. Sifat orang melayu tidak akan buka mulut bercakap tentang Islam. Se akan-akan bercakap tentang agama adalah taboo. Diam dalam isu ini adakah disebabkan sikap toleransi, atau "kedekut ilmu agama" atau berasa melayu itu paling unggul atau mungkin kebodohan oran melayu sendiri. Tidak lah diketahui..

Oleh kerana budaya "diam" ini telah dipecahkan oleh Kristian. Sepatutnya kita mengambil kesempatan ini bercerita tentang agama kita kepada mereka. Buka diskusi perbandingan agama secara dinamik dan ilmiah, bahaskan isu-isu Bible dan berucaplah secara lemah-lembut.

Kalau yang sudah baca Bible, banyak isu-isu yang boleh dibawa berbincang dan difahami bersama. Saya berasa pihak Kristian akan panas punggung untuk menjawab segala soalan yang akan ditujukan kepada mereka.

Kalau kita faham cara kita menyoal ulama-ulama kita, dan guna kaedah sama kepada ahli agama Kristian. Mereka menang susah nak jawab atau tidak mungkin dapat jawab.

Kalau di Eropah, umah Islam pun boleh menang berdebat dengan Kristian. Inikan pula di tanah yang penuh dengan ulama-ulama Islam. Jadi, ketakutkan kita tidak lah berasaskan kepada dalil tapi cuma lebih kepada emosi.

Kita orang Malaysia adalah antara umat Islam yang dipandang tinggi dimata umat Islam lain, walaupun kita tidak merasa begitu. Gunakan lah peluang yang ada untuk menunjukan kebijaksaan kita, keterbukaan kita dalam mengkritik agama lain.

Pendapat saya, kalau kita buka sahaja perdebatan agama di Malaysia. Negara-negara lain akan turut serta, agama kita bukanlah berdasar agak-agak, tapi brdasarkan dalil yang kukuh.

Kalau pernah baca Bible, kita tidak perlu takut dengan dogma atau doctrine Kristian. Kalau kita kenal orang Kristian, mereka memang tidak pernah atau amat jarang membaca Bible. Jadi, tidak perlu rungsing.

Ada orang kata "Bible" di hotel-hotel untuk menukar agama umat lain. Cuba tengok Bible yang ada di hotel-hotel, macam tidak pernah di buka.

Saya pun ada 2 jenis Bible di rumah, King James Version dan New International Version.


message 7: by Syafrizal (new)

Syafrizal Abu Mansor (syafrizalabumansor) | 36 comments Saya setuju dengan saudara Hifzan. Melayu terlalu racist untuk dakwah pada bangsa lain. Sebab itu Islam payah nak berkembang pada bangsa lain di Malaysia. Hanya berlegar pada bangsa Melayu itu sendiri sahaja.


message 8: by Hifzan (last edited Nov 21, 2013 05:49AM) (new)

Hifzan | 6 comments Syafrizal wrote: "Saya setuju dengan saudara Hifzan. Melayu terlalu racist untuk dakwah pada bangsa lain. Sebab itu Islam payah nak berkembang pada bangsa lain di Malaysia. Hanya berlegar pada bangsa Melayu itu send..."

Sebenarnya semua manusia memang biased terhadap bangsanya sendiri. Itu memang fitrah.

Kalau dibandingkan dengan negara lain, tahap biased kamu di Malaysia antara terbaik. Mungkin ada sebahagian perlu diperbaiki dan diperelok. Tidak mungkin dapat perfect, tapi menghampiri terbaik. Kalau compare dengan India, atau Australia. Kita lagi bagus lah.


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