And how wonderful when they all converge!

Ahh the all important difference between science, policy, and personal entertainment.

Although, blindfolds are quite fun in other settings...

Agreed! Then we're just wandering around in circles with blindfolds on. Stupid stupid stupid.

But when policy is not only not informed by the data, but actually SHUNS it, that's just not OK.

Well I do think there are some important differences between science and policy and it all just works better if those differences are respected. I mean science is about figuring out what is and how things work but policy making is important too, because people have to make decisions about what direction they want to go in as a group, as a community, and science can't always answer those questions because some of them aren't scientific questions. To use an analogy, science and engineering can give us great sattellite image based maps and GPS locators to help us not get lost but it can't actually decide for us where it is we want to go.

The article did say that these issues have been brought to Obama and his team is "on top of it", whatever that may mean. I surely hope that the new Administration has a top priority to reverse some of these backwoods moral agenda policies, but who knows how long it may take to do so.

What would happen if we actually let the scientists, etc do their jobs and ran with the discoveries that may help the world & human race? Can you imagine the leaps & bounds we might have if politics & money weren't such a strangling influence? I'd like to see that world.

Was this the thread where I posted that editorial by the doctor calling for Obama to reverse all of Bush's anti-science stuff? I think I remember something he said in there about how it was one thing to make policy (global gag-rule) in spite of evidence. Bush was very clear that the global gag-rule was about his moral agenda. But it's another thing entirely to purposefully subvert the scientific endeavor to support your moral agenda. And this last-minute shit he's doing, some of it can't be undone right away, right? (Sorry, I didn't read the article. I can't bear to.)

I find it really upsetting that the Bush Administration seems to put loyalty so far ahead of other considerations, like ability or knowledge. Especially in regard to science it upsets me. Its one thing to look at the data and then disagree about what policy to pursue in response. Its quite another to be willing to mess with the data to create more support for your policy. Don't confuse me with facts I've already made up my mind is NOT a good way to run things. No matter how hard you try to sweep that pesky data under the rug, reality is still going to be what it is - changing the numbers doesn't change what is actually happening.

I thought this was a telling article about just some of the changes that are happening at the end of the Bush Administration. This is just the tip of the iceberg of the red tape & blockages that have been ocurring in the scientific community that seem to be an attempt to inflict stalling tactics on efforts to further alternative fuel, environmental & other 'green' scientific advances.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

Unfortunately, Arminius, the evidence provided directly controverts your assertion. Whatever Newt Gingrich did in the 90s, they did not implement fully in the 2000s. The information in the links provided showed that appropriations were requested but not granted.

Yes, it's tragic what happened to Senator Rhoades. However, he felt it was underfunded, as the information from his website I provided demonstrates.

Funding was given to support NCLB. NCLB was a federal mandate and Republicans under Speaker Gingrich in the 1990's made it a requirement that federal programs be funded with federal dollars.

On a side note: Senator Rhoades was my state Senator and I discussed this with him a few years ago. He unfortunately was killed just two weeks again in a horrible accident.

That is it precisely. Doesn't much matter what the faults or virtues of NCLB are if the thing isn't adequately funded. I could sponsor a bill to give us all vacations in Bermuda and then say see, I'm working for you all. But if there's no actual money for the vacations, the fact that I got the bill passed means little.

http://www.senatorrhoades.com/PDF/Ed%20U...

http://www.newamerica.net/programs/educa...

One more: http://www.school-of-thought.net/?cat=14...

Very worthwhile reading.

I live in the State of Florida, and no public school is funded by a combo of state, local and federal funds. (Generally, federal funds are doled out to the states, to give to the schools. Problem is, states aren't getting much and don't have the revenue to make up the federal shortfall.)

There have been extensive articles on the problem.

http://www.fsba.org/index.asp

http://www.flsenate.gov/data/session/200...

http://www.schoolfunding.info/federal/NC...

"NCLB is a powerful national statement that the achievement gap is a national concern and must receive national attention. However, serious questions have been raised as to whether the methods prescribed by NCLB measure student achievement and school quality accurately and address deficiencies sufficiently. Programs previously proven to raise student achievement, such as high quality preschool and equal distribution of high quality teaching, are not in the law, while unproven transfer provisions are prominent. Moreover, the law has been funded at a level not related to the true cost of achieving state educational standards. There is a concern that if students are required to attain standards without being provided the basic resources needed to learn, we will be leaving millions of children behind, thereby undermining the laudable goals of NLCB."

Drop everything and read, pizza hut coupons for free pizza judged by the amount of books you read, detailed geography and social studies, studying animal body parts, newspaper producing and much more in my daughters fourth grade.

Um, I hope you're not attributing THAT to Bush. 'Cause we were doing all that when I was in elementary school in the early 90s.

Xyea,

I do not know what state you live in but school taxes in my state are funded by the state and local taxes not federal.

Drop everything and read, pizza hut coupons for free pizza judged by the amount of books you read, detailed geography and social studies, studying animal body parts, newspaper producing and much more in my daughters fourth grade.

Iraq children bring food to American soldiers. There are some who hate us but there are more that like us and it is improving by the day.

I was pretty confused hearing Arminius speak well of NCLB, because he's absolutely the first person I've ever heard who has! I know many teachers who think it's terrible - my stepmom is one. She left the field because of the increasing emphasis of standardized testing over curriculum. NCLB only made that trend worse.

BBC is my main source of news, followed by American news sources of a variety. I also prefer BBC America news in the morning on TV to any other news out there. But I'm not big fans of Matt Frei or Katty Kay, so sometimes the evening news gets muted in favor of just reading the ticker at the bottom of the screen. :P

And I should mention that my community just passed a 1 mil property tax increase because schools under NCLB were drastically underfunded by the current administration. So, that lovely tax break Bush gave us is now coming out of our pockets at the local level instead of the federal level. Some tax break, huh?

The testing is proving nothing for these kids. My daughter's curriculum stops to focus on the FCAT for 12 weeks of the year. Half the year, they are simply focusing on FCAT testing and she is learning nothing new, curriculum-wise. So, I end up supplementing her schooling at home, but suggesting books she can read, etc. I've compared her curriculum with non-NCLB schools and they are learning more because they do not have to deal with standardized testing.

My daughter is a gifted student, but they had to cut back the number of ESE teachers this year due to lack of funding at the federal level. Now that have one teacher for the entire school. One. That's what Bush's mandates-without-funding have achieved. It's shameful.

Furthermore, the Iraqi people do not feel goodwill towards us Arminius. That's propaganda. They just voted to ask us to leave. It was on the nightly news. They want us gone.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/11/20/with...

http://www.boston.com/news/world/middlee...

But hey, what's another Constitutional violation for this crew? ;)

You're probably right. And if he beat them up here, he'd be less likely to get caught on a security camera.

Jim Lehrer can beat up any of those BBC wimps and he's 114 years old.

Re: the BBC...I wonder if the fact that they are allowed to yell and fight with each other in Parliament is related. I’m probably romanticizing it, but it seems like they can speak what’s on their mind more freely in both of these situations. But the grass is always greener, right?

The Iraq war will make us safer. The Iraqi people are starting to realize that America is not the bad guy. Goodwill is occurring. This most likely will spread to other countries and terrorism will cease.

George W. Bush enacted "No Child Left Behind" and I wish I had the kind of education that my children are getting.

I trust the BBC for almost everything, Irish news (particularly anything dealing with Northern Ireland) being a notable exception... Blind spot, and all...

I find it very odd that the BBC is so very much better than our network news when the BBC is a government financed organization. Somehow they've navigated the relationship between the press and the government in ways that are very different than ours but seem to work.

Although in fairness I did read a similar article a few days ago on msnbc.

I absolutly agree that it's sad that we have to go to the BBC to get really important news! But I do love to read BBC!!

Right -- just because someone reports on "scandal" doesn't mean it's not a scandal that should be reported on. My only complaint is that it isn't done more often.

How's that for articulate? I think I need more coffee.

He reformed public school and I have seen how much more my children learned than what I have learned at the same age.

You usually make very logical arguments, Arminius, so that one kinda surprised me. Surely you recognize that G.W. Bush had nothing to do with the difference in your education (assuming it is at least twenty years earlier than your children's) and that of your children.

Also:

He went to war. This has kept America safe for almost eight years now. Why? Because a good offense is the best defense. Iraq is much friendlier towards us. I was there.

Going to war in Afghanistan could be totally justified as keeping us safer since the people who attacked us were based out of there. But IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SEPTEMBER 11TH ATTACKS. Nor was Iraq any kind of threat to us, so their being "more friendly" to us isn't an issue. Going to war in Iraq pulled resources that could've been better spent in Afghanistan. Al-Qaeda (sp?) attacked us. Before we took over Iraq there was no Al-Qaeda there. Now there is? How is that safer? That's not a very good argument either.

I do not agree however that what Woodward and Bernstein did was scandal mongering. That was the press doing its job as a watchdog.

I think Armenius has a good point about our perception having changed largely because the media reports on scandal, although their relationship with political figures is strange. There is the outward appearance of asking the tough questions and getting the dirt, but they always manage to barely scrape the surface, and in the end we have a general distrust of authority but it is rarely evident in our actions. I’m only saddened that people aren’t more outraged than they are. We seem to have a really short memory (what happened to the 80-some percent of Americans who opposed the $700 billion bailout? Why aren’t they rioting in the streets? Why did they vote to reelect the people who blatantly ignored the will of the people?). And why is it that we have to go to BBC to find the important article that was the inspiration for this conversation? Grrr…

OOh that does look good.

That one looks great...it's on my wish list now! Thanks for the recomendation.

Oh man Kristi, from the look of Iron Silk you'd love "Foreign Babes in Beijing"!

*Presumptuously links to own review*: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/27234...

I'm on a China Jag...Iron & silk, The Laughing Sutra, and Snow Flower and the Secret fan. They are all great books, and now I'm hooked on China books.

Anyways...now back to the topic...

A recession is 2 or more quarters in a row where the economy shrinks. They do generally happen, as the economy is never going to go up and up and up (or at least stay still) forever, but the one we're in now is particularly worrisome.

None taken.
Ancient China huh? That sounds interesting.

Sorry...I've been reading about ancient china...reign was the first word that popped into my brain. No offense meant.

Adminstration, not reign please.

so what everyone's saying is the not only was there 1 recession...but 2 under Bush's reign???

Am I supposed to commend Bush for his manegerial style?? If he were the Pres of the company I work for I'm pretty sure he would be fired by now.

Well, it's a different recession. But I can't really join Arminius's analysis of Bush's accomplishments.

"He enacted a Stimulus package and tax cuts which pulled us out of the recession due to the dot com bust."

Am I on crack or aren't we still in a recession?

That is a good example Abigail. Another one would be the myth that before Columbus people believed the earth was flat, which is also a nineteenth century literary creation. Or in ref to Washington, who was it said if he slept in all the places that have a plaque on their wall he must never have spent a night at home?

Excellent case in point, which demonstrates that this sort of thing predates our modern mass-media: Nineteenth-century America was a little obsessed with hero-worshiping George Washington, rather than in really investigating his life. A number of myths about him (including the cherry-tree, "I cannot tell a lie" incident), date from this period, from a "biography" put out by Parson Weems... A fascinating book to read, if you're interested in the ways in which history is "constructed," and an excellent example of image-building...

Well yes of course its based on image and perception, all popular opinions of Presidents are based on image and perception. Few Presidencies are so simple and straightforward that they can be summed up in a few lines, every popular perception is some kind of caricature. That's how it works. Just as the notion of "the masses," is a caricature of popular perception. Not a criticism just an example. We talk to one another in shorthand all the time, because we don't often have the time or interest to talk to one another in longhand.

Edit: No prob, Armenius.

Got it Bunny, sorry.

BunWat, in other words, it's based on image/perception rather than on Nixon's actual accomplishments as president. Perhaps he deserves it, but to me it is unfortunate that the masses are driven by imagery (as LeBon observed some 100 years ago) rather than reason.

Armenius I did not say that Nixon was more corrupt than his predecessors. He was more corrupt than some and less corrupt than others. That was not my point. Nor was my point about the media although um, may have to come back to that. My point was that before Nixon the general public were more trusting. Offering some historical perspective about the atmosphere in which the revelations about Nixon took place. Which is a very different atmosphere than the one in which we now live.

Which are you speaking of, Arminius? Bush or Nixon?

I'm not sure that I understand your counter-argument, Arminius. Surely it's a good thing that we be informed if our public servants are betraying our trust?

He was not any more corrupt than most of his predecessors It was just that we developed a media that learned that scandal sells and went after stuff they previously would not have.