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COFFEE, TEA AND CONVERSATION > THE HISTORY OF WHERE YOU LIVE




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message 265: by Gregory (new)

Gregory Flemming (greg_flemming) | 26 comments Dave wrote: "I've been stationed in Fort Knox, Ky, for the past year in a half - both the post and the nearby towns are thick with historical significance.

Military units at Knox have played a role in every m..."

Fascinating to have so much history near where you live and work. Thanks for the post!


message 264: by Dave (new)

Dave Allen (DaveAlle) | 10 comments I've been stationed in Fort Knox, Ky, for the past year in a half - both the post and the nearby towns are thick with historical significance.

Military units at Knox have played a role in every major American conflict from WWI forward. In addition to the Gold Depository, it's also home to the General Patton Museum of Leadership. Patton left his personal belongings to Knox, which houses them in the museum.

The post also has 121 cemeteries, obtained when Knox purchased the land to construct the post. It still maintains the cemeteries, and opened them up to the public once a year, on Memorial Day. The cemeteries give Knox a connection to the Lincoln and Boone families.

One cemetery was on the former site of the Old Mill Creek Baptist Church, which several Lincoln family members attended; the President's grandmother, Bathsheba Lincoln, is buried there, as are other members.

Knox also has Boone Cemetery, on the family plot of Enoch Morgan Boone, Daniel's nephew. Several members of Boone's extended family still rest there.

This entire area is Lincoln Central - he was born nearby, and are countless markers signifying his local travels. His father's farm, where Lincoln spent part of his childhood, also partially rests on Knox property, although I haven't been able to pinpoint it yet.

I read biographies on Patton, Lincoln and Boone years before coming here (and enthusiastically recommend them all), so I'm like a kid in a candy store. I'm finding something new every time I walk out my door.

A Genius for War: V. 2: A Life of General George S. Patton Carlo D'Este

Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham LincolnDoris Kearns Goodwin

Boone: A BiographyRobert Morgan


message 263: by Bryan, Honorary Contributor - EMERITUS (new)

Bryan Craig | 11648 comments Mod
Cool, Linda, you should take it to your local historical society to get some background on it if you can.


message 262: by Linda B.D. (new)

Linda B.D. (LindaBD) Bentley wrote: "That is astounding Linda. Your daughter must have been thrilled with her find."

Oh yes! We found other things, but we don't know what they are! We will detect again this week-end.


message 261: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 31962 comments Mod
That is astounding Linda. Your daughter must have been thrilled with her find.


message 260: by Linda B.D. (new)

Linda B.D. (LindaBD) Last week my daughter & I took her metal detector down the road from my house. We instantly found a civil War medallion. It almost looked like a flower. It was part of a saddle. It had to be an important person to have a saddle like that- a general? No private would be able to afford such a luxury. We were lucky to find that & a couple of other things that quickly.


message 259: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 31962 comments Mod
Interesting Kathy. Edwin T. Woodward (March 8, 1843 – February 22, 1894), was a naval officer during and after the American Civil War and he was from Castleton. Might be the connection.

Here is an interesting trivia article:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/r...

Here is another chamber of congress claiming ownership:

http://www.whitehall-chamber.org


message 258: by Kathy (new)

Kathy Hale (kahale) | 11 comments I was just up in Vermont and saw a sign that the U.S. Navy was born near Castleton. Seemed like an odd place for that to happen.


message 257: by Mansoor (new)

Mansoor Azam (azam69) | 23 comments Linda fascinating place and description .. thanks a lot for sharing


message 256: by Linda B.D. (new)

Linda B.D. (LindaBD) John wrote: "Linda, That would be a great place to live. I love the outdoors and that type of history. Growing up we lived by a small family cemetary just down the road (in S.E. Kansas)that had graves going b..."
Thank you. I cannot make out any names, just some of the dates. The slaves only had wooden headstones-long gone.


message 255: by John (last edited Jan 08, 2014 10:41AM) (new)

John | 21 comments Linda, That would be a great place to live. I love the outdoors and that type of history. Growing up we lived by a small family cemetary just down the road (in S.E. Kansas)that had graves going back to the 1840's. Another nieghbor has a graveyard on a hill that is so old, you can't read any of the stones.


message 254: by Bryan, Honorary Contributor - EMERITUS (new)

Bryan Craig | 11648 comments Mod
Thanks, Linda, very interesting and rich history.


message 253: by Linda B.D. (new)

Linda B.D. (LindaBD) I live in middle Tennessee. My farm is 1/2 mile from the Duck River. My farm land was a part of a very large plantation, 1832-?. Many head stones are still here dating to 1832. I recently learned my entire back pasture is a large black slave cemetery! There are tons of caves that the Confederates stayed. Also, a large battle was fought on my land. Tons of things are found with metal detectors here. It is a beautiful road with trees over hanging/over lapping each other. I can ride my horse down old logging roads deep in the woods. Well, I did until a large black panther took up residence here just lately! He almost killed my little donkeys several times! Now, I have to carry a rifle for protection when I ride. (Already had many close calls with this huge cat). It's still a beautiful place with a lot of history.


message 252: by Victoria (last edited Jan 03, 2014 08:35AM) (new)

Victoria (Vicki_c) I live near Annapolis, Maryland and recommend this book. I own it and have read parts, but not all of it.

Annapolis, City on the Severn A History by Jane W. McWilliams by Jane W. McWilliams (no photo)


message 251: by Bryan, Honorary Contributor - EMERITUS (new)

Bryan Craig | 11648 comments Mod
I was in Pennsylvania when that '78 blizzard hit, crazy amount of snow.

Debbie, it must be amazing to live near a 500 year old church. If those walls could talk.


message 250: by Doreen (new)

Doreen Petersen Mark wrote: "Gregory wrote: "All of us in the Boston area are now in the midst of the first major blizzard of the season. A nor'easter like this always reminds me of the amazing story about a tanker that flound..."

I remember that storm Mark! Was my last yr of high school and I think I went to school maybe 4 days the whole month of Feb. At the time I lived in Malden and we had an Army jeep parked at the end of our street making sure no one was driving. I don't think anyone who lived through that storm will ever forget it!


message 249: by [deleted user] (last edited Jan 03, 2014 03:46AM) (new)

I'm currently living in a village in the UK. Originally from the States, it's refreshing to experience the history of this country. I've become particularly interested in the history of the churches in the small villages here. For example, our little village has a 500-year-old church, in which at least one relatively well-known hymn writer was a pastor a couple hundred years ago. (At least I'm familiar with a couple of his hymns.) Its cemetary has graves dating back several hundred years. In fact, there are a couple of Saxon graves, which some claim may be from the 900's AD.


message 248: by Mark (last edited Jan 02, 2014 03:05PM) (new)

Mark Mortensen Gregory wrote: "All of us in the Boston area are now in the midst of the first major blizzard of the season. A nor'easter like this always reminds me of the amazing story about a tanker that floundered on the shoals off the New England coast during the Blizzard of '78..."

I was working in downtown Boston and when the Blizzard of 78’ began I bailed and caught the last train out of North Station to Concord and then drove to Carlisle. My divisional manager, who thought he would set a great example for all stayed until 5 PM and was later stranded in his car for two days on Route 3 bound for the south shore.

I miss a good snowfall in the right environment. :-)


message 247: by Gregory (new)

Gregory Flemming (greg_flemming) | 26 comments All of us in the Boston area are now in the midst of the first major blizzard of the season. A nor'easter like this always reminds me of the amazing story about a tanker that floundered on the shoals off the New England coast during the Blizzard of '78 and the Coast Guard's incredible rescue effort. A tense, but great, read, assuming you are inside by a warm fire.

Ten Hours Until Dawn The True Story of Heroism and Tragedy Aboard the Can Do by Michael J. Tougias by Michael J. Tougias (no photo).


message 246: by Bryan, Honorary Contributor - EMERITUS (new)

Bryan Craig | 11648 comments Mod
Thanks Doreen. I hope to visit one day


message 245: by Doreen (new)

Doreen Petersen I was born in Chelsea, MA and currently live in Dorchester, MA, which is a part of Boston. I love Boston and it's rich history. It amazes me how people born and living here never seem to take advantage of all the historical significance this city has. My favorite spot is the Paul Revere Mall with his statue just across the street from the Old North Church. It's so beautiful and peaceful there. And then of course there's my very favorite spot, Fenway Park, because I love my Red Sox!


message 244: by Claire (new)

Claire (claire_gebben) Thanks, I didn't realize there would be more than one!


message 243: by Bryan, Honorary Contributor - EMERITUS (new)

Bryan Craig | 11648 comments Mod
Nice, Claire. I grew in the Cleveland area, as well. It is steep in history.

Good try on the citations. Be sure to use a edition with a bookcover and don't forget the author photo:

The Living by Annie Dillard by Annie DillardAnnie Dillard


message 242: by Claire (last edited Nov 08, 2013 08:08AM) (new)

Claire (claire_gebben) I grew up in Cleveland, then lived in Grand Rapids, Ann Arbor, and Buffalo before moving to Seattle. In Seattle, I'm the archivist of a 160-year-old church, so I'm getting pretty steeped in it. A couple of books I'm reading right now about Seattle history:
City of Ash by Megan Chance Megan Chance
was a page-turner romance with historically accurate details about the 1889 fire (interesting, how Chance builds off Shakespeare's "the play's the thing" theme.)

The Living by Annie Dillard Annie Dillard
which reads (I'm a hundred pages in) not just like history, but like a resurrection of Pacific Northwesterners. She's amazing with language, and has clearly done her research.


message 241: by Craig (new)

Craig (Twinstuff) I worked five years in the Astrodome and have many fond memories of the structure. Having said that, the group that was organizing this bond issue and trusted with creating concepts for finding a future use for it has not been well-run. It's been incredibly expensive to maintain these last dozen years and the building hasn't been used for years (pretty much since it was used for Hurricane Katrina evacuated folks back in 2005.) While I'd love to see the building continue to stand, I fully understand why this bond vote failed.

I would have voted for it personally, but I don't reside in Harris County so I wasn't eligible to vote.


message 240: by Carly (new)

Carly (carmeer) | 139 comments Houston TX,

It looks like the final nail in the Astrodome's coffin has been nailed.

Harris County voters voted against a 217 million dollar bond issue to turn the Astrodome into a multi-purpose venue. So now it will probably will be demolished. Supporters of keeping the Dome say will try to find another way to raise money, but it does not look good.


message 239: by Bryan, Honorary Contributor - EMERITUS (new)

Bryan Craig | 11648 comments Mod
Great post, Richard, thank you. I remember reading about Garfield being there and building a track, but nothing about the ties.

It is a shame some of the old structures are gone; it is a familiar tale throughout the U.S.

I have a friend who was the director of the public library at Long Branch for awhile.


message 238: by [deleted user] (new)

I live in the town next to Long Branch, NJ. In the late 1800s and up to the depression there were massive hotels on the entire Long Branch beach front. Long Branch was the legal gambling capital of the country until Prohibition when it was banned along with alcohol.

Celebrities that visited these hotels were Mary Pickford, Douglas Fairbanks, James Cagney, Diamond Jim Brady and Lillian Russell. I have seen an 1899 picture of Diamond Jim and Lillian Russell sitting in one of Diamond Jim’s electric cars parked in front of one of the luxury hotels. Imagine that, electric cars a hundred years ago and today’s car manufacturers talk about them as if they were the latest invention.

Then there was the picture of Buffalo Bill and Annie Oakley when they visited Long Branch and put on a shooting match with Phil Daly, Jr. who was supposed to be America’s greatest marksman. Annie soundly defeated him.

President Grant was given a house to live in when he visited Long Branch. It is still standing today. It is part of the Stella Maris retreat house for nuns. The building has been expanded but you cans still visualize the original house.

Every president from Grant to Wilson visited Long Branch. The St. James Chapel, the church where they worshiped, is still standing and is being restored by the Long Branch Historical Society. President Garfield was taken to the Elberon section of Long Branch after he was shot. He stayed at the Franklyn Cottage. The house is gone and the property was divided up into small summer houses but there is a monument on the site.

One interesting fact about Garfield is that a railroad track was laid from the Elberon train station to the Franklyn Cottage so he would not be jostled by a carriage ride. When the track was torn up, someone bought the ties and made a tea house for his wife for them. The tea house bounced around for many years to numerous owners and was eventually acquired by the Long Branch Historical Society and is now on the site of the St. James Chapel

The business men that visited the hotels were J.P. Morgan, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, George Pullman, Anthony Drexel and Meyer Guggenheim. The Guggenheim mansion still stands and is now the library of Monmouth University. The university restored the façade and much of the inside to the way it looked in 1905.

There is a famous painting by Winslow Homer called “On the Dunes in Long Branch.” He painted it in the 1870s and it shows a woman carrying a parasol standing on top of the dunes and looking down a long stairway to the beach. The painting is in a museum in Boston.

Well that’s enough babbling for now.

Richard Brawer


message 237: by Helio (new)

Helio | 5 comments I live, since I was born, in São Paulo the largest city in southern Hemisphere - 7th of the world.


message 236: by Kathy (last edited Oct 11, 2013 01:17PM) (new)

Kathy Hale (kahale) | 11 comments I currently live in south central Pennsylvania. One of the books about my town is
Flames across the Susquehanna by Glenn S. Banner Glenn S. Banner https://www.goodreads.com/author/show...

The events surrounding the burning of the bridge between Columbia and Wrightsville, Pennsylvania to prevent the Conderates from crossing the western shore of the Susquehanna in 1863 are described. The burning of the bridge is reenacted each year.
http://www.pacivilwartrails.com/stori...


message 235: by Selena (new)

Selena | 4 comments I am a native Texan who has lived in southern Japan, Minnesota, Massachusetts and am currently back in MN but itching to return out east.

Many of F. Scott Fitzgerald's and Garrison Keillor of course and Sinclair Lewis's Main Street as well as surprisingly, a Duma Key of all things.

There are, of course, many books set in at my alma mater, Smith College and Northampton. I haven't read too many books that take place in Texas or Japan as yet.


message 234: by Amanda (new)

Amanda Mccreight | 17 comments Charles wrote: "Amanda wrote: "Allie - you should definitely put Scotland on your 'to do' list and you would enjoy our scenery and people. England, just over the border, has beautiful historic places as well. Mos..."

Charles - I love Edinburgh and often go there for the weekend. If you should go again, and the Fringe is great entertainment, you should (if you havent already)check out the Castle, Holyrood Palace, Leith Docks (where the Queen's Yacht is berthed now) and there are some great art galleries. Anyway, I'll need to be careful I'm not turning this into an advert for Scottish tourism ,lol.. Treat yourself to a kilt..


message 233: by Charles (new)

Charles Amanda wrote: "Allie - you should definitely put Scotland on your 'to do' list and you would enjoy our scenery and people. England, just over the border, has beautiful historic places as well. Most of the UK is ..."

The only time I was in Scotland was for the Fringe. That was incredible -- had a theater overdose, and tramped all over Edinburgh. Took a bus tour of the region and was introduced to coos and haggis (the modern sort) which were both delighful. I'd like to go again.


message 232: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Sep 03, 2013 04:29PM) (new)

Bentley | 31962 comments Mod
Amanda wrote: "Allie - you should definitely put Scotland on your 'to do' list and you would enjoy our scenery and people. England, just over the border, has beautiful historic places as well. Most of the UK is ..."

They just sit there as big as life just watching the world go by. The horn did nothing on that northern most road going from east to west. They knew who owned that road and it was not us. Have not tried the Scottish tablet.


message 231: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 31962 comments Mod
I was joking of course (smile).

But you will love Scotland - I know I did and do.


message 230: by Allie (new)

Allie Bentley - The beach isn't what comes to mind when I think of Scotland lol, but thanks for the advice!

Amanda - I'm actually planning a trip to London so I figured I should just travel from there to Edinburgh (and everywhere else in between). Can't wait! There's no doubt in my mind that I'll definitely enjoy the scenery. I have a beautiful big coffee table book about Scotland and I just want to jump right thru the pages!


message 229: by Amanda (new)

Amanda Mccreight | 17 comments Allie - you should definitely put Scotland on your 'to do' list and you would enjoy our scenery and people. England, just over the border, has beautiful historic places as well. Most of the UK is a history buff's paradise.

Bentley - lol, that is so true, your story about the highland cattle (or ' heeland coos' as we would say). Clapping or sounding your car horn is the only way to move them, bless them. I'm glad you enjoyed my wee history. We all have very interesting stories to tell. If you come again, I hope you try the Scottish tablet, and I mean the sweet variety, not the electronic kind..


message 228: by Diane (D.L.) (new)

Diane (D.L.) Rogers (DLRogers) | 7 comments Diane (D.L.) wrote: "And the history I've learned here in Missouri just blows my mind. I actually live right where a thriving small town used to be (it's still there, but has only a church and a few homes)that was a ho..."

That's stories! :D


message 227: by Diane (D.L.) (new)

Diane (D.L.) Rogers (DLRogers) | 7 comments And the history I've learned here in Missouri just blows my mind. I actually live right where a thriving small town used to be (it's still there, but has only a church and a few homes)that was a hotbed of political unrest prior to and during the Civil War. Jim Lane's Kansans, Jennison's Jayhawkers, the Missouri Home Guard (Union), and finally the Redlegs wreaked havoc on Western Missouri, leaving it "the Burnt District" when all was said and done. Lone chimneys marked where many a home had been, burned to the ground and nothing but charred remains left. Very sad, heartrending storyies.


message 226: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 31962 comments Mod
Wow - you did move around - I always wonder because the midwest is so different from both coasts. (Topography, people, culture, attitudes)


message 225: by Diane (D.L.) (new)

Diane (D.L.) Rogers (DLRogers) | 7 comments @ Bently - Sorry for the delay in responding. Internet went out Sunday morning and was out all weekend. My ex-husband had wandering feet. Got bored or transferred with jobs and so we moved. Went from NJ to Ohio (BC/before children) then Texas, Connecticut and finally MO.


message 224: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Sep 01, 2013 06:14PM) (new)

Bentley | 31962 comments Mod
I was in Scotland a couple of years ago and we traveled the circumference of Scotland starting from England - what a trip. Tremendous

Went up the East side - got a lot of weather - bought a wax coat - could not keep my outer coats dry - and went to Glasgow and Edinburgh as well as Inverness, and from Aberdeen up to the top - John O' Groats and then West across the top (funniest A road that I have ever been on - had to get out and clap hands to get the Highland cows out of the way who were just sitting in the road happy as clams).

And then the most magnificent stag was just outside my car window and I just stopped and stared at him and he us. I think at that time - we were the only ones on the road.

Then we were on the West side - going North to South along the Western coast - the weather improved all the way to Ullapool (loved that area - with the rugged mountains and the highlands - etc - extremely beautiful).

Loved the trip and your country and would love to go back.

Allie if you go to Aberdeen and you are by the North Sea - buy a wax coat - serious rain gear and don't think you are going to the beach by the North Sea - I have never seen a more turbulent body of water - could hardly cross the road because of the wind.

But found a wonderful restaurant which I would highly recommend in Aberdeen - it is called Silver Darling and was at the port entrance where the boats go by in what I think was a former customs house but goodness I was so wet and drenched - I looked like a drowned rat when we arrived - they took our coats and placed them on the radiators to dry them out some - lovely restaurant and great food.

A real find for us especially in that weather. Edinburgh was delightful, so was Inverness - especially the surrounding countryside, towns, and castles - many, many castles.

Amanda what an interesting story - I am trying to remember if we went through Paisley. We just might of. But I never knew the history of the town until you posted. Thank you so much for sharing your history with us.


message 223: by Allie (new)

Allie I def need to put Scotland on my "to do" list. Have always wanted to go. My Scottish grandmother went back to Aberdeen to visit her cousins and she said I was too young to go. I was 14 at the time. Whatever! lol.
Anyway ~ the history of the city I grew up in isnt very interesting. It was a garbage dump. Literally! Its quite nice now tho :)


message 222: by Amanda (last edited Sep 01, 2013 04:16PM) (new)

Amanda Mccreight | 17 comments Christopher wrote: "Amanda wrote: "I'm also new to this group. I live in a little mill town in Scotland called Paisley, which is the origin of the famous patterned cloth. We are very fortunate to have had a rich and..."

Well Christopher, you learn something new every day, and especially in this Group!! Most people here in Paisley are descended from Weavers and people who worked in the mills in some capacity. You must put Scotland on your 'to do' list.


message 221: by Christopher (new)

Christopher Amanda wrote: "I'm also new to this group. I live in a little mill town in Scotland called Paisley, which is the origin of the famous patterned cloth. We are very fortunate to have had a rich and interesting hi..."

Thanks for sharing the history of where you live, Amanda! I did not know Paisley originated in Scotland. I'm also jealous because I've been dying to visit for a long time!


message 220: by Amanda (new)

Amanda Mccreight | 17 comments I'm also new to this group. I live in a little mill town in Scotland called Paisley, which is the origin of the famous patterned cloth. We are very fortunate to have had a rich and interesting history in our town, indeed the surrounding area has been at the heart of Scottish History for hundreds of years. Paisley is a large town situated 7 miles (11 km) W of Glasgow, and 53 miles (85 km) W of Edinburgh and is the largest town in Scotland. The town grew up around Oakshaw, on the west side of the White Cart river, where a Roman fort may have existed.
Its growth in the early 19th century was primarily through textiles (printing, bleaching, cotton thread) and the name ‘Paisley’ was given to the Kashmiri pattern of curving shapes found on silk and cotton fabric. Notable buildings include the Paisley Town Hall (1879-82), Paisley Museum and Art Gallery, the Coats Observatory (1883), the John Neilson Institution (1849-52), Stanely Castle (15th century, in the Stanely Reservoir to the south of the town), the Sma’ Shot Cottages and Paisley Abbey, a Cluniac monastery founded in 1163 by St Mirin. Robert the Bruce's daughter Marjory is buried in our abbey and the towns charter was granted by King Malcolm IV of Scotland in 1157, so we go back quite a few centuries.
Sadly there are no working mills left in Paisley, but their machinery and history have been preserved for visitors, and of course the Paisley pattern is world famous.


message 219: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 31962 comments Mod
It is a pretty powerful tool for our members - because it has many different layers - it is thread specific, group specific and goodreads specific.

Interesting story and South Dakota might not be the kind of state I might take too being that I love New England (the coasts) and like the Metro New York City area. Love the ocean and salt air.

You should go over to The Metaphysical Club discussion and jump in where you see a topic that interests you.

The Metaphysical Club by Louis Menand by Louis MenandLouis Menand


message 218: by Charles (new)

Charles Bentley wrote: "Wow - a very big sky - sounds wonderful.

Yes we try to give credit where credit is due and we like the indexing feature of the goodreads software - because then your post is indexed and with the c..."


Yes, I noticed the indexing. None of the other groups I am a member of seem to use it. I'll have to look again.

No, actually I didn't move back to where I came from, which was eastern South Dakota. I say that I faced west growing up, so that I cared much more about Native American history, Mountain Men, and such, but again was starved for resources. It was the same old children's stories and Running Bear stuff. You had to work hard in archives and documents collections I didn't have access to or know how to use. The archives I worked at in New York had some materials relating to the Seneca and Iroquois, which gave me clues about this sort of thing, and eventually I was able to put together a little piece myself. Boy did that feel good. The New Western historians have changed the situation a great deal.

There is also a paucity of good fiction about these places. I've wondered if the two phenomena were related.


message 217: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 31962 comments Mod
Wow - a very big sky - sounds wonderful.

Yes we try to give credit where credit is due and we like the indexing feature of the goodreads software - because then your post is indexed and with the citations folks can find it and read what you had to say and your recommendations. If you check out the right hand margin - you will see on each thread - all of the books that have been cited, all of the authors, how many people discussed a particular book and author. And what is wonderful is the Other Topics option which will show you where on the site - folks are talking about your book or author and you can click on that location. Also, connections to books and authors are done through these citations even on the goodreads site as a whole. Very powerful software when utilized.

Getting back to your location - you went back to where you grew up after a stint in New York. It is alway good to be back home.


message 216: by Charles (last edited Sep 01, 2013 07:44AM) (new)

Charles Kathy wrote: "André wrote: "Kathy, some nice thoughts hit into stone.
I like the apparent desire for harmony and peace.
But I wonder how on earth they want to go at trying to rule faith through reason... I'm pr..."


Wouldn't our own deists, such as Franklin was, qualify as tempered reason/passion and faith? I believe William James allows for such a thing as well.
The Varieties of Religious Experience by William James by William James


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