Goodreads Ireland discussion
Ireland By Frank Delaney
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I really enjoyed this novel. although I initially had reservations about it, they were soon forgotten as the writers style charmed me into liking it despite myself. I liked nearly all of the characters, especially Professor Ryle. His confidence and self assurance reminded me of more than one academic that I've met in my time. Especially as it was tempered with genuine affection for his students. I also liked Dickie the barman who reminded me of the kind of amiable and quick-witted men of my grandfather's generation. These characters, and more, gave the book real colour.
As for the main characters, It was spelt out for us that their lives were entwined from the moment the storyteller stepped into the house, and as their relationships with Ronan were elaborated upon, I pretty much knew what was what. This didn't ruin my enjoyment. It kept me interested to see what would happen when Ronan discovered his family's secrets. When those secrets were finally revealed, his reaction was key.
I would echo just about everything you've said, Declan. I enjoyed it very much. Since I'm not from Ireland, some of the stories were new to me. I was wondering how those of you from Ireland felt about them. Were they too familiar? Too trite? Just right? Any new twists or spins on the storyteller's part?
Just finished the book! awww! I wanted more stories! Declan, I was not so sure about the relationships as you were. I knew that something was going on but I only figured it out halfway, before we were told.I have been doing a lot of reading regarding Irelands history, and I find that this book related the stories so well. Like listening to a good History lecturer. As a historian, I believe that history is better learned when told as a story. I loved the paper Ronan wrote about the Penal Laws. I did something similar in University-- the professor was not so understanding.
This book has also put into words many of my feelings about Ireland and the Irish. I am very lucky and honored to live here. There is much to learn. I don't think the world knows the half of what Ireland is about. Mo's questions are interesting... what do you Irish think about t his book.
I found the stories of the myths very true to what I had learned as a child. There were no stories on the origins of Newgrange or poetry that I remember. The history was just as I remember it. Most schools in Ireland only teach modern and recent for the leaving certificate, which means we do History for neolithic Ireland up to the act of union when we're young teenagers, and teachers are a bit more 'artistic,' (I suppose you could call it that) When relating those periods to us. Kind of like Ronan's paper on the Penal Laws. Some of the stories were more familiar than others. I've heard the story of the story of the Salmon of Knowledge far too many times at this stage. I think this is why it mentioned almost as a side-note. That differed somewhat from the story I read at primary school as Fionn (Finn) was student of Finegas (Finn Eces) Who caught the Salmon. These discrepancies pop up all the time however.
Things like the warrior trials stay consistent. The parts that he described were the same as described to me as a child.
I loved the story of James Hanly and G F Handel. As a kid I used to hear a lot of tall tales. If any of you have read Paddy Clarke Ha Ha Ha you might remember when his father tells him of a man who made his fortune making pips for oranges. This tickled me as my own father once told me not to eat apple pips as a tree would grow out of my mouth from my stomach and birds would nest on it. The story of Handel reminded me so much of this that read it all smiling like a loon.
I come from a culture of tall tales... in ours it was lemon pips. Imagine the fright! thorns and all! A book is wonderful when it makes you smile, or cry. This book did both for me.I am glad that you had such good history teachers, that is how they should tell history to children.
I am also happy that the book is accurate, thus I feel privileged to have read it,here in Ireland--where I can confirm the stories and visit the places.
the Handel story was brilliant!
Mae wrote: "I come from a culture of tall tales... in ours it was lemon pips. Imagine the fright! thorns and all! A book is wonderful when it makes you smile, or cry. This book did both for me.I am glad tha..."
Maybe you can recommend some of your favourite childhood stories for future Monthly Reads?
But they are in Spanish!!! I guess I could find translations... but I have a feeling they are going to be expensive here in Ireland.
Heres my thing I just finished reading Game of Thrones series each book is well over 800 pages at least one is over 1100 pages and I spoke very highly of them and did not make mention of the length of them when recommending them. The first thing I say about Ireland is "its really long" So I think it was missing somthing for me,but can't quite put my finger on it. I did enjoy it and as I said in my review had a soft spot for little Ronan immediatley, also I felt like his mother deserved some sort of comeuppance. Mean mothers bring out the hate in me though.
Jessi wrote: "Heres my thing I just finished reading Game of Thrones series each book is well over 800 pages at least one is over 1100 pages and I spoke very highly of them and did not make mention of the length..."Perhaps she never truly felt like his mother. It wasn't that she simply gave birth to him and felt no maternal love for him. She did care for him though. That's clear by the mention that she would look at him when thought he was sleeping, affectionately, whereas Kate, On the other hand, gave him the motherly affection he needed.
There was jealousy there too. It was mentioned that during the time John and Kate were conceiving Ronan they developed real affection towards one another. This must have coloured her feelings toward Ronan. Her reaction to the story of Dana suggests the same.
I agree with you Declan. I think it must be really difficult to show affection or love to your sister's child with the man you love and are married to. Its a case of "be careful for what you ask for". She really wanted a child, opted for an interesting option-- her husband and her sister. I am sure she could see the love that developed between them. And further, this is a very religious woman, who married a bastard and had a bastard "son". She probably thought she could love the kid as she loved her bastard husband. We must notice however, that it was a very biblical solution--Rachel and Jacob. But I guess jealousy got in the way. I believe there is a parallel, btw her despise of the storyteller (her husbands father and her distance with Ronan)Thank God, Ronan had Kate and his Dad, not to mention the Storyteller. He never lacked love, in fact I think that half his problems as a young adult was the fact that he was so spoiled. He never learned how to get over suffering or even figure out things on his own. (how he was always held during his tantrums...). And it was the search for the storyteller that allowed him to grow.
Personally, I wish all of us could have such a "horrible"life as Ronan had.
Mae wrote: "I agree with you Declan. I think it must be really difficult to show affection or love to your sister's child with the man you love and are married to. Its a case of "be careful for what you ask f..."I agree with everything you just said. Even by the end of the book, his 'mother' warmed to him immensely. Probably for no other reason then there was no longer a reason for jealousy.
It was very much a coming-of-age novel. We see Ronan growing slowly but surely into a man. He was incredibly spoilt. Even when he's striking out on his own, he has a large inheritance. pretty handy when you decide to traverse your country on a wild-goose chase.
I can't recall now who recommended this book but I can't thank them enough. At first I was sceptical but I was soon wallowing in the tales and in the thread that held it all together - Ronan and his life. I figured the core mystery out fairly soon, having just read The Selkie Girl to my niece and connecting it to the name Ronan.One thing I really wondered about. The saints and monks decribed in the stories, especially at the beginning, are joyous, imaginative and large spirited people. This was not my experience of life in Catholic school and is certainly not echoed by the mother who makes her religion into a hair shirt, though I guess we see why.
Teaching history with myths and stories resonates. I know more about the history of the coastal First Nations here in Canada from the legends of Raven and lots about the American midwest from Paul Bunyan and Johnny Appleseed.
Good choice and looking forward to the next.
Roberta wrote: "I can't recall now who recommended this book but I can't thank them enough. At first I was sceptical but I was soon wallowing in the tales and in the thread that held it all together - Ronan and h..."There are still women (and men) who have an unshakeable devotion to the CC in Ireland. I've met many people like her in my time, but you're right. It wasn't a fair reflection on the severity of the Christian Brother's or convent schools. That side of education was probably deliberately avoided.
Have you read A Great Feast of Light: Growing Up Irish in the Television Age? I found it enlightening on this topic. I think my question or wonder was about when the church went from being joyous to being crabbed and liminting in so many ways. I think faith should be an enlarging feeling.I liked that Ronan was a questing character.
I think the CC was always interested in control more than spiritual enlightenment. When the free state was declared they quickly gained a foothold. The Irish constitution in rife with catholic demagoguery. Straight from the opening paragraph.
I am in the middle of reading this book:IrelandI thought it was slow reading initially but as I proceeded, the book became more and more interesting. What a wonderful way to make history become more alive. I love the story within the story format. There are so many enduring truths within the tales and the story line. So I will have to return to the book now. I do wish I had that gift of telling or writing stories.
Roberta wrote: "Have you read A Great Feast of Light: Growing Up Irish in the Television Age? I found it enlightening on this topic. I think my question or wonder was about when the church went fro..."I really, really loved this book. I am an old sociology major and was fascinated to think of the impact of television on Irish culture. I compared it to another book Snapper, which I was reading at the same time. Between the two books, Ireland goes from a county dominated by an oppressive culture to a country (at least in working class Dublin) where almost anything goes. Changes in technology or anything else can be for good or bad or for anything in between. It makes me wonder more and more how our current technologies are impacting our many different cultures and history. Example: the role of cell phones, Blackberries etc in facilitating the revolutions taking place in the Middle East and the current riots in England.
Declan wrote: "Jessi wrote: "Heres my thing I just finished reading Game of Thrones series each book is well over 800 pages at least one is over 1100 pages and I spoke very highly of them and did not make mention..."As I think about the mom, I see that much of her reaction was related to the situation but there was something more going on. Given her level of uncontrolled irritability and her excessive involvement with the Church etc, I suspect there was an underlying bipolar disorder. Strangely it was hinted at as a condition which the sister might have but I didn't see that at all. Ronan too had something going on in his psychological make-up other than being an over-indulged child who wasn't given the opportunity to manage his own emotions.
Laura wrote: "Declan wrote: "Jessi wrote: "Heres my thing I just finished reading Game of Thrones series each book is well over 800 pages at least one is over 1100 pages and I spoke very highly of them and did n..."I didn't give too much thought to that beyond Kate's bipolar disorder, but now that you mention it seems pretty significant. I must pay more attention in future.
Laura wrote: "Declan wrote: "Jessi wrote: "Heres my thing I just finished reading Game of Thrones series each book is well over 800 pages at least one is over 1100 pages and I spoke very highly of them and did n..."Laura I did not connect Ronan with that either, but it makes sense. When Ronan is in his late teen years and he had that horrendous tantrum I thought that it was so out of character for his age. Bipolar did not click for me but now that its in front of me, I get that avenue of thinking for sure.
I finished Ireland last night and I am feeling a little bereft. I always feel that way when I finish a book that I have been very involve in. I know I will return to it to explore the many themes. As Ronan's professor said, history goes forward. Ireland's history of oppression continues to play itself out.The one thing about the story I didn't quite get the point of... Why was there such a deal about Ronan becoming one to the richest young men in Ireland? Yes, money frees him to do his thing but why the richest?
Laura wrote: "I finished Ireland last night and I am feeling a little bereft. I always feel that way when I finish a book that I have been very involve in. I know I will return to it to explore the many themes..."I don't think there was supposed to be much to it. I think it just allowed him to travel in order to look for the storyteller. It might just have been convenient for the writer to make him rich.
Re: the riches for Ronan -- it seemed gratuitous, a nod to the changing economic times, the end of austerity.Overall -- hope this makes someone laugh -- I give it the Joan Rivers gagging hand motion... The author hasn't lived in Ireland for years, his voice has lost the natural speech rhythm and alternates between Yank staccato and West Brit breeziness and words like "merry". Aaack ! And every maudlin image is trotted out, except there were no JFK ashtrays... The history is slicked over and sacrificed to the rambling plot, or would the reverse be true?
Admittedly, am not a fan of this author. He's connected with the NYC establishment for marketing, so good on him for racking up sales but the stuff ought to be banned as toxic.
I said from the start that I thought the novel smacked of pre-packaged paddywhackery, but he still got a lot of things right in my opinion. No, he hasn't lived in in Ireland for years, but he isn't writing a contemporary novel about Dublin corner-boys. As far as the accents go, the ones that I would be familiar were accurate. Dickie the barman was written with brogue familiar to me from men of my Grandfather's generation. As for the West Brit breeziness; I had no problem with this. It fitted very comfortably with my notions of the educated classes, (even from my own childhood in the eighties), which were still very much dominated by the upper classes. Including an abundance of Protestant Anglo-Irish. I'm surprised that you reacted so strongly to this book. This won't be on any University, required reading lists, but there is always room for laid-back novels of this sort.
Declan, it is what it is -- and I stated above my own comments were for laughs.His rendition of the tale of Aodh Mór Ó Néill was one section I enjoyed, and the narrative itself had the rhythm one would expect.
Edit: IMO, E. Rutherfurd did a better job and in far fewer pages of giving Newgrange/the Boyne its proper context. And for a truly bravura treatment of the Boyne...well we all know what I would suggest reading!
I've never even heard of the E. Rutherford novel, but I'll grant that you're probably right. But the novel, for me at least, was about the importance of stories both historically and culturally. I felt that it was less about the tales and more about the decline of storytelling due to the popularity of the wireless and the advent of television.
I'd suggest this book for travel or bedtime reading.
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Books mentioned in this topic
Ireland (other topics)Paddy Clarke Ha Ha Ha (other topics)
The Selkie Girl (other topics)
A Great Feast of Light: Growing Up Irish in the Television Age (other topics)
Declan.