The Readers Review: Literature from 1800 to 1910 discussion

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Croissants, Coffee & Tea > Croissants, Coffee & Tea--Part the Fourth

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message 351: by Everyman (new)

Everyman | 2592 comments Deborah wrote: "I'm behind on everything right now. Need to finish Jude and start Pickwick. I have both loaded onto my Nook as I hit the airport/airplane again tomorrow to head back to Massachusetts to get the m..."

Take care of yourself. Enough is enough. We'll be here waiting when you can find time for us, but it sounds as though you need to focus more on the move and all the ancillary aspects of it. Dickens has waited 150 years or so; he can wait an extra month of two!


message 352: by Lily (new)

Lily (Joy1) | 2306 comments Deborah wrote: "I'm behind on everything right now...."

Yes, Deborah, I agree with Eman. Take care of yourself. Now, if that means a good soak with a good book, okay! Or some time on that airplane to block everything else out for an hour or so!

The best to you for everything on your plate.


message 353: by Deborah, Moderator (new)

Deborah (DeborahKliegl) | 2818 comments Mod
Thanks for the support guys. I'm frustrated because I LOVE all the authors we are reading and don't want to miss a thing. My posts may be few this next week. After that, I'm hoping that I can give the at least the business side of my businesses away. You've already made me feel better ;-)


message 354: by Jeanne (new)

Jeanne (jeanne_voelker) Good luck with all you have to do, Deborah. A coast-to-coast move is major, but the stress, I hope, is temporary.


message 355: by Rochelle (last edited May 01, 2011 09:33PM) (new)

Rochelle (Rochelle2) | 3165 comments I just heard the news about Bin Laden on NPR. I just felt I should say something, even if we can't get into politics here. We are living in a different world than the one we had this morning.


message 356: by Lily (new)

Lily (Joy1) | 2306 comments A different call to my son tonight than almost ten years ago to tell him to turn on his television. Ten years ago days before he had been at a summer job in at the Financial Center adjacent to the WTC.

A few weeks ago a friend buried her sister who had died from medical conditions arising from that decade ago day.


message 357: by MadgeUK (new)

MadgeUK | 5214 comments We still don't speak it in America. But then, neither do you in England.

Estuary English is widely spoken around London Everyman and is the 'modern' dialect of Essex on the Thames Estuary:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_re...

Living on the outskirts of London, my daughter is fighting a battle against it with her two children who are rapidly developing the 'glottal stop'.


message 358: by MadgeUK (last edited May 02, 2011 01:00PM) (new)

MadgeUK | 5214 comments Prince William glance up at the building across from Westminster as they left...

There were marksmen on top of all the buildings on the route Lily.

I have not read anything about a Muslim clergy person being present...

I don't know about specific Mullahs/Imams but there were several prominent Muslims present. On the other hand, there has been quite a lot of comment about the lack of black faces, both amongst the military personnel and at the abbey. I believe the American media has also commented on this - the day when a royal marries a black or brown person will be a day indeed, equivalent to America electing a black President!

The Muslim Chairman of the Conservative Party, Baroness Warsi, hosted the street party in Downing Street afterwards and the DS cat was correctly dressed for the day:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknew...

Edit: Come to think of it Lily, there wouldn't be any Mullahs or Imams present because it was a Friday and they would have to attend prayers.


message 359: by MadgeUK (new)

MadgeUK | 5214 comments Deborah wrote: I'm behind on everything right now.

It is great that you can pop in on us from time to time Deborah. Moving house is always a very stressful time and yours seems to have extra stress involved:(. Keep your chin up and think how wonderful your new home will be after it is all over and what fun Madison is going to have exploring it all!


message 360: by MadgeUK (last edited May 02, 2011 03:39AM) (new)

MadgeUK | 5214 comments It is very good news that Bin Laden has been killed in Pakistan, where he has apparently been hiding in a housing compound since February but it is bad news that it is likely to lead to a lot of reprisals:( The terror threat is still there and will be there for a long time yet because of the number of other Islamic terrorist cells there are in the world, not necessarily connected to Al Queda:(:(. (And in the UK we appear to have a resurgence of the IRA...)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/major...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/art...


message 361: by Traveller (last edited May 02, 2011 06:22AM) (new)

Traveller (Moontravlr) | 178 comments Yep, good news. I think that terrorist groups who intended violence against the West, would have continued violence if they possibly could anyway, irrespective of the death of Bin Laden, although of course now they have an added 'reason' for launching anti-US/anti-Western attacks.


message 362: by Lily (new)

Lily (Joy1) | 2306 comments The Christian Science Monitor:

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-S...


message 363: by Ellen (new)

Ellen | 220 comments Deborah wrote: "I'm behind on everything right now. Need to finish Jude and start Pickwick. I have both loaded onto my Nook as I hit the airport/airplane again tomorrow to head back to Massachusetts to get the m..."

Which two businesses are you offloading, Deborah? And you're so right: Packing is a nightmare indeed. Please make sure you get some rest in between doing all of this!


message 364: by Ellen (new)

Ellen | 220 comments At the risk of being redundant, Deborah, I echo what others have said. Dickens can wait a while until you're more settled. Just take care of yourself and don't wear yourself out, OK?

Good luck with everything,
Ellen


message 365: by Rochelle (new)

Rochelle (Rochelle2) | 3165 comments Traveller wrote: "Yep, good news. I think that terrorist groups who intended violence against the West, would have continued violence if they possibly could anyway, irrespective of the death of Bin Laden, although ..."

And he was near a military school. What did the Pakistanis know and when did they know it? Heads are gonna roll.


message 366: by Rochelle (last edited May 02, 2011 09:04PM) (new)

Rochelle (Rochelle2) | 3165 comments Madge, re: cats and water--they don't have to be Turkish--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Kswnj...

This is a very roundabout way to drink. He hasn't figured out that he can stand in the sink and turn his mouth up :D


message 367: by Jeanne (new)

Jeanne (jeanne_voelker) Funny cat! Thanks, Rochelle.


message 368: by MadgeUK (new)

MadgeUK | 5214 comments That's a very funny video Rochelle - have sent it to my cat loving grandaughters!


message 369: by Traveller (last edited May 03, 2011 01:24AM) (new)

Traveller (Moontravlr) | 178 comments I'm rather surprised that cat didn't try and use his paw.
I had a cat that would love sitting on my desk. If I left my cup of coffee unguarded, he would dip his paw in and suck, dip and suck...

Needless to say, that while I had Mr Paws around, my coffee bill was quite steep... :P

(I couldn't face drinking the rest after he'd had his paw in it... cats are so devious... :P)


message 370: by MadgeUK (last edited May 03, 2011 02:01AM) (new)

MadgeUK | 5214 comments This is a thought provoking article on the environment which I saw in the Guardian today. I don't want to provoke a political discussion - I just thought some folks might like to read it and ponder:-

http://www.monbiot.com/2011/05/02/the...


message 371: by MadgeUK (new)

MadgeUK | 5214 comments Freedom of protest isn't what it used to be:-

http://www.dangerousminds.net/comment...

My youngest grand-daughter's school class was asked to dress up as a king or a queen on the 28th but my son and his wife sent her to school as a tricoteuse, with wool, knitting needles and a balloon head in a basket, a la Madame Defarge in Dickens' Tale of Two Cities!! Good job the police weren't around in Devon!


message 372: by Melissa (new)

Melissa (balletbookworm) | 8 comments Rochelle wrote: "Melissa wrote: "I just moved with my two kitties back in Januray; it was only across town but the 5 minute car ride was awful (whining and crying)....Where have you been, Melissa? "

Busy busy busy. :P

The boys are fine now - they are particularly happy that I bought them a house with stairs to chase up and down and two TV channels outside - "RodentTV" downstairs and "BirdTV" upstairs.


message 373: by Deborah, Moderator (new)

Deborah (DeborahKliegl) | 2818 comments Mod
Ellen wrote: "Deborah wrote: "I'm behind on everything right now. Need to finish Jude and start Pickwick. I have both loaded onto my Nook as I hit the airport/airplane again tomorrow to head back to Massachuse..."

Hi Ellen (and everybody) - I'm in Connecticut with my father. Got in late last evening. Read a little bit more of Jude before I fell asleep on the plane. Since I'm afraid of flying, that's quite a feat for me.

I own a Jazzercise franchise as what they call a class owner. I have two locations with classes. I had a third, but we had to close them as the teaching instructor was supposed to take ownership of that one and she changed her mind. Now I'm trying to find people interested in the two locations. I'm basically giving the business away to whomever wants it including all the equipment needed to make it run. It has trained staff as well, with only a handful of the 8 classes (between the two) that need to be taught by somebody. The other classes already have regularly scheduled instructors.


message 374: by Deborah, Moderator (new)

Deborah (DeborahKliegl) | 2818 comments Mod
Rochelle wrote: "Madge, re: cats and water--they don't have to be Turkish--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Kswnj...

This is a very roundabout way to drink. He hasn't figured out that he can stand in the sink an..."


That was really funny. Madison likes to soak one paw and then suck the water off the paw.


message 375: by Deborah, Moderator (new)

Deborah (DeborahKliegl) | 2818 comments Mod
Here's an update. I'll be gone all day tomorrow as it is filled with home inspections and mortgage stuff. Should be able to access computer again on Thurs and Fri for a little while. Then on airplane again on Sat. Hoping that by Sat am finished w/Jude and Pickwick.


message 376: by Everyman (new)

Everyman | 2592 comments MadgeUK wrote: "My youngest grand-daughter's school class was asked to dress up as a king or a queen on the 28th but my son and his wife sent her to school as a tricoteuse, with wool, knitting needles and a balloon head in a basket, a la Madame Defarge in Dickens' Tale of Two Cities!! "

And if your son's boss had asked him to come to work dressed in formal clothes for an event he was planning for clients, I assume he would have shown up in torn jeans and a sweatshirt?

Maybe I'm old fashioned, bu it seems to me to show significant disrespect for the teacher and to undermine her authority with the students, since the parents refuse to cooperate with a straightforward request. I'm sure this made it harder for the teacher to get across the lesson he or she had planned for the day and was a disruption in the classroom.

As a former teacher, I think this was a significant mistake. If your son wanted to teach his daughter a different approach to monarchy, I think there would have a better way to do it than to metaphorically slap the teacher across the face and make a difficult job even harder.

But I realize that teachers don't get much, if any, reinspect from most parents these days, so maybe I shouldn't have been surprised by this.


message 377: by Deborah, Moderator (new)

Deborah (DeborahKliegl) | 2818 comments Mod
I don't know that we can decide whether what Madge's family did was considered disrespect as we don't truly know what was the exact request of the teacher. Besides, why dress kids up as kings and queens? If it is to learn history, then the other piece of history is just a valid. Just my opinion.


message 378: by Everyman (new)

Everyman | 2592 comments Deborah wrote: "I don't know that we can decide whether what Madge's family did was considered disrespect as we don't truly know what was the exact request of the teacher. Besides, why dress kids up as kings and ..."

If it had been my classroom, I would have at least expected the parents to ask ahead of time whether this would be a disruption in my class and interfere with what I was trying to teach, or whether I could incorporate it into the teaching process. Perhaps that happened, but if it did, we weren't told that.


message 379: by Everyman (new)

Everyman | 2592 comments Deborah wrote: "If it is to learn history, then the other piece of history is just a valid. Just my opinion. "

Yes it is, but was that the time for that lesson, and was it up to a parent to decide what the lesson should be?

As a teacher yourself, I would think that you would hope your students would respect the way in which you wanted to teach your classes, or if they had issues at least to discuss them with you first, not just to come in in a way that they could be pretty sure would disrupt the class and make your job harder because they wanted to challenge your lesson plan decisions?


message 380: by Jan (new)

Jan (Auntyjan) | 483 comments ...can they knit? I used to take my knitting to school, as I found it helped me concentrate in language lab. As long as they sit quietly and knit....in fact, perhaps it should be encouraged...imagine classrooms full of children quietly knitting, while focussing their attention on the teacher....


message 381: by Everyman (new)

Everyman | 2592 comments Jan wrote: "...can they knit? I used to take my knitting to school, as I found it helped me concentrate in language lab."

I don't think many children learn how to knit (or to sew) these days. I think I've mentioned before that my mother-in-law used to knit and read, but you have to have your knitting down to a pretty automatic status to make that work. You must have been pretty good! Do you still knit?

It probably wouldn't have worked in the classes I taught, since students would have been needing to take notes or work on problems or writing during significant parts of the class.


message 382: by Jan (new)

Jan (Auntyjan) | 483 comments Haven't knitted for years, but in the language lab, there was a lot of listen/repeat or listen/respond but nothing visual or tactile, so it actually helped my concentration to have the knitting as a constant, otherwise one track is doing language, while the other track (of the brain) starts wandering in imaginary realms. Keep knitting and you keep focussed. I don't know if other people have different threads going at once in their head, but this worked for me. I usually watch tv while cooking, read goodreads posts while talking to my sister on the phone and sometimes compose poetry while out walking. I did try reading while walking, but I haven't mastered it yet, also it's very bright here, so the pages are a bit dazzling.


message 383: by Everyman (new)

Everyman | 2592 comments Jan wrote: "I did try reading while walking, but I haven't mastered it yet, also it's very bright here, so the pages are a bit dazzling. "

I did a walking regimen for awhile, and listened to audio books. At that time, I had a small tape player and got books on tape from the library. Nowadays I can download audiobooks either from Audible or from the library (though they don't have many classics) onto my ippd or Sansa clip. That kept me more interested than listening to music did.


message 384: by Adelle (new)

Adelle Christopher wrote: "Moderator's Note--

I am off to Yosemite National Park for a week of camping and landscape photography first thing tomorrow (Saturday, April 30th), and will be back in the 'real world' on Thursday,..."


How lovely for you! I 've always wanted to go back there a second time...and will be taking my brother there this summer. Leave a few photos for us to take. Smile.


message 385: by Jeanne (new)

Jeanne (jeanne_voelker) Jan,

I can do only one thing at a time. If I had to watch TV while cooking, it would make me dizzy. Since I don't have a TV, I guess I've escaped that danger. ;-)


message 386: by Rochelle (new)

Rochelle (Rochelle2) | 3165 comments Jan wrote: "Haven't knitted for years, but in the language lab, there was a lot of listen/repeat or listen/respond but nothing visual or tactile, so it actually helped my concentration to have the knitting as ..."

How about walking while chewing gum? :)


message 387: by MadgeUK (last edited May 04, 2011 01:05AM) (new)

MadgeUK | 5214 comments Maybe I'm old fashioned, bu it seems to me to show significant disrespect for the teacher....

LOL. Lighten up Everyman - this was a fun day with the (junior) kids dressing up for a royal wedding in the playground. The teachers took it in the lighthearted, satirical way it was intended and were not at all stuffy about it. As Deborah points out, perhaps explaining to the children what a tricoteuse was would have added to their education, if they got any actual education on that day. In any case a lesson plan on monarchy in a UK school would most likely include reference to the beheading of Charles I and the American and French revolutions.

At the school where my youngest daughter teaches, everyone dressed up that day and she sewed a rough wedding dress and a frock coat for two of the children to get 'married' in. The teachers sported a wide variety of large hats and the head-teacher wore a mitre and cloak in which to perform the wedding ceremony! Events like this took place in schools all over the UK on the day prior to the wedding. As could be seen from the crowds who watched the wedding, dressing up in wild costumes was part of the occasion and is a very British thing.

My daughter tells me that it was such a successful day that the staff are now planning to get the children involved in a mock Hindu wedding - now that should be fun and a good opportunity to teach about another culture. The school already have Ramadan and Passover days where the children are taught the religious significance and sample certain foods, My eldest grand-daughter's junior school once had an overnight Succoth where some of the children bivouaced overnight underneath a leafy structure on the school playing field. (The Hebrew word sukkōt is the plural of sukkah, 'booth or tabernacle', which is a walled structure covered with flora, such as tree branches or bamboo shoots. The sukkah is intended as a reminiscence of the type of fragile dwellings in which the ancient Israelites dwelt during their 40 years of wandering in the desert after the Exodus from Egypt. Wikipedia.)

School certainly isn't the stuffy place it used to be when I was young and every effort is made to enhance learning with such events.


message 388: by MadgeUK (last edited May 04, 2011 12:11AM) (new)

MadgeUK | 5214 comments Jan wrote: ...imagine classrooms full of children quietly knitting, while focussing their attention on the teacher....

What a wonderful idea Jan:). I used to knit and read, which is fairly easy unless you are doing a complicated pattern, and we had knitting days at school as part of the war effort. Neither knitting nor sewing are taught in schools nowadays but two of my grand-daughters asked to be taught to knit a little while ago because knitted garments were fashionable at the time. I well remember being taught to knit when I was around 5 and my mother left me knitting a doll's scarf while she popped round to the neighbour's house. She returned when she heard me crying loudly - apparently I had knitted quite a length and had collected it in my hand, fearing that if I let go of it, the stitches would drop off the needles!:O


message 389: by Jeanne (new)

Jeanne (jeanne_voelker) It does seem easier for young children to sit and listen to a story (or a concert) if they can be doing something with their hands. When my youngest daughter was a tot, she would listen to me read very long stories if I gave her a string to tie into knots, or something similar. When she was three years old, I took her to the Ladies Musical Club recitals. I gave her a few index cards and a pen so she could 'draw the music' she heard. Without this chance to participate, she would have become restless.


message 390: by Jan (new)

Jan (Auntyjan) | 483 comments I think I never lost my 'inner child'. When my boys were 8 and 10, we travelled right around Australia. I used to read to them from David Copperfield. They each had a piece of paper on which to draw 'bump graphs'...even though the roads were mostly sealed, if you hold a pen to a page you get a pretty interesting pattern...sure beats listening to 'are we nearly there yet' for four months.


message 391: by Everyman (new)

Everyman | 2592 comments MadgeUK wrote: "MThe school already have Ramadan and Passover days where the children are taught the religious significance and sample certain foods,"

So on the Passover celebration does you grand-daughter plan to dress up as Hitler to show that there's another side of the story?


message 392: by Everyman (new)

Everyman | 2592 comments MadgeUK wrote: "Maybe I'm old fashioned, bu it seems to me to show significant disrespect for the teacher....

LOL. Lighten up Everyman -."


Yes, I understand that I am out of touch with the modern world in taking education seriously. Western schools should be all laughter and playing -- we should leave serious education to the Chinese, who are eating our lunch, literally.


message 393: by MadgeUK (last edited May 04, 2011 12:25PM) (new)

MadgeUK | 5214 comments Back to being a curmudgeon again Everyman:). I remember my mother complaining about 'modern' education - it is always the way.

...to show that there's another side of the story?

They have already been told the other side of the story and at secondary school will be shown films of the death camps. My grandchildren are well acquainted with 'the other side' as their other grandparents are Jewish.


message 394: by Lily (new)

Lily (Joy1) | 2306 comments Madge -- thank you for the ways you are treating Everyman. You set a good example for all of us (watching from the back seat?).


message 395: by MadgeUK (new)

MadgeUK | 5214 comments Thanks Lily.


message 396: by Jeanne (new)

Jeanne (jeanne_voelker) Jan,

Bump graphs! Brilliant!!! And good for you for reading David Copperfield to your boys! My mother read An Old-Fashioned Girl and Five Little Peppers and How They Grew to my sister and me before we were old enough to go to school. Whenever one of us said, "I don't understand", my mother would stop reading and explain. Many years later when I learned that most of my contemporaries were read "age-appropriate books" in those years, I asked my mother how she knew to read us something richer. She said, "I just thought I would read better if I read you something I could enjoy." Lucky us!


message 397: by Jeanne (new)

Jeanne (jeanne_voelker) Everyman,
The emphasis on learning and understanding in our culture has been replaced with a focus on entertainment. Parents are still using TV as a babysitter, and advertising warps the taste and judgement of parent and child alike.

In schools, memorization is not encouraged and Western classics (maybe all classics) are jettisoned in favor of contemporary multicultural readings. Our own students are so lacking in math skills that they can't get into engineering schools.

Yes, with some admirable exceptions, there's a lot of downward slide.


message 398: by Jan (new)

Jan (Auntyjan) | 483 comments Our students are so lacking in mathematical skills they can't get in to carpentry!
But I don't see any harm in cultural awareness. I think a lot of the problem lies in the ubiquitous worksheet. Students simply don't have to write much down. They don't have to write complete sentences, just quickly scan for a brief answer, or even choose between ABC or D. Not that that is not appropriate at times, but when do they ever have to do any thinking? And how can you even think if you don't know any basic skills. 'Learning how to learn' is all very well as long as you do actually learn something, sometime. But if you don't have any basic knowledge on which to build, how do you even know what you need to learn?
Jeanne, I haven't encountered any of the books you mentioned. Are they American?

My parents didn't read to me, although my Mother told us fairytales. However my grandfather encouraged me in reading, giving me a book every birthday and Christmas. He gave me Tom Sawyer for my eighth birthday.
I also read all of the Narnia Chronicles to my boys as bedtime stories...one chapter a night. But the younger one, who had ADD, would ask me what happened every time I turned a page.


message 399: by Everyman (new)

Everyman | 2592 comments Jan wrote: "Our students are so lacking in mathematical skills they can't get in to carpentry!
But I don't see any harm in cultural awareness. "


I haven't seen anybody here claiming harm in cultural awareness. Both parents and teachers have a role here, bu they should work together, not at cross purposes -- the parents, at least in my view, should support the teachers and supplement the school curriculum with their own at-home learning if they feel it appropriate. Of course, parents also have a role in making sure that the school is doing its job well, but concerns should, again in my view, be raised first with the teacher privately.

As a former math (and English) teacher, I agree totally that our mathematics curriculum in many schools is woefully inadequate, and the literature our students are exposed to is usually watered down to virtually nothing. Children are capable of a lot more than most teachers give them credit for, but they need to be lovingly challenged.


message 400: by Everyman (new)

Everyman | 2592 comments Jan wrote: "However my grandfather encouraged me in reading, giving me a book every birthday and Christmas. He gave me Tom Sawyer for my eighth birthday."

Good for him! If every parent and grandparent gave books as presents at birthdays and Christmases, and then made much fuss over them, our children would do much better. My younger grandchildren just had their one year old birthdays in the past two weeks, and books and manipulative non-electronic toys were the primary presents (and, of course, clothes -- boy, do they grow fast!)


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The Readers Review: Literature from 1800 to 1910

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Books mentioned in this topic

Heart of Darkness (other topics)
Tess of the D'Urbervilles (other topics)
Bel Canto (other topics)
Dictionary of Insulting Quotations (other topics)
Gulliver's Travels (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic

Ann Patchett (other topics)
Bruce Chilton (other topics)
John Irving (other topics)
Jack L. Chalker (other topics)
Paul Gilding (other topics)
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