The Brothers Karamazov
discussion
The Greatest Novel Ever Written
I haven't read it yet, but I want to. It's very high up on my to-read list. I just finished Anna Karenina, and before that Crime and Punishment. Time for a little break from the big books, with some easier quick reads then I'm going to dive into TBK. It's one I'm super eager to read, just need the right time to do it.
Yup. It`s been on the top of my list as well for 44 years. Occasionally, AS I LAY DYING sits there alongside, but, yes.
I just love Dostoevsky so much and this book I consider a reflection of his divine intelligence...truly profound and utterly thought provoking...one of my most favorite books of ALL TIME!!!
Moon wrote: "The translation of Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky is highly recommended."Agreed
I don't know if its greatest novel ever written but it may be the greatest Russian novel that surpasses War and Peace. Its amazing that this is only the first part of epic, imagine if Dostoyevsky didn't die and what we would have gotten.
Freud said that Dostoevsky was the greatest psychologist of his time and Nietzsche said that he had the greatest self knowledge of anyone. And Vonnegut is right: The Brothers Karamazov has everything: it has all major, important elements of life, presented with passion.Mohammed: The one thing that relaxes me about him not getting to continue with the epic that this novel was supposed to start, is reminding myself the end to The Brothers Karamazov (with Alexi speaking at the funeral to the children), and how that corresponds with some of the ongoing themes of existence that Alexi speaks of. It almost makes it better that Dostoevsky didn’t finish the epic if you think of it that way.
very true that The Brothers Karamazov has almost every element of life, but i still am thankful that Dostoevsky wrote Crime and Punishment.
I would like to think that this book is the greatest novel ever written. It has everything, whereas a great book like Crime and Punishment deals only with guilt. I think it has all about life as Vonnegut put it. But let's discuss something in particular about the book. Let's talk about the Grand Inquisitor. What do you think about it?...do you believe that this is what Jesus meant when we answered the devil or you just think that it's Dostoevsky who interpreted it that, when another author could've done it differently?..what do you think?
Carlo, I can't help but relate the Grand Inquisitor with that of Tolstoy's The Kingdom of God is Within You. Both books would like to convey the same message. The invisible power that commands the whole cosmos(whom most of us refer to as "God") seems to choose to remain indifferent to our existence, to the sufferings that envelop the world and to the chaos that seems to gnaw within us all. This idea is alluded by Dostoevsky through Jesus' silent response to the inquisitor's harangue. That in spite of all the reasonable arguments presented by the inquisitor, Jesus chooses to remain quiet, not to say a word at all, but at the same time, Jesus' silence also symbolizes forgiveness, acceptance and nonviolence, of utter submission to the Divine Will without complaint, of completely understanding without knowing everything, for it is true that faith begins where reason ends and to be able to understand all, one should be able to forgive all. That's why Alyosha still finds the "poem" very Christian for it holds the very core of Jesus' teaching.
The inquisitor represents Ivan's own views, which merely suggest that he does not believe in a silent God or in a God who abandons His people, which in turn also represent the views of the unbelievers. This I believe is the same predicament most atheists would find themselves. It's a simple form of rebellion, where they defy the Divine's benign indifference but in truth, are also searching to find answers for the eternal truth.
Some will say one of the two Dostoevsky novels that usually end up in this discussion(Crime and Punishment, The Brothers Karamazov), some will say Don Quixote, or throw out one of Tolstoy's tomes. I'm going to be a little bit of a rebel and say Oliver Twist, but The Brothers Karamazov is a very close second.
Moon, I always relate Dostoevsky to Tolstoy. Maybe the sole difference between the two is their views regarding the church. I agree completely with you about Jesus and nonviolence. His silence represents forgiveness and meekness. The question is are those views right and can we live by them in this "brave new world"? I always try to ask myself this question because I want to live like that but it is technically unsupportable. What do you think?
Timothy, can you summarize why you have chosen oliver twist? I just didn't read that and want to have some idea about it.
Carlo wrote: "Timothy, can you summarize why you have chosen Oliver Twist? I just didn't read that and want to have some idea about it."It was the most enjoyable reading experience I've had in my adult life.
The social commentary regarding the orphans trapped with Oliver inside the workhouse/orphanage/slave labor quarters was some of the most bleakest material I've ever read. And the condition of the children of the streets, that are exploited by the likes of Fagin for personal profit hits us hard in the gut as to the condition of England's poor underclass in he early 19th century. Of course Dickens uses humor to lighten the mood and soften some of the harshness of the antagonists that Oliver meets in these settings, but still the language and the description of those streets by Dickens was brilliant.
And even as implausible as it most likely was/is, the happy ending that is given to Oliver may seem to some to be cheap and an easy way out used by Dickens to cheer us all up by the end, it does exactly that. And it never seemed to cheap to me.
The Brothers Karamazov is probably one of my favorite books ever. I read it because I liked Crime and Punishment, which eventually turned me into a Dostoevsky fan. The Idiot however is one book of his I am never able to finish...
Carlo wrote: "Moon, I always relate Dostoevsky to Tolstoy. Maybe the sole difference between the two is their views regarding the church. I agree completely with you about Jesus and nonviolence. His silence re..."
Hi Carlo!
Have you read Anna Karenina? I can basically relate to the character of Konstantin Levin.
He was an atheist in the beginning, full of doubts as he tried to seek for answers by logical reasoning to the eternal truth but eventually understood it the without a concrete answer. Somehow he just surrendered...surrendered to the Invisible Power.
The "brave new world" as you put it, does not need bravery to counteract the hands of destiny. As you surrender, you will attain peace and as you attain peace, you gain understanding. What I would like to say is "the desire to be good" is good enough for it sets you on the right path. Whatever happens in your life, you just always align it to the Divine Will by "being good."
Carlo wrote: "Moon, I always relate Dostoevsky to Tolstoy. Maybe the sole difference between the two is their views regarding the church.
I agree completely with you about Jesus and nonviolence. His silence re..."
It is impossible to live like that without Jesus, you are right.
I agree completely with you about Jesus and nonviolence. His silence re..."
It is impossible to live like that without Jesus, you are right.
Moon. I didn't read neither Anna Karenina yet. I fully agree that the answer is not a concrete classic answer.
Sonia. Can you clarify more about how can anyone live like that? I maen why it's not possible without Jesus.
I just finished the book yesterday, I had started it last year, but abandoned it after 200 pages because I had so many other things to read. I picked it back up a couple of weeks ago and I'm just done with it. I had heard of its reputation as "the best novel written" and understandably I was quite skeptical of that claim.But... Wow! What a freaking book. I can't even begin to compliment it because it will never end.
A word about the chapters - I know that "Rebellion" and "The Grand Inquisitor" are considered the greatest chapters in the book, and are read separately sometimes. But in my opinion, though those two are amazing, the best chapter is "The Devil: Ivan's Nightmare". When Ivan hallucinates the devil and talks with him. Throughout the book I identified quite a lot with Ivan, as I'm sure many people did.
One questions - commonly people say that the title refers to the THREE brothers Karamazov - Mitya, Ivan, and Alyosha. But don't you think it refers to FOUR? Why do people forget Smedyakov so easily?
Simon said: commonly people say that the title refers to the THREE brothers Karamazov - Mitya, Ivan, and Alyosha. But don't you think it refers to FOUR? Why do people forget Smedyakov so easily?I think the title refers to all the brothers i.e. Ivan, Mitya, Alyosha and Smerdyakov. Excluding Smerdy will make the title incomplete. He carries the blood of Karamazov, which is a thing D considers crucial.
I reread this for only the 2nd and last time in my life last summer. The fact that the author wrote it in the time in Russia was amazing. If Lenin and Stalin would not have come into power, think of all the amazing works that would have come out of that country. absolutely amazing
Just finished it. Took me a good 6 months of reading it in spurts, although read the last third in the last 2 weeks. I had previously thought "Crime and Punishment" to be my favorite, but this is so much deeper, so much move involved. Amazing.
Agreed. Crime and Punishment, though a great novel, deals only with one aspect in life, i.e. guilt. BK deals with more than one aspect, and all of them are seriously important in life.
Simon wrote: "I just finished the book yesterday, I had started it last year, but abandoned it after 200 pages because I had so many other things to read. I picked it back up a couple of weeks ago and I'm just d..."In answer to why we sometimes forget to count Smerdyakov as one of The Brothers Karamazov: People weren't sure if Smerdyakov was actually Fyodor's son. We all suspect it, but no one's really sure. I think that negligence adds to his character because he is often times not listed as a brother by the readers, let alone the other characters. And Smerdyakov can be as nasty as he wants back.
Yes, Dostoyevsky is a genius! Even though there are a million character in each of his books, I know them personally and can relate to them. This book, by far, has the most characters, but also is also the most intimate. I will read Crime and Punishment more times than this one, but I will give The Brother Karamozov it's rightful trophy of being the best written novel ever!
Dostoevsky is my favorite author, and TBK is my favorite novel, although I love Notes from The Underground almost as much.I read the Andrew McAndrews translation. I can't compare it to any others as I haven't read the others. I know my professor, who teaches a major author's course in Dostoevky, prefers other translations to the P & V.
I am so very glad this message thread has been posted. For most of my life I have considered BK to be the greatest of all books and it`s so very good to hear from so many out there who recognize the novel`s emotional depth. This is the real McCoy!
My friend Rick often comments on how a great writer could write about an incredibly boring subject, say the chair you're sitting on, and it would be enthralling. Dostoevsky maybe the best example of this type of writing. Remember the scene from Crime and Punishment, where Raskolnikov is invited to dinner with Pyotr Petrovich Luzhin, his sister's fiancee, and all they do is glare at each other? I'm not sure the Graveyard scene at the end of Harry potter 4 was any more intense, and all the C&P characters were doing was having dinner.
It took a while, but The Brothers Karamazov captured my attention with a completeness that few other books have been able to match. I truly cared about Alyosha and his well being and happiness. It is very rare that I care so much about a fictional character.
I never really got it going with this book. Our professor almost made us read it at gun-point, so I've always had a sort of disliking with the book when I crammed it for a couple of days.
I am currently reading this book, although it is a very huge book, I am coming along in my reading. I can almost sense the tension in the air between Dimitri and Pyotr. And he arrived late to the dinner. How rude.
I beg to differ, as enjoyable a read as Karamazov is, I believe Les Miserable is far more powerful piece of fiction, and in my humble view, the greatest novel ever written.
Lev_Boy wrote: "I beg to differ, as enjoyable a read as Karamazov is, I believe Les Miserable is far more powerful piece of fiction, and in my humble view, the greatest novel ever written."I agree--I enjoyed Les Miserables more than The Brothers Karamazov. But something about The Brothers Karamazov engrossed me completely (I usually flounder when trying to read long books). I enjoyed the characters and how unique each one was from the other and Dostoevesky's brilliant writing style. Some of the scenes left me speechless =) I finished the book in about three days and fully intend to go back and read it again! If not THE greatest novel of all time, The Brothers Karamazov is certainly close.
Elisabeth wrote: "Lev_Boy wrote: "I beg to differ, as enjoyable a read as Karamazov is, I believe Les Miserable is far more powerful piece of fiction, and in my humble view, the greatest novel ever written."I agre..."
Well, perhaps I ought to give Karamazov another try. I read Karamazov when I was 18 and read Les Miserables a decade later.
Perhaps reading it now could be like reading it all over again. :)
Well, hats off to you, becoz I could never for the life of me ever read a book twice. No matter how much I enjoyed it the first time.
I love the Brothers Karamazov. I read it twice as I had to write a 40pg paper on it. The first time I didn't like it, but the second time WOW! Just incredible. It is the number one book on my list of best novels ever.
I`ve read AS I LAY DYING twice. Faulkner`s intent is so dense that it requires reading at least twice. I`ve also slogged through ULYSSES twice, although I have cheated both times by skipping several passages, especially Molly and Leopold`s 69 sleep on the couch.Other books I`ve read twice
THE WHEEL ON THE SCHOOLHOUSE
GREEN EGGS AND HAM
WRINKLE IN TIME
TESS
GREAT EXPECTATIONS
CHRISTMAS CAROL
WESSEX TALES
THE GRAPES OF WRATH
HEMINGWAYS first collection of short stories
LOR
HOBBIT
I have not regretted rereading any of these and would gladly do again.
I wouldn't say it's the greatest, but it definitely is in the top 10. I recently re-read it for the first time since grad school, where I plodded through it in the original Russian. It is definitely one of the books that is much better the second time around. I notice symmetries which escaped me the first time. And, knowing that Dostoevsky deliberately chose a narrative style which reflected specific characterizations impressed upon me the scale of his genius.
i think what is most amazing about this books is the complex of the humen nature in these characters! how much they are different even though they all have the same blood going through their veins, the plot is very appealing you just can't stop thinking about it, its brilliant merely BRILLIANT.
Exactly what I think, Noura. Yes, there is a depth and complexity to their psyches, that I am hard pressed to cite matched by any other novel.
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