The Wise Man's Fear (The Kingkiller Chronicle, #2) The Wise Man's Fear discussion


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message 1: by [deleted user] (new)

I'm really just testing this, sorry to annoy anyone.


Tracey i have just started it. he is still at the university, so just getting into the story. looks like you liked it?
i loved the first one


Melissa Dee I loved it!


Matthew The first one was good, but this one slightly down-graded. Still really good, though.


Tracey Matthew wrote: "The first one was good, but this one slightly down-graded. Still really good, though."


yeah that was what I was thinking


Kristin F. Würgler I really liked this book. My only complaint is that it took so long to publish. I sure hope we won't have to wait four/five years for the third instalment :/


Lydia I loved them both! I don't understand why people haven't enjoyed the 2nd book as much? I would love the publishing to be a lot shorter, but i think its worth it for a good book?


Monkey I found the book so bad that stopped reading it.
I guess that means I liked the first one better, because I finished it and started on the second one


Kristin F. Würgler but it didn't take that long to write it. It took them forever to release the thing due to some publishing mumbo jumbo. I forget the details. Kinda sucks that you have to read the first book all over again, because by the time nr2 comes out, you can't properly remember what the flip it was about.


Megan Freckleface79 wrote: "but it didn't take that long to write it. It took them forever to release the thing due to some publishing mumbo jumbo. I forget the details. Kinda sucks that you have to read the first book all ov..."

That's exactly what I did!


Caroline I loved the first one... this one I severely disliked. Kvothe became such an immature little boy.


Tanner Rothfuss writes well and can spin a good (albeit cliched) story and he certainly did so in the first book ;however, his sophomore try was irritating. He lost all momentum he had going from his first book. If I could best describe this book, I would call it a "filler episode."


Shawn Wilson I'm currently infatuated with this series and I loved the second book as much as the first. I like his attention to the idea of telling stories and how they effect truth. I also haven't laughed out loud at a book as much as I did with this one. Some of the Elodin sections and the clever dialogue throughout kept it funny and interesting. The only thing that bothered me was the short description of the apparently long trip to see the Maer. But it's a small complaint for a rather great book.


Rebecca Loved both books and can't wait for the third, yet I fear it will take him/publishers forever. Gimmie now!!


message 15: by Josh (new) - rated it 5 stars

Josh I think the biggest difference between the 1st and 2nd book was *SPOILER* the amount of sex Kvothe had. It was crazy! He went from being a shy and slightly socially awkward young man to banging everything with two legs and female genitalia. I didn't necessarily appreciate the change because I felt it soiled the relationship between himself and Deena. It was king of like Forest Gump in so far as no matter where she went or what she did he loved her unconditionally. But the change away from that ruined a huge dynamic of the book.


Megan I dunno. I felt sorry for him in the first book. Here he is, obviously in love with this unattainable girl and she's flitting around with everyone BUT him. Yet he still chased after her and even though she obviously enjoys his company she feels the need to dissapear without notice and then pop back into his life weeks down the road. I was glad he finally "got some." No body likes a man who's so whipped he stops living his life, all because the girl he wants can't seem to make up her mind.


Linda I have to admit when I started reading the second book I too was disappointed for some reason, that I couldn't put my finger on, and I promptly stopped reading it for a while. I then picked it up again later as I wanted something to read and as I got further into the story I found that I liked it more and more to the point where I couldn't put it down and before I knew it it was over. I can't wait for the next book and I hope it comes out sooner than later. Though I can see myself rereading both books while waiting for the third.


Nelly Shawn wrote: "I'm currently infatuated with this series and I loved the second book as much as the first. I like his attention to the idea of telling stories and how they effect truth. I also haven't laughed out..."

I completely agree with you on all counts. I too am infatuated with the series and loved both books. The writing is sophisticated and beautiful and both it and the storytelling transcend the fantasy genre. I was also a tiny bit disappointed in the short treatment of the long voyage, but am totally willing to forgive that. Rothfuss is a great writer. He is also so humble (check out his blog) which is very refreshing.


Elizabeth I picked up the first book while on a business trip (to read on the flight home). I could not get into it so I put it down. A few months later on a rainy weekend afternoon, I picked it up again and started over. Time flew by; I got sucked into the story from the beginning this time. I (im)patiently waited for the second book and pre-ordered it for my Kindle (even though I knew I would get a hardback copy too!). I started reading it the day it came out and lost most of that week's evenings and the weekend to the story. SPOILER ALERT: I would have preferred more detail about his work at the university and found the entire episode with Felurian, while it gave background for Bast, did not move the story along as much as just give time for Kvothe to have lots of sex. I also kept looking for a bit of the vulnerability he had in the first book; even if it was hidden it would be nice to continue that. Regardless, I am now (im)patiently waiting on the next installment!


message 20: by Danielle (last edited Aug 21, 2011 11:16PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Danielle Tanner wrote: "Rothfuss writes well and can spin a good (albeit cliched) story and he certainly did so in the first book ;however, his sophomore try was irritating. He lost all momentum he had going from his fir..."

Most sequels in a trilogy tend to be fillers regardless of whether it happens to be a novel or a movie. It is what it is.
I loved this book. One of my major loves of the first book was the way in which the music was described. Whenever he was about to play his lute, I was giddy. If there had been more of that, I would definitely be happier. Also, Kvothe's time among the Adem and learning about the Lethani had me enthralled. I cannot wait for the next book.


Bridget R. The stuff with Felurian didn't bother me because it wasn't graphic. If those scenes had been written in detail, I would have been uncomfortable reading the book.


message 22: by Tony (new) - rated it 4 stars

Tony i really liked this book, but i have to say i loved the 1st book. while reading this i didn't think i liked it... i got board while in the fae & and the trip to the mear was pointless kinda. i want more of "The Seven" anyways as soon as i finished this book i wanted more. I read these book back to back so the full story was fresh in my head... so i really like this story but the 2nd book, things seemed rushed


Becky I loved both books absolutely. The second book took me a while to "get into" mainly because it had been so long after finishing the first one. I enjoy a fantasy book that isn't written for young adults (although those can be excellent, too) so the sex was fine. I haven't had so much fun reading this genre since the "Tales of the Otori". Way to go, Patrick - keep 'em coming.


message 24: by Abby (new) - rated it 4 stars

Abby Josh wrote: "I think the biggest difference between the 1st and 2nd book was *SPOILER* the amount of sex Kvothe had. It was crazy! He went from being a shy and slightly socially awkward young man to banging eve..."

SPOILERS: I completely agree with you Josh. That was one of my Biggest problems with the book. And it's not like some people are saying.. that they are adults and so they can handle sex just fine. Sure I can handle it, but I don't have to like it. It definitely ruined something he had with Denna. It was one of the things that made Kvothe more honorable than her and it added to the story. And it was not just a couple of times. I'd say that a good third of the book was about him fooling around in the forest with some elf queen, and then just having sex with any random girl after that. It took away from the book. I look forward to the third-hoping it will make up for things.


message 25: by Will (new) - rated it 5 stars

Will Burns Abby wrote: "Josh wrote: "I think the biggest difference between the 1st and 2nd book was *SPOILER* the amount of sex Kvothe had. It was crazy! He went from being a shy and slightly socially awkward young man t..."

For me the fact that he was unfaithful to Denna was extremely humanizing. It helped with turning Kvothe from the wonder kid who can do anything to a real person. But I guess the whole series is about that.


message 26: by Tony (new) - rated it 4 stars

Tony Why is so many having a hard time with Kvothe having sex behind Denna's back. OK i agree that he went a bit overboard... he went from knowing nothing about talking to woman to being a PIMP. I didn't like that ether, took me out of the story kinda but no biggie really. i'm a guy and an adult and it was done well i think. BUT Denna?!?!? Really??? She leads him on. she tells him nothing and makes he so scared to even ask her about things. this girl is Trouble. She runs around town with all kinds of guys and she gets mad at Kvothe for having a little fun. Hes always walking on egg shells around her. i love this story but i say Kvothe is headed for allot of trouble and heartache from this she banshee. lol i love to hate her .


message 27: by Ram (new) - rated it 3 stars

Ram My problem with this book was very simple: it was about 600 pages too long. There is nowhere near enough content to justify its length.

The entire Felurian episode was completely unnecessary. It read like a short story Rothfuss had written once upon a time and decided to somehow insert into this book. In addition, about 90% of his time with the Maer should have been edited out.

What really gets me, though, is that Rothfuss not only published a 1000 page book where hardly anything happens. It's the way he thumbs his nose at the reader about it. The way he treated both the trial in the early going and the whole shipwreck sequence - basically "Oh yeah, lots of stuff happened, but I'm not going to talk about it. Instead, here's another 100 pages of meaningless dialogue. Enjoy!".

I still liked the book - Rothfuss can definitely write. But it doesn't approach the level of NotW. Hopefully, this is just another case of an author following up a great debut with a weaker effort before recapturing the magic. A sophomore slump, if you will. I'd hate for this to be Ender's Game + the sequels all over again.


Becky Abby wrote: "Josh wrote: "I think the biggest difference between the 1st and 2nd book was *SPOILER* the amount of sex Kvothe had. It was crazy! He went from being a shy and slightly socially awkward young man t..."

Kind of like a "real boy"? : )


message 29: by Abby (last edited Oct 13, 2011 10:19AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Abby Becky, in our corrupt society, it's very typical to assume that everyone thinks its okay to shamelessly have sex with any random stranger. In addition, there's a huge pressure for young men to have sex in order to be a "real boy" as you say. However, having sex with random women is no mark of true manhood.


Becky So serious...I was merely commenting that the behavior presented by Kvothe is very much commonplace in our society. I certainly don't want to use this forum to get into an argument about our current social mores.


message 31: by Abby (new) - rated it 4 stars

Abby I took your comment as a sort of sarcastic message that Kvothe's behavior was how real/average men behave. Sorry to be touchy--I found that insulting to the real (and moral) men that I know.

As to an argument, nor do I. There's really no way to argue against these sorts of behaviors unless there's some deeper moral base a person is building off of.


message 32: by Doug (last edited Oct 16, 2011 03:00AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Doug S. I don't see how the bit with the elven queen was bad. To be honest, I think it was a good enough way to introduce Kvothe to the world of the elves. We already know that he's just as famous in their world as he is in his own. The legend has to start somewhere.

I didn't realize people had such an issue with the sex. While I'm not sure it was strictly necessary I also don't think it harmed the story. It may have harmed your personal views of Kvothe but that's also one of the things I like most about the books. I don't like things about Kvothe. I constantly think he's doing something rather stupid despite his intelligence. But I like that. I don't want to read a story about the perfect hero. Perfect heros are boring. Antiheroes are so much more human.

Oh, and as a point of fact, when you're a teenage male it's not so much that everyone pressures you to have sex to be a "real man" (no one actually believes that, it's far too cliché) but rather that every fiber of your being is telling you that maybe girls aren't so icky and who ever died from cooties anyway?


message 33: by Josh (new) - rated it 5 stars

Josh A lot of people in this thread are looking at the book's sexual aspect from the point of asking why it was offensive or problematic. It wouldn't have been an issue had it occurred with any of the other characters. I think it just took away from what made Kvothe the character he was. He devoted all those trips to Imre just to look for Denna even though there was implied probable chemistry between him and Fela, Devi, and very possibly Mola.

One could say he's whipped but it's just as arguable that he's devoted and madly in love with her, enough to pursue her with an unwavering and single minded determination.

It's sad that he decides that she's not worth waiting for, not worth fighting for. It devalues her and changes the aspect of their relationship dynamic.
It's just that the reader is led to expect better from him based on his previous exploits and characterizations. It changes a major aspect of the character. It'd be like Frodo having his difficulties bearing the ring in the first LoTR book and suddenly not having any problems with it in the Two Towers.

I just think I'd have enjoyed the book more if it had kept that facet. How much more would his reputation be inflated by the fact that he turned down the offer of casual sex from the most famed sex icon to Fae or Man in order to stay true to the woman he loves? There was, again in my own opinion which you as the reader are not obligated to agree with, far more potential in that possibility.

In a way I felt it just sullied what might have been.


Sabrina Flynn Rothfuss can write certain parts very well and the parts with Elodin are just awesome. I wish the whole series was about him. But Denna is the most annoying love interest I've read come across. What does Kvothe see in her aside from not being able to figure out her real name? I did not care for the second book at all, but will read the third, just to read about Denna's much hinted at death.

It wasn't about the all the sex with the sex goddess that Kvothe had in the second book that made me dislike the book, but rather, how it was written. It was like he was getting an uber special Kung Fu class in how to have sex and learning all these super secret techniques to Wow females everywhere with 'twinning vine on swaying tree' and 'one thousand fluttering kisses'. It was comically written compared to the main storyline.


Corbin When did having a lot of sex become a bad thing? It's not for me or you to say whether what Kvothe does is moral or immoral. It's irrelevant. This is his story and it's in a fantasy world. Their ideas of sexuality are different--including homosexuality and bisexuality which they briefly talked about in the first book. These things might be a reflection of what Rothfuss feels about these things. Overall, his sexual encounters don't detract from anything. It's humanizing if anything. Denna sure gets around too. Why should Kvothe wait up for her? She won't do the same for him. She's always with men. Plus, It's freaking Felurian--she makes men mad with desire. Of course Kvothe is going to cavort with her. Kvothe is not one to miss out on an opportunity to learn and make awesome memories.

That's my two cents.

Can't wait for the third book!


message 36: by Doug (new) - rated it 5 stars

Doug S. Do butcher a quote by George R.R. Martin, bury an axe in someone's head and describe it in horrible detail and people applaud. Follow that by a tender love seen and people curse you.

Sex is part of life and a good story is about life, the good and the bad.

As for how it was presented... Yeah. Exactly. No, you got it. She's explicitly teaching him tantric arts for that exact purpose, the very reason she's letting him leave at all. It's actually made quite clear. Not sure what you missed there.

As for Denna, as someone who's spent more time than he will admit chasing the wrong girl, the fact that you say it makes no sense is why it makes sense. It's not about logic. That sort of thing never is. It's about one or two little things that can make you overlook everything else. For Kvothe, it's her mystery and her music.


Sabrina Flynn Doug wrote: "Do butcher a quote by George R.R. Martin, bury an axe in someone's head and describe it in horrible detail and people applaud. Follow that by a tender love seen and people curse you.

Sex is part o..."


But that's just it... the love scenes weren't tender and they weren't even erotic, though I did think the very first time he encountered her in the woods was pretty hot, but after that the whole book went downhill IMO. It felt like a teenager with a Playboy magazine wrote the scenes.

And yeah, I got that she was teaching him how to be an awesome sex god, which would have made perfect sense to me if he was training to be a male prostitute...but in the context, I didn't think it worked.


message 38: by Josh (new) - rated it 5 stars

Josh I agree with Sabrina, it didn't feel relevant to his tale, it almost could've been a dream sequence save for the shaed.
-
Also, to Corbin, I point out that every book is read within a context. As this one is (at least originally and primarily) English and read by an audience of or originating from Western Europe, cultural context through which the book is viewed is mainly that of a Judeo-Christian society. Through said lens there are general opinions regarding what is both right and wrong from a moral standpoint. In accordance with Judeo-Christianity, sex is an intimate connection between a man and woman, usually married. Sexual promiscuity is culturally regarded as a negative attribute.
If there were no true compass in the matter, who is to say (*SPOILER ALERT*) that the fake Edema Ruh who absconded with those two girls for the purpose of sex slavery were wrong? Slavery, rape, and kidnapping are cultural taboos in modern Judeo-Christian society and the author uses the fact that his audience agrees with the accepted norm that such acts are heinous in order to exonerate Kvothe from the killings of the fake Edema Ruh.


message 39: by Doug (last edited Aug 31, 2012 08:50AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Doug S. Most cultures eventually ban slavery and kidnapping is rarely seen as a good thing. There are some outlying cultures (mostly nomadic) where it's a common practice, but it's kind of rare and even then it was never considered good. As for rape, I can't think of a single society where rape was considered a moral and acceptable act. It's pretty much always been repugnant.

As for the context not working, which was that? He meets a tantric sex goddess who normally kills her victims. He convinces her to let him go because he's a bard and bards sing the glory of their subjects. She likes the idea but decides it's not enough, that he must also be the greatest lover. Why? Because that's who she is. She's also prideful (which is why the trick works) and won't risk anyone spreading tales of her that aren't up to her expectations.

Makes complete sense.


Corbin First, I wouldn't put Kvothe having sex with Felurian on the same level as the fake Edema Ruh raping the two girls. Not in a million years. Next, Judeo Christian doctrine has no place in this books world or in judging Kvothe. It's irrelevant and off topic. You are judging the book and the books main character when you look through the lens of a religion outside of the book--as much as that religion may be important to your personal life. You have to detach from you personal biases and view the book within its own context like you said. Rape is wrong and taboo in their world. Having only one sexual partner for your whole life is another thing. For Edema Ruh, or broadly in their world, there seems to be nothing wrong with free sexuality. Either way, it's not very important to the flow and arch of the book. This scene is just another that builds the amazing character of Kvothe.


Sabrina Flynn Doug wrote:As for the context not working, which was that? He meets a tantric sex goddess who normally kills her victims. He convinces her to let him go because he's a bard and bards sing the glory of their subjects. She likes the idea but decides it's not enough, that he must also be the greatest lover. Why? Because that's who she is. She's also prideful (which is why the trick works) and won't risk anyone spreading tales of her that aren't up to her expectations.

But it was the way in which it was presented for me. He got training from a tantric sex goddess and then when he escaped suddenly women were throwing themselves at him. It's like some nerdy kid read a Cosmo magazine and learned the secrets of sex and now he's the most interesting man in the world. Sorry, it was just hilarious, and after those chapters, every time I pictured Kvothe, I saw Fabio with a wind machine blowing his hair...

The events in the Fae world were interesting enough with the cloak and the tree. Turning Kvothe into a tantric sex expert was eye rolling, and I actually looked up the author's bio to see if he was a 20 year old kid living in his mom's basement.


message 42: by Doug (new) - rated it 5 stars

Doug S. Or, think about who's telling the story. You kind of get hints throughout the first book (and into the second) that there are girls around him who have crushes on him. He's just oblivious because a) he's a teenage male and b) he has eyes for someone else.

I always go the impression that Kvothe was rather striking in appearance, if not handsome. He'd also be in good shape and he's definitely a charmer. So women are going to show interest in him by default, whether he returns it or not.

Now what happens when you take his default state and make it so he not only notices these things but knows what to do about them? Add to that the fact that he's just gone through months of training and now has an opportunity to test his skills?

Again, makes complete sense.


Sabrina Flynn Doug wrote: he's just gone through months of training

I can't even read, or think about this without cracking up laughing. The 16 year old kid had to go to a class to learn how to have awesome sex. I suppose if his music and magic gig ever falls through he can always become a male escort.


message 44: by Eric (last edited Aug 31, 2012 12:49PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Eric Josh wrote: "I agree with Sabrina, it didn't feel relevant to his tale, it almost could've been a dream sequence save for the shaed.
-
Also, to Corbin, I point out that every book is read within a context. As t..."


I disagree. There are huge pieces of information shared. Felurian reveals she existed before the Fae, gives another story of the moon, tells Kvothe how to enter/leave Fae at will, educates him on Grammarie and Glamourie, and quite a few other things. Kvothe meets the Cthaeh, learns new magic, and ultimately becomes a different person for the experience. Kvothe would not be who he is if not for his time in the Fae.

His sexual prowess upon returning is important because it greatly upsets Denna.

Most of what I'm seeing is a lot of female readers that didn't like how the sex was presented, and I can respect that. The way men and women think about sex is quite different, and we enjoy different aspects of it more or less. What's more, this was a young Kvothe's first time with sex and his partner may as well have been the Goddess of sexuality. He's like a kid in a candy store.

But for all that, as a man, I wouldn't want to read 50 Shades of Grey.


Sabrina Flynn Oh, don't get me started on 50 Shades. I'm not even sure how anyone can make it past the first page in that book.

Eric, I see what you're saying, but I don't think my issue is a male vs female thing. I was perfectly fine with Kvothe spotting a hot woman in the middle of the woods and chasing after her like a stallion after a filly in heat. That was cool, and it was cool because Rothfuss described it. Imagine if he took that same scene and wrote that Kvothe performed the Tiger conquering Gazelle technique.

That's my issue with the whole Felurian chapter. I think Rothfuss is a great writer. The world building is great, some of his chapters are amazing, and because of that I expect more from him. He didn't need to use terms like, 'a thousand fluttering kisses' and put so much emphasis on Kvothe learning how to have sex. He could have just had him have a lot of sex and then made him not turn beet red whenever a woman talked with him.

Turning it into some sort of special SexFu training that would allow him to blow any woman's pants off just made it comical.


message 46: by Eric (new) - rated it 5 stars

Eric Ha, I see what you're saying. You're right, it was kind of absurd.


message 47: by Doug (new) - rated it 5 stars

Doug S. You both know this is something actually done in tantric arts, right? Sexual positions often have names so it's not exactly strange that they would in the story, either. Heck, we have names for plenty of them still.


Sabrina Flynn Doug wrote: "You both know this is something actually done in tantric arts, right? Sexual positions often have names so it's not exactly strange that they would in the story, either. Heck, we have names for ple..."

I realize this, but I find these euphemisms annoying in any book I read. For example: a writer who goes into minute detail while describing a woman's dress or a man's fancy coat, but when it comes to the big fight scenes... the one that the entire book is leading up to, he reverts to using sentences like 'bending crane' meets 'whirlwind's fury' (thank you Robert Jordan).

I feel like Rothfuss did exactly this, which seemed completely jarring to me since I know he can write some pretty amazing stuff. The whole thing read like a bad porno premise: awkward boy meets sex goddess and is transformed into Lord of the Sex to unleash his might on womankind. Only instead of showing the good stuff, they cut to scenes of pretty vines curling around a branch or butterflies fluttering over water.


message 49: by Cate (new) - rated it 3 stars

Cate I loved the first book and, like many others have said, the second in a trilogy is usually the filler, so I am hoping this trilogy closes out on as high a note as it started.


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