So I just finished the original The Wonderful Wizard of Oz book and while I had read it before, I can't believe how much I forgot!

May have musical spoilers...



What is really interesting is that both this book and the musical took so much from the original, even if they took different parts. Like, in this book, all the names of the different people (Quadlings, Winkies, etc.) come from the original story. And like the musical, the tin woodman originally was a human man.

But what I also thought interesting was that the winged monkeys were just magical creatures in the original and not scary at all. Except, I'm sure the people of Oz found them scary because they were under the control of the Wicked Witch, which she eventually lost. So I find it interesting that Hollywood would take this story and make into a "scary" movie and that Macguire would make them some sort of scientific experiment of Elba's.

If you haven't read the original, you should. It's short. Baum wrote this in the attempts to modernize the concept of a fairy tale, so it really is a true YA book.

Just finished this book! I really enjoyed this new approach to the story of OZ. I found it a little interesting that characters weren't more put off by Elphaba's color. They seemed to notice and then didn't think anything else about it. But maybe that's because it's OZ and there are a lot of strange things there.

I wish we could've read more about Elphaba's childhood... this might've help me decide if she became evil or was born evil. She seemed to always want to do good but held such a grudge against society and people. She really seemed like she was trying to make a difference in society. And one thing I like about her was that she never turned on her beliefs. She could've helped her sister rule Munchinland and didn't bother.

I love how the Yellow Brick Road is portrayed in the book. I remember even reading that people were trying to pull it up. I didn't really like that part about the monkeys; I don't understand why was Elphaba trying to get wings on them? It was like she was experimenting on them. Thought that was not in her character. I thought the little orgy scene was weird as well. I still don't really get what that place was? A place where people get high? I don't know.

I loved reading about the years when Elphaba went to college. And how much of an effect the murder of the goat had on here. I really think that changed her entire life. I always thought that Boq would realize he and Elphaba should be together. I didn't expect it to be Fieryo. And who is this Yackle person? They appear 3 or 4 times in the novel. I looked that character up and read Yackle's story is more deeply explored in "A Lion Among Men," in which she is the secondary protagonist. I kinda wish we knew more about her in this book though. I am still confused by this character.

I always thought about the clock through the whole book. I thought eventually we were going to find out the reason Elphaba was green was because she was born in the clock.

I will be attending the Broadway show in Denver on the 10th of October and am real excited. This will be my first musical. I go to shows all the time but haven't been to a musical yet. The Wizard of OZ movie is going to be in Bluray for the first time this week!

THIN mints, by chance? Hahahahahahaha!

I had to stop myself from reading too many comments on Wicked, because I'm going to rebel and watch the musical first. In February. In New York. With my hubbie. Enjoying my favorite mints.

I used to LOVE Phantom (I'm a classical soprano who loves Broadway so the music is perfect for me) but I saw it 2 years ago in NYC for the fifth time and it was just awful. I think even the actors are sick of the show. There was no passion or energy.

Meghan, years ago I saw Phantom the day after I saw Les Miserables, both on Broadway. Definitely should have done it in the other order. After the emotional, spiritual, and musical journey of Les Mis, Phantom seemed pretty empty. It was spectacular, but it didn't involve my soul like Les Mis. And I'd known and like the Phantom music as well!

Oh, and apparently the name of Mara's new show is actually going to be Dancing in the Dark. I guess they've renamed it from The Band Wagon's most famous song.

I'm in!

I propose a Rory Gilmore book club field trip: Let's all go to New York and see Wicked (and others!) Pipe dream?

I think I tend to enjoy musicals more if I'm familiar with the songs beforehand. A friend of mine got me the Wicked soundtrack for my birthday. I enjoy the same songs Sarah mentioned, but it took me a while before I liked more than just "Dancing through Life." It took me several months to be able to listen to "For Good" without bursting into tears.

I haven't actually seen the musical yet, but I'm expecting to like it.

Try The Drowsy Chaperone or Curtains. Drowsy is closed on B'way now but it's touring. Curtains is playing still and David Hyde Pierce is committed through June.

Another show that will be coming out soon is The Bandwagon. It's based on the movie that starred Fred Astaire and Cyd Charisse so it will have a lot of old music as well as a few new tunes. (The music's by Alan Jay Lerner of Lerner and Lowe fame, the team that brought you My Fair Lady and Camelot.) My friend Mara Davi will be playing the Cyd Charisse part. It's going to do its out of town try-out in San Diego this spring and will hopefully move to Broadway in the fall.

LOL Shannon. You're not weird. You just know what you like!

And I agree. Wicked is definitely more "hollywood" than Annie or Fiddler. I think that's why I didn't enjoy Phantom of the Opera because I was distracted by all the "special effects" even though the music was decent.

I guess newer show whose songs are old-Broadway style. I guess I did like Popular. I dunno - I guess I'm weird.

Wow, the music is what I love about it! Songs like "Defying Gravity" and "For Good" and "As Long As You're Mine" and "I'm Not that Girl" and "Popular" and "Loathing" and "The Wizard and I" and "Dancing Through Life." Musically I think the show is amazing. The special effects and comedy are secondary to the music, IMO.

But what kind of recommendations do you want? Older shows you may not have seen? Or newer shows whose songs are very old-Broadway style?

Ok - I just saw the musical yesterday and I was really thinking I would like it. But.... and I know some people are going to hate me for this, I didn't really enjoy it that much. I guess I really didn't enjoy the music very much and that's my problem with a lot of musicals I guess.

I like a lot of old school musicals - Annie, Fiddler on the Roof, Oklahoma, the Sound of Music, and Guys and Dolls - because the music is great. Hey Sarah, maybe you can give me some recommendations that you think I may like based on the ones I do.

I did however really enjoy the Glenda character played by Katie Rose Clarke. She was excellent.

Musical is way better to me, but then again I LOVE MUSICALS

I love the honesty. I wouldn't have thought that I would have liked it, being pseudo-fantasy and all. It helped that I was reading it along with this group. It really enhances the experience. :)

I tried reading this book..I just couldn't get into it.

I just finished Wicked today. Laura, I totally agree with you about the book seeming totally different in the middle. I too did not care for the middle as much as the beginning and end. Based on this book and what I've read in this thread I think I'll steer clear of any other of Maguire's books. I would definitely see the musical if I ever get the chance.

I read Wicked Years ago, and I had mixed feelings about it. I thought in a way it was two different books with the begining and the end one book and the middle a different book. I didn't care for the middle of the book and it was hard to get past.
Now last year, I got to run spotlight for the Wicked Tour while it was here in Seattle, and I thought the show was great. It was fluffy but it really never deals with the complex politics that are in the middle of the book. I had the same difficulty with the other Maguire books that I have read, The Ugly Sister and Mirror, Mirror.

I can agree with that. It was just one of those books that you have to get a few chapters into before it gets really good (I'm basing this on what others who've actually finished it, save for my sister, have said).

I think some of it might have to do with the fact that my ability to actually take time to sit and read a book for pleasure reading has dwindled since high school because I no longer have a bus or car ride going to and from school to read during and I just don't really have AS much of an interest in sitting down and trying to read any more. Which really sucks because there are books I want to read and reread but I can't seem to actually start and finish them. Dunno if that's going to make any sense, but I think that's mostly the problem. The book didn't really pull me in and make me WANT to keep reading in the first few chapters, so it was harder for me to keep going.

I think that's the main reason I didn't like the book, actually. I saw (and had memorized) the musical first.

Danielle - I read Wicked before they even invented the musical and loved it for it's original take on a classic story. But after seeing the musical, I don't know how anyone could really appreciate the book as they are two totally different stories (even though the musical is loosely based on the book). So I'm thinking if you really love the musical, I'd just not really try the book unless you really want to. The book is very "deep" and intense and often depressing. Maguire likes to pontificate a lot so it's also very wordy. I love the book and hope that people like it too. But it's hard not to read it after seeing the musical and not compare the two.

The book and the musical are wildly different. It was hard for me to get past all the baby elphaba stuff too, but it does get better once she gets to Shiz. (Shizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)

I got the book for Christmas a few years ago but didn't get very far into it. It's very hard to get past the first few chapters. And then my mother got tickets for my birthday to go see the show on Broadway, and I fell in love with the music and the story the show presents. I listen and sing along to the music all the time, and I've seen the show twice now. My sister read the book and hasn't seen the show but she hated the book. I do want to try reading the book again at some point, but not anytime soon.

I'm feeling a bit wicked because I got a new computer and it actually works -- so well that I haven't figured it all out yet --- Merry Christmas to me and everyone who's been listening to me moan about my lousy computer.

Evil. Wicked. Seems appropriate to me -- aaaccckkkk -- I'm gone.

I am not even going to comment on fries because you're all evil for that whole thread. heh Course I think I'm the one who started it.

But back to Wicked. Just bought the Rogue Toothfairy by Maguire. It's actually a kid's story. Apparently he's written several children's stories. I thought that was interesting.

The Wizard of Oz is on TNT right now.

I had to go get the fries with bleu cheese and chili oil for lunch today. Yum.

How to describe brown sauce... Hmm... That's tough. Yummy. There. Just kidding... It's a malt vinegar base with fruits (dates, OJ, AJ, tomato paste, etc.), spices (onion, garlic, chili pepper, mustard powder, etc.), and molasses. Yes, I did have to look all that up. Just trust me, it's scrumptious! I mean I like vinegar-y things, though... but I have friends who aren't big vinegar people who really liked it when I had them try it. If I knew how to get it to you, Dottie, I'd buy some and send it to you! (We have a British food shop nearby.)

That gave me a laugh as well -- but back to that brown sauce -- what's brown sauce? Back in my teens in a small town in the not TOO Dark Ages we went to the local hangout for fries with GRAVY -- not brown sauce but gravy. Or chili or chili cheese or -- well -- no wonder I loved the frittes stands in Belgie.

I'm hungry now too but it's breakfast time and somehow I don't think I'll go out for fries.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Your observation was hysterical, Sarah... Literally at the moment I read it I was thinking how funny this conversation was going on in the Wicked thread (not minding it, just finding it funny) then I read your post and laughed out loud. Thanks for that!

But dang, I read this at the wrong time! Now I'm hungry again! I especially hate being hungry in the middle of the night because there is just no getting back to sleep until you do something about it.

I wish I had fries. Bother.

And also, can I just say that it is too funny that we're having this fry conversation in a thread called "wicked," as fries, are, indeed, a little wicked.

OOH... Alison. There is a restaurant near me that serves the Best Fries Ever. They are thinly sliced, but not as thin as shoestrings, and are drizzled with chili oil, sprinkled with chili flakes and parsely, and served over a pool of bleu cheese dressing. They make me drool.

Okay, Michele, you either got the "don't-start-exercising-until-you're-a-grown-up" gene, or there was some sort of mutation--probably due to pesticides or preservatives ;)

One of my best friends eats mayo on her fries, and I think it's completely gross :P

OK, this sounds crazy, but up north it's a popular condiment. It's actually called "fry sauce" and is used just as often as ketchup. Really easy, so you all have to try it once...
equal parts ketchup and mayo mixed together. Seriously, it's mysteriously good!

You people are not allowed to talk about food on GoodReads. We are getting way off course, and it's bad enough my lazy butt is sitting here on the computer all the time...what? now I'm going to be running around looking for the perfect french fries to go with my MAYONAISE! Cut it out! :>


And whoever brought up Blue Cheese mac and cheese should be banned from this site, b/c I love anything blue cheese related....wait a minute, what about french fries and blue cheese dressing?

I do mayo when it is French-style french fries (skinny, perfectly fried), and most especially when I'm at a bistro. I just randomly requested it one night as it suddenly sounded good. So bizarre! Otherwise my favorite thing on fries is brown sauce - a British thing. A YUMMY thing. I also enjoy (lots) malt vinegar when having fish & chips. Great. Now I'm craving brown sauce!

Yeah... 123 2nd Ave. For some reason I was thinking of the street number and not the avenue.
http://www.pommesfrites.ws/

hey sarah... it's on 2nd Ave. and it's amazing. love that place.

I've heard of that place and if I ever get back to NYC I'm planning to drop in and see how it is.

We have a local -- well, it's in Laguna Beach a few miles down the coast -- Belgian Bistro where we go when we need to "feel" we are back in Belgiuim. The owner is Belgian and so are at least part of the staff -- and the ambience and food are right on target. And they have a good number of Belgian beers though not the only one I got really attached to -- sigh.

If anyone goes to NYC, make sure you go to Pommes Frites on, I think, 102nd street in the Village. They have Belgian fries and like 30 different dipping sauces.

Sheesh -- I'd been searching for the mayo on fries commentaries -- forgot where I saw it.

Living in Belgium for five years switched me to mayo on fries -- er -- frittes. Mayo is the standard thing folks use there though the little frittes stands all have a wide variety of "sauces" -- none is usually just plain ketchup/catsup.

SO I get odd looks at times asking if I can get mayo for my fries

Robbie, I LOVE your "No!" story!!! Fantastic! The thing is, I was for most of my life a fairly non-active person. Now I am a triathlete and will CRAVE exercise. Okay, not this week as I've been sick, but in general. Even more so when I'm extremely stressed... I will want to IMMEDIATELY go for a run. What a difference! I'm sure that's effected my opinion on these matters even more... or well, enhanced them.

But ya know it is funny, I was raised by my mom, my dad was in my life, but not on a regular basis (biyearly visits) and when I turned 18 I moved in with him. Not long later, I started working at a restaurant where he had worked, and it was weird! I would say something, with my quirky sarcastic self, and people would give me the oddest looks and then tell me that I sounded just like my father. We have so much the same sense of humor and sarcasm among other things. Not to say I am NOT like mom, I am, but I have so many physical AND personality traits fromd dad. Genetics and all is quite interesting!

Hm I had a good burger last night, but no fries! Blue Cheese Mac and Cheese! Yummy, I am definitely not a carrot person, and it shows! :)

Oops Sarah, I added more after you read the above.

Great. Now I want a cheeseburger with fries and mustard and ranch dressing. Thanks a lot you guys! :P

The thing about genetics is that anyone could get the "skinny gene" from great uncle Herbert, not necessarily from mom or dad. My statistics days are over, but lots and lots of possibilities there. And the nurture part for all the reasons Michele mentioned and more, is very fuzzy. I'm with the "no predictable way whatsoever" from my neuroscience friend. With the genetics, in some ways, we're back to the free will. I see some people who literally need to eat cheeseburgers in order to not lose weight, and others who need to eat only carrots in order to not gain. Not necessarily related or causing the above, are those who go crazy if they don't exercise, the drive is so strong, in contrast to those who wouldn't ever have the desire to exercise. Nature vs. nurture arguments aside, each person decides whether to eat cheeseburgers or carrots, and whether to exercise or not. (Ah, but is a craving for cheeseburgers hormonal, my neuroendocrinologist people ask.)

My two kids were quite different, even in the womb--one of them much more active than the other. The active one really craved stimulation, even as an infant and is still the same way. The less active one loved to be swaddled. A funny anecdote is the different ways each of them reacted to their first "No!" One acted like I had said, "Do it again, but faster and with a smile." The other just immediately went "Waaaaaaaa!" and appeared to have a broken heart. They're both very bright and very stubborn.