George, excellent points, thanks so much for taking the time to post. And DB and Claudia, great websites!

Great discussion. Poets and Writers also has an excellent online resource, which allows you to search magazines in various ways (which ones publish fiction, poetry, and/or creative nonfiction), and lists reading periods, simultaneous submission policy (yes or no), and whether electronic submissions are acceptable. All the magazines in this listing have websites, which you should read closely; at the very least, click on a number of poems from recent issues to determine whether the magazine might be a good fit for your work, or order a sample back issue.

I find the Poets and Writers list more immediately handy than the other (also good) lists noted from CLMP and New Pages. Here you go: http://www.pw.org/literary_magazines?apa...


As for keeping track: in past years I used an index card system, one poem per card, with the magazines to which it was sent and date submitted. Now, I still have a simple system, just a Word file, organized by poem title, with the magazine and date noted. That way, if a poem is simultaneously submitted and an acceptance arrives, I can easily contact the other magazines to withdraw the submission. Don't play games or delay: if you get an acceptance, you should immediately notify other magazines.

Simultaneous submissions: follow the policy, but if a given magazine seems to be asking for too much time, then don't submit there. (Many such magazines get most of their published material via direct request from the editor to the author, so there's no point waiting 6-8-10 months on an exclusive, as your chances of acceptance are doubtful at best.) If you have had a poem or poems accepted by a magazine, don't fire off another batch to that magazine unless you are asked to do so. Let the poems be published, keep writing and trying other publications, and after an interval try that magazine editor again--usually with an exclusive submission, given that you are a previous contributor.

Good luck!

George Witte
www.georgewitte.net

D.B.,

Thank you for listing writers' resources on your web site. I've recommended several of those listed to my clients as well.

Claudia M. Stanek
www.poeticeffect.com

Malcolm,

You are clearly on the right track and you are generous with your willingness to help other writers. Thank you. Here is a link to my website, it offers countless resources. I’m sure you already know about many of them.

I wish you all the best with your writing endeavors.

D.B. Pacini
http://www.astarrynightproductions.com/c...

I recommend one year for print journals, less for online publications.

3 months. There are a few magazines I'll give longer.

Hate to say it but I am old school. I have a moleskin notebook with lists of each poem and date and place I have submitted it to. How long do you give a place before you re-submit something?

Eric -- that is a good one. Thanks.

Here is a great site for lit journal links, info, and reviews:

http://www.newpages.com/literary-magazin...

(Hi, o)

Litlist, on Facebook, which is another good source for markets, also offers free submission tracking software, which I haven't tried since I have my own Word system (would also love to hear more about using Excel) but which looks pretty good if you're just starting to set something up.

There are a lot of good online sources for addresses and websites of poetry journals. This one is incredibly complete:

http://www.clmp.org/directory/index.php

Jan wrote: "Hi Jamie,
I'd love to hear more about your Excel system and/or see a sample. My friend MK Chavez, another poet and writer, wants to set up such a system for my personal use on my Mac iBook and her ..."

Jan, Sorry to take so long to get back to you, but I will send an example of my spreadsheet and hopefully you will find it useful. Look for an email from kjkjz. I also used Duotrope, referenced earlier in this thread, which I find very useful.

Jamie

Hi Jamie,
I'd love to hear more about your Excel system and/or see a sample. My friend MK Chavez, another poet and writer, wants to set up such a system for my personal use on my Mac iBook and her laptop. I'm finding my Word submissions documents much too unwieldy. I'd like it if MK and I didn't have to reinvent the wheel on this. Feel free to e-mail me at jmsteckel@aol.com.

If you have access to the internet (which you do, or you wouldn't be here) you have access to poetry journals. The majority of them have websites now, usually with samples of poetry they've published.

I write lyrical love poetry. My style closely resembles Nikki Giovanni's love poetry.

Any suggestions for publications to try? I've never submitted my poems before.

I have limited acess to poetry journals so I appreciate any help.

Thank you!

I've published in the local magazine Catalyst, and have submitted material to Parcel, Mid)rib, Pinstripe Fedora and Ab Ovo, i'm waiting on responses. i'll have a look at Rampike definately. Is Campilano review still publishing?

Ross, this is most helpful. Same problem with "experimental" or hybrid work here (hybridity for me walking the line between language and lyric. Wanting both cerebral and visceral connection, etc. Have you tried Rampike magazine, out of U. Windsor, in Canada, but international following. Have some work coming out in next issue. Where have you published lately?

Cheers all, good discussion.

Mari-Lou

with regards to where to submit, i've been sending stuff to mostly US journals, even though im in New Zealand - geography does'nt seem to count for much when you've got the internet! the advice i was given was read around, find journals you like that publish similar stuff, and judge comparitive quality- my verse tends to be "experimental" so there's not a big market, hence the US journals - there are only 2 or so "experimental" journals in NZ). the best tool for finding journals i've found is Selby's list - selbyslist.com. it's a close to exhaustive list of experimental publications world wide, with links to websites and editor's contact details.

thanks for info, Malcolm. I've had a harder time with cover letters than with my poems. i've refused to write the damn things. emotional/mental/// my history includes homelessness & lots of jail.lots of both. prison is the worst. you've survived. & are winning.i want to get there 2. haven't seen your work, but i'm already impressed. take care.

I also make notes when there are personal comments. And...I have a column for "withdrawn" to add the date I notify a journal if a submission has been accepted elsewhere.

You're exactly right, Marc. I always make a note if it's anything other than a form letter. Definitely worth another try.

Sigh. Runes lead me on for 5 years with personal comments. Then they evaporated.

C.A.
Thanks for the duotrope link. It looks like a very helpful service.

As far as keeping track of submissions, one thing that I think in helpful: rather than just mark a rejection as a "No," differentiate between form letter "no"s and those that include a brief personal note from an editor -- these are markets you should definitely keep trying.

To track my poems I photocopied the "Submissions Tracker" from the Poet's Market. It has a space for the title, publication, editor/contact, date sent, date returned or accepted, date published, and a box for comments. I just keep a stack of these in a 3-ring notebook and record what a send out and what I get back. I have a color system similar to Julia. I also highlight the poems that are in journals that do not accept simultaneous submissions. So I always know what's available to send out.

I started out with the Poet's Market but won't return to it again. Going to the journal's website is definitely better, and there are some really cool journals out there that are online only. I know there are mixed feelings about online journals, but there really is a big movement towards online work. Anybody I know who reads poetry does it almost exclusively online, like when they are stuck at work at a computer terminal. Many websites also have blogs run by the editor (Rattle's Tim Green has a wonderful blog, for example) and then those blogs have links to journals that they like. Most often, if I like the poems in one journal and they suggest others, I have an affinity for those other journals also.

Yes and I like it alot

I get Duotrope's emails. Are you using the tracking program they have?

I have started using a wonderful online tool with Duotrope Digest http://www.duotrope.com
a sort of clearinghouse/portal to find places to publish, with avg response times and precentages ratios of submissions to acceptances. It seems to be working really well so far.

I use Word to keep track of my submissions in chronological order and give each year its own file, which is a little imperfect in that I might hear from a journal between years.

I suppose if you don't send out that much it isn't important to keep track of submissions, but if you would ever need to contact an editor about a particular submission, it would be much easier to be able to know when you sent a submission and when. I had an editor once ask me about a former fiction professor that taught at my undergrad because the professor claimed our journal had a story, when our submission logs had no record of it. While journals do lose things, it generally makes the writer look unorganized and unprofessional if they don't know where they have or haven't sent their work.

I use the Find feature when I have to withdraw a poem that I've sent out to several places. I used to print out hard copies of poems, put them in a folder and write on the folder submission status. It was quite tedious.

I use the Google online version of Excel to log submissions for a journal I edit. It works as well, though I find it more difficult to search.


As far as what journals I target, I submit to many different levels of journal, but have had the most luck in the last few years with smaller university journals. Some I read before submitting, others I studied examples on their webpages, and some I never read and sometimes get a poem accepted by a journal I've never read. I would hesitate to suggest anyone do that, but I think once you get to know a certain kind of journal, then you have a good idea of what they might publish.

Some journals even state in their guidelines that they don't want a cover letter, just contact info and the poems. I've had mixed success with submitting to "nearby" publications, although I have also heard that advice given as a poet is trying to build a name.

I'm really enjoying sharing about submitting logistics-thank you to everyone!

As far as sending poems to your own geographic area first, I can't see that it much matters. My first acceptance was in Alabama, followed by the West Coast, then Maine, then New England, then Wisconsin, then Louisiana. The two journals in Arizona that I submitted to--"Hayden's Ferry Review" from Arizona State, and "Sonora Review" from my own school, the University of Arizona--both rejected my submissions. Several poems I'd submitted to each were subsequently picked up by more well-known journals.
I would say that submitting geographically close is limiting.

As far as cover letters, submitting blind to a journal where you've never been accepted is vastly different from submitting where you've previously been published. It's like the difference in sales work between cold-calling and a repeat customer. In both cases the latter contact will be far easier and more personal. It's the former that presents the challenge: how to make an editor you don't know pay close attention to your work, given the volume of poems in the slush pile.

I still don't know the answer to this one. Sometimes editors refuse to look at the cover letter before he/she reads the poems. I applaud this stance with all my heart. It was C. Dale Young, Poetry Editor for New England Review, who was the first one to say this is how he worked, and he later wrote to me to say that he was quite surprised to note my pencil-lettered cover letter and discover that I was a prison inmate at the time. For a look at this, Google me (put "malcolm alexander" in quotes, then a comma, then the word poet) and scroll down to PoetryFoundation.org:Journals and read his comments. It still brings a tear to my eye.

You might find it interesting that I covered the living room walls of my small apartment with notices: rejections on one side and acceptances on the other. Perhaps some distant day the latter will crowd out the former.

In any case, good luck to you all!

I have only submitted to a handful of places.

I was told, to submit close, geographically. Then work your name out in gradually bigger circles. I live in the NW, near Portland, OR. So, I mainly submit to Poetry Northwest, and a handful of other P-town magazines. I also submit to some other Northwest and West Coast Magazines. Slowly working my name out further and further.

After seeing so many of you submit to Rattle, I have done so as well. It seems like an amazing magazine.

My cover letters vary, depending on the relationship with the editor. The more personal relationship I have with the editor, the more personal the letter. The closest one learned how I prefer to cook my eggs in the morning, and how my preference differs in the evening.

I don't really keep track of what I've sent out, but am going to give it a try.

I collect my rejection letters, and have come to enjoy those with a personal touch to it.

Jerry.

Maybe this topic should have its own heading. I couldn't find this discussion and I knew I had read some comments. Hard to find it again when a good discussion gets going under a random topic.

I keep track by poems too. Current poems that haven't found a home are all listed down the lefthand column and then all the places where they have been submitted with the date across the top.

When they are returned I note in green whether they were accepted and the date and then in red if it not accepted and the date returned. I can quickly see what needs to get sent out again and how good or bad I've done during the past month or so. Lately I've hitten a dry spell, which usually means I should spend time writing new poems and revising old ones.

This is a really good discussion. My cover letters are bare bones, but I am wondering if I should pump them up a bit. Why knows. Doesn't the cover letter get seperated from the actual poems most often anyway? Could some literary magazine types offer some suggestions?

Thanks!

Nina,

I like that idea. My library has ten of the series, and I am going to order all of them, one at a time.

I keep track of my submissions by poem, with a column to date submission, journal, accept date, rejection date. I find that if I track by poem it makes it easier to notify journals when something is accepted.

Cat, another recommendation for reading would be the Best American Poetry series- a new one is published each year, and the editorial in the beginning of each book is interesting. These books expose the reader to a wide variety of poems and writers, and then you can explore in depth the poets whose work you particularly enjoy.

Jamie, I used use Excel to figure my grades when I was teaching, but that's been a while and I've forgotten how to use it. Right now I have separate Word tables for Submitted, Accepted, Rejected, and lists of available poems. But every time I get an acceptance or rejection, and every time I submit, I'm moving things from one table to another. Too many steps are involved.

Malcolm, thanks for being so helpful and sharing your experiences.

Hi Malcolm,

Nice job! You can't imagine how many writers have a difficult time writing a good letter to send in with their submission. The bio's especially:)

I am sure this will be helpful to all. I have enjoyed reading all your posted poetry as well.

Good luck with all your writing and publishing endeavors.

Ami

Malcolm,

Thank you for showing a way to work on getting published and keeping track of your poems. When I get good enough, I will try your ideas. I also think that Toll is a great poem. By the way, I just got Stephen Dunn, Mark Doty, and Margaret Atwood poetry books from the library. Can't wait to dig into them.

Malcolm,
How kind of you to share your experience. It is encouraging to learn of your successes. Thank you and by the way, Toll is a wonderful poem.

Ruth, I use Excel which is pretty much the same idea, but then you can sort by title, by publication, by status and by date submitted, which can be helpful.

I've never gone the simultaneous submissions route. I have a hard enough time keeping track of what poem is out where, that I'm sure to screw it up. At least the way I'm working now.

I use a table in Word to keep tabs on my submissions, but I'm open to suggestions. How do you keep track, Malcolm? Or anyone else?

Malcolm, this is wonderful. Thank you so much for openly sharing what works for you. I also try to keep submissions circulating, and am conscientious about notifying journals if something gets accepted. My attitude is that every rejection letter triggers more submissions. And I agree that sometimes what is accepted is not what I would consider the strongest of what I sent. I also started with Poet's Market, and found it an excellent starting point, especially to someone new to submitting, but I agree that visiting the journal's website is more informative.

Thank you all for the needed strokes. For all that most of the people I know care about poetry, I might as well work in a dungeon.

Nina, I suppose you could call it a system: I basically flood the mail with submissions. At any given time I have 20 to 30 packets of poems under consideration at the various major journals in America.

I started with only a Poet's Market (the book, available at any bookstore) when I was in prison (I served a total of 10 years for drug smuggling). My former professor, mentor, and now dear friend Richard Shelton (quite a famous poet/author--check out his books on my Goodreads!) would type up my finished poems and mail them back to me, at which point I wrote cover letters in pencil and sent the letters & poems in big manila envelopes to the journals I thought were just under the very top tier (no submissions to the New Yorker, the Atlantic, etc. but I did submit to Poetry--to no avail). My first acceptance came 2 months after I started sending poems out--by Black Warrior Review, followed closely by Rattle. In the first two years (and a total of about 50 submissions) I got published in all those places listed in Malcolm's Writing in my Goodreads profile. The past year or so has not been as good: I was only accepted in places where I'd already been published (Southern Review, New England Review, Rattle, Confrontation), not that there's anything wrong with that--those are all excellent journals--but I wanted NEW places. And then just the other day came the acceptance by Atlanta Review (my first time there) and so I'm upbeat again.

Nowadays I write my cover letters on the computer and make rather profesional-looking mailing labels as well. But what matters most is, of course, the poems. As a virtual unknown, I can't yet rely on name recognition to get mediocre work published: the poems have to shine. And of course you never know how a given editor is going to feel on a given day. Maybe an intern spilled coffee down his shirt and so that day he wouldn't accept a sonnet from Shakespeare himself. Like I said elsewhere, it's a crapshoot. And the best way to beat such long odds is sheer volume. Submit like there's no tomorrow! One hint: I simultaneously submit everywhere and NEVER say so (though once a poem is accepted, I email all the other journals where it was under consideration and withdraw it. You HAVE to do that, out of courtesy. It also makes you look professional). However, until you're famous, the chances of more than one journal accepting the same poem is infinitesimal. And the poem you think is most likely to be chosen is seldom the one they take. Odd...

When selecting which poems to submit to which journals, it helps to have read a RECENT issue so as to gauge the editorial tastes if your poems vary widely in style/form. And much better than using the Poet's Market book is to go to each journal's website and follow their submission guidelines. Don't forget to include an SASE! A small number of journals are now using electronic submissions (and more & more are going this route) which saves all the expense & hassle of snail mail.

Here at the U of Arizona they have a brand new, nationally acclaimed Poetry Center, which subscribes to ALL the important journals, and by looking at each one I can get their website. I'm sure there's an online resource for that too, but I just don't know what it is.


I created a Submissions Manager file that I keep on my flash drive (I don't own a computer; I use the U of Arizona library's giant computer room), as well as a paper copy I update in pencil. I'll be happy to send it as an email attachment to anyone who wants to use it as a format. I'll do that with a sample poem as well, so you can see the format I use.

The following is a sample cover letter.


Malcolm Alexander
P.O. Box 206
Tucson, AZ 85702
malcolmalexander11@gmail.com


July 22, 2008

Editor:

My name is Malcolm Alexander and I have enclosed a selection of my work for your consideration.

My poems have been recently published in The Southern Review [twice], New England Review [twice], Confrontation, Beloit Poetry Journal, North American Review, Puerto del Sol, Colorado Review and numerous other journals, including Verse Daily (June 20, 2006) online.

Concerning my personal history, you may find it interesting that I have spent roughly half of the past twenty years in prison for several drug convictions. I also spent several of those years as a creative writing student at the University of Arizona in Tucson. As to which experience I benefited most from, from a poetry standpoint, I am still uncertain.

In any case, enclosed is an SASE for reply only. Please just recycle what you can’t use. I look forward to your response and any comments you’d like to offer.

Best,

(note: this comment format doesn't allow me to put the date or the closing "Best,"
out on the page where they properly belong)
----------------------------------------------

I hope this has been helpful to anyone interested.

Congratulations, Malcolm. That's terrific!

I'm going to take my time going through all those poems, Malcolm. Don't want to give them short shrift.

Malcolm, congrats. Do you have a system for submitting?

I no longer am posting poems that have been accepted for publication but are not yet published--out of consideration to the journals which have accepted them.

Rather, this topic is now for info about submitting to journals. I now know a fair amount about what works, which I discovered mostly by trial and error, and I am happy to share this with all of you.