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Additions to Librarian Manual > Books in languages that don't use latin script

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message 1: by surfmadpig (last edited Oct 18, 2010 10:51AM) (new)

surfmadpig | 25 comments I attempted to write this, seeing how there is a lot of confusion regarding such cases, and how rivka asked for someone to write it up ;)

Feedback and improvements very welcome, as well as additional examples (I could only list Greek examples).

Also, is there a specific term for such languages? I couldn't think of one :/

Anyway, here is my proposed addition:



"
Books in languages that don't use Latin script

This refers to books written in languages such as Arabic, Japanese, Greek, etc. that do not use the Latin script.

1) When the book is an original, written in a language that doesn't use Latin script:

-As primary author, list the author's name in romanized form, ie. in Latin script. You
might want to search Goodreads or Wikipedia to make sure you're using the proper romanized version of the author's name, as in some cases there can be more than one.

-As secondary author, you can list the author's name in the local language.

-The remaining information, ie. the book title, publisher, description etc. can be listed in the local language.

-In the "primary language" field, choose the language in which this book was written.

example:

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26...



2) When the book is a translation of a book that uses Latin script into a language that doesn't:

-Always list the author's name in Latin script as the primary author.

-If you want to add the author's name in the local language, make sure you add it as a separate, secondary author.

-All remaining information can be listed in the local, non-Latin script, but make sure you use the Gregorian calendar.

-In the "primary language" field, you should choose the language of the translation, not the language of the original.


example:

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/78...

"

there you go. I know it's not written that efficiently or clearly, but it's a start.


message 2: by Paula (new)

Paula (Paulaan) | 6847 comments surfmadpig, I have added to your piece above:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thought I would resurrect this for the manual: changes and comments please:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Author Profiles and Books – Languages

Author Profiles
Author names should be written in one language only. The language used should comply with the following convention:
a) Where the author has books written in Latin script or translated from the original language in to Latin script the authors name should be written in the Latin script. The author profile description section may be used to document other language forms of the author’s name.
Example: http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/...
b) Where the author has NOT had books translated in to Latin script the author profile name should remain in the original language.
Single name authors should continue to use just the single name. A note in the profile description maybe added to inform members that the use of a single name is appropriate.
The description in the author profile maybe in entered in a number of languages if desired
Example: http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/...
Incorrect:
“Adonis (Ali Ahmad Sa’id) علي أحمد سعيد إسبر’ – This examples show: Pen name, Latin Name, Arabic Name.
Books

When the book is an original, written in a language that doesn't use Latin script:

The primary author should be listed in Latin script. If a number of different spellings occur i.e. different in Spanish and English, then consult the Library of Congress and use the spelling provide there.
A secondary author may be added using the original language, the remaining information, i.e. the book title, publisher, description etc. can be listed in the original language.
In the "primary language" field, choose the language in which the edition of the book was written. Different editions can be in different languages.

Example: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26779...

When the book is a translation of a book that uses Latin script into a language that doesn't:

The primary author should be listed in Latin Script, if a number of different spellings occur i.e. different in Spanish and English, then consult the Library of Congress and use the spelling provide there. A librarian note should be added to indicate that the variant author pages are "correctly spelled" in their respective languages.

A secondary author maybe added in the local language. All remaining information can be listed in the local, non-Latin script, but make sure you use the Gregorian calendar.
In the "primary language" field, you should choose the language of the translation, not the language of the original.


Example: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/55...


message 3: by Nousha (new)

Nousha (noushawitch) | 14 comments Ok, I don't understand -

b) Where the author has NOT had books translated in to Latin script the author profile name should remain in the original language

AND

When the book is an original, written in a language that doesn't use Latin script:
The primary author should be listed in Latin script.

Let's see: we have a book of a Bulgarian author (we use Cyrillic alphabet) that is not translated in any other language. If I create the book, what should I do with the author? If I write it in Bulgarian, according to the first rule I quoted, how is the book going to have a primary author in Latin script, according to the second rule?


message 4: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 28978 comments Mod
I am having trouble parsing the question. This is almost certainly due to my lack of sleep, but would you mind rephrasing?


message 5: by surfmadpig (new)

surfmadpig | 25 comments Nousha,
the first part you pasted concerns author profile names, NOT book entries (and I'm not sure I personally agree with it). It's true that Paula's suggestion is a little confusing. Since author profiles are created automatically every time an author is added, there are duplicate profiles for authors whose name is no in latin script (the latin script profile and the original language profile), so I don't think there should be any trouble there.

In your example: if you create the book, the author name should be in Latin script and you should add a secondary author which is the author's name in Bulgarian.


message 6: by Nousha (new)

Nousha (noushawitch) | 14 comments I know that the first part is about author profiles, maybe I forgot to mention that I meant "when I create a book for an author that does not have a profile in GR" - so I create both a book and a profile.
Then, let me say it again so I am sure I understood :)
- I create a book and I write as primary author the name in Latin characters then as secondary - in Bulgarian so automatically I create two author's profiles - is it so? (This means that the sentence from Paula is not correct "b) Where the author has NOT had books translated in to Latin script the author profile name should remain in the original language" - or at least it is not complete, there will be two author's profiles)

- Should I add any remarks in the profiles?

- When I add any information about the author, should I update both profiles - in English and Bulgarian or only in Bulgarian?

I am sorry I ask so many questions but I really want to know for sure :) And many thanks for your answer.


message 7: by Cait (new)

Cait (tigercait) | 5005 comments I will admit that I have not always followed this rule. I was just working on an author with about forty books originally written in Japanese; two of them are translated into English. I looked at that list and I thought about the work of editing fifty-odd editions to copy and paste the author's names...and then I listed the Japanese version of the author's name first on the English translations, combined them, and moved on. Should we discuss a threshold number of translations for swapping the primary author to Latin-characters or do I just need to admit I was wrong?


message 8: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 28978 comments Mod
I think of this more as a guideline than a rule.


message 9: by Nousha (new)

Nousha (noushawitch) | 14 comments I'd prefer clear rules in the manual but in the end maybe it's not a big difference between primary and secondary author as long as it's mostly important for searching in the site. And when you have both spellings the author must be found by anyone.
My problem is - I recently was adding Bulgarian editions to Brandon Sanderson's books when I realized somebody has created profile for the author entirely in Bulgarian. I contacted the person to tell him about it and he asked me where he can read about the rules to avoid such mistakes in the future. So I realized it is not clearly stated anywhere - at least I can't find it. OK, authors whose primary language does not use Latin script get second profile in Latin; but authors who write with Latin characters, do they get another profile for each language their works are translated into (do we add as secondary author the name in Cyrillic, Arabic or whatever the target language is)?


message 10: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 28978 comments Mod
Nousha wrote: "do they get another profile for each language their works are translated into (do we add as secondary author the name in Cyrillic, Arabic or whatever the target language is)?"

Yes, absolutely.

And the only part that is less rule than guideline is the order of the authors.


message 11: by surfmadpig (new)

surfmadpig | 25 comments rivka wrote: And the only part that is less rule than guideline is the order of the authors.
"


Perhaps it should be a rule though, considering how one can never know for certain if there are no translations into other languages (or if there will be) and you can't combine the translations unless the latin script name is first.


message 12: by okyrhoe (new)

okyrhoe | 57 comments Cait wrote: " I will admit that I have not always followed this rule. ...and then I listed the Japanese version of the author's name first on the English translations, combined them, and moved on. Should we discuss a threshold number of translations for swapping the primary author to Latin-characters or do I just need to admit I was wrong?"

This makes sense in terms of numbers (less English translations, therefore less editing work), but it doesn't make sense in terms of (GR users' knowledge of other) languages.
What would one do in the case of a Greek translation of a Japanese book (with no English translation available)?
A third person looking at the entry would see Japanese and Greek, but not be able to read/distinguish the data in either language.
I think that having Latin/English as the default primary entry for author names will make editing and merging more reliable.


message 13: by surfmadpig (new)

surfmadpig | 25 comments I agree with okyrhoe, and that's what my proposed addition at the top of this thread says :)

In any case, I'm sure that this conversation proves that whichever rule is decided it should definitely be added to the manual, as there's lots and lots of confusion.


message 14: by Nousha (new)

Nousha (noushawitch) | 14 comments I completely agree :) So, to sum up: primary name of the author - always in English regardless of his works being translated in other languages (because we can't always know if there are or no). Secondary - the name in original script (Bulgarian, Greek, Japanese, Arabic...).
Then, if the author is Bulgarian, Greek, Japanese... we need to have third name for the translation in other language that does not use Latin characters.
Example:
The Bulgarian poet Hristo Botev is translated in many languages so a book in Bulgarian would have:
Hristo Botev - primary
Христо Ботев - secondary

A translation in Spanish would list:
Hristo Botev - primary
Христо Ботев - secondary
Jristo Botev - third

(I can't give an example with Chinese or Arabic letters :) :)

Is that correct?


message 15: by surfmadpig (new)

surfmadpig | 25 comments I agree, but I don't think the third name is that important. The vast majority of readers know or can guess the author's name in the latin script and even if they can't, there's a multitude of ways to find it.


message 16: by Nousha (new)

Nousha (noushawitch) | 14 comments I agree but in terms of establishing some rules I try to clear all the possibilities. So for now - third name (in target language of translation different from Latin script) is optional :)

What about the translator's name? I see in many book profiles the name of the translator added as a secondary/ third author.


message 17: by Sandra (new)

Sandra | 5725 comments Yes, but the translator is always identified as such.


message 18: by Nousha (new)

Nousha (noushawitch) | 14 comments Ok, thank you. So if all I wrote in my last two posts is correct then I have clearer idea of what to do. And I strongly believe it will be far more useful if it is written in the manual.
Thank you all for your help, it is priceless :)


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