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Kiss of Snow (Psy-Changeling, #10)
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Psy-Changeling: The Books > Kiss of Snow (# 10)

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message 351: by Lady Jaye (last edited Nov 29, 2011 09:05AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lady Jaye (lady-jaye) | 160 comments Oooh - Yurice, there's a BEAR changeling pack? where is all this info coming from? the books i skipped?!

Yeah - all the wolves are just waiting for Kenji and Jem to get it on.

Lulu, where do you get your info? you seem to have all the inside stuff, like how many books in the series, everything!

message 352: by Yurice (new) - rated it 5 stars

Yurice | 429 comments Can't remember which book, only that Kaleb leaves the 2 strongest packs in his territory alone. I'm pretty sure it was a wolf - Selenka is their alpha, and the other is bear pack, but I have to double check. ^^;

message 353: by Lulu (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lulu (Lulululu) | 3351 comments There is an unofficial Nalini fan club over at forummotion. She has stopped by there to do a Q & A in the past. I also get her monthly newsletter which has tidbits.

Nalini also has a couple of her own online Q & A sessions from 2010 and 2009 on her own website which I've read. They are really long and have lots of good information. It's under "EXTRAS: PsyChangeling Behind the Scenes". Here is the link: You have to scroll down a bit to find the Q & A sessions.

message 354: by Lulu (last edited Nov 29, 2011 09:14AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lulu (Lulululu) | 3351 comments Also, check out kaleigha's blog "WickedScribes" if you haven't already. She has a fabulous timeline and character guide for PsyChangeling and Guild Hunter.


message 355: by Monique (new) - added it

Monique (Kadiya) | 275 comments I think Kaleb's partner, mate, whatever you want to call her is either going to be a Psy we don't know yet or she will be the woman he is looking for.

message 356: by Yurice (new) - rated it 5 stars

Yurice | 429 comments I was scrolling through WickedScribes, read the bit about Indigo as well as Inéz...I didn't know Simran is her lover? I mean, I know she was worried when Simran was injured, but was it ever mentioned they're lovers? How did I miss that? ಠ_ಠ

message 357: by Lulu (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lulu (Lulululu) | 3351 comments It's not specifically stated but, if you read between the lines, in that scene in the infirmary Inez is really upset and treats Simran tenderly.

Calisto | 30 comments I didn't realize that Kaleb was so young, but now it makes sense since he was Enrique's protege. I would be surprised if he's not paired with Sahara. I just think it was too much of a coincidence that he's looking for someone and Sahara just happened to be MIA.

I kinda hope we don't see a HEA for Amara. She's awesome as a totally unstable, potential monster on a very short leash. LOL.

My favorite heroine is Sienna. I totally loved her in KoS. Hawke? Not so much. (Heresy, IK. LOL)

Lady Jaye (lady-jaye) | 160 comments Yeah. it took me a coupla moments to catch that too. but Lulu's right. from the way its described, Simran and Inez are lovers

message 360: by Lulu (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lulu (Lulululu) | 3351 comments I love Sienna, too. Even though she is really young, she is one of my all-time favorite heroines. I just really like the combination of power, intelligence, kindness and vulnerability with a dose of mischief.

Lady Jaye (lady-jaye) | 160 comments *Draws in sharp breath* - Calisto, you are goign to break my heart!
Who's your favorite male?

message 362: by Lulu (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lulu (Lulululu) | 3351 comments Lady Jaye, no worries, that leaves Hawke for US (muhahahahahaha!)

message 363: by Yurice (new) - rated it 5 stars

Yurice | 429 comments What's wrong with Hawkie Pawkie? Is it because of the age gap? ಥ_ಥ

I thought Simran and Inéz were sisters, I definitely felt the tenderness vibe, but the lovers thingie escaped my radar.^^

Lady Jaye (lady-jaye) | 160 comments Yeah Lulu, we'll keep him all to ourselves!! :D

message 365: by Lulu (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lulu (Lulululu) | 3351 comments Sienna would fry us to a crisp though.

Lady Jaye (lady-jaye) | 160 comments Ahhh we'll find some way to deal with her. Make Hawke give her a baby, and then when her attention is all taken up with Lil Hawke baby, we'll stel him to ourselves and then fight over him!

message 367: by Lulu (last edited Nov 29, 2011 10:47AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lulu (Lulululu) | 3351 comments As much as I adore Hawke, I do get what Calisto is probably driving at. Hawke acted like a jerk in part of KoS, a big part of it. He wanted her but thought he could refuse to give in to the want. Then when he realizes he can't resist her, he wanted everything from her, all of her, but was only willing to give so much of himself.

And I know he had good reason to hold himself back, based on all the blood and death that had been visited on SD and on Hawke in particular. He still treated Sienna pretty cruelly in that first part of the book. I know other males have done that in other books in the series (Dorian/Ashaya, Clay/Tally, even Vaughn/Faith) but for some reason it hurt more with Hawke. (*sniff sniff*)

message 368: by Yurice (new) - rated it 5 stars

Yurice | 429 comments oooh a catfight. :D

I claim first dibs on Hawke's butt. Only I get to slap it, k? lol

Lady Jaye (lady-jaye) | 160 comments I think what makes it easy for me to forgive Hawke so much is (not just because i love him to bits, lol) is his backstory and the place he's coming from. I get that he's majorly flawed; but i understand the flaws, and i love the flaws.

with the rest, not-so-much. Dorian is also rather flawed, but the place of his hurt didn't correspond how he talked to Ashaya in the beginning, if you get what I mean. his words made me gasp in outrage until I grew to love him.

As for Clay and Tally, those two have no idea what they are about. They are not serious people, hehe.

Believe it or not, I haven't read Vaughn and Faith's story yet - it's next on my list.

message 370: by Yurice (new) - rated it 5 stars

Yurice | 429 comments I can understand that...about Hawke.
But, I guess the reason why I said KoS 'converted' me, was because this was the only book that pushed all my emotional buttons. And most of that revolved around a very big, very stubborn wolf.
I adore Sienna so much that when Hawke does something hurtful - it ties me up in knots.

When a character moves me that much...whether I just want to chew him up in frustration or swoon from all the adoration, I'm definitely hooked. :3

message 371: by Yurice (new) - rated it 5 stars

Yurice | 429 comments I don't like Tally. ಠ_ಠ
Never understood the choices she made, to be honest.

message 372: by Monique (new) - added it

Monique (Kadiya) | 275 comments Tally and Clay have always been close to the top of my list, Clay especially. Just something about him and the place he came from emotionally. I think he *always* knew Tally was his but because he didn't have an upbringing in a Changeling environment, he had no way to understand it. Losing her destroyed him; having her back healed him. Simple as that.

message 373: by Joan (last edited Nov 29, 2011 12:13PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Joan (JoanofSnark) | 612 comments I love Hawke just as he with all of his flaws and foiables and I love that he didn't have a personality transplant in his own book, which has ruin many series for me. For the entire story arc, Hawke's personality remained consistent.

Hawke's force of will, tenacity, and loyalty are the very qualities that make him such a compelling and fascinating character and the perfect mate for such a dynanmic woman as Sienna. He was willing to die with her even when he didn't yet believe she was his true mate.

The weakest and least favorite book and heroine for me is Mine to Possess and Talin. I though as the only human mate, she was insecure, insincere, and ambivalent towards her mate.

I love Clay and he deserved so much better than a mate who did not appreciate his strenghts until she needed them for her own purposes.

Lady Jaye (lady-jaye) | 160 comments Tallin wasn't a serious human being, but she was also seriously messed up. i felt like apart from all the love she found with Clay and DR, she still should have gotten counseling. She claimed she'd gotten it before. I didn't see it.

message 375: by Lulu (last edited Nov 29, 2011 01:16PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lulu (Lulululu) | 3351 comments Yep, Talin is my least favorite of the females in the series too. Just something about her fear of Clay and her insecurities just drove me batty. It would have been nice to have the only human female in the series (besides Ria or Annie) be an impressive woman. But I can excuse some of it because she was ill and needed that little bit of psychic feedback since she's 2% Psy.

message 376: by Lulu (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lulu (Lulululu) | 3351 comments Lady Jaye, you haven't read Vaughn/Faith's book yet? Oh my. I really love that book. Vaughn is such a cave man! Faith is also one of my favorite of the women in the series. It's a really interesting story too. More Judd too! You must read it soon! Are there any others you haven't read?

Lady Jaye (lady-jaye) | 160 comments I'll look forward to it, Lulu. I am still waiting for it to become available from my library. I'll get it probably in January or Early Feb. I'm like 4th in line.

Lady Jaye (lady-jaye) | 160 comments OH - I haven't read Blaze of Memory and Bonds of Justice. I'll get to those as soon s 'm done with Visions of Heat.

message 379: by Lulu (last edited Nov 29, 2011 01:33PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lulu (Lulululu) | 3351 comments I really liked both Blaze and Bonds. They are different (with their human/Psy pairings) but fill in some important details and feed the ongoing story arc. (Major flaw is that there are no wolves at all in Bonds and minor appearances in Blaze, though there is a good scene with Sascha in Bonds thinking about Hawke and Sienna from what I recall.) I also hardly ever cry when I read books but Blaze of Memory got me to cry!

Lady Jaye (lady-jaye) | 160 comments Lol, Lulu. I'll look forward to them as well, although I am a bit scared because I don't concentrate as well if the wolves aren't in the picture :(

message 381: by Lulu (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lulu (Lulululu) | 3351 comments Bonds of Justice actually has a lot of Kaleb in it too. Lots of important details that may pop up in the future.

message 382: by Yurice (new) - rated it 5 stars

Yurice | 429 comments I like Sophie. There was something about her that a struck a chord with me.
Blaze of Memory - my favorite passage involved Keenan and Noor. And Judd...I definitely loved him a bit more in this. >:3

message 383: by Joan (new) - rated it 5 stars

Joan (JoanofSnark) | 612 comments I usually prefer Psy/Changeling pairings and I missed my wolves but I enjoyed Bonds of Justice because of the glimpses of Nikita as a more than a cold-hearted machine and I loved Sophie because she was such a vulnerable and hurt character who evoked a deep emotion connection. Blaze of Memory is a great read as well. One of my favorite parts in Blaze of Memory was with Kee and Noor and Katya.

Lady Jane, I hope you get to read Visions of Heat soon. I love Faith and Vaughn. Hawke and Sienna are epic but after Judd/Brenna, Faith and Vaughn are my favorite couple then Dorian/Ashaya.

message 384: by Lulu (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lulu (Lulululu) | 3351 comments Hawke/Sienna, then Judd/Brenna, then Faith/Vaughn and then Luc/Sascha for me. So I think you'll like Visions of Heat is what I'm trying to say!

Calisto | 30 comments Sorry! Forgot to check in. >.<

My favorite hero is Riley and BbF is probably my favorite book because of his relationship with Mercy. She's my 2nd fav heroine. Although I do love Judd/Brenna.

I adored the idea of Hawke/Sienna right up to KoS. I do like parts of KoS, but yeah, I felt Hawke didn't deserve Sienna. He was a jerk (Lulu hit it;) I just wasn't buying the love as much as he had a nuclear case of blue balls and Sienna was the only one his wolf wanted so the man 'accepted it'.

I can't stand Tally (sorry Lady Jaye, I tried! LOL) It wasn't so much about the promiscuity but because of her fear/wishy washy behavior towards Clay. I've reread all of the stories EXCEPT for the Clay/Tally one.

Calisto | 30 comments Eeep! I meant, sorry Lady Vale. She suggested the reread and I just couldn't stomach scaredy-(sorta)human Tally.

message 387: by Lulu (last edited Nov 29, 2011 07:49PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lulu (Lulululu) | 3351 comments Well, I disagree with Calisto about Hawke not loving Sienna. I think the nuclear blue balls that only she could take care of (lol), made him realize he had to go to her but then he pretty quickly understood what she was to him. So he tries to keep his distance, thought they could become lovers and have him keep that distance, but she was well and truly under his skin. (In fact, I think he tried keeping distance between them because he knew deep down what she would become to him.) But he kept learning more and more about her and appreciating what he learned. Towards the end, he was willing to die with her even before they mated (when he told her he was staying up in the mountains with her after she took off on her own). That was also one heck of a speech he gave her at the end too, when he admitted to being a coward in dealing with her. Lots of appropriate grovelling there.

I do think that Hawke doesn't fit as neatly in with other PsyChangeling Heroes as he the one male in the series who resists the mating pull. All the other changelings figure it out before the female and pursue her, so he's different in that regard. The other changeling males are also only focused on themselves and their mates: Can I win her? Will she accept the bond? OMG is she standing near another male? That sort of thing. Hawke is having to lead SD in an upcoming war, staying strong and focused while Sienna is on the edge of dying, so I think Nalini forces him to be more emotionally contained up until the end.

Anyway, just my rambling thoughts. . .

message 388: by Lulu (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lulu (Lulululu) | 3351 comments What I do wish about KoS is that there weren't so many fade-to-blacks and starts/stops in the book. There were several scenes between Hawke and Sienna that I wanted to continue, but the scene just stopped and we got only a bit of what happened from Sienna's thoughts the next day. Also, while I really like Walker and Lara and I understand the need for Walker to have a big presence in KoS, I thought their relationship took away page time from Hawke/Sienna and caused some of those fade-to-blacks, likely because of page count. On the other hand, I get having Hawke/Sienna interrupted frequently. There is a war on and Hawke is SD's leader. Riley calling him at all hours and the Psy showing up at inopportune moments lends to the realism of the overall situation so I was OK with some of it, I just would have liked a bit less of that.

I would have also liked Sienna to face off against Ming in some way. I thought it could have been more interesting to send her on a mission that would have involved Ming than sending her and Judd off to South America. Nalini probably wants to save the confrontation with Ming for some other book but I really thought Sienna deserved to confront Ming, given how she was his protogee for 10 years and he tortured her for so long. When Ming didn't die in BoM, I thought he was being "saved" for Sienna. Still could happen down the road but it's doubtful as Sienna has now had her book in the spotlight.

Just more rambling . . .

Calisto | 30 comments Actually, I agree with you Lulu. LOL. I don't dislike Hawke. Not at all. I think my biggest beef was the way the story was told, maybe? I hated the fade-to-black/herky-jerky pacing. It wasn't that there were constant interruptions to the courtship, that I get. It was the big scene... them dancing in the moonlight or whatever and then...nothing. The next chapter and it's something/someone completely different. Days later or hours later, whatever it was. Talk about blue balls! That happened constantly. That with the lack of confrontation with Ming, Hawke being alpha jerkface, Walker/Laura taking up space...LOL.

There are scenes I absolutely love in KoS and I'm totally thrilled that it was Hawke/Sienna I just wanted a little more kick in the gut reaction of awesomesauce. I'm just persnickety. LOL

message 390: by Joan (last edited Nov 29, 2011 11:21PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Joan (JoanofSnark) | 612 comments Unquestionably Hawke, both the man and the wolf, loved Sienna beyond measure. Everything Hawke did in KoS stemmed from the man's love and desire to protect Sienna and to give her the time she needed to make the choice to choose him forever.

Hawke certainly did deserve Sienna, not only because he put aside his own hate and prejudice of the Psy to give her family sanctuary, accept them as Pack, and blood bond Judd as a lieutinent. Hawke proved his worth as a loyal, devoted, and resourceful mate who is capable of sacrifice and giving his all for those he loved.

Hawke would never be overwhelmed by Sienna's power and intelligence, he will encourage and anchor her. They make powerful alpha pair for SnowDancer. When the time comes for Sienna to face her nemesis, she will be stabilized through the mating bond to take Ming down.

I look forward to the coming civil Psy war and seeing which side Anthony, Nikita, and Kaleb come down on now that the council is fractured.

message 391: by Yurice (new) - rated it 5 stars

Yurice | 429 comments To sum up what bugs me in KoS - Not Enough Hawke/Sienna.
There simply was too many things happening all at the same time. Any other lesser couple would have crumpled beneath all that chaos.
So yeah, KoS both fascinates and frustrates me. ಥ_ಥ

And to add a bit about Hawke...
Of all the heroes who was paired with a virgin, I thought Hawke was the most careful. And I don't mean the actual...err, scene. He was sensitive, well not in everything of course, but that time when they were playing poker in his quarters? He'd sensed that she won't be comfortable being naked, and he didn't push.
I really liked Hawke for that one alone. He was always gauging her readiness. :D

Lady Jaye (lady-jaye) | 160 comments Calisto wrote: "Sorry! Forgot to check in. >.<

My favorite hero is Riley and BbF is probably my favorite book because of his relationship with Mercy. She's my 2nd fav heroine. Although I do love Judd/Brenna.

I a..."

I love Riley. Mercy much less so; bitchy cat. I didn't like their relationship because of Mercy's idiocy, and I didn't see much beyond the hot sex. But I love, loved their mating and the final scenes they shared together in BbF. That book would have been awesome if Mercy had been just a smidge nicer/not bitchy for no reason.

I think you, Lulu, and Yurice have stated a lot of what was wrong with KoS - the fade-to-black scenes, the poaching of pages by W/L (who don't fascinate me AT ALL), and the general sense of hurriedness because of the war.

I also think Yurice is right. If Sienna had been slightly older and not-a-virgin (i don't know how that would be possible for Psy though), I think their mating would be so much different. Hawke was very, very careful with Sienna. I remember two scenes: one where he was thinking he should stay away from her because he'd probably scare her so bad she'd never want to have sex again (lol) and the one where he was thinking how he had to go slow because she was new at this even though he didn't want/couldn't go slowly, heh. it might have been more like Riley and mercy's if Sienna had been a changeling/expierenced.

and I love, love Joan's characterization of Hawke. I think you hit the nail right on the head, Joan!

message 393: by Lulu (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lulu (Lulululu) | 3351 comments There are some great scenes in KoS no doubt. I did love how careful Hawke was with Sienna in their intimate scenes. (The poker playing scene was great.) How he controlled himself for her when he really didn't want to and the wolf was starving for her.

When you have waited as long as some of us have for this book, the expectations are so high. I just wish Nalini's editor had come up with some of our comments and feedback. It may be that writing her first hardcover and having the extra pages threw her off a bit from her usual flow and organization. She's been used to writing a typical 350 page mass market paperback, then she gets 100 extra pages or so to work with. Walker and Lara's story was sweet but the whole thing really didn't need to be in KoS. Same with Alice Eldridge. I realize she's being introduced as a future character (and I'm guessing likely h for some Psy or changeling) but she didn't really add anything to the story and didn't provide any useful information to help Sienna.

message 394: by Monique (new) - added it

Monique (Kadiya) | 275 comments Alice was a huge downer in the book, but personally, I adored Walker and Lara's story. It was one of the highlights of the book. I was especially interested in how it tied so strongly to the ongoing saga of the Arrows and the implications of that.

message 395: by Lulu (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lulu (Lulululu) | 3351 comments Oh, I think Walker/Lara could have been in the book. I thought it was sweet and really well done and Walker is just, *sighs*, . . . it just could have been condensed. I would have traded some Walker/Lara scenes for more Hawke/Sienna and the continuation of some of their fade-to-black scenes.

message 396: by Lulu (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lulu (Lulululu) | 3351 comments I really, really hope we get to see Kit tormenting Hawke just a little in the next few books. Coming by to have lunch with Sienna. Sending joke gifts. Sort of like how Hawke would flirt with Sascha all the time to annoy Luc. I would LOVE to see Kit pulling Hawke's chain that way.

Calisto | 30 comments Lulu I totally agree. I remember reading KoS the first time thinking that it felt unpolished and I was surprised her editor didn't pick up on that.

@Lady Jaye: "...bitchy cat." I get that and also why so many readers felt that way. At times, I totally agreed but I also got the pressure Mercy, Indigo and any other alpha female have to deal with. That all female soldiers have to be extra conscious of any perceived (real or imaginary) sign of weakness. (Hated what Indigo did to Drew, but I got why she did it and she owned up to it.)

But I also firmly believe that we have all been conditioned to be more forgiving of heroes than heroines. I think if Sienna had been the jerkface that Hawke was, readers would have gone ballistic and called for her head on a silver platter. (Me, included. LOL) I think what is often 'bitchy' in a heroine is often given a free pass in a hero because he's 'tortured'.

Of course, what is great about this series (and books in general) is that we have such great discussion fodder. I still love to talk about even characters I hate *cough tally cough*. BTW. I really liked Sophia in Bonds of Justice.

Eeep, rambled on a bit ;)

message 398: by Joan (last edited Nov 30, 2011 10:26AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Joan (JoanofSnark) | 612 comments I like the pacing of KOS because it was the conclusion of the first story arc and a lot of information had to be wrapped up in order to segue into the next arch. I love the Lauren family and wish that Walker and Lara could have gotten their own novella but it was good to see all the Lauren adults mated and fully integrated into SnowDancer.

Hopefully, Hawke and Sienna will hijack most of the plot in Tangle of Need, hee hee. I don't like the dominant females at all, they are such one-dimensional, hardcore personalities. Mercy got on my nerves with her stubborn cattiness and Indigo was the worst in her treatment of Drew so I'll need to see more of Sienna to counterbalance the rigid Adria.

Now, I thought the introduction of Alice Eldridge was very important to the story because she is an important link to the past and it was her extensive work and research on the E and X designations that gave greater clarity fo the reasons for Silence. Maybe because of the discovery of Alice's work, more E's will be awakened and some X's can be saved.

I hope to see Alice again because it would be fascinating to see the post-Silent world through the persepective a person who was alive when Silence was implemented.

message 399: by Monique (new) - added it

Monique (Kadiya) | 275 comments Calisto wrote: "Lulu I totally agree. I remember reading KoS the first time thinking that it felt unpolished and I was surprised her editor didn't pick up on that.

@Lady Jaye: "...bitchy cat." I get that and also..."

I think that is because men and women react to emotional stressors differently, in general. We expect brooding and lashing out from an emotionally tortured guy; we don't expect it from a woman in the same circumstances. I am one of those women who reacts more like a guy (broody and angry) and I always seem to miss the signs of a woman in emotional pain, but never miss it in a guy.

Now, now, what is with all the Tally hate here? Sheesh! The poor girl didn't know up from down and then to make matters worse, her brain was slowly frying er, dying.

I think the Tally hate mostly comes from her fear of and resultant treatment of Clay. But here's the thing. Her Dad was a violent and cruel man. Clay was not, until he went nuts and tore her Dad to pieces. She needed, as a child, for Clay not to be violent and he broke that one need. More importantly, she was conditioned to fear violence and once Clay broke that, she feared him. The fact that no one was able to reach her emotionally and help her figure all that out afterward sucks so she was left both loving and fearing him with no way to understand why or how to deal with it.

By the time she was an adult, she was so emotionally in the habit of fearing him, and not just because of the violence, but also because she had been unable to stand up for him (though she had been led as a child to believe where he was was better for him), she had no way to undo all that damage. Only Clay, by showing her that he was not violent toward her, could fix that and he did.

message 400: by Monique (new) - added it

Monique (Kadiya) | 275 comments Joan wrote: "I like the pacing of KOS because it was the conclusion of the first story arc and a lot of information had to be wrapped up in order to segue into the next arch. I love the Lauren family and wish t..."

Just finding her work or research would have been fine, didn't need to make her a character, imo.

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Kiss of Snow (other topics)
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