The Qur'an The Qur'an discussion


172 views
Before the Read...

Comments (showing 1-29 of 29) (29 new)    post a comment »
dateDown arrow    newest »

message 1: by Charles (new)

Charles  Grizzle Sometimes it helps to know something about the book before you start reading it: The historical perspective, the state of mind of the author, the social environment at the time the book was written, or any of a number of other tidbits of information can enhance our understanding of a book. So, "Before the Read" is a place for these types of comments. Post general info that will add to the understanding of The Qur'an,or that will put it in it's correct perspective.


message 2: by Charles (new)

Charles  Grizzle The first thing that stands out about the Qur'an is that Islam (which is based on the Quo'ran) appears to many people (myself included)be an unusually violent and intolerant religion. So I'll looking forward to seeing if the Quo'an supports this violence and intolerance or not. What I really want to know is whether Islam is inherently intolerant and violent, or whether Islam has just been hi-jacked by extremist.


Jurang Sepi If you sincerely want to know, you will find out your answers in here : http://forum.whyislam.org/default.asp


Marsha Charles wrote: "The first thing that stands out about the Qur'an is that Islam (which is based on the Quo'ran) appears to many people (myself included)be an unusually violent and intolerant religion. So I'll look..."

Hi Charles!

Many faiths have had people of highly powerly positions reinterpret the books to suit their ideas. It's not a new things with Islam. What you see on TV is terrorism. I'm from the US, I was Christian before, and have converted to Islam. My mosque donates to temples and churches during the holidays, both Christain, Jewish, and Muslim holidays. The faith isn't about violence or intolerance. We all worship the same God. Some people are just evil and have the means of persuading others to do their bidding. It definitely would not have converted if I thought it was the way it is depicted on TV.


Sᴀᴅɪʏᴀ Charles wrote: "The first thing that stands out about the Qur'an is that Islam (which is based on the Quo'ran) appears to many people (myself included)be an unusually violent and intolerant religion. So I'll look..."

It doesn't those people who are violent are only muslims by name. They aren't following the real teachings of Islam. Theres is a verse in the Qur'an that says if you kill one man it is like killing the whole of mankind. Violence is only for self defense. Why would any religion preach violence? To find out more about Islam get to know some real muslims. Go to a local mosque one day and meet them or friend some on goodreads. They're all very nice. Read this book Does My Head Look Big In This? it covers a lot of stuff on Islam.


Sᴀᴅɪʏᴀ Marsha wrote: "Charles wrote: "The first thing that stands out about the Qur'an is that Islam (which is based on the Quo'ran) appears to many people (myself included)be an unusually violent and intolerant religi..."

Exactly.


message 7: by Patrice (last edited Sep 02, 2012 08:40PM) (new) - added it

Patrice I've read parts of the Quo'ran. I read that a man should beat his wife. Lying to his wife is ok. It's ok to lie to infidels and killing in order to convert is OK. Treaties with infidels are null and void, which would explain why Americans don't understand that every treaty is broken. I think the Quo'ran is about peace among Muslims only. Anyone who is not a Muslim has no rights. Aren't Muslims told to kill Jews?

I'm glad that there are many good and decent Moslems who do not take these things literally. Thank God!
But why not be honest?


Muhannad Al-Bukaai Patrice wrote: "I've read parts of the Quo'ran. I read that a man should beat his wife. Lying to his wife is ok. It's ok to lie to infidels and killing in order to convert is OK. Treaties with infidels are ..."

patrice

if u r interested in understanding quraan better please contact me but let me tell u some points

when u read in quraan that its ok fo the man to hit his wife that will have so many restrictions in islam and if any one beats his wife for no reason he will be punished and before beating there s three steps should be taken if u want to know more ill send u the full details
i dont know what r u talking about when u talk about lying ..... lying in islam is allowed under condition of war only and only war thats it no other reason
and killing is not allowed at all unless the other guy was trying to kill u thats it even in war we dont kill as much as u r saying .... i believe the least killing was in muslims wars
and the peace we are trying to give for the world should be understood
please contact me and i will explain more about islam

and let me tell u that u will never understand something hundred per cent if u only read a book .... so any question u have about islam or quraan im ready to answer everything


Shanna Muhannad
I'd be interested in you opinion on this
http://digitaljournal.com/article/329317
And where the Qur'an stands on this issue


Shanna if any one beats his wife for no reason he will be punished and before beating there s three steps should be taken if u want to know more ill send u the full details

Will you post them here, I'd be thrilled to know in what context beating your wife is OK?


Muhannad Al-Bukaai shanna
i will post everything for u here dont worry .... but let me read the article u send to me first and will replay for u asap


Muhannad Al-Bukaai Shanna wrote: "Muhannad
I'd be interested in you opinion on this
http://digitaljournal.com/article/329317
And where the Qur'an stands on this issue"


first you have to understand the difference between two major islamic doctrines
one is ( sunnah )which i belong to and the other is ( shea'a ) which iran belong to
but now we are discussing where qura'an stands from that
i can tell u as a muslim i wont allow something like this to happen if i had the power in islam girls are allowed to marry when they get to the adulthood not before that and this is related to two things
first the woman body ... when she starts to have periods and start to show the whole female body changes

second the society : what the society thinks the proper age is or the proper mentality is for example in my society the woman should know how to cook its not a rule but its preferred to be and the woman should know what she s going through when she got marry

u might read that prophet mohammad married his wife ( ayshah ) when she was nine yes but he didnt started to live with her as a wife till she got to twelve and that was because in that society at this age she s a full woman and she knows what is marriage and another thing we can compare ourselves to a prophet

so im telling you what u sent me right there is illegal even in islamic views and trust me u will find many people who will say its good but i challenge any one who says in islamic laws this is right i challenge them to proof it as i proofed here to u that this is wrong


Shanna I'd like to know the differences between sunnah and shea'a if you could explain I'd be grateful? Is it something to do with wether, upon Muhammad's death, one group thought they should follow Muhammad's son or the other group, other prophets. How else do they differ?

u might read that prophet mohammad married his wife ( ayshah ) when she was nine yes but he didnt started to live with her as a wife till she got to twelve and that was because in that society at this age she s a full woman and she knows what is marriage and another thing we can compare ourselves to a prophet

Actually in the sources I've read he married her at six and consumated (started having sex with her) at nine while she was still pure, before her periods, so he did not wait until she was a woman even by the standards of the time. Thus the justification in Sharia, it's an emulation of the prophet.


Muhannad Al-Bukaai Shanna wrote: "if any one beats his wife for no reason he will be punished and before beating there s three steps should be taken if u want to know more ill send u the full details

Will you post them here, I'd ..."

first u should understand that the husband has duties and when he does his duties hundred percent of them he deserves his rights and his right that his wife obey him , tell him when she goes out and he doesnt have the right to refuse unless he has a reason and if he refused for no reason like ( dont go to ur moms i dont like her ) the wife can go without telling him
so when he does hi part of the married life and treat her will and she starts ruining the married life like stop obeying him or even tell his sons not to obey him and go out for no reason without him knowing it in short word she ruins his life he has the right to punish her but not by hitting her first he has to talk to her kindly and softly and tell her how does he feel abt it if she didnt lsn and she keeps what she s doing at this point he stops sleeping with her in the same bed and if she keeps what she s doing after that he may hit her under conditions
first the husband cant ( beat ) his wife but he ( hits ) only and when he hits he should be gentle so she feels the pain but only psychologically as much as he can
second he cant his the face or any part of the body thats usually shown to her family and sons like hands and hair
he cant use hard instruments for example the hard wood no he should find something not more than ( siwak ) if u know what is it ( it a piece of tree called ( arak ) we usually clean our teeth with it so it should be small but not like the toothpick no its bigger u can google it )
also in his attention should be for teaching not for revenge if his attention was revenge he will be punished
and he cant hit more than ten hits under any situation
and he cant hit her in front of anyone
and he cant hit her if he was angry
and if u go to islamic way the prophet he never hitted anyone he never raised his hand on anyone not a woman not a slave not a servant no one and this is our raw model and what we believe comes from him
and in islam Allah ( god ) allowed us to hit but he said if we dont it would be better because islam is for everyone and some people the dont stop untill they see that and they r very few
so me as a husband and muslim i would never never hit my wife or my kid i can get to what i want through discussion we can get the best results i would never place a hand on anyone of my family because islam taught me this way



and im telling u quraan is not like any other book u need books to translate it and many people to explain it

any other question im ready to answer
and any other question about the same matter feel free to contact me


Muhannad Al-Bukaai and another thing
if he hurt her or she bleeds or anything he will be punished unless she forgives him


Muhannad Al-Bukaai Shanna wrote: "I'd like to know the differences between sunnah and shea'a if you could explain I'd be grateful? Is it something to do with wether, upon Muhammad's death, one group thought they should follow Muham..."
the difference is huge and cant replay it this easy so i will do it later i promise
and for the aysha marriage
the marriage was approved by her mother and the mother always knows best and she s the one who suggested it so u cant say it was not something about their time
and about her age if u read it this way u might be more accurate cuz im righting from my memory and the way i understand islam
going back to the age issue
and if u want to think about it at that time in the city where prophet lived there was Christians Jews and even more religions other than islam and non of them said anything or used this point against islam in the time they were fighting with the Jews
another thing after the prophet married aysha Allah in quraan said another ayah telling the prophet wives if the y want to stay with him or he releases them and that was Allah's order so the prophet brought her parents and herself and told them the ayah and they choose aysha to stay with him so this is their time and their habits you cant say she was not adult yet because at their time they think she s an adult and there s many other proofs i can bring to u if u wanna replay to any one
and yes marrying more than four is for prophet only


Shanna Muhannad wrote: "Shanna wrote: "if any one beats his wife for no reason he will be punished and before beating there s three steps should be taken if u want to know more ill send u the full details

Will you post ..."


What is a wife's recourse if her husband fails to do his duty and she does hers 100%? Does she get to hit him?


Muhannad Al-Bukaai Shanna wrote: "Muhannad wrote: "Shanna wrote: "if any one beats his wife for no reason he will be punished and before beating there s three steps should be taken if u want to know more ill send u the full details..."
there s nothing in islam tells her to and nothing tells her not to ....
but i dont think hitting the man will give u results u can give him the silent treatment or even stop obeying him will be the best result for the woman and she s allowed to do that to correct the situation
and in islam both of them they should do whatever they can to preserve and save this life and make it in the best way they can


message 19: by Shanna (last edited Sep 04, 2012 04:00AM) (new) - rated it 1 star

Shanna there s nothing in islam tells her to and nothing tells her not to ....
but i dont think hitting the man will give u results u can give him the silent treatment or even stop obeying him will be the best result for the woman and she s allowed to do that to correct the situation
and in islam both of them they should do whatever they can to preserve and save this life and make it in the best way they can


Except that she can be beaten for applying her remedy of disobedience, even the remedy of the silent treatment of the "silent treatment" could be regarded as disobedience, thus subject to punishment.
Or did I interpret it right, that the man has to be blameless of anything and have lived up to all his obligations to have the right to obedience from his wife?


message 20: by Muhannad (last edited Sep 04, 2012 04:55AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Muhannad Al-Bukaai Shanna wrote: "there s nothing in islam tells her to and nothing tells her not to ....
but i dont think hitting the man will give u results u can give him the silent treatment or even stop obeying him will be the..."


i dont say there s no one who think about it this way
but u should go back to the rules not what people do right ??
in a situation like this if the woman tell the judge or even just her dad or brother about it they should punish him or divorce her from him against his will or he obeys the rules and do his part hundred percent even if he hit her once for no reason that should be an alert and do the proper action about it
even if the woman hit the man for a reason he does not have the right to hit back
and the man is not blameless trust me his is the first to blame if anything went wrong and i mean any tiny thing goes wrong thats the man fault
and fyi the silent treatment is not regarded as disobeying in islam

and yes he should do his part first before he orders his rights of obedience and any other part of life

it happened once in ( Omar ibn al khattab ) time ( and he s one of our references after the prophet ) a man came to his house when he was the king of muslims ( khalifah ) and the man knocked on the door then he heard the voice of omars wife louder than omars voice so he went away at this moment omar opened the door and found the man going away so he called him and asked him why did he come the man answered i wanted to tell u that my wife always yell at me and i hate that what should i do but then i heard your wifes voice so i knew u have the same problem so i went away
omar replied : my brother , this woman cleaned my house raised my kid and made my food , her smallest right is me to endure her anger and her sorrows and be her support when she needs me

and omar when he said the words he was the king of the wildest government known at that time and before it and no one ruled more than him except (haroon al rasheed ) and he had an army of millions all of them afraid of him

i say again
if the man didnt do his duty he does not have the right to ask for his right


message 21: by Patrice (new) - added it

Patrice Although I can't join the discussion I would like to make a suggestion. Get different translations. I recently took a class in the Koran in which the translation used was unrecognizable to what i had read before. I showed this translation to a Palestinian and he scoffed at it and said it was a Pakistani translator and they appeal to the British. So I went to the library and got out 4 different translations. What a difference! The Pakistani version said that a man should be firm with his wife. The other translation said that a man should beat his wife.


message 22: by Yazoo (last edited Sep 04, 2012 09:26AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Yazoo Patrice wrote: " The Pakistani version said that a man should be firm with his wife. The other translation said that a man should beat his wife."

when some say: a man should beat his wife...this "should" is actually limited by many conditions
which Mr.Muhannad tried to explain above

so I assure you again that beating is a rare solution and the man shouldn't apply it whenever he likes saying that Qur'an ordered that and forgetting that beating here has many conditions and the true purpose is notifying the wife of misdoing not pain!

After all,the main purpose is for the life inside the house to go upright.

Islam is the religion of mercy and tolerance not injustice and violence!
:)


Muhannad Al-Bukaai Patrice wrote: "Although I can't join the discussion I would like to make a suggestion. Get different translations. I recently took a class in the Koran in which the translation used was unrecognizable to what i..."

patrice thx for mentioning this and let me tell u something about translating quraan
we believe that no language can endure the meanings in quraan as arabic did even in arabic u can notice how many books were written abt it so i advice you to find a translation that was written by a group of natives who understood quraan fully and translated it and to understand quraan u should look at the whole picture as they say and follow why the ayah was said and when and how also u should follow the biography of the prophet




yazoo
please send me a msg i wanna contact u ... thx


Muhannad Al-Bukaai Shanna wrote: "I'd like to know the differences between sunnah and shea'a if you could explain I'd be grateful? Is it something to do with wether, upon Muhammad's death, one group thought they should follow Muham..."

shanna

i promised to get back to this so here we go

i wanna tell u before i give u this link
i just moved to a new city and my books and resources still in boxes so i was looking online to confirm my memory :) i found this article on bbc

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religio...

i read it and its fine i think it explains much .... not everything i want to say but i thought that when i write i will write only good things about sunnis and not everything about shi'a although i know them really good i've read alot about them and read alot for their scholars , anyhow i hope this helps and any question i would be glad to answer and i hope u read quraan again and again to understand it better and if u find anything u dont agree on all u have to do is to ask

thanks


Muhannad Al-Bukaai Patrice wrote: "Although I can't join the discussion I would like to make a suggestion. Get different translations. I recently took a class in the Koran in which the translation used was unrecognizable to what i..."


patrice
i have an advice for u
u can get a translation of quraan by ( yusef ali ) i heard that this is the best translation to english u can know more about the guy from here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah...

although i still insist that the natives are the best to explain

Thanks


message 26: by Ijaz (last edited Oct 19, 2012 11:34PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ijaz Ahmad I suggest two books to all those who want to know about Islam and Quran:
1. Major themes of the Quran by Dr. Fazl ur Rahman
2. Islam: the misunderstood relegion by Muhammad Qutub.

Another suggestion to understand women's position in Islam:
-- Women in Islam by Mazhar ud Din Siddiqui.
If someone has a real sense of research about Islam and Quran these books will help them a lot. Thanks


message 27: by Mohamed (last edited Apr 05, 2013 08:14PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Mohamed I. Elgadi Another good book about Islam written from a balanced Western perspective is "Muhammad" by Maxim Rodonson.

In Arabic, the book of the Sufi sheikh, Mahmmoud Mohammad Taha, is a good different take and interpretation. Sadly, this great Muslim scholar was executed at the age of 76 by the Sudanese Dictator, Numeri, in 1985,. The book name is The Second Message of Islam.


message 28: by [deleted user] (last edited May 01, 2013 04:21AM) (new)

As many of you know, Muslim and Arabic Linguists consider the Quran to be the highest and most perfect model of literature. A literary and linguistic miracle that is impossible for any human being to imitate or compose anything in it likeness!

"...there is no link between the Qur’an and the Arabic language; however this seems impossible because the Qur’an is made up of the Arabic language. On the other hand, every combination of Arabic words and letters have been used to try and imitate the Qur’an [resulting only in failure]. Therefore, this leaves only one conclusion; a Divine explanation is the only coherent explanation for this impossible Arabic literary form. Hence, it logically follows that if the Qur’an is a literary event that lies outside the productive capacity of the Arabic language, i.e. an impossibility, then by definition, it is a miracle."

So putting aside the content, the message and the themes; I advice those who wish to learn why the Quran is considered a miraculous prose in the language in which it was revealed, and those who are curious about how much is lost in the translation, to check the lectures in the link below.

In order:

1- Appreciating The Quran As Literature.

2- Before The Read: Understanding The Miracle and Challenge of the Quran.

3- Linguistic Miracles Of The Quran.

4- Divine Speech Prologue.


(view spoiler)


Nathaniel. Nathaniel. You are most likely correct in your statement on how the Quran is considered. My struggle is that consideration of the religious for all of their books. Take God out of the books, he cannot be contained there. Let the books be books, a tool to aid understanding. Find God in all that surrounds us. Find God within each of us. We are all created from God, we are all the same. Love God, Love yourself, Love others.


back to top

all discussions on this book | post a new topic


Books mentioned in this topic

Does My Head Look Big In This? (other topics)