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Library Manual Additions > Title conventions

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Cait (tigercait) | 5005 comments Edits to the title section of the librarian manual. I've bolded the changes. This feels a little piecemeal -- does anyone have suggestions for making it more systematic?

title

Enter in the official title of the book as it is shown on the cover or binding. Use proper capitalization and punctuation (i.e. do not use all-caps or no-caps unless the author specifically formatted the title that way). Make sure to check your spelling since improperly spelled titles may make the book harder to find in the Goodreads database.

If the book is part of a series, that information should be included within parentheses following the title. The standard accepted format on Goodreads is as follows:

For books:
Title: Subtitle (Series Name, #_)

For graphic novels and comic book collections:
Series Name, Volume _: Title: Subtitle

If a book in a series exists in prose and in graphic novel format, the series of prose books and series of graphic novels should be named separately. "Graphic Novel" may be added to the edition field of the graphic novels as well.

Regarding the formatting of series information in book titles: many different formats have been used to label a series in the past on Goodreads and it created problems with librarians changing formats back and forth. After a discussion in the Goodreads Librarians Group, it was decided that the best way to format a series label was according to the example above. However, if you see a series labeled in a slightly different format, it is not necessary to re-format the label. The most important thing is that the book at least have a correct series name and volume number. But when adding a new series label, please use the accepted format stated above.

When deciding on what series name to use, it is best to use what the author uses. This can often be found by checking the author's official website. If there doesn't appear to be an official series name, it can be helpful to check the GR database to see how the other books in the series are labeled. If no series name is found, think of a label that best names the series in a descriptive, concise way and use that label for all books in the series. It's important that books in a series be labeled with the same series name so other users will know what books go together.

When numbering books in a series, be sure to number them in the correct, accepted order for each edition, bearing in mind that some series get reprinted or translated with new numbering. The best place to find the correct order is often on the author's official website, or in some cases the cover of the book itself will include a volume number. If it cannot be found there, or the author does not have a site, you may be able to find the information via Wikipedia, FantasticFiction, Fictiondb, Google, or Google Books search. Or you can post in the Goodreads Librarians Group to see if anyone else knows or wants to help. It is often helpful to check multiple places to verify series information before beginning series labeling.

Examples of correct titles with series information:
The Unsung Hero (Troubleshooters, #1)
Bad Penny (Cat Dupree, #3)
Death Note, Volume 1: Boredom
Batman: Arkham Asylum

Some books belong to more than one series. When that happens use two different sets of parentheses to note the series information.

Example of a book with multiple series:
His Only Obsession (The Protectors, #28) (Silhouette Intimate Moments, #1455)

Some books contain short stories which are independently parts of series. When that happens use one set of parentheses beginning "Includes:" to note the series information, separating each series with a semicolon.

Example of a short story collection with multiple series:
Must Love Hellhounds (Includes: Guild Hunters, #1.5; Kate Daniels, #3.5; The Guardians, #9)

When a book has a subtitle, the subtitle should separated from the main title by a language-appropriate separator (in English or if the separator is unknown, use a colon (:)) and a single space.

Example of books with subtitles:
Ghosts of Gettysburg: Spirits, Apparitions and Haunted Places of the Battlefield
Alice und das Land im Nadelöhr. Die weiteren Abenteuer von Alice im Wunderland

When the subtitle is the series name, omit and use the format above.

Example of a book with a series "subtitle":
Among the Living (PsyCop, #1)

Not:
Among the Living: A PsyCop Novel (PsyCop, #1)


At times all or part of a series may be released as an omnibus (multiple books re-printed in one book) or a boxed set. The books included in an omnibus or boxed set may or may not be consecutive in a series. The following formats should be used for these items.

Examples of omnibus/boxed set editions:
Goosebumps House of Horrors Boxed Set (Goosebumps, #1, #2, #10, #30)
Seeker's Bane (Kencyrath, #3-4)
The Fairy Charm Collection Vol 3 (Fairy Realm, #8-10)

In addition, "Omnibus" or "Boxed Set" may be added to the 'edition' field.


message 2: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 21480 comments Mod
Cait wrote: "I've bolded the changes."

Bless you.


mlady_rebecca | 575 comments Looks good overall.

Do we need to add something to the anthology section to explain why some series use whole numbers and other series use decimals?

In other words....



Some books contain short stories which are independently parts of series. When that happens use one set of parentheses beginning "Includes:" to note the series information, separating each series with a semicolon.

Example of a short story collection with multiple series:
Must Love Hellhounds (Includes: Guild Hunters, #1.5; Kate Daniels, #3.5; The Guardians, #9)

Notations like Kate Daniels, #3.5 indicate that the short comes between the third and fourth book in the series. Notations like The Guardians, #9 indicate that the short is the ninth book in the series. Whenever possible, follow the author's advice in determining which format to use. But if the author does not provide guidance, consider whether the short is an essential part of the series, or just supplementary reading.


Clerah Looks great! Really makes thing easy to understand.

I do wonder though what to do in the case of prequels?

Let's say for instance Psycop had a prequel, would it be written like

Among the Living (PsyCop, #.5)

or

Among the Living (PsyCop, #0.5)

Also what is done in the instance of multiple shorts between standard books? Do you always start at .5? and then increase from there .6 .7 etc or .55, .56


Deborah | 382 comments Did we come to a consensus on travel book titles? If so, those examples need to be added here as well.
Thanks


Michael | 43 comments Cait wrote: "If the book is part of a series, that information should be included within parentheses following the title. The standard accepted format on Goodreads is as follows:


For books:
Title: Subtitle (Series Name, #_)

For graphic novels and comic book collections:
Series Name, Volume _: Title: Subtitle
"

Would it be better to say

"For books and graphic novels:
Title: Subtitle (Series Name, #_)

For manga and comic book collections:
Series Name, Volume _: Title: Subtitle"?

I am not sure that graphic novels should be formatted the same as manga. For example, this book: Black was made into a graphic novel: Black Graphic Novel: The Birth of Evil.

It seems weird for the novel to be formatted as "Black: The Birth of Evil, (The Circle Series, #1)" and the graphic novel to be formatted as "The Circle Series, Volume 1: Black : The Birth of Evil, A Graphic Novel". I don't actually have the graphic novel, but from looking at the cover, it seems that the subtitle has been modified to make sure that we know that it's a graphic novel.


MissJessie--former librarian (MissJessie) Probably because Graphic Novels are selling really well right now and they want to be sure we know it is one.


message 8: by Catherine (last edited Jul 15, 2010 01:35PM) (new)

Catherine (CatherineEilers) | 45 comments Cait wrote: "Edits to the title section of the librarian manual. I've bolded the changes. This feels a little piecemeal -- does anyone have suggestions for making it more systematic?

Don't know if you're still looking for suggestions, but here are mine, if it's not too late.

As far as making it more systematic, I'd use subsections as follows (or something similar).
TITLE
General rule
Subtitles [or maybe this is part of the general rule:]
Books (except graphic novels) in one series
Books (except graphic novels) in more than one series
Graphic novels

Other suggestions:

(1) I'd find it very helpful to have specific instructions about what to do with volume numbers for multi-volume sets that are NOT series. Sometimes the volumes have individual titles and sometimes not. The ones that don't have individual titles are the ones that are most difficult to figure out how to label according to the current rules. (Volume spelled out or abbreviated? Capitalized? What kind of punctuation between title and volume information?)

(2)I apologize in advance for this part, but the standards-loving professional cataloger in me finds the language too vague in a couple places. I know neither of these things are part of what's currently being revised, but since I'm already making comments, I wanted to address these parts, too. The first is, "Enter in the official title of the book as it is shown on the cover or binding." What makes the title on the cover the official title? Nothing, only that we say it is in these rules. So it's redundant at best and potentially misleading at worst. The second is, Use proper capitalization and punctuation (i.e. do not use all-caps or no-caps unless the author specifically formatted the title that way). While I generally understand what this means, I think what's meant is to use Chicago Manual style and therefore I think many potential arguments could be headed off by specifically saying so. There's nothing inherently IMproper about using all caps or no caps--those styles just aren't in widespread deliberate use.


Cait (tigercait) | 5005 comments Thanks for the suggestions, Catherine! I'll have another go at breaking this down into sections.

For specific instructions on multi-volume sets, perhaps we should raise this question in a new "policies and procedures" thread? I'm not actually sure what the best format for that would be.

For the designation of covers as the official title source, what else would you suggest? If there's a question raised and no one has the book to hand, it makes sense to me to pick a specific fallback, and the cover is the most likely title source to be available online.

For capitalization, the general concept is that both MAGICS PAWN and magics pawn are not to the GR standard, but Magic's Pawn or Magic's pawn are fine. Saying "Chicago Manual style" is not going to clarify here -- most volunteer librarians aren't going to know what that guideline actually is! (I know I'm not entirely sure of it.) Maybe we should just provide examples.


Catherine (CatherineEilers) | 45 comments Good points, Cait. I don't think I was entirely clear about my thoughts on "official" titles. While there are pros and cons to using the cover title as the official title for GoodReads, I don't have a problem with that in itself. I just think that the current wording of the rule, "Enter in the official title of the book as it is shown on the cover or binding," is confusing because it implies that the cover title is official by some standard outside of GR, when actually GR is just setting its own standard here. Being clear that out of many interpretations of what might be the "real" title of a book, GR is choosing this one for consistency in its own database will help GR librarians apply the rule. That is, GR librarians don't have to try to figure out which title is more official at all--that has already been decided in these rules. They just have to enter what's on the cover.

I think the rule could be revised in one of two ways:
(1) "Enter the title of the book as it is shown on the cover or binding."
or, (2) "GoodReads considers the cover or binding to be the official source of the title. Enter the title as it is shown there." (Or something similar.)

I like the first way better because it's much shorter, but the second way would work just as well.

And pretty much the same thing with capitalization--using the word "proper" brings in the librarians' own interpretation of what's proper, instead of just telling them what to do. I'd revise to get rid of that word or to say that it's GR's proper capitalization that's being defined. Although the GR rules do follow those in the Chicago Manual of Style, I see your point that not every GR librarian is going to have easy access to it. However, I would be more specific about which styles of capitalization are acceptable. They do have names: sentence case (e.g. Magic's pawn) and headline or title case (e.g. Magic's Pawn). I admit that the latter name is confusing because newspaper headlines are often in sentence case and a title in title case is a tautology. But even if they're not given names in these rules, I think that each acceptable style should be given a brief description, and yes, examples would be most helpful for everyone!


Another suggestion I thought of when considering this rule--in which multiple possibilities are correct--is that perhaps the rules should say not to change what has already been done unless it is clearly in error. That might be a bit radical for GR, where librarians tend to "clean up" various areas, but on the other hand, it would head off editing wars between librarians who want all of their books to appear in a consistent style. ("I want all my books in sentence case!" "Well, I have this book, too, and I want all my books in headline case!")


message 11: by Cait (last edited Jul 24, 2010 09:20PM) (new)

Cait (tigercait) | 5005 comments Okay, here's a stab at re-writing the whole section. Thoughts (other than "wow, this is terrifyingly long")? In particular, any suggestions on formats in use for nonfiction?

title

The title field is used for the title of the book, for the subtitle if the book has one, and for any series information about the book. Other information, such as binding, edition number, or language, should be moved out of the title field into fields specific to that information.

title

The title should match the title shown on the cover of the book, if that information is available. Preferred capitalization is "title capitalization", but "sentence capitalization" is also used; only use all uppercase, all lowercase, or other capitalization if the book specifies it (note that many titles appear to be in all uppercase letters on the cover but are not otherwise capitalized this way, so this is an exception to the "use the cover" rule). If a title includes accented characters, apostrophes, quotation marks, or punctuation, include these in the title. Do not remove definite or indefinite articles such as "the" from the beginning of titles; this is handled by the sort title, which is a different field (see below). Double-check the spelling!

Examples of titles:
Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone
The cathedral and the bazaar
Guards! Guards!
Le deuxième sexe

subtitle

The subtitle should also match the cover of the book. Bear in mind that books are sometimes republished with different subtitles, so a subtitle for one edition should not be assumed to be present on all editions. When a book has a subtitle, the subtitle should separated from the main title by a language-appropriate separator (in English or if the separator is unknown, use a colon) and a single space. The phrase "A Novel" may or may not be considered a subtitle; the cover of the edition should be the guide.

Examples of subtitles:
Anne Frank: The Diary of a Young Girl
Ghosts of Gettysburg: Spirits, Apparitions and Haunted Places of the Battlefield
Alice und das Land im Nadelöhr. Die weiteren Abenteuer von Alice im Wunderland

When a subtitle is the series name, it can be omitted (see series formatting below).

Example of a book with a series "subtitle":
Among the Living (PsyCop, #1)

Not:
Among the Living: A PsyCop Novel (PsyCop, #1)

series

There are several formats in use for series information. The commonest is to include it within parentheses following the title. The format should be series name, a comma, the number symbol (preferred) or other indication of volume, and the number of the book within the series.

Format:
Title: Subtitle (Series, #_)

Examples:
The Unsung Hero (Troubleshooters, #1)
Alanna: The First Adventure (Song of the Lioness, #1)
A Time of Exile (Deverry Westlands, Book 1)

Another format, particularly common for graphic novels and nonfiction, places the series information first and the title second, separated by a language-appropriate separator (in English or if the separator is unknown, use a colon) and a single space. This is particularly useful for collections which have no title at all other than the series and number. Caution: it can be difficult to distinguish between "title: subtitle" and "series: title" when combining books!

Format:
Series, Volume _: Title: Subtitle

Example:
Death Note, Volume 1: Boredom
Fullmetal Alchemist, Volume 01
National Geographic Photography Field Guide: People and Portraits

For this format there is not a standard convention for choosing between "Volume", "Vol.", or any other method of marking the series numbering (and this will be language-dependent as well), and the comma between the series and the number is suggested but not required.

Examples with different numbering conventions:
The Year's Best Science Fiction: 25th Annual Collection
The Best American Short Stories 2005
Amazons II
Hunger Games, Tome 2 : L'embrasement

Some books are split into multiple parts for separate publication. For these books, format them as if the title were the series, using either series format.

Examples of books in parts:
El Código Engima (Criptonomicón, #1)
Les Misérables, tome 2 : Cosette
Moby Dick part 1 of 2

Some books belong to more than one series. Use the first series format with two different sets of parentheses to note the series information.

Example of a book with multiple series:
His Only Obsession (The Protectors, #28) (Silhouette Intimate Moments, #1455)

Some books contain short stories which are independently parts of series. Use the first series format with one set of parentheses and begin with "Includes:" to note the series information, separating each series with a semicolon.

Example of a short story collection with multiple series:
Must Love Hellhounds (Includes: Guild Hunters, #1.5; Kate Daniels, #3.5; The Guardians, #9)

When deciding on what series name to use, it is best to use what the author uses. This can often be found by checking the author's official website. If there doesn't appear to be an official series name, it can be helpful to check the GR database to see how the other books in the series are labeled. If no series name is found, think of a label that best names the series in a descriptive, concise way and use that label for all books in the series. It's important that books in a series be labeled with the same series name so other users will know what books go together; however, series names may change in translation or with re-printing, and the series name for each edition should always be edition-specific. Spell out the series name in full unless the book cover uses only an abbreviated name. Do not include type of series unless this is part of the series name.

Examples of series names:
Twilight
The Lord of the Rings
The Vampire Chronicles

Not:
The Twilight Series
Lord of the Rings
Vampire

If a series is a part of a larger series, indicate the series name with the larger series, a colon, and then the smaller series.

Examples of books with series grouping:
Winds of Change (Valdemar: Mage Winds, #2)
Many Splendors (Star Trek: S.C.E., #66) (Star Trek: S.C.E.: What's Past, #6)

When numbering books in a series, be sure to number them in the correct, accepted order for each edition, bearing in mind that some series get reprinted or translated with new numbering. The best place to find the correct order is often on the author's official website, or in some cases the cover of the book itself will include a volume number. If it cannot be found there, or the author does not have a site, you may be able to find the information via Wikipedia, FantasticFiction, Fictiondb, Google, or Google Books search. Or you can post in the Goodreads Librarians Group to see if anyone else knows or wants to help. It is often helpful to check multiple places to verify series information before beginning series labeling. A common convention for marking short stories which fall between numbered books is to use decimal numbering.

Books do not need to be numbered in a series. Note that series information in the first format which does not contain a number will not show in certain places on the site, but will always show on the book page.

Examples of unnumbered books in series:
Divine Beginnings (Partholon, Prequel)
On Liberty and Other Essays (Oxford World's Classics)
Batman: Arkham Asylum

At times multiple books may be released as an omnibus (multiple books reprinted in one book) or a boxed set. If multiple books have been re-printed together which are not part of a series and the edition does not have its own title, all of the included titles should be listed in the title field. If the edition has a separate title, the list of included titles may be treated as a subtitle or it may be omitted (if it is omitted, this information should be listed in the book description field). When titles are listed, the preferred separator is a space, a forward slash, and another space; other acceptable separators are commas and ampersands. Series information where consecutive should be formatted as the number symbol, the first number, a dash, and the final number; where nonconsecutive it should be formatted as the number symbol, the first number, a comma and space, the number symbol, the next number, etc. (In addition, "Omnibus" or "Boxed Set" may be added to the 'edition' field.)

Examples of books in omnibus/boxed set editions:
Alice in Wonderland / Black Beauty
The Neil Gaiman Audio Collection
The Scarpetta Collection: Postmortem / Body of Evidence (Kay Scarpetta, #1-2)
Goosebumps House of Horrors Boxed Set (Goosebumps, #1, #2, #10, #30)
Seeker's Bane (Kencyrath, #3-4)
The Fairy Charm Collection, Vol 3 (Fairy Realm, #8-10)
XXXHolic, Volumes 1-3



This Is Not The Michael You're Looking For | 949 comments Looks pretty good! Minor comments:

* Underline the "Example of..." in each section so it stands out from the examples

* Under subtitle and series, I would not refer to "(...colon (:))" It's very awkward looking. I would remove the () around the colon, leaving it separated with spaces, such as "(...colon : )". A bit unorthodox, but I think clearer.

* Under subtitle, I would add a comment to also leave out things like ": A Novel" which is not a series subtitle, per se

* Under series I would EXPLICITLY state (not just have it in the example) that the series info should include the comma and # separator between the series name and the volume number. Too many people ignore this or think it's optional.


Catherine (CatherineEilers) | 45 comments This looks great! It's obvious you've done a lot of work.

Should there be an inclusion about whether or not to include subtitles like "A Novel"? I think there was a thread about it, but I don't remember what the consensus was.


Catherine (CatherineEilers) | 45 comments This Is Not The Michael You're Looking For wrote: Under subtitle and series, I would not refer to "(...colon (:))"

Another option would be to use, "(...colon [:])." I know it's Modern Language Association's standard to nest using alternating round and square brackets, and that's what I did for papers in high school and college. In other contexts, I have also used multiple parentheses/round brackets within others, as is done here. Both options seem unpopular, though. Maybe what's in parentheses could be made a separate sentence, and the problem could be avoided altogether?


Cait (tigercait) | 5005 comments Thanks, NTMichael and Catherine! I've made some changes on your comments. (I decided to just not spell out what a colon was, given the number of other symbols I was leaving undemonstrated and the ways in which librarians are supposed to use the power of Google in our daily lives anyway. The consensus on ": A Novel" was pretty much that no one felt very strongly about it.)


message 16: by Cait (last edited Jul 24, 2010 08:52PM) (new)

Cait (tigercait) | 5005 comments Argh, where did my edits go? I can see the "last edited 16 minutes ago" note, but none of my changes are showing!


Lisa Vegan (LisaVegan) | 2365 comments Cait wrote: "Argh, where did my edits go? I can see the "last edited 16 minutes ago" note, but none of my changes are showing!"

Cait, There's never been a delay before???

Perhaps it's a bug, and you need to report it in the Feedback group?


Lisa Vegan (LisaVegan) | 2365 comments http://www.goodreads.com/librarian/us...

One from 4 min. ago shows; the next closest are hours ago.

You've made many more edits?


Cait (tigercait) | 5005 comments I've just re-made my edits (and saved a local copy!) -- I'll see if I can figure out what's going on and make a report in feedback.


message 20: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 21480 comments Mod
Looks really good. :)

So is this in add-to-the-manual state? I might have time this afternoon, if so . . .


Cait (tigercait) | 5005 comments rivka wrote: "Looks really good. :)

So is this in add-to-the-manual state? I might have time this afternoon, if so . . ."


Seems like everyone's in agreement still! :)


message 22: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 21480 comments Mod
Of course, I didn't have time that afternoon. ;)

*crosses fingers for this Sunday*


Cait (tigercait) | 5005 comments Hah, and it looks like a great big swathe of this just got invalidated by the long-awaited series object!

*goes back to drafting board*


message 24: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 21480 comments Mod
So it's actually a GOOD thing I haven't had time to edit?

Procrastination wins again! ;)


Lee | 45 comments Hi guys
Do we have a preferred method for the title format when there are two subtitles? Do we want to separate the second "subtitle" by a dash or another colon?

This is not a great example but it's the one I have for immediacy:
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/62...
versus
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11...
Thanks for your advice.


message 26: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 21480 comments Mod
I don't think we have a policy for that. In this specific case, I'd personally opt for the second one.


Lee | 45 comments rivka wrote: "I don't think we have a policy for that. In this specific case, I'd personally opt for the second one."

Thank you Rivka - I'll adopt the second method as an unofficial rule for consistency. It's been a burning question. Much appreciated.


Experiment BL626 | 352 comments Is it possible for Goodreads to PM all GR-Librarian of this new update to the rules? Not every GR-Librarians frequently come or join this group... Hell, a few have never even read the Librarian Manual with some of the undo corrections I had to make. And I'm not kidding you.

Seriously, I strongly urge Goodreads to PM GR-Librarians of this new update to the rule. Please x infinity.


message 29: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 21480 comments Mod
Why would I PM everyone about an UNofficial rule that a single librarian has accepted for her own guideline?


message 30: by Experiment BL626 (last edited Nov 24, 2011 10:59PM) (new)

Experiment BL626 | 352 comments rivka wrote: "Why would I PM everyone about an UNofficial rule that a single librarian has accepted for her own guideline?"

This is unofficial? O>o Why not make it official?


Peter (pete_C) | 388 comments Cait wrote: "For the designation of covers as the official title source, what else would you suggest? If there's a question raised and no one has the book to hand, it makes sense to me to pick a specific fallback, and the cover is the most likely title source to be available online."

I know this is probably too late to bring up, but I personally feel that the cover of a book is one of the last places to check to find the official title of a book. Among other reasons for this are 1) publisher's blurbs added to the title that are indistinguishable from subtitles, 2) titles placed at top of cover with the subtitle placed at the bottom so that it can not be told apart from the publisher's blurbs in the middle, 3) subtitles placed above the title (very common), and 4) subtitles that are omitted from the cover (possibly because the publisher or cover artist considered them to be too long).

If one has the book in question to hand, I would first check the Title page and the Copyrights page. (The Library of Congress Cataloging-in-Publication Data can usually be found on the Copyrights page.)

In any case, the book can be looked up at the Library of Congress at http://catalog.loc.gov/.

Not to be difficult, but I have often found that finding the cover to an older book on-line to be near impossible. A look at our collection (or at Amazon, for that matter) will show a fairly large collection of books for which there is no cover available.

Am I alone in this feeling?


Catherine (CatherineEilers) | 45 comments Peter wrote: "I know this is probably too late to bring up, but I personally feel that the cover of a book is one of the last places to check to find the official title of a book."

I agree with you up to a point, but I also see the GoodReads point of view, too.

In libraries, the primary source for the title of a book would be the title page, and a library cataloger would make a note if the title is taken from a different source. There are several reasons for that, I think, but some are that the title page is more apt to reflect the author's intentions rather than the publisher's marketing, that the publisher may change the cover from printing to printing of an edition--sometimes with changes to the title, and that the cover may be lost altogether if the library has the book rebound (or, more commonly seen with older books, if a previous owner has had it bound or rebound).

But library catalogers also have a general guideline to catalog only from the "title in hand." If you don't have the book in front of you, you don't make changes to the record. GoodReads librarians operate a lot differently--they go looking for titles they can combine based on evidence they can find online, and that's a lot more likely to be a picture of the cover. At least that's my understanding of the reasoning behind the practice here. GoodReads also doesn't have the possibility for librarians to add the cover title as well as the title page title, which is actually what would be done in a library if they differ. One and only one can be chosen, which changes the scope of the question a little bit.

And, just FYI, in any case cataloging-in-publication data should never be considered as official anything. That information is sent by the publisher to Library of Congress (or whichever library, it's most commonly LC, but not always) before the book has been published, and it always represents a rough draft of what the publisher believes the data will be. Very often major information, including title, changes between LC's creation of the pre-publication record (which is what appears in the book) and the actual publication.


Peter (pete_C) | 388 comments Catherine wrote: In libraries, the primary source for the title of a book would be the title page, and a library cataloger would make a note if the title is taken from a different source."

Thanks for the heads-up about the cataloging-in-publication data. I didn't know that.

So by what rationale should the cover be the first place from which to get the official title?

I would think any of the following should be considered before resorting to the cover:
The book's title page
The publisher's website
The Library of Congress's website
The author's website
Books in Print
About the Author
Contemporary Authors
etc., etc., etc.
I see nothing wrong with using the cover (if available) as a fall-back, but, due to the reasons I cited in #31, I would think any of these would be considered a better primary source.


message 34: by David (last edited Jan 18, 2012 06:19PM) (new)

David (aberrant80) | 13 comments Is this being formalised yet? I find the proposal a bit inconsistent for books with more than one series. In the proposed changes, there's now a semicolon-separated series listing, and a each-series-in-their-own-parentheses variation.

I'm more partial to using semicolons given how only one series ever gets hyperlinked when viewing a book. But until the manual gets updated, I don't want to start changing things to using semicolons.

Oh, and btw, is "Graphic Novel" normally put into "Edition"? I've just replaced a "paperback" as a graphic novel... I guess that's wrong then.


message 35: by rivka, Librarian Moderator (new)

rivka | 21480 comments Mod
Actually, some of this was displaced by the series feature, I think.


message 36: by K, (new)

K, Nz | 137 comments Hi,
Thanks to rivka for reminding me it is ok to ask for help. As a new librarian I'm wanting to do things correctly, though in a series I am editing the publisher info seems to have book name: series title and number, and then (of course) there is the very helpful series link on GR - which is fab, by the way.
I wasn't sure whether it was ok to change the publisher title info, though I note

"Example of a book with a series "subtitle":
Among the Living (PsyCop, #1)

Not:
Among the Living: A PsyCop Novel (PsyCop, #1)"

and will do that for consistency, and I have checked with the author as well ( would this be where I use the comment, or note, or not bother ?). Apologies to any librarians who have been trying to sort it as well.

When there is a short story that is a prequel, is the series generally listed chronologically? As a reader I know I would prefer it.... if the author doesn't want short stories numbered, that positioning tool is great.

Thanks for any help/comment :)


Paula (Paulaan) | 4346 comments Would help if you could link to a book


Deborah | 382 comments K, wrote: "Hi,
Thanks to rivka for reminding me it is ok to ask for help. As a new librarian I'm wanting to do things correctly, though in a series I am editing the publisher info seems to have book name: se..."


The series name only needs to be listed once. "A novel" can also be removed from any title. Yes, prequels are usually listed as .5 and please uncheck the primary work box for prequels.


message 39: by Natasa (last edited Mar 10, 2012 03:47PM) (new)

Natasa (natasalikes) | 141 comments Hi, I have a question. Some graphic novel adaptations of books are using this format:

Michael wrote:
"For books and graphic novels:
Title: Subtitle (Series Name, #_)"


But for graphic novel adaptations, Series Name usually contains "The Graphic Novel", and since the subtitle is also "The Graphic Novel" that means it's repeated twice in the title, like this:
Title: The Graphic Novel (Series Name: The Graphic Novel, #_)

There are a few graphic novel series titled this way:

Artemis Fowl: The Graphic Novel (Artemis Fowl: The Graphic Novel, #1)
Stormbreaker: The Graphic Novel (Alex Rider: The Graphic Novel, #1)

For this kind of adaptations isn't it kind of pointless to include "The Graphic Novel" subtitle after the title since it's already after the series name?


Cait (tigercait) | 5005 comments Natasa wrote: "There are a few graphic novel series titled this way:

Artemis Fowl: The Graphic Novel (Artemis Fowl: The Graphic Novel, #1)
Stormbreaker: The Graphic Novel (Alex Rider: The Graphic Novel, #1)

For this kind of adaptations isn't it kind of pointless to include "The Graphic Novel" subtitle after the title since it's already after the series name?"


Huh, that's an interesting question!

On a purely practical level, it causes a problem for librarians when two of an author's books have the same title but are different books -- the only way to keep them from ending up combined is to plaster them with librarians' notes, and even then there are mistakes.

I would be willing to cede practicality, though, if there are strong feelings about philosophy....


Peter (pete_C) | 388 comments Natasa wrote: "For this kind of adaptations isn't it kind of pointless to include "The Graphic Novel" subtitle after the title since it's already after the series name?
"


At the present moment, it isn't pointless. The series name is not always displayed after the title; if it wasn't there you couldn't tell the graphic novel from the text version.

However, in the future, when the GR devs get a chance to always display the title consistently, ...


vicki_girl | 2754 comments Cait wrote: "On a purely practical level, it causes a problem for librarians when two of an author's books have the same title but are different books -- the only way to keep them from ending up combined is to plaster them with librarians' notes, and even then there are mistakes."

This my concern. On the combine page, the parenthetical information is not displayed as part of the "work" title. It is shown on the individual editions, but people don't always look very carefully, OR read the notes. I actually left it as it is for the Alex Rider Graphic Novels for this very reason.


Paul (Paul_Vitols) | 8 comments Peter wrote: "I would think any of the following should be considered before resorting to the cover:

The book's title page..."


For what it's worth, I agree with Peter. I'm seeking to update the record of the Britannica Great Books edition of Marx. The book's cover (I have the book by me) simply has the word "Marx" on the spine; "Marx" appears likewise on the half-title inside. But the title page reads: "Capital, by Karl Marx; Manifesto of the Communist Party, by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels".

While the simple label "Marx" on the spine makes sense in the context of the full set of 54 volumes, it does not do justice to this book as a stand-alone item, for the book does not contain everything written by Marx, and one of the volume's authors is omitted from the spine.

So I would like to support the idea of the title page as the first and best guide to the actual content of a book. Possibly it might even be OK to allow librarians some discretion in selecting the most appropriate and informative presentation of the title?


Meredith (McGraced) | 63 comments David wrote: "is "Graphic Novel" normally put into "Edition"? I've just replaced a "paperback" as a graphic novel... I guess that's wrong then. "

I'm curious about this as well. Paperback doesn't seem a good fit as type for graphic novels.

Also curious what the current preferred way of identifying graphic novels and if they should be their own series. Happy to go with, for example, "Guards! Guards!: the Graphic Novel" and to note it as part of a "Discworld Graphic Novel" series, but before I get carried away, I wanted to double check. Thanks!


Cait (tigercait) | 5005 comments Graphic novels' bindings should be noted the same as any other books' bindings: if the covers are hard then they're hardcovers and if they're paper then they're paperbacks. Since graphic novels are not combined with other sorts of books, the designation "graphic novel" isn't edition-specific information and doesn't belong in the edition field either. The phrase "graphic novel" is usually part of the title when it's an adaptation, as in "Guards! Guards!: the Graphic Novel".


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Books mentioned in this topic

Black: The Birth of Evil (other topics)
Black: The Birth of Evil (other topics)
Artemis Fowl: The Graphic Novel (other topics)
Stormbreaker: The Graphic Novel (other topics)