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Movies & TV > Black Man/White Woman Or (Other Race Women) In Movies

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message 1: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 5995 comments Mod
I've seen in a book where Samuel L. Jackson and Naomi Watts will be in a movie, where they are an interracial couple. I don't know the name of the movie. I have seen their picture in the book and seen that they will be an interracial couple.

I don't know how the movie will do at the box office, whenever it comes out.

Do you think that Hollywood finds it easier to make an interracial movie about a black man and white woman or even black man/other race woman than to make a movie about a black woman/white man/or other race man?


message 2: by Michelle, Mod with the Bod (new)

Michelle Gilmore | 3384 comments Mod
I think it was DL Hughley who said in an interview some years ago that his tv show was delayed b/c the network wanted his wife to be a woman of color, but not an african american woman. I hope I'm not wrong about it being him, but I do know that it was a well known comedian that said that about their show, and also that hollywood often would rather pair an AA male with a non-AA woman of color. Since then, I have noticed that in quite a few movies. Maybe it all goes back to what that Hollywood idea of beauty/ sex appeal, I don't know. I do hope that interracial couples, regardless of the pairing, become more common on the big screen.


message 3: by Davina (new)

Davina D. | 796 comments Absolutely, and this is something I've heard many times from people who are active within the industry.

Black men with white women is for more acceptable in Hollywood than Black woman / white men (at least on screen). IR dating of ALL combination is rampant in LA, NY and most other cities where film is a dominant industry.

Much of the hypocrisy is due to the notion that 1) white men and black women don't usually find each other attractive, 2) the stereotype that many white, middle America people -- which happens to include most (male) studio heads -- have of black women. Some believe that black women don't have enough sex appeal to inspire lust in (white) men (who make up the majority of movie goers). Some believe that black women are too strong and thus do not make good "fantasy" heroines (again this is in regard to the male notion of what a fantasy heroine is), and others just simply believe that IR dating is wrong no matter the combination. But since Hollywood is mostly run by men, they're more ready to accept minority men dating outside of their race over women doing the same(consider the social hierarchy where white men are on top, then white women, black men, then black women).

I know the movie you're talking about though its name escapes me at the moment. I'm curious to see what sort of on screen chemistry these two have. In my opinion, they make a very unlikely couple.


message 4: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 5995 comments Mod
Michelle wrote: "I think it was DL Hughley who said in an interview some years ago that his tv show was delayed b/c the network wanted his wife to be a woman of color, but not an african american woman. I hope I'm..."

I want more interracial pairing in movies too.

I would love to see more black women with white men or other race men. Asian men will do just fine, if there's not a white man.


message 5: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 5995 comments Mod
I wish they would do an interracial show for the web. I've found out a month ago that they have a popular show on the web starring Billy Dee Williams and this show has been on for a while. I think like a year or two.

I think that since it's hard to get interracial movies and shows on the big screen, then hit the web. Hit Youtube. Hit straight to DVD.

We need more interracial movies and TV shows.


message 6: by Stacy-Deanne (new)

Stacy-Deanne Stacy-Deanne (wwwgoodreadscomstacydeanne) Samuel and Naomi? Ewwww! Samuel L. Jackson is old enough to be Naomi Watts' father! LOL! Not an appetizing couple if you ask me.

Best Wishes!

http://www.stacy-deanne.net


message 7: by Stacy-Deanne (new)

Stacy-Deanne Stacy-Deanne (wwwgoodreadscomstacydeanne) Do you think that Hollywood finds it easier to make an interracial movie about a black man and white woman or even black man/other race woman than to make a movie about a black woman/white man/or other race man?

Arch, I gotta say, I'm not even a black man and I know that black men don't get NO respect in Hollywood. They get less than even big women. There only a handful of black men who star in big movies and who you can consider this decade's big stars compared to many black women (including stars who've been out and rising stars). Now a days there seems to be a black woman in everything and more and more, they are paired with white men. I don't think it's easy for black men actors at all and in fact it seems to be worse than before. Remember for years we only had Denzel until Wesley and Lawrence Fishburne. Then Wesley fell off and here came Will and Samuel, LOL!

I'm not counting comedians, I'm counting black actors who do major roles and who are usually the stars of the picture. Other than Will Smith, most of the others (even Denzel) have gone to supporting status.

But look at the popularity of black ladies in film. It's exploding and it's about darn time. And these films don't even think of pairing these black women with black men because they pair these ladies with the major stars and like I said, you don't have but a few major black male stars. Other than Tyler Perry (I know, I know, don't dare bring him up, LOL), you don't see a lot of B/B couples in movies or television. You see more and more BW/WM and it's gonna be even more because it's very popular and rising. I think BW/WM will soon become the most common IR type relationship.

They say (what I'v heard for years) is that for some reason, it's easy for the public to accept the BW/WM pairing onscreen and that even in this day, some folks still find it uncomfortable to see a black man kissing on a white woman. But it's like the black woman and white man is easier to accept or either, you don't seem to focus on their race but on the characters and maybe that's why they are portrayed more often. I think most people see a BM/WW and that's all they look at, the race. But people often lose themselves in the BW/WM relationship.

And let me say this, I get a lot of fanmail and most of the readers that write me are white women. They all said they loved the BW/WM relationship in my last book. I did research and you know what, a lot of WW are reading these books. I thought it was mainly black women but a lot are reading the BW/WM books. Some readers said, they enjoy them because authors of these books (when done correctly) don't focus on the race as much as in other IR couples in books.

I've asked a lot of women, black and white if they've read BM/WW IR books. Most said no. A lot of them said, they never saw them. Some said they would read them if the plot was good but most liked the BW/WM pairing. Again, don't ask me why. Now I know why I like it, LOL! But I guess people like it for different reasons.

The BM/WW relationship is not that popular onscreen and it's not that popular at all seems to be in books. Most IR publishers don't even want that. They want the woman to be black ALWAYS. So that tells us how popular the BW (in an IR relationship with any race) seems to be more popular in literature now.

I've researched this for a while because it interested me too. It's the same in cinema, you guys. The WW/BM pairing isn't accepted the way the BW/WM is. You might see it every once in a while, but not half as much as the WM/BW coupling.

Best Wishes!

http://www.stacy-deanne.net


message 8: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 5995 comments Mod
I hardly see bw/wm in movies. Most of the time the black man in the movie is not with a black woman.


message 9: by new_user (new)

new_user Stacy-Deanne wrote: "Samuel and Naomi? Ewwww!"

My sentiments exactly.


message 10: by Stacy-Deanne (last edited May 18, 2010 04:30PM) (new)

Stacy-Deanne Stacy-Deanne (wwwgoodreadscomstacydeanne) Another point I'd like to bring up.

Do you notice that most times when you see a WW star with a BM star in a film, they are mainly friends? They might be close friends, but they rarely are lovers? They are either police detective partners, work at a hospital together, or come together to solve a crime, etc. You might get the pairing, but you don't get them written romantically? Noticed this? I have.

I could name many examples but one was that movie, I forgot the name (something Bones) with Denzel Washington and Angelina Jolie (AJ's not exactly white because she's mixed with Indian and stuff, but she's not black so I'm gonna use her, LOL). Anyway, she was attracted to Denzel but the film didn't pursue it. I bet you if that had been Halle Berry and Hugh Jackman, they'd been kissing the entire movie, LOL. I'd bet you!

Look at it when you got WM stars and BW stars onscreen. Most times, usually, they are portrayed as a romantic couple even if the plot doesn't call for it. They are shown kissing, having sex, everything a couple does. But when you see WW and BM onscreen, you hardly see this at all. They are mostly just friends. They might flirt a little but other than that, that's it. A few might kiss, but you rarely see a BM take a WW to bed in films. It has happened in a few films but not half as many as the BW/WM films.

But when it's a BW/WM, they seem to be more accepting to go all the way because I guess they feel this is something the public can relate to more. I don't know, but that's what might be a reason.

Best Wishes!

http://www.stacy-deanne.net


message 11: by Arch , Mod (last edited May 18, 2010 04:32PM) (new)

Arch  | 5995 comments Mod
Stacy-Deanne,

Maybe I have missed a lot of movies, but can you name the bw/wm movies you are talking about.

I know about Something New and Lakeview Terror.


message 12: by JC (new)

JC (ainathiel) I will admit it, I not all that interest in BM/WW books. I am sure there are good stories but it doesn't appeal to me as much as BW/WM or other race.
I also believe that although black women go through cycles in Hollywood, meaning that at any given time a fresh new brown face will be in every movie for two years and then she will be in a movie that flops and she is out. Black man may find it harder to get in with Hollywood but once they are in they don't get kicked out, unless they are caught doing something horrendous.
I am really irritated with my bias because in real life I don't care about it, people can love who they want to.


message 13: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 5995 comments Mod
I have never read a book about a black man and white woman. I'm a big fan of black woman/white man stories and even TV pairing and movies.

I don't have anything against a black man being with a white woman or another woman from a different race.


message 14: by Davina (new)

Davina D. | 796 comments Oh I agree that Samuel and Naomi dont match. What on earth could those casting people have been thinking? Anyway, I have to agree with Arch and NU. The BMWW combination is and have been far more accepted on screen than any any other IR depictions. And men of any race have always had it easier than women in general, even white women. That's not really news. Black women may be more popular in niche markets, but black men are more accepted in the mainstream.


message 15: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 5995 comments Mod
I hate that they cancelled Lincoln Heights. I have watched it from the first season.

Charles and Cassie.


message 16: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 5995 comments Mod
Taye Diggs plays Dr. Sam on Private Practice. His character has a love interested played by Kate Walsh (Dr. Addison.)

I don't watch Private Practice, but Taye Diggs was on Chelsea Lately the other night and they showed a clip of the two doctors in an elevator.

Blair Underwood character on LA Law had a white love interest.

An actress was on Chelsea Thursday night. I forget her name. She played a love interest to that rapper 50 cent in a movie and Chelsea brought up the sex scene.

On the new Cry Baby, where John Travolta plays the mother role, Amanda Bynes character is going with a black guy.


message 17: by JC (new)

JC (ainathiel) I think we are all avoiding an elephant which is stereotypes. The generic view of how the world sees us.

I don't think white women have a problem with bw/wm pairings the same way we feel about the opposite because they are considered the ideal beauty. Ask any body in the fashion industry a blond white blue eyed model is asked for more and has a longer career than a brown skin girl.
If anyone watch's confessions of a Call Girl on Showtime the black English Girl went on a rant with the madame for the same reason.

I agree that our concern may be exaggerated but it isn't base-less. It is controversial for a bm/ww pairing and I think writers put it out there for that reason alone. It is happening more and more.

As for sci-fi, it is a normal thing, I think in sci-fi for bw/wm pairs are part of the exotic. FYI for everyone, the first IR kiss was on Star Trek. Capt. Kirk was "forced" to put one on Uhuru. Kirk and Uhuru relationship has been fanfiction fodder for generations. In the movie when it looked like she and Spock is a couple, shocked many myself included. I personally feel bad for Nurse.

Another thing I would like to say, I don't think any movie in the 1950-1980 maybe that had bw/wm pairs, should be included as bw/wm romantic interest. Especially since many were filled with the tragic mulatto woman confused about who and what she was. Who ultimately died, sacrificing herself or at the end of the movie so that her white male love interest could run off with the perfect virginal white woman for a HEA.


message 18: by JC (new)

JC (ainathiel) I didn't say I agree with white women being the ideal beauty. That would be total hypocrisy to myself. I am just stating a generic fact from the modeling industry and Hollywood as well.

As a black woman in the United States, I can't speak for any black man but I do feel like there is a total disconnect on what black women think is important and what black men think is important.

Believe it or not, Every woman on this planet has an issue with another woman on this planet. Every culture has its ideal beauty. ie. Asian women spending thousands on eye lid surgery.

As I said before this problem stems from the stereotypes that are prevalent in the culture and there exceptions like black woman "not" being attractive enough but still being seductive vamp or the alter ego a prostitute.

How should Hispanic women and Asian women feel about this issue? I really can' say. I know in 1950's they were stand in tragic figures as well. In some cases I think they are harboring the same angst many black women are feeling as well.

If we look at things from a financial perspective, the industries Hollywood, publishing are only looking for what will sell. Black women read books, some of these books are erotic, some are christian fiction, some are thug-life based. These are all subgenres that kind of exploded on the literary scene for black people. For a little while IR books featuring bw/wm were in the group as well. I think it has died down a little.

I don't know how it is in other parts of the world, but in the United States single black women over the age of 30 has reached double digits. There are mitigating circumstances I am sure but for many Black woman, you are most likely to catch a black man holding the hand of white woman, asian woman etc. (nothing is wrong with that) So when I chose to read a book involving IR characters I prefer it be black woman with a white man, asian man, native american etc.

As for the beautiful glowing brown skin of romantic black women, the equal opposite is the pale near translucent skin of white women. I don't think you can write a romance story without graphically expounding on the good looks of the main characters. It happens in all the books IR and regular black romance. No one will see the point of falling in love with a troll or hunchback. It is not a fanfiction standard, just a romance standard. Have you also noticed that all the lead male characters in romance stories are over six feet. Short guys get no play.


message 19: by Dee (new)

Dee (Joycee) | 102 comments Melissa wrote: "I agree with Ms Stacey Deanne. I am new to this group(and I'm a fan of bw/wm in the media) but anyways I have noticed that bw/wm is being handed to us on a silver platter(excl. monster's ball).
Whe..."



message 20: by Dee (new)

Dee (Joycee) | 102 comments I looked over the list movies, but didn't see "Made in America," staring Whoopi Goldberg and Ted Danson. Remember how much controversy that movie started?


message 21: by JC (new)

JC (ainathiel) Dee wrote: "I looked over the list movies, but didn't see "Made in America," staring Whoopi Goldberg and Ted Danson. Remember how much controversy that movie started?"

I believe Whoopi and Ted whole relationship was controversial. People needed to be so out of their business. No one mentioned the various celebrity black men in relationships with white women but Whoopi and Ted made news. Much like Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore.


message 22: by Tina (new)

Tina | 1198 comments I don't think Whoopi and Ted's relationship by itself was the controversy, after all Whoopi dated Frank Langella right after Ted and that barely raised an eyebrow.

The controversy stemmed from the fact that he appeared in black-face at a comedy roast and she not only have endorsed it but seemed to have conceived the idea.


TheFountainPenDiva | 1154 comments There's a delicious irony about the entire subject considering the black women and asian men statistically are the least likely to marry at the same ages that their black male and asian female counterparts do. And these two groups are least likely to date/marry a partner from another race.

But just in case everyone thinks it's all good--that Archie cover with him lip-locked with Valerie from Josie and the Pussycats stirred up a whole hornet's nest of controversy, so not everyone's okay with interracial relationships regardless of who it is.

I have always said and stand by the fact that race and sex DO NOT belong in the bedroom (or wherever on chooses to do the wild thing). It muddies the waters with nonsensical b.s. The fact that we might be dealing with white boy hang-ups in regards to black male sexuality just proves the point. Instead of telling a good story in which the black hero gets a his mate--regardless of color--we get some fanboy's mental baggage.

On the flip side, what if the preponderance of films featured black men/white women? Do we honestly think black men would be as upset as they are now because they're left out of the loop in fiction? And how do you think most would react to black women's complaints that this was so?

Also, I remember reading an interview with Denzel Washington talking about 'The Pelican Brief' and a scene of where he was supposed to kissed Julia Roberts. He said the reaction from black women in the screening audience was so negative that they cut that part out of the picture. I believe he also said something about not wanting to reinforce the idea that black men want white women, so he doesn't do scenes like that. So perhaps there's a bit of self-fulfilling prophecy.

There are two films featuring a black man/white woman pairing (ironically both feature actor Julia Stiles): Save the Last Dance and O (the modern retelling of Othello). I actually liked O because,well, it's Shakespeare!


message 24: by JC (new)

JC (ainathiel) I have scene two other Shakespeare production where the the casting was IR. I don't think much about it because it is Shakespeare.

I remember reading that article as well and I think it was in addition actor Eric La Salle protested having an onscreen relationship on the tv show ER with actress Alex Kingston because he didn't want to offend.

I also believe it is almost impossible for the society to separate race and sex, due to history. There is a reason why the stereotypes of black women are the mammy and the sapphire.


message 25: by JC (last edited Oct 12, 2010 01:52PM) (new)

JC (ainathiel) I am a comic fan not a fanatic. I also don't read them to see which is an IR couple and who isn't. Recently, I do know that there are IR couple in animations, with bm/ww pairings. However that is not the issue of the cartoon, they are saving the world from evil? My example is the Secret Saturdays. It should on cartoon network for some time.


TheFountainPenDiva | 1154 comments Society CAN separate race and sex from the bedroom, Many people simply prefer NOT to. Muddying the waters is what makes conflict, and where there's conflict no one listens to anyone else. It also sets up all these unrealistic expectations based on color and/or gender.


message 27: by Stacy-Deanne (last edited Oct 12, 2010 01:10PM) (new)

Stacy-Deanne Stacy-Deanne (wwwgoodreadscomstacydeanne) Look, there are WAY too many generalizations in this thread. Too many, "this is what they say", "this is what they think". My question is, how does anyone know what other folks think on a wide scale? You can get the opinions of 100 black men, white women, black women, and white men and that means NOTHING. Why? Because that's just those folks' opinions. It doesn't mean that it's the truth all around. Too much generalizing and we can't do that.

Also, who says that the black woman and white man thing isn't popular in real life? Maybe it's not popular where some folks live but doesn't mean it's not popular anywhere. We need to stop generalizing. No one can say what is popular or what is seen "this way or that" and try to put those opinions on the majority of other people. Please. It's no way to do that.

Folks need to speak for themselves. Speak from your own experiences. But I can sit here and say, "Black men tell me this." And if I spoke to five black men, does that mean that's how all black men think?

And who cares what IR pairing is seen the most on television or in reality? I don't care! I think it's beautiful to have IR relationships anywhere and don't spend my time tallying up and comparing real-life to television. I think that's what's wrong, too much generalization. If people stop talking for other folks and putting stuff in an entire race's mouth, the world would be a better place.

I just get tired of people taking things they see from a couple articles or some statistics and basing that on what everyone else thinks or what is popular. We need to spend time worrying about our lives and what we're doing. I think this kind of stuff is what makes all the hostility when it comes to IR relationships and race, folks generalizing too much.

Sorry if I seem pissed but this is what's wrong with the world, people too busy trying to categorize stuff and generalize that nothing gets done. Just be glad IR dating is here and that it's more accepting than it used to be. That's all I have to say. Don't worry about what others think. It shouldn't be important in your world.

Best Wishes!

http://www.stacy-deanne.net


message 28: by CaliGirlRae, Mod Squad (new)

CaliGirlRae (Rae_L) | 2000 comments Mod
Well said, Stacy-Deanne.


message 29: by TheFountainPenDiva (last edited Oct 14, 2010 07:50PM) (new)

TheFountainPenDiva | 1154 comments Let's not be too naive here. Granted, people shouldn't be basing their lives on what they see (or in this case don't see) in the media. In a perfect world, that would be true. Unfortunately, the mass media DOES have power to shape our perceptions. Why else are so many multicultural rights groups fighting Hollywood for more and better representation in film and in television if the media didn't matter? I agree that if we go by what we see on television, more black women would be dating outside the race. The numbers don't lie and we DON'T date/marry outside our race as to black men. The reasons are many and varied, but the media does play a part in shaping those attitudes. It does bear mentioning that quite a few of these bw/wm relationships tend not to last long or end in some sort of tragedy. My guess is that a lot of black women are fighting a battle between their hearts and the brainwashing from male sexism that still sees them as property. Who knows, they may see all these interracial couples on television and just ignore it.

Again, sex and race do not belong in the bedroom.


TheFountainPenDiva | 1154 comments I don't know if black women are "paranoid" as much as we are used to not being viewed as beautiful and/or desirable. My guess is that--because of the brainwashing--black women view these relationships depicted in the media as a "fantasy" or us being "exotic". You know, good enough to get one's freak on with but not good enough to meet the parents? You're right about the complaints, but when consistently bombarded by sexism from some black men who try and tell us that no white man could possibly want us for anything BUT sex, or should we choose to ignore that, to be treated as "a traitor", it's not all that surprising the disconnect happens.


message 31: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 5995 comments Mod
A woman has to love herself and when you love yourself, you will display sunshine where ever you go.

If you walk in the media's shadow, you will never be a real person.


message 32: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 5995 comments Mod
I don't know what black women on the internet elsewhere saying about themselves, but on this group, I haven't seen anyone say that they feel that they are undesirable, because they are black.

The ladies that are saying and feeling that they aren't desireable, can't speak for any of us. They can only speak for themselves.


message 33: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 5995 comments Mod
Melissa,

The women on here know that black women are desirable. What other black women are talking about on other sites are them.


message 34: by Danielle The Book Huntress (Back to the Books), Sees Love in All Colors (new)

 Danielle The Book Huntress (Back to the Books) (Gatadelafuente) | 7229 comments Mod
Melissa, I am going to have to delete message 40 since it violates the rules about quoting other members.


message 35: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 5995 comments Mod
Black women are desirable. Can we move off the "undesirable black woman" issue?


message 36: by Danielle The Book Huntress (Back to the Books), Sees Love in All Colors (new)

 Danielle The Book Huntress (Back to the Books) (Gatadelafuente) | 7229 comments Mod
No, you had quoted Vixenne, although you didn't use quotations marks. That still counts. :)


message 37: by Tina (new)

Tina | 1198 comments When you start a sentence with 'All black women...' the only way to end it and have it not be an outright fallacy is with '...are not the same' or '...do not think alike.'

I have a large family. I have three sisters, 10 aunts, a mother, a grandmother, a great grandmother, and innumerable (yes I really have lost count) female cousins in my generation. When you get us all in a room, the only things we all have in common is that a) we identify as black and b) we are related by blood. After that all bets are off.

We range in age from 12 to 90. We range in skin color from light,bright damned near white to inky dark. We range in hair texture from stick straight and thin to the thickest, densest fro you can think of. Some of us are skinny and some of us are overweight. Some of are married, some of us are not. Some of us are married interracially, some of us would never even consider it.

Some of us are college educated, with one of us having an MBA and one of us having a law degree and some of us haven't finished high school. Some of us are personally very well off financially and some of us are struggling.

I can tell you when we get together and talk, the words 'black women are undesirable' have never passed our lips. We do debate about beauty standards in society or the racial injustices that still abound. We do acknowledge that there is an inequality in representation in magazine and film. Truthfully, some of us do feel a sense of frustration about that, but for the most part we consider that society's problem, not ours.

And when we talk, the issue of 'black women's lack of desirability' is not even close to a favorite topic. Truth to tell, we tend to talk about hair care products, child-rearing, family gossip and awesome shoes more than anything. LOL. And honestly I have a couple of cousins who think they are a lot cuter than they really are...but I digress.

I say all this because as someone pointed out upthread, there are a lot of generalities being thrown around. If there is such a breadth of difference in just one family of black women imagine how much that difference expands exponentially when you consider the totality of all black female experience. It is doing us all a great disservice to continually point out the opinions of a relatively vocal few without considering the opinions of the enlightened as well.


TheFountainPenDiva | 1154 comments Melissa:

I do get what you're saying, but again, one can't just have these pat answers to deeper issues. I mean, what IS going on in the minds of some black women that makes them believe the hype? This stuff didn't just come out of the blue, and that's what seems to be lacking in this conversation--the WHYS. Also, knowing there is this disconnect, what is the SOLUTION? How do black women HELP other black women get past that, see through the b.s.?

And, not all black women are drinking the undesirable kool-aid, so let's not oversimplify or generalize.


message 39: by Danielle The Book Huntress (Back to the Books), Sees Love in All Colors (new)

 Danielle The Book Huntress (Back to the Books) (Gatadelafuente) | 7229 comments Mod
I appreciate that, Melissa. I deleted the one I found.


message 40: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 5995 comments Mod
I'm closing my thread.

I want to end by saying, I don't see where black women on here is saying that black women are undesirable.

The subject is dead in my eyes and I will not respond to it on other threads as well.


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