The Bronze Horseman discussion

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message 1: by ChristinaRae (new)

ChristinaRae | 162 comments Mod
Welcome to the Bronze Horseman group! Did you love it? Hate it? What are your thoughts?


message 2: by Alycia (new)

Alycia | 549 comments Mod
Wow! Thanks for joining everyone! Word does travel fast.


message 3: by Linda (new)

Linda C | 30 comments I am a Bronze Horseman Lover. Although I don't think the writing was the greatest, the story was just so compelling that I can overlook some of the bad dialogue.
Thought the descriptions of WWII st Pete/Leningrad was some of the best writing in the book. You really feel as if you're in the freezing apartment with Tatiana or being evacuated across the frozen lake. Paulina Simons CAN write-- I wish she would work on her dialogue and cut down on the sex scenes. A lot of it was just unnecessary to the storyline.


message 4: by Alycia (last edited Jan 24, 2010 07:57PM) (new)

Alycia | 549 comments Mod
Welcome Linda! Thanks so much for joining. I totally agree with you about feeling like you are there. It really made me stop to think about what life could have been like there during WW 2. When I read a book, the story is unfolded in my head like a movie, this book was no exception. The description was not too much nor did it bog down the flow or the excitement of what was going on. I was angry a lot with Tatiana and Alexander, I understood why things were kept secret, I was just so happy once they made it past that point! I can understand your statement about the dialog, I definitely felt this vibe that this was definitely a European writer with a different writing style than I have been used to by other writers. That definitely was demonstrated in the dialog.


message 5: by Kelly (new)

Kelly  | 636 comments Linda wrote: "I am a Bronze Horseman Lover. Although I don't think the writing was the greatest, the story was just so compelling that I can overlook some of the bad dialogue.
Thought the descriptions of WWII..."


You thought the sex was to much in the TBH? or are you referring to The Summer Garden?
I can see why people may think TSG could have cut down on the sex scenes but for me I think they were essential.

"Don't you understand what I come to you for?" said Alexander. "I can't have communion with you until you forgive me."








Heather (Let's-Go-Pens-We're-Gonna-Take-This-One) Hello, my name is Heather, and I'm a BH disliker. I won't say hater, because that isn't nice, but I vehemently disliked the story.

I don't like men who play two girls at one time; I know he secretly loved Tatiana, however he was still having sex with Dasha until through August, hence a two-timer.

I felt Tatiana's character was too immature for the subject matter throughout the whole story. She was engaged in sexual intercourse, yet had extremely childish views on war, love, survival.

I read the whole book in order to give it the benefit of the doubt and didn't actually like either character until the end; when Alexander finally grew a set and staged his own "death" for the benefit of Tatiana's survival, and when Tatiana actually did what was in her best interest for once and fled the country. I thought surely she'd pull some "he isn't really dead" crap and stay in Russia looking for his body.

Anyway, that was my take on the book.



message 7: by Mishelle (new)

Mishelle LaBrash (MsShell) Kelly wrote: "Linda wrote: "I am a Bronze Horseman Lover. Although I don't think the writing was the greatest, the story was just so compelling that I can overlook some of the bad dialogue.
Thought the descr..."


Completely agree.. It set the scene for there complete need for eachother. Although it was in abundance, for sure. Escpecially in the 3rd book, but it wasn't offensive. I've certainly read worse...lol


message 8: by Alycia (new)

Alycia | 549 comments Mod
Kelly wrote: "Linda wrote: "I am a Bronze Horseman Lover. Although I don't think the writing was the greatest, the story was just so compelling that I can overlook some of the bad dialogue.
Thought the descr..."


This is random, but there was a quote in TBH about coming together as one, but that it was better, it was communion. It was a beautiful quote.


message 9: by Alycia (new)

Alycia | 549 comments Mod
Heather wrote: "Hello, my name is Heather, and I'm a BH disliker. I won't say hater, because that isn't nice, but I vehemently disliked the story.

I don't like men who play two girls at one time; I know he sec..."


I enjoyed reading your review Heather and posted a comment.


Heather (Let's-Go-Pens-We're-Gonna-Take-This-One) Alycia wrote: "Heather wrote: "Hello, my name is Heather, and I'm a BH disliker. I won't say hater, because that isn't nice, but I vehemently disliked the story.

I don't like men who play two girls at one time;..."


K, I'll read it.


message 11: by Sheri (new)

Sheri I understand the dialog comment and it IS a little terse, but having lived in another culture (France) for a few years I know that different cultures have different ways of interacting with one another. And knowing that the author is Russian, I think it's an accurate portrayal of how their dialog might have actually been. ?? From what I understand, the lack of having ANYTHING that was really yours made for a very selfish person across the board (in general). Just a thought! : ) Anyone?

I am only halfway through TBH, so don't tell me more, but I, too am so frustrated that Alex is actually having sex with Dasha as well. I just cannot imagine putting up with that! But maybe I'll reach the part where I'll understand. ; )
Sheri


message 12: by Linda (new)

Linda C | 30 comments Kelly wrote: "Linda wrote: "I am a Bronze Horseman Lover. Although I don't think the writing was the greatest, the story was just so compelling that I can overlook some of the bad dialogue.
Thought the descr..."


I was referring to BH-- primarily the month-ish that they spent in the Urals (I think it was the Urals, without going back to look it up). I just thought there were so many scenes, one on top of the other, that I felt like "All right, we've got it, they're soul mates." (Or you could think, if you're not a lover of the series, that they're teenagers and it is only raging hormones. LOL)

Haven't read TSG yet-- haven't been able to find it in my library network and just haven't ordered it yet. I was really excited when I first heard that there was a 3rd book, but then... I don't know... just never got around to getting a copy...




message 13: by Linda (new)

Linda C | 30 comments Heather wrote: "Hello, my name is Heather, and I'm a BH disliker. I won't say hater, because that isn't nice, but I vehemently disliked the story.

I don't like men who play two girls at one time; I know he sec..."


I wasn't particularly troubled by that because I'm guessing that is was probably accurate for Soviet-era Leningrad.

There were numerous instances in the book where A tried to explain the concept of privacy to T and she really didn't get it. Since there was so much deprivation in their lives, even before the war, that people took whatever enjoyment they could find, even if that included sex with multiple partners.

I have trouble understanding T's attachment to her family, since they verbally and physically abused her at every opportunity, but figure that I am looking at it from my American perspective, and that it is understandable from the perspective of a soviet union citizen.

At the beginning of the war, the USSR had been a country for what-- 20 years? In that time, there was the upheaval of the revolution, mass starvation in the '20s and then stalin's rise to power-- the state was everything; the needs of individuals meant nothing. The government could put you out of your apartment, or move strangers in, on a moment's notice. So you had to rely on your family, no matter how bad they were, because that was all you had.


message 14: by Mishelle (new)

Mishelle LaBrash (MsShell) Linda wrote: "Heather wrote: "Hello, my name is Heather, and I'm a BH disliker. I won't say hater, because that isn't nice, but I vehemently disliked the story.

I don't like men who play two girls at one time;..."


Very true, which was also the reason behind T and A's reasons for keeping quiet, and following through with the charade. Not only from her family, and all the problems Tatiana would face, but also from Dimitri.


message 15: by Kelly (new)

Kelly  | 636 comments Don't forget he was already sleeping with loose Dasha before he met Tatiana.

He did break it off with Dasha he was trying to do the right thing.

When Alexander found Tatiana and they spent the night together and he carried her home he never slept with Dasha again.





message 16: by ChristinaRae (new)

ChristinaRae | 162 comments Mod
I thought he quit sleeping with everyone, including Dasha, after he met T. Didn't his fellow soldiers tease him about it? And didn't he keep putting Dasha off from actually doing the deed?

Even if he did carry on a bit, my take on him is that he is really hardened by his experiences, so he gets a little grace.


message 17: by Alycia (new)

Alycia | 549 comments Mod
That's what he said later to T, or maybe that was what Dasha said to T that once T & A met in August he didn't touch her. Did he ever with Dasha? I was not clear on the impression of that, I thought the answer was no.


message 18: by Alycia (new)

Alycia | 549 comments Mod
Sheri wrote: "I understand the dialog comment and it IS a little terse, but having lived in another culture (France) for a few years I know that different cultures have different ways of interacting with one ano..."

I didn't have a problem with dialog, but I do agree with you Sheri that cultures are different and that is what I expected and kept an open mind to.


message 19: by Mishelle (new)

Mishelle LaBrash (MsShell) The Bronze Horseman was written, mostly from Tatiana's P.O.V., we experienced what she experiencd, and saw what she saw.. especially when it came to Dasha and Alexander's relationship, or the lack thereof. It was extremely vague, when it stopped. We only knew Tatiana's impression of things.. Dasha did tell her they stopped in August, and Alexander told her, he stopped when he decided that Tatiana was the one he wanted to be with. He continued the Facade at Tatiana's request, as she made him promise he wouldn't break Dasha's heart.. And he kept that promise, even though he waanted them to come clean in the beggining.


message 20: by ChristinaRae (new)

ChristinaRae | 162 comments Mod
Alycia wrote: "That's what he said later to T, or maybe that was what Dasha said to T that once T & A met in August he didn't touch her. Did he ever with Dasha? I was not clear on the impression of that, I though..."

Have you read T & A yet? It goes into more detail about A & Dasha's relationship. Actually, it pretty much recaps TBH but from A's POV.


message 21: by Mishelle (new)

Mishelle LaBrash (MsShell) ChristinaRae wrote: "Alycia wrote: "That's what he said later to T, or maybe that was what Dasha said to T that once T & A met in August he didn't touch her. Did he ever with Dasha? I was not clear on the impression of..."

I have read it, and although it went into great detail of his life before Tatiana, the many women... Including Dasha, it still didnt overly explain when the actual physical part of their relationship stopped. Or, atleast I missed it if it had.


message 22: by ChristinaRae (new)

ChristinaRae | 162 comments Mod
I agree, he didn't refer much to the time in Leningrad before/during the siege. Maybe we're supposed to think it irrelevant because he thinks of their first meeting as the end of all other girls.


message 23: by Mishelle (new)

Mishelle LaBrash (MsShell) ChristinaRae wrote: "I agree, he didn't refer much to the time in Leningrad before/during the siege. Maybe we're supposed to think it irrelevant because he thinks of their first meeting as the end of all other girls. "

That's what I am thinking.


message 24: by Alycia (new)

Alycia | 549 comments Mod
ChristinaRae wrote: "Alycia wrote: "That's what he said later to T, or maybe that was what Dasha said to T that once T & A met in August he didn't touch her. Did he ever with Dasha? I was not clear on the impression of..."

No, I got it yesterday. I am trying to get through other books and have a reading challenge looming on the horizon. I wish I didn't have to sleep or there were more hours in the day. I will be reading T & A as soon as I can though! I do not mind reading spoliers.


message 25: by Mara (new)

Mara | 19 comments Hello everyone!
Im Mara, and the trilogy is my favorite series ever! I discovered it last year, looking for books after reading the Outlander and Wilderness series. I fell in love with it so I immediately ordered the other 2 from UK. I got my 14-year-old sister (I'm 20) and she loves it now (as much as Twilight) and Im trying to get my aunt to read it too. I just ordered the other version of T&A (called The Bridge to Holy Cross) because I know there are different things in both books. Can't wait for it!


message 26: by Alycia (new)

Alycia | 549 comments Mod
Hi Mara! So glad you joined and thanks for all your helpful posts! :)


message 27: by [deleted user] (new)

Alycia did you get the Bridge to Holy cross ?? make sure you get that 1


message 28: by Alycia (new)

Alycia | 549 comments Mod
No, my copy was Tatiana and Alexander. I may have to go searching for TBTHC and see what the difference is.


message 29: by [deleted user] (new)

that sux


message 30: by Mishelle (new)

Mishelle LaBrash (MsShell) My copy was Tatiana and Alexander as well, I wonder if there were more differences than just the ending...


message 31: by [deleted user] (new)

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


message 32: by Leea (new)

Leea | 317 comments okay, new to this group so thanks for starting it :) I'm having trouble finding Tatiana and Alexander and the summer garden. Those books are not at my library nor do my friends have them and for some reason they are being released June 29th 2010?? I cant wait that long ladies... HELP!!


message 33: by Lady (new)

Lady England | 39 comments I ordered my copies through Alibris.com



message 34: by Alycia (new)

Alycia | 549 comments Mod
Leea wrote: "okay, new to this group so thanks for starting it :) I'm having trouble finding Tatiana and Alexander and the summer garden. Those books are not at my library nor do my friends have them and for s..."

Hi Leea! So glad you joined this group. I found my copy of Tatiana and Alexander at half price books. Check amazon.com sellers or half.com or abebooks.com for used copies. I am going to order The Summer Garden from one of these sites.


message 35: by ChristinaRae (new)

ChristinaRae | 162 comments Mod
I ordered TSG from AbeBooks. Most of the books come from the UK so it takes forever to get them, but SOOOO worth the wait!


message 36: by Leea (new)

Leea | 317 comments Thanks ladies, I kinda feel like a nerd. I've never ordered off some of the places so I did not think to search them. My wonderful husband found some last night and bought them for me :) thanks! Off to finish TBH :)


message 37: by Diane (new)

Diane (LadyDi4476) | 107 comments I ordered T & A from Amazon, then found out that TBTHC has five additional chapters, so I ordered that copy from the UK as well using Abebooks.com. Neither version of the books have arrived yet....:( I keep re-reading TBH over and over again in the meantime. I've never ordered internationally either. But I know it's going to be worth :-)


message 38: by ChristinaRae (new)

ChristinaRae | 162 comments Mod
You should read the posts on T&A/TBTHC. Some people felt the additional chapters were not a good thing.


message 39: by Alycia (new)

Alycia | 549 comments Mod
Yes, there was a long discussion on it Diane.


message 40: by ChristinaRae (new)

ChristinaRae | 162 comments Mod
But watch out for spoilers! :)


message 41: by Diane (new)

Diane (LadyDi4476) | 107 comments Yeah I don't want to be spoiled so I'm trying not to read too many threads about the different versions. I ordered both just to be the safe side :)


message 42: by Alycia (new)

Alycia | 549 comments Mod
I don't blame you about spoilers. I don't mind general spoilers, but nothing to specific. I have been avoiding TSG thread since I haven't read it yet... so many posts to read once I start the book.


message 43: by ChristinaRae (new)

ChristinaRae | 162 comments Mod
Read the shorter version first. The story was that Paullina Simons didn't think she would get to write a third novel (TSG) so she stuck an ending on TBTHC that summed things up but wasn't a great finale. Then she got to write TSG, so the extra bit was left off the newer editions of T&A/TBTHC because everything gets tied up in the TSG anyway.
Hope that helps!


message 44: by Diane (new)

Diane (LadyDi4476) | 107 comments Ohh okay. So I should probably read T & A first (the 41 chapter version) then TSG, then TBTHC to get all the extra added scenes. Thanks!


message 45: by Mishelle (last edited Feb 26, 2010 01:23AM) (new)

Mishelle LaBrash (MsShell) Diane wrote: "Ohh okay. So I should probably read T & A first (the 41 chapter version) then TSG, then TBTHC to get all the extra added scenes. Thanks!"

the extra add ons, at the end, is just an extremely condensed version of TSG, just so you know. And I'm confoozled... The book I read was T&A, not TBTHC... And I had the extended ending... this was the book I read.. Tatiana and Alexander (Tatiana and Alexander, #2) by Paullina Simons


message 46: by Mishelle (last edited Feb 26, 2010 01:31AM) (new)

Mishelle LaBrash (MsShell) Okay, this is crazy... After adding that cover, I took a closer look, and then I noticed the couple on the cover looked different than the cover I had... so I looked again... this was the cover of the one I read.... Tatiana et Alexandre by Paullina Simons except... Mine wasn't in roman... obviously, lol


message 47: by Kelly (new)

Kelly  | 636 comments Tatiana and Alexander by Paullina Simons

This is the one I read.


message 48: by Rika (new)

Rika (ruminations) | 9 comments I am a Bronze Horseman Lover. Although I don't think the writing was the greatest, the story was just so compelling that I can overlook some of the bad dialogue.
Thought the descriptions of WWII st Pete/Leningrad was some of the best writing in the book. You really feel as if you're in the freezing apartment with Tatiana or being evacuated across the frozen lake. Paulina Simons CAN write-- I wish she would work on her dialogue and cut down on the sex scenes. A lot of it was just unnecessary to the storyline.

Linda I have a friend who says the exact same thing about the story that there was way to much sex. When I first read it I thought the exact same thing but back then I was little bit young and unaccustomed to it all. But the more times you read, I think you understand their relationship. The physical aspect is VERY integral to their relationship. VERY.In this book their whole world was falling apart especially in the scene where Alexander comes to find Tatiana in Leningrad (and all that ensues), the physical release the need to be together I think is why Simon's put's so much of it in the book. There is a war going on on their doorstop, they realise their time is precious and a physical union is one where they feel most close and complete.


message 49: by Rika (new)

Rika (ruminations) | 9 comments Heather (Let's-Go-Pens-We're-Gonna-Take-This-One) wrote: "Hello, my name is Heather, and I'm a BH disliker. I won't say hater, because that isn't nice, but I vehemently disliked the story.

I don't like men who play two girls at one time; I know he sec..."


I get what your saying about two timing and he shouldn't have been sleeping with her. At a certain point in the story though I don't feel sorry for Dasha. Because the signs that Alexander loves Tatiana are already there and it says in the book that everyone but Dasha sees it. When he takes Tatia's side when Dasha hit's her it becomes pretty obvious that he cares for her ALOT. I feel like Dasha didn't want to believe it that she didn't want to see the signs, and its understandable. Yet there would be a certain part of me that would let go because of pride. I think that she let Alexander two time her therefore you cannot blame him only.
I wouldn't say her views were childish. I would say she was hopeful. Her character has always striked me as pretty optimistic I mean she did travel to Germany not knowing whether Alexander was alive or not because she loved him so much, because she had hope. At the end of the day she is a very sheltered 17 year old throughout most of the book can you blame her???.I don't believe engaging in intercourse makes you more wiser about war etc etc.
Btw about the best interest thing when do heroine's really in romance look out only for themselves and their best interests rarely.


message 50: by Kelly (new)

Kelly  | 636 comments Welcome to TBH group!

Unfortunately he did not stop sleeping with Dasha, :( That still makes me so angry!!! but that is Alexander for you he gets me all emotional. :)


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Tatiana and Alexander (other topics)
Tatiana et Alexandre (other topics)
Tatiana and Alexander (other topics)