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topic: Intro to Vegetable Gardening?


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message 1: by Clearly (new)

62081 Earlier I was feeling guilty about buying vegetables at Whole Foods -- none of which were locally grown-- when I came across Michael Pollan's New York Times essay which renewed my interest in starting a vegetable garden.

I'd love to look out my window and see kale, collard greens, onions, mint, broccoli, and rosemary growing. . .I'd also love to check my bank balance without groaning.

Can you recommend fun, accessible, super easy-to-read gardening books? In particular, ones that have information about gardening in New England? I'd be interested in websites too.

Thanks for the suggestions.


message 2: by Logan (new)

70078 On a similar note, can anyone recommend any books or websites that may contain tips about gardening in the South-West, or any desert for that matter?


message 3: by Inder (new)

250817 I'm a San Francisco Bay Area gardener, but most veggie gardening books seemed to be aimed at the Northeast and Midwest, so Tien, you're in luck!

The classic vegetable gardening book is How to Grow More Vegetables: Fruits Nuts Berries Grains and Other Crops. This will teach you how to prepare your soil for maximum results, but don't worry if you can't quite double-dig your entire plot, it'll still be okay.

The other must-have is All New Square Foot Gardening: Grow More in Less Space.

I know everyone hates Martha Stewart, but you gotta admit, especially for the Northeast, her gardening books are excellent. Try Gardening 101: Learn How to Plan Plant and Maintain a Garden.

It's much tougher to find good books about vegetable gardening in the Southwest. I used to live in Albuquerque, so I know whereof I speak. Much can be learned by driving out to the Pueblos and Reservation areas and observing the dry farming techniques of the local Native Americans who have been farming in those high deserts for millenia. I learned more from taking long jogs around my neighborhood than I ever learned from books. But, in addition, you might want to take a look at Desert Gardening: Fruits and Vegetables or Extreme Gardening : How to Grow Organic in the Hostile Deserts.

One thing I recommend to all new vegetable gardeners - look at your neighbor's gardens and surrounding fields, figure out what grows well in your area, and start with that. Go with your climate, rather than trying to fight it. You'll have more success, more fun, you'll work a lot less, and you'll have more fresh food in the end! Sounds obvious, but I'm always amazed to see new gardeners trying to grow peas in the desert heat, or tomatoes in the northwest fog.


message 4: by Lisa (new)

42390 *hides northwest tomatoes*

Local university extension offices are also awesome--just google your state, and the words "extension" and "gardening." They're a great source of info on what grows well locally and when/how to plant it.

My other trick has been to buy starter plants from a local farmer's market and ask the farmer him/herself to tell me what I need to know. That's how I pick out my northwest-tolerant tomatoes.


message 5: by Happyreader (last edited Apr 21, 2008 02:28pm) (new)

901783 Have any of you ever had your soil tested? One reason I ask is that in Being Zen: Bringing Meditation to Life, the author and his wife start an organic farm -- and become incredibly sick because they didn't realize their soil was polluted and that they were consuming large loads of toxins from their plants. I'm curious how many people test their soil before planting.

Tien, are you planning on a plot garden or a container garden? I personally have no choice since I have only a deck, not a yard (and I'm leary of the urban soil in the yard below anyways) so I'm planning on using McGee and Stuckey's Bountiful Container: Create Gardens of Vegetables, Herbs, Fruits and Edible Flowers which was really the only decent food-based container garden book I could find.

Yes, I sound a little paranoid about the soil but I grew up in Western New York, which was once deemed by the EPA one of the most polluted areas in the nation (think Love Canal and Hooker Chemical).


message 6: by Inder (new)

250817 Of course, I heartily support growing tomatoes anywhere, but some places are just easier than others!

When I lived in Aptos, a foggy beach town near Santa Cruz, I grew tomatoes on the roof our our old house to get the maximum sun, and I got enough tomatoes to make the venture worthwhile, but it was nothing to write home about.

On the other hand, tomatoes practically grew themselves when I lived in Davis, 65 miles inland, where the summers are long and hot. There, I was constantly beating back a giant, sprawling tomato hedge, and giving away tomatoes to anyone who would take them.

Just make sure to grow some "easy," local, no-brainers in addition to more challenging fare. I've tried to grow corn at least 10 different times in California, with no success. They're just too water-hungry, and I'm too lazy. So I finally gave up. I believe in lazy gardening. But if I lived in the soy & corn belt, it'd be a whole different matter!

I heartily second the comment about farmer's market starts - that's the best place to find starts of varieties that are tried-and-true in your microclimate. And lots of good, local advice.


message 7: by Lianna (new)

Nophoto-f-25x33 Logan, I second Inder's suggestions. I also recommend Growing Food in the High Desert Country by Julie Behrend Weinberg. I see you're in Tucson, which isn't high desert, but it contains a lot of good tips regardless.

Also, check out this link for more suggestions:

http://ag.arizona.edu/maricopa/garden/ht...

Hope this helps!


message 8: by Inder (new)

250817 Happyreader - That's a really interesting point! If you're right next to a freeway, or gardening on an old gas-station or industrial site, you have to be careful. You could test or you could use containers or build raised beds (which have many benefits).

You can often do some internet or city hall research to find out how likely contamination is -most cities and counties keep fairly decent records. If your subdivision was built in a (at that time) undisturbed vacant field, you probably don't have much to worry about (unless there's a mine up the hill - you get the idea).

But don't let any of this discourage you from growing your own food! Start small - it's very addictive! I've moved from place to place for many years now, and managed to grow a little produce in every environment - hot, cold, tiny balconies, large yards, small towns, big cities. You get so that having plants is just part of what "home" means to you.

Good luck!


message 9: by Happyreader (last edited Apr 21, 2008 04:13pm) (new)

901783 I agree. I’m not discouraging gardening. Just raising the issue of soil quality. That was my one concern with the Food Not Lawns: How to Turn Your Yard into a Garden and Your Neighborhood into a Community recommendation about planting on a vacant lot. What the heck is in the soil of that vacant lot? I wonder if there are cheap tests for major soil pollutants.

I just pulled out my copy of Being Zen and immediately found the scary passage on pp. 4-5:

“In the early seventies I bought a house with a little land in northern California. For eleven years we cultivated an extensive organic garden. Our goal was to live from the land, which included raising goats for milk and chickens and sheep for meat. It was a nice life, and we felt satisfaction in being able to raise our children in the healthiest way we knew how. But when my wife and I both came down with severe immune system disorders, high levels of DDT residue were found in our blood. The DDT had been buried on our property prior to our owning it, and the poisons had made their way into our bodies indirectly through the vegetables and meat that we were so carefully raising. The prolonged exposure consequently broke down our immune systems. Ironically the effort to live a healthy organic lifestyle had contributed to the onset of chronic debilitating disease.”

In the book, the point was that “no matter what we do, no matter how good our intentions are, there’s no way to guarantee that we can avoid falling into the icy water.” True, and I’d also add check your soil. Or, as Inder would say, do a search to see if anyone buried anything they shouldn’t have on your property.



message 10: by Elizabeth (new)

1029518 This information is so incredibly helpfull. My housemates and I are about to embark on an urban gardening adventure this year. We have seedlings started and are very excited.
The quality of the soil is something we have been discussing because the land we were going to use is right next to an auto garage and seems to have a lot of oil in it. We were planning on building some planting boxes on top of that area.
I am really interested in urban farming and am hoping to go into a program that our local food co-op is developing with some of our local farms and a co-op house which is doing some major urban farming in our area. The program will allow me to work for the organic local farms and receive instruction on urban farming from the co-op house.
Cross your fingers for me that the program will go through and I'll be able to do it, but in the meantime does anyone have any suggestions or book ideas beyond "Food not Lawns"?


message 11: by Greenthumbr (new)

966173 In terms of vegetable growing. I second the John Jeavon's books already mentioned. They are great.

I also use this book all of the time:
Rodale's All-New Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening: The Indispensable Resource for Every Gardener



message 12: by Carolyn (new)

715670 Here are my favorites:

The Moosewood Restaurant Kitchen Garden by David Hirsch
has extensive information by vegetable on all aspects of growing and preparing as well as a section on garden design and growing techniques.

The New Organic Grower by Eliot Coleman
This book is the bible of market gardeners and I believe Coleman grows in the Northeast (Maine?)



message 13: by Clearly (new)

62081 Wow! Thank you so much for the advice, my fellow Sustainable Foodies.

In response to Happyreader's question, I had planned to create a small plot garden for myself. But I’m also interested in container gardening, because this summer I’d like to start a garden with my 8-year-old cousins and I think a container garden would suit them better.

Later this season, I'll check back to tell you how the gardening is going.

Well, everyone, happy gardening and happy eating!


message 14: by Millicent (new)

34523 message 9: by Happyreader
I’m not discouraging gardening. Just raising the issue of soil quality. That was my one concern with the Food Not Lawns: How to Turn Your Yard into a Garden and Your Neighborhood into a Community recommendation about planting on a vacant lot. What the heck is in the soil of that vacant lot? I wonder if there are cheap tests for major soil pollutants.


I worked for awhile with an organization that built community gardens in vacant lots in Cleveland. As an industrial town, Cleveland probably has among the worst polluted soil possible. But they found that if they left the pavement intact, it provided a guard against the soil toxins below. Instead of wasting time hammering asphalt, they built beautiful raised beds on top. They filled the beds with compost from inside the city and nearby farms. Voila, no soil probelms at all.

There are also ways to mitigate soil toxins, through mushrooms and wetlands. I have bene meaning to check out Mycelium Running: How Mushrooms Can Help Save the World for ages now.


message 15: by Michele (new)

1233876 One thing you might consider doing is having your soil tested for nutrients. Most major colleges/universities have extension offices that can test your soil for a minimal price. That is one of the best ways to find out what can grow in your soil. Penn State has a great site (http://www.extension.psu.edu/)

We live in deer country so my gardening is limited to my deck. Growing your own herbs is very easy. I have chives, basil, parsley, rosemary and oregano every year. This year we planted two small blueberry bushes in containers. We picked a few berries to snack on each day. Hopefully we'll get more berries this summer.


message 16: by Katie (new)

Nophoto-f-25x33 If you are planning on starting a garden, definitely have your soil tested. A lot of urban soils are contaminated. I would recommend The New Organic Grower, How to Grow More Vegetables, and seed catalogs, though the info is condensed, all of it is there, weather to transplant or direct seed, when to seed, cultural info, etc. I live in the Northeast and order seeds from Johnny's and Fedco, both great companies.


message 17: by Martha (new)

1600648 One of the easiest ways to have your soil tested is through your County Extension Office. They usually charge about $10.00 and will direct you as to how it should be done as well as supply the bag.



message 18: by Harvey (new)

2878402 Logan wrote: "On a similar note, can anyone recommend any books or websites that may contain tips about gardening in the South-West, or any desert for that matter?"

Buraimi, Oman, I have some experience of. Made a good kitchen garden there and had rocket, tomatoes, lemon grass, pak choi, figs, lemons, pomegranates, spinach etc. all growing quite well... the pak choi went wild!
The soil was at first very poor and sandy so I used carbon from my BBQ (and recycled all my waste paper, off cuts of wood, dead wood etc), mixed it up with manure from a friend's farm and dug it in the soil, topping up from time to time after a BBQ. Not bad results!!!!


message 19: by BunWat (new)

747169 If you are using carbon from wood burned in a bbq that's fine but I would be hesitatant to grow food in soil amended with the ash from charcoal briquettes, especially if they are the matchless kind.


message 20: by Harvey (new)

2878402 BunWat wrote: "If you are using carbon from wood burned in a bbq that's fine but I would be hesitatant to grow food in soil amended with the ash from charcoal briquettes, especially if they are the matchless kind. "

I dare say matchless ones are full of undesirable chemicals; too old fashioned to go in for those!!


message 21: by BunWat (new)

747169 Then its all good! :)


message 22: by Harvey (new)

2878402 The other point re. chemicals is that I tried to combine the plants so that they would protect and compliment each other without the use if insecticides etc. Had a border of marigolds that looked nice and of course is a great anti-nematode plant. I also planted catnip to deter mice eating my rocket!


message 23: by BunWat (new)

747169 Also, if you don't use pesticides then you also don't kill the carnivorous insects that will eat the ones that are after your plants!


message 24: by Harvey (new)

2878402 Exactly!!!!! Takes a bit more thought and care, but lets face it, the produce does actually taste better than factory farming!


message 25: by BunWat (new)

747169 Absolutely does.


message 26: by Alexandra (new)

103 It's 'winter' here in San Francisco and I have been harvesting my arugula, kale, chard and various lettuces since December. They grow on my little back porch in pots and taste so much better than anything store-bought. I got the seeds from rareseeds.com - they have a gigantic variety of heirloom seeds for more than you can imagine.

There were some lice on the lettuce and I washed them off with plain old water.



message 27: by Harvey (new)

2878402 Thanks for the info on the rareseeds site. They do have a great variety. Right now I am in a flat in Muscat (how I miss my garden in Buraimi!!). However, if I move I will be placing some orders. My green fingers are itching!


message 28: by Reneegarner (new)

Nophoto-u-25x33 Back to the intro to gardening books Gayla Trail's You Grow Girl can't be beat (and is perfect for the container gardener). She also has a new one coming out in Feb. called Grow Great Grub. If it's anything like YGG it's going to be indispensable. I started gardening shortly before I bought You Grow Girl several years ago and I still go to it for easy pest control solutions.


message 29: by Barbara (new)

1389365 I agree that Baker Creek http://rareseeds.com is one of the best (actually, my favorite) places to purchase heirloom seeds. I make a point of also only shopping at companies that take a pledge to not use genetically modified items. I also like Territorial Seeds http://www.territorialseed.com/ and Seed Savers http://www.seedsavers.org/

here's an interesting list someone has compiled of heirloom seed sources
http://www.halcyon.com/tmend/links.htm


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Books mentioned in this topic

Mycelium Running: How Mushrooms Can Help Save the World (other topics)
All New Square Foot Gardening: Grow More in Less Space! (other topics)
Desert Heat (other topics)
Extreme Gardening : How to Grow Organic in the Hostile Deserts (other topics)
Gardening 101: Learn How to Plan, Plant, and Maintain a Garden (other topics)
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