Glad you joined us, Doni, and I'm glad you raised the issue of the perceived irrelevance of religion. If more people are interested in discussing this, I can set it up as a separate topic.

Religion is so important in a historical sense that it will come up again and again, either explicitly or implicitly.

I would hope that we would be open-minded enough to entertain all opinions no matter how personally distasteful. Other sites I've been on have turned into either hate sessions or forbade the discussion of religion altogether.

If opening such a discussion makes sense, let me know.

@Silvana : Nice to meet you. I'd love to elaborate. Here is the US, many of the mainline churches have a trend where we get a spike in youth activity in the high school ages and in the very early university attendees, and then a massive drop. It makes sense with the university students, as they explore other philosophies and other faith systems as their minds grow and open. Many would argue this happens because there is no support base "at home" for them and/or they never had a firm foundation of faith built within them as they were raised within a church. While I agree with those to a degree, I also am a firm proponent of the facts that the drop in activity is also due to the hypocracy within the church and with many of the Christians in the world.

Hate-fueled speech against those that don't share the same lifestyle (the "homosexual issue" as they call it), the unwillingness to focus ministry outward to the community that really needs it...I could go on and on.

Your points about oppressive forces is very valid worldwide. Look at what it has done in China with a huge wave of Christian activity in the region. India as well, where villages are being martyred because of their faith in Christ.

The odd shift in evangelism that we are seeing right now is the African waves of evangelism. It used to be that the United States sent many missionaries to work and plant churches in Africa. Now, while we still send them, we have a higher proportion of African missionaries coming to the US, to plant churches and ministries. This says alot for how things have changed in the US when it comes to the numbers of Christians in the population.

Please feel free to add me as a friend and email me privately to discuss this or anything else for that matter further. Just note, that I am pretty
liberal-minded compared to many of my colleagues, but think of my theology as very sound.

I am Doni Oliveros from Quezon City, Philippines. I am a father of a 14-y/o girl who is also here in Goodreads. I enjoy reading history books but currently I am fascinated about Holocaust and WWII in the Pacific. However, I am planning to branch out a bit so I am reading (though struggling) Gibbons' THE DECLINE AND FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE.

I read Decline and Fall.. before I started a two year job in Italy... it was tough going, but one of the most rewarding books I've ever read. It really helped me appreciate the historical sites and monuments I saw when I was living there. I hope to read it again sometime, with hopefully a little better understanding and retention! Don't give up- it's worth the full read!
Best Wishes,
Brian

@Silvana I'm also from the Philippines, but I moved to England a few years ago. Also, I don't think you need the accent on the o. So, just valeo. The accent was there to indicate how to pronounce it, but I don't think the Romans used it.

@Doni: ah finally, somebody from Southeast Asia! LOL
I'd also love to discuss Herodotus' Histories. Amazing book. Maybe could be the next theme of monthly discussion > Ancient historical accounts. We could include Livy, Plutarch, Virgil, Homer, Arian, etc as well. That should be fun :D

@Pastor Chris: Welcome. I'm intrigued with your comment re. the cause of the bleeding church. Is that the main cause in the US? In my country, the church is declining due to two-pronged attacks: oppression from the majority religion and the lack of interest from the young people. Regarding the oppression (which causes people's insecurity on their Christianity), from historical point of view, it's been going on for decades, but interestingly the better times were during the military dictatorship under our second president, Soeharto. Apparently, it took an almost totalitarian regime to create a sense of security to worship. Anyway, just want to share, sorry for being OOT.

@Marco: Oh bugger. My Latin is as good as my Russian.
PS: Google says the answer should be: Valeō. Is it correct? ;p

Is there a book you particularly like or dislike?

Thanks for inviting me, Ed and Bentley.
I am Doni Oliveros from Quezon City, Philippines. I am a father of a 14-y/o girl who is also here in Goodreads. I enjoy reading history books but currently I am fascinated about Holocaust and WWII in the Pacific. However, I am planning to branch out a bit so I am reading (though struggling) Gibbons' THE DECLINE AND FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE.

My answers:
1) Is there a period of history you'd like to discuss?
Definitely Holocaust.

2) Is there an author you'd like to discuss?
The Normans - authors of TEARS IN THE DARKNESS

3) Is there a book you'd like the group to read together.
HISTORIES by Herodotus

Whatever?
Hmmm

Hayes wrote: "...one thinks they had amazing drugs at their disposal...

Or maybe no one taught them to be prudish. (Adam, Eve, Apple...)"

Excellent point. I think they were pure of faith and lacking of religion, which if that could have only been the case for the rest of the world, we would not have so much nastiness and hypocrisy among the masses today.

Churches are bleeding out numbers and it is mostly because of the ones that claim they are the most religious are on the attack against the folks who have come to find their faith and respite from the storms of life.

Pastors like myself, who don't colour in the lines very well, have to fight the system and the stereotypes that have been ingrained into society, before I can throw all of my energy and efforts at the true nature of my calling... Sad commentary.

...one thinks they had amazing drugs at their disposal...

Or maybe no one taught them to be prudish. (Adam, Eve, Apple...)

Hayes wrote: "Hi Pastor Chris, and everyone else, welcome.

Too funny... did you get the elk's licence plate number? ... will check out the Tales."

Missed his plate, but he left a pile of calling cards on my lot (wink). The local tales of the Nehalem Tillmook are pretty wild. When you look at them through Western eyes, they seem pretty bizarre and hyper-sexual in nature. At first read, one thinks they had amazing drugs at their disposal (grin). It has been one of those books that I have had a hard time putting down.

The Connections series is available on Netflix, by the way.

Hi Pastor Chris, and everyone else, welcome.

Too funny... did you get the elk's licence plate number? ... will check out the Tales.

Ed wrote: "We've got lots of new members. I hope you newbies will introduce yourselves here."

Hello!!! I am Pastor Chris, and new here. I have recently become addicted to Goodreads and am honoured to participate in a group such as this. If you read my profile, it gives you a pretty good background of who I am, and if you wish, please ask for other details and add me as a friend.

I will be starting my first blog (under my homepage), so if my unique view of life is entertaining to you, join me and maybe we can make a difference in this bizarre existence we call life.

To answer Ed'd earlier post --

Is there a book you particularly like or dislike? I tend to read mainly non-fiction and have very eclectic tastes. Right now I am doing a lot of research into the local Native American Tribes (Nehalem Tillamooks). I just relocated to my dream home (on the waters of the Oregon Coast, so I am diving head first into all of the local history. So to answer the aforementioned question (sorry I have ADD--hey there's an elk (wink)) my favourite book at the moment is Tales of the Nehalem Tillamook.

Is there a period of history you'd like to discuss? I am into any period, so the more varied the better, for me.

Is there an author you'd like to discuss? I go with the flow there too.

Is there a book you'd like the group to read together. I would like to see folks read a variety and report and discuss, so we can get good mileage out of the group. That way, if a person is not interested in a particular subject, they can add one of their own (ater being flogged with a wet noodle of course for non-conformist thoughts)

IMHO, fiction, especially literature from another era, can be as interesting in a historical context as straight history of the time. Fiction written in another time gives the reader a context in which to understand "what it was like, then."

My only interest in Middle 19th Century England was motivated by reading Jane Austen's and the Bronte sisters' novels.

Silvana wrote: "Vince wrote: "Hi folks

I am a new member of the group invited by Ed and just getting my feet wet so to say.
I like to read and read a wide variety - has been mostly fiction until the last ten year..."

Salve! Quomodo vales ;)

Silvana wrote: "Vince wrote: "Hi folks

I am a new member of the group invited by Ed and just getting my feet wet so to say.
I like to read and read a wide variety - has been mostly fiction until the last ten year..."

Era is a good question - I would say more American history focus so that limits the era to the last few hundred years but I have not limited myself to an era.

Discussion is I htink wsuitable to what is interesting and significant to be worthy of discussion - that is having impact or influence on other events/people things.

Some fiction is also worthy of discussion - coming to mind are the Cather books such as My Antonia or Oh Pioneer, or Steinbeck's Grapes of Wrath or Cannery Row or Dickens...................etc etc.

thanks for asking

Vince wrote: "Hi folks

I am a new member of the group invited by Ed and just getting my feet wet so to say.
I like to read and read a wide variety - has been mostly fiction until the last ten years or so and..."

Salve, Vince!

which era in history do you prefer to read and/or discuss?

Hi folks

I am a new member of the group invited by Ed and just getting my feet wet so to say.
I like to read and read a wide variety - has been mostly fiction until the last ten years or so and now shifting to about 50 - 50 and the non fiction is mostly historical or factual - not science etc except in magazines etc.
I live in Connecticut but lived most of my life in NYC and will probably soon move back.
Vince
\

I like my conveniences. Inside toilets phones etc.

carol (akittykat) wrote: "I always was intrigued by sound waves. Wouldn't it be fantastic if a device was invented to pull sound waves out from the nether lands of the universe. We could hear the actual words spoken, there..."

I would prefer a time machine so I could actually see what was going on. As the nuns always said, "Actions speak louder than words."

carol (akittykat) wrote: "I always was intrigued by sound waves. Wouldn't it be fantastic if a device was invented to pull sound waves out from the nether lands of the universe. We could hear the actual words spoken, there..."

Hmmm... I wonder.

I always was intrigued by sound waves. Wouldn't it be fantastic if a device was invented to pull sound waves out from the nether lands of the universe. We could hear the actual words spoken, there would no longer be conjecture about history.

I always liked history, but a High School teacher of Ancient History really turned me onto history in general in a big way. Bless that woman. Mrs. Screen. :)

Now the one that taught American History was truly the pits...it's a shame, but her attitude still somewhat colors my attitude toward Amer.Hist, not fair, but there it is.

Hey Ed, welcome back, belatedly.
In a real way, history is a story. Perceptions and prejudices of the writers, be they contemporaries of then or now have to be colored somewhat. /shrugs/ So what, it's a cracking good tale.

Here's from us oldies, Welcome back ED. Glad your trip was successful.

We've got lots of new members. I hope you newbies will introduce yourselves here.

Kay,

Welcome to the club, so to speak. For reasons I cannot fathom, I always loved History and always saw it as basically a story of the past.

One of the reasons I like good historical fiction is that you get a great story along with well-researched history.

Hi. I always thought I hated history because it was presented to me as dry and monotonous. Then after wandering around the world a bit and becoming curious I discovered there are stories out there that are fascinating! And, amazingly enough, they are history! Odd. So, off the top of my head, a few books I like because they didn't read like history books of my childhood:
Mayflower: A Story of Courage, Community, and War
Air Force Spoken Here: General Ira Eaker and the Command of the Air
Mount Vernon Love Story: A Novel of George and Martha Washington


I prefer the WWII era (Air Corps) but am discovering other great stories. I love that history isn't taken too seriously here!

I can't wait to go check out Marco's suggestion.
As for reading, I read anything that stands still long enough.

Yay Hayes! Thank You!

Hi Suzanne! Glad you joined us!!

Thank You, Ed.
Hanging in there!!!
Hanging in here!!!

Suzanne wrote: "Hello, I was invited to come here and see if I thought that I might blend in, as well. I must say that History has never been an interest of mine but, as I read through the threads, I find that obv..."

Suzanne, Let me be clear. "YOU BELONG HERE!"

History or "herstory" is all around us. You've lived through a lot of it depending on how old you are. I'm 72 so I have experienced everything from the Great Depression and WW II to the election of a black President. All of that is history.

I personally hope you hang in there.

Hello, I was invited to come here and see if I thought that I might blend in, as well. I must say that History has never been an interest of mine but, as I read through the threads, I find that obviously you learn whether you intend to or not!!!

Recently I have read novels that incorporated actual history with a fictional group of people being the center of the story.
One, being 'The Poisonwood Bible', was not only riveting ... but a growing-up, wake-up call, for me.
I also found the historical facts in 'The Physick Book of Deliverance Dane' really moving.

So, I'm not sure if I belong here or not!!! :)

oh my gosh, you all will have to forgive me I am not a tv watcher and have never seen these programs, so all is new for me!

I would like WWI and WWII taught to me in an interesting format. I love history but always lost interest during this period and the cold war due to teachers, I think they disliked it and it showed. I love novel and unique historical tidbits because I am a historical fiction writer. Shirley

Welcome Charles, You will definitely learn something here.

i was just a newbie here...not so into history but i love to learn only history stuff doesn't love me..hope it will learn to love me as well:)..its nice to be here..

My husband and I both loved Connections as well. Wish someone would bring it back.

I remember watching and loving Connections too. I thought it was amazing how he connected so many different events in what seemed very strange but logical ways.

I remember Connections - I was in 7th grade and loved it. It had a very big impact on me.

The subsequent series were never quite as good as the first, in my book.

I'm interested in quite a wide range of history.

Second the recommendations of Colleen McCullough's Masters of Rome series, The Guns of August, and His Majesty's Dragon (for those who like the alternate stuff/fantasy elements).

I was invited by my friend to look around and see if I was interested in joining. I liked what I saw, so here I am. I posted my book in the wrong thread I think. So I will put It here ,eventually I want to read The Decline Of The Roman Empire.

Oh and here is more about the tv mini-series Connections from Wiki

Connections explores an "Alternative View of Change" (the subtitle of the series) that rejects the conventional linear and teleological view of historical progress. Burke contends that one cannot consider the development of any particular piece of the modern world in isolation. Rather, the entire gestalt of the modern world is the result of a web of interconnected events, each one consisting of a person or group acting for reasons of their own (e.g., profit, curiosity, religious) motivations with no concept of the final, modern result of what either their or their contemporaries' actions finally led to. The interplay of the results of these isolated events is what drives history and innovation, and is also the main focus of the series and its sequels.
To demonstrate this view, Burke begins each episode with a particular event or innovation in the past (usually Ancient or Medieval times) and traces the path from that event through a series of seemingly unrelated connections to a fundamental and essential aspect of the modern world. For example, the "The Long Chain" episode traces the invention of plastics from the development of the fluyt, a type of Dutch cargo ship.
Burke also explores three corollaries to his initial thesis. The first is that, if history is driven by individuals who act only on what they know at the time and not because of any idea as to where their actions will eventually lead, then predicting the future course of technological progress is merely conjecture. Therefore if we are astonished by the connections Burke is able to weave among past events, then we will be equally surprised by what the events of today eventually lead to, especially events we weren't even aware of at the time.
The second and third corollaries are explored most in the introductory and concluding episodes, and they represent the downside of an interconnected history. If history progresses because of the synergistic interaction of past events and innovations, then as history does progress, the number of these events and innovations increases. This increase in possible connections causes the process of innovation to not only continue, but to accelerate. Burke poses the question of what happens when this rate of innovation, or more importantly change itself, becomes too much for the average person to handle and what this means for individual power, liberty, and privacy.
Lastly, if the entire modern world is built from these interconnected innovations, all increasingly maintained and improved by specialists who required years of training to gain their expertise, what chance does the average citizen without this extensive training have in making an informed decision on practical technological issues, such as the building of nuclear power plants or the funding of controversial projects such as stem cell research? Furthermore, if the modern world is increasingly interconnected, what happens when one of those nodes collapses? Does the entire system follow suit?

Here is the Wiki page link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connections...(TV_series)

There are quite a few selections of this documentary on YouTube beginning here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcSxL8GUn...

Oh...I just thought of other history genres I really enjoy. All those books that came out in the late 90's and early zeros with a "theme" as a basis of exploring history.

Anyone here remember the BBC program Connections?

Here is a brief overview from Wikipedia for those who have no idea of what tv show I'm talking about...it WAS a LONG time ago....

Connections was a ten-episode documentary television series created and narrated by science historian James Burke. The series was produced and directed by Mick Jackson of the BBC Science & Features Department and first aired in 1978 (1979 in the USA). It took an interdisciplinary approach to the history of science and invention and demonstrates how various discoveries, scientific achievements, and historical world events built off one another in an interconnected way to bring about particular aspects of modern technology. The series is well-known for Burke's impeccable narration (especially its dry humour), historical reenactments, intricate working models, skillful use of classical music (most notably Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi, or "O Fortuna" from Carmina Burana), and shots on location as far afield as Penang (Malaysia).
The popular success of the series led to two sequels, Connections² in 1994, and Connections³ in 1997, both produced for TLC. KCSM-TV produced Re-Connections, comprising an interview of Burke and highlights of the original series, in 2004 for the 25th anniversary of the first broadcast in the USA on PBS

This interdisciplinary approach to history is somethign I am immensely attracted to...having such an approach can make or break a reading experience for me regarding many history books.

In the 990's a lot of books came out that chose a specific area and used this interdisciplinary approach first popularized with the tv program Connections.

Books that had title and then a massive claim like..."Foam, the bubble that changed the world!"

Like...

Cod: The Fish That Changed The World by Kurlansky

Salt: A World History by Kurlansky

Longitude: The True Story of the Lone Genius Who Solved The Greatest Scientific Problem of His Time by Dava Sobel

Home:A Short History of The World by Witold Rybczynski

One Good Turn: A Natural history of the Screwdriver and the Screw by Witold Rybczynski

Hi Everyone,

I tend to be interested in what most people in modern civilizations call "prehistory". I don't believe it's "pre" anything heh heh but rather an entirely valid and important part of the human story. I focus on social groups/tribes/hunter-gatherers that have economies and traditions for millions of years. I reject the term "agricultural revolution" because I don't feel it was a revolution but rather a desperate adaptation to dwindling resources in the areas it was first practiced.

I have read an occassional history book about contemporary narrativesI have loved and been gripped by...some examples would include I Claudius by Robert Graves, They Marched Into Sunlight by David Maraniss, Blackhawk Down by Mark Bowden , Season of Blood by Fergal Keane, Dispatches by Michael Herr.

I've actually read tons and tons of Vietnam history. I love adventure literature which I suppose is a kind of history book...liek mountin climbing accounts. But I am not sure if they are history or not. I like explorations books too.

I read as much as I can about primate history. I love Frans De Waal, Martin Harris, Jane Goodall, Stephen Jay Gould...which I suppose is classified as "natrual history".

Anyways, there's an introduction of sorts.

Maybe we could get each member here to elect a book and just work our way though them? So far there are 21 members...why not each of us select a book and we read them every two weeks. That way we'd have reading material for a whole yeaar for this group?

Just thinking out loud...if thats too many books maybe we could do some kind of vote?

Ed wrote: "Is there a book you particularly like or dislike?

Is there a period of history you'd like to discuss?

Is there an author you'd like to discuss?

Is there a book you'd like the group to re..."

Hey y'all, Ed, I saw your link over on Salon des Refusés. Great idea for a group. I do love history, but haven't formally studied, only sort of followed my inclinations, IOW, all over the place.

Probably the first author I read in this genre would have been Taylor Caldwell.

I have several ideas for nomination as well but they are all over the map in terms of periods and location etc. For example one is a Victorian woman's memoir of a trip to Africa and another is Chinese historical fiction. I think themes are a good idea.

@Ed: book of the month sounds wonderful. I prefer it is based on themes (like the Scifi group in GR) followed by voting. E.g. Selected theme: Vietnam War --> most voted book: We Were Soldiers Once...and Young Ia Drang - the Battle That Changed the War in Vietnam

However, since the group may be too small as of now (affecting the number of votes?) and it may be difficult for some to acquire certain books (this is crucial since I'd always prefer not to read downloaded e-books), maybe we could start with a similar theme first, while the books may vary according to each reader's wish.

At the end of the month, all can share the most interesting stories, personal impressions, reviews and what have you, then let the discussion flows. I've seen some of the book-of-the-month discussions in lots of forums and none of them are strict in terms of only discuss that one particular book.

@David: I have read The Guns of August and would love the idea to discuss it.

Thanks for the suggestion, Marco. I'm currently reading "We Band of Angels" (story of US nurses stuck on Bataan and taken POW by the Japanese). I have another ready to read (along with many others LOL) that's something like the Forgotten 500 ... But I don't have it right in front of me to give the correct title.

Sara, if you're reading WWII, why not try reading this: Forgotten Voices of the Second World War, it's a great resource and very rewarding. Probably the first time you'll read of a first hand accounts of the war through the eyes of people, and not through the eyes of a narrator. Enjoy!

Hi and a quick note: I'm rather new, so forgive and cross-posts please :)

My favorite historical periods are the ancients (yem Plutach send me to snoreland too). the Civil War (in the US) and the westward movement (along with the wild, wild west stuff), the Vikings, the Elizabethan era, and ...... well, the list is endless.

I really have to be in the mood to sit and read, at least read to absorb what I'm reading. Right now, I'm going back and forth between reading western history, Civil War, and WWII histories.

So -- basically, I'm open LOL

Silvana wrote: "I think we could discussed the books made into movies. For instance, yesterday I've just checked the coming-soon movies and found The Men who Stare at Goats. Starring Clooney, McGregor, Bridges and..."

I think that's agreat idea. I'll set up a separate topic for it. Let's include mini-series, also like Shogun, Roots and Band of Brothers.

I thought "300 Spartans" was a joke as a movie but "Different strokes for different folks".

I also thought "The Longest Day" was good for its time.

I agree with Marco that "Pearl Harbor" was a total disappointment.

Pearl Harbor? Bad interpretation haha.