Sheree,
Yes, it was really eye-opening for me! I was already against animal testing, but it was shocking to really understand how pointless the testing was to start off with. I think it is so important for animal rights folks to read because I hear way too many people say things like (simplified) "animal testing can save human lives but it doesn't make it right." Meanwhile, the animal testing doesn't save human lives at all! It's like we miss out on this huge tool for our advocacy.

Erm, guess I can go on and on...anyway, I am glad you have learned a lot from it also! :)

Hi Deb,

I'm currently reading Sacred Cows and Golden Geese and it is a really fantastic book. I have learned so much; namely that animal experiments are useless and are only used by drug companies to protect themselves from lawsuits by claiming due diligence.

Andrew, right now it says that only Moderators can add to the bookshelf. From what Lisa said, sounds like it is a setting you can change. We're going to have enough books for a couple lifetimes, I think!

Regarding books and bookshelves:

Yes, thanks Lisa!

Do please add books and book suggestions to the "to-read" bookshelf along with whatever and whichever tags you feel make sense.

I'm sure that I, or someone else who doesn't want to trouble with snow this winter, will have or make some free hours to add, edit and merge the books and tags.

Thanks Lisa!

Deb, Yes, We do seem to have a start for bookshelves here already:

http://www.goodreads.com/group/bookshelf...

Every group can have custom as well as the 3 default shelves.

Edit: most of the books are on the to-read shelf so here's a better view without having to click on links:

http://www.goodreads.com/group/bookshelf...

It's up to the moderator whether only the mod can add books or whether all members can add books.

I'm new to Goodreads also, and I'm wondering if the group can have it's own bookshelf? Or how do groups usually organize and keep track of the suggested books versus books that were already read?

I thought of a book that I don't think anyone else has mentioned: Sacred Cows and Golden Geese The Human Cost of Experiments on Animals

Thanks for taking the initiative to start this, Andrew! I tried to start a vegan book club a few years back on Yahoo, and man is it a ton of work! (We only managed to cover one book - Dominion The Power of Man, the Suffering of Animals, and the Call to Mercy - before everyone sputtered out.)

I won't have time to actively participate for a few months, so I don't feel comfortable casting a vote in the poll, but will try to follow along. I've read and/or own a decent chunk of the initial selection, so there's a good possibility that I'll be somewhat familiar with the club's first pick.

Just a suggestion for a future topic: I'd love to read and discuss at least one book that covers intersectionality. There are a few related titles on the initial poll, including Eternal Treblinka Our Treatment of Animals and the Holocaust, Animal Rights/Human Rights, and The Dreaded Comparison Human and Animal Slavery. Additional suggestions, off the top of my head, include (almost) anything by Carol Adams, Josephine Donovan and Joan Dunayer; An Unnatural Order Why We Are Destroying The Planet and Each Other; and An American Trilogy Death, Slavery, and Dominion on the Banks of the Cape Fear River. Actually, come to think of it, Terrorists or Freedom Fighters? Reflections on the Liberation of Animals and Making a Killing The Political Economy of Animal Rights (both on the list) touch upon intersectionality as well.

BTW, I'm new to Goodreads (and glad to see I'm not the only one). I imported my catalog from Library Thing, where I have a paid account, and GR really mangled it (reviews and ratings have been lost; Goodreads doesn't support tags, etc.). If anyone is interested in viewing my entire library, I'm smiteme on LT (http://www.librarything.com/home/smiteme).

I will start the first round poll in a few hours. If you have any final suggestions for the Club's first book (which have not already been made and will therefore be included in the first round poll) please post them in this discussion topic tonight.

This first poll will winnow our long list of over 40 books (!) down to a list of three or four (depending on ties and popularity). This first poll will last until Tuesday or Wednesday, depending on how soon a majority of votes have been cast.

The second poll of the three (or four) most popular selections will give us the Club's final decision for the first book to read and be discussed.

I have been wanting to read some of Gary Francione's work for quite some time now and never managed to actually dive in. So this could be an excellent forum for making a start at last! Mind you, I'd go along with most of the suggestions listed already... :)

I am also for reading the China Study, or whatever else we choose to read :D

I'm up for anything, whether I've read it or not.

My top three

Animal Liberation or anything else by Singer that's appropriate.

This is the book that resulted in me going vegan, over 20 years ago. Would love to read for the 3rd time :)


The Face on Your Plate The Truth About Food

I'm starting this tonight, and I'm impressed. I read Masson's When Elephants Weep over a decade ago, and a couple others since. He's a always a great read.

Introduction to Animal Rights Your Child or the Dog?

Like Peter Singer, you can't really talk about veganism and animal rights, especially if you are abolitionist (and by Francione's definition I am not one), without discussion Francione.

There are many other great suggestions that I look forward to reading/discussion too.

Perhaps Andrew can make the call soon :)

I've just bought: Animal Rights, Human Rights by David Nibert, and 2 books by Joan Dunayer which I am just about to read. But I am happy to buy and read anything. I really like the idea of this group and having deadlines to read certain chapters by. thanks for setting it up.

Thanks Lindsey!

A few suggestions (I'll have more later)...

First, a basic history of vegetarianism sorta thing -- might not be a horrible starting point, actually:

The Heretic's Feast A History of Vegetarianism

A couple of classics if we're going to want to do any serious discussing of theory:

Animal Liberation
The Case for Animal Rights
Introduction to Animal Rights Your Child or the Dog?

Essential books covering a wide range of issues (legal status of animals, the politics / economics of animal use and of animal movements, the "meat industry", other motivating factors to go vegan, etc.):

Rain Without Thunder The Ideology of the Animal Rights Movement
Animals, Property, and the Law
Making a Killing The Political Economy of Animal Rights

May All Be Fed Diet for a New World
(or)
Diet for a New America How Your Food Choices Affect Your Health, Happiness and the Future of Life on Earth

Slaughterhouse The Shocking Story of Greed, Neglect, And Inhumane Treatment Inside the U.s. Meat Industry

Books on being vegan in an overwhelmingly non-vegan world:

Vegan Freak Being Vegan in a Non-Vegan World
Being Vegan

I would also be very interested in reading The China Study. I've been meaning to for a while now. :)

I would also like to read The China Study The Most Comprehensive Study of Nutrition Ever Conducted and the Startling Implications for Diet, Weight Loss and Long-term Health

It's been sitting on the shelf for far too long :)

There's a link above the comment box - "add book/author"
I was confused at first too :)

Andrew, I'm cool with November 25.

How does one get book titles to link to the Good Reads info on the books? Are you manually inserting HTML code or am I missing something? :-)

A quick note regarding time to obtain copies and read books:

It is completely reasonable that sufficient time be allowed and advance notice be given for people to effectively participate in this book group. I certainly want to avoid having the experience become either a chore or boring.

Given that the "holidaze" will soon be upon us (Thanksgiving, Christmas and--defying all of science, even New Year's each come earlier every year), I suggest the specific goal of reading and discussing just one book by November 25th.

Post-holidaze we can hash out some general reading time and advance notice guidelines, as well as setting a pace for the group that everyone finds workable and enjoyable.

Let's get a few more suggestions by this weekend. Then I'll put up a first round poll which will winnow our long list of ten or so books down to three (possibly four if there is a tie). And then a second round poll of the short list will give us our first book to read.

I really appreciate your spending the time and making these book suggestions.

All of these books are either ones I've read or ones on my to-read shelf but I don't own most of my to-read ones, so whichever book is selected I'll reiterate my request that we be given adequate time to buy and read it. I'm happy to read anything as long as I have time to get and read the book(s). Thanks so much!

I would like to read...

Rain Without Thunder: The Ideology of the Animal Rights Movement

It's sitting on my shelf. Some great suggestions!

The suggestions so far sound great. I would be interested in re-reading Making a Killing and Introduction to Animal Rights, in addition to revisiting some of the work of Carol Adams. These authors/books have informed my perspective of animal rights and veganism but I'm always interested in learning more.

Here are some books that I've not yet read but would be interested in discussing:

-The Face on Your Plate The Truth About Food
-Capers in the Churchyard Animal Rights Advocacy in the Age of Terror
-Terrorists or Freedom Fighters? Reflections on the Liberation of Animals
-The Dreaded Comparison Human and Animal Slavery

Good plan, Lisa. I also think it would be best to start off with something that encourages discussion and interaction than bashing or flaming!

I'm willing to read anything but I agree with Ginny about it being ideal for our first book to be something more inclusive to more than one perspective.

Also, some of these books might have to be purchased, some with a short wait time, so my suggestion is we choose each book a month before the month scheduled for discussion. That's what we do in most of my book clubs here as it gives time for people to get the book, and time for some to read it a bit in advance if that's better for their schedules.

I'm interested in exploring the issue of the abolitionist approach versus other animal rights approaches, too. One concern about the two books mentioned is that they both are strongly biased toward the abolitionist perspective. I wonder if it might be better for our first book to be something that is likely to be a little less polarizing--like maybe "Eating Animals," followed by "Rain Without Thunder" and then maybe something that leans more toward the multi-track approach. Not sure what that would be--Maybe "Strategic Action for Animals" or

The Longest Struggle Animal Advocacy from Pythagoras to Peta which I don't think has been added to our list yet.

But if others don't agree, I'm happy to start with "Rain Without Thunder."

Ginny

"I would like one of the Club's first books (not necessarily the first) to delve directly into this issue of the abolitionist and welfarist approaches."

I'm going to come up with a list in a couple of days, but wanted to mention here in response to this that I think that Rain Without Thunder: The Ideology of the Animal Rights Movement would be an excellent starting point.

This is an important question. I will attempt to address it:

Also, are we going to be approaching all discussions from an abolitionist perspective? Or is welfarism/welfarist thinking welcome for debate here?

Absent knowing anything in particular about any of you I still know some things in general: I know that each of us comes to this "Vegan Book Club" with our own unique experiences, collected knowledge and personal perspective. I also know that I would like this experience to be meaningful for me--and I'm confident the same is true for each of you.

To realize this collective goal I believe it is important that each of us respect our different starting points. And further I believe it is necessary that noone be discriminated against for stating their views. I understand that "discrimination" is a big word for what is now (and may ultimately only be) such a small group of people, but it is important to me that noone feel they have no "voice" here.

I am sincerely interested in learning more about veganism and animals rights. I would like this to occur by reading books and discussing ideas reflected through the prism of the lived experiences of other sincere people.

I would like one of the Club's first books (not necessarily the first) to delve directly into this issue of the abolitionist and welfarist approaches.

Hello, all! I'd like to second Lindsey's choices. I have copies of both of those, and while I don't expect (or even want) the book club to base it's picks on what I have in my personal library, it would save a little hassle.

Also, are we going to be approaching all discussions from an abolitionist perspective? Or is welfarism/welfarist thinking welcome for debate here?

Hi Andrew! Thank you for setting up this book club - it's a really great idea. I nominate Making a Killing The Political Economy of Animal Rights or Rain Without Thunder The Ideology of the Animal Rights Movement, since those are two books I have sitting around waiting to be read, but I am definitely open to other books!

How about

Making a Killing The Political Economy of Animal Rights

I just got this in London and haven't yet had a chance to read it.

I'm open to reading and re-reading anything. Singer, Regan, Francione all good choices.

Valerie, I love the idea of the book you suggested. I've added it to my must read list and will get searching for a copy.

thanks
shan

Hi all,

Some additional suggestions:

Eating Animals(BTW, the publisher is giving away 10 free copies of this books to goodreads members. Just click on the link to the book)

Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs, and Wear Cows An Introduction to Carnism (I think this is not out until January, though?)

Strategic Action for Animals A Handbook on Strategic Movement Building, Organizing, and Activism for Animal Liberation

Ethics and the Beast A Speciesist Argument for Animal Liberation


I'd also be happy to read anything by Regan or Singer or Francione, any of which would give rise to some lively discussion, I'm sure. :)

Thanks, Andrew, for getting the book club started.

Ginny

Hello fellow vegans and readers. I suggest

Before You Know Kindness. It isn't your typical animal rights book. It is a novel. The main character is a vegan animal rights activist working for a publicity group. The entire book centers around his veganism. I thought it was interesting, especially to get the perspective of some of his friends and family.

- Valerie

Hi Everybody,

Feel free to take a look at my vegan and animal-rights shelves for book ideas. I also have a vegetarian shelf. (I do have many cookbooks on my vegan and vegetarian shelves, and they might not be appropriate for this group.)

Some ideas:

101 Reasons Why I'm A Vegetarian
Living Among Meat Eaters The Vegetarian's Survival Handbook
The Animal Activists Handbook Maximizing Our Positive Impact in Today's World
Bizarro and Other Strange Manifestations of the Art of Dan Piraro
Thanking the Monkey Rethinking the Way We Treat Animals
The Case for Animal Rights or anything by Tom Regan

Edit: Well, and this book is really old but it's the book that got me to change from being lacto-ovo vegetarian to vegan so I'll list it:

Diet for a New America

Edit again:

Andrew,

After everyone has made their suggestions, you can create a poll that includes all of them. Then, we can vote. That's how a lot of my book clubs here work. Or, you can organize the club however you prefer.

I actually wasn't thinking this was going to be an actual club reading monthly books so (because of time constraints) I suggested books I've already read. However, I'll try to keep up with whatever books the group chooses.

I'm glad that each of you has found this group. I'm new to running a book club, in real life or online. I'm also new to the Goodreads site, but so far it's been great and using it for this book club seems like a good idea.

My general understanding of book clubs is that members each read the same book within some specified period of time and then discuss their thoughts about the book.

It seems Goodreads has this process figured out, too.

However, the Goodreads polling system doesn't accept "write-in" answers (as far as I can tell), so we do need to select an initial set of books from which we pick the first (second, third, etc) book we'd like to read.

I suggest in the next few days, let's say by Sunday October 25th, that each of us post replies to this topic which include some of our personal suggestions.

These suggestions can be books you've already read but would enjoy reading again, too. The primary criterion would be whether the book did (or that you reasonably expect that it might) have a deep and lasting effect on your life and thinking as a vegan. Or, if this reasoning seems overly highfalutin, selecting a book simply because you liked it works just as well.

Again, I'm glad each of you has decided to give this group some of your time and attention. And I personally look forward to learning and sharing with you.