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topic: Victorian Word of the Day


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message 1: by Paula, Co-moderator (new)

1727075 As someone who has a lot to learn about Victorian history and literature, I recently looked around for a general what's-what of Victorian information. I found What Jane Austen Ate and Charles Dickens Knew by Daniel Pool and feel as though I stumbled on a treasure chest of wonderful Victorian tid-bits. In an effort to increase my knowledge, and hopefully that of others, I am starting this thread - my daily Victorian Word of the Day, care of this wonderful book.

The entries that I'm including are direct quotes from Daniel Pool (copyright 1993 by Simon & Schuster, Inc.). If you have any additional information to add, in an effort to educate anyone who is interested, please feel free to include your thoughts/facts below.


message 2: by Paula, Co-moderator (new)

1727075 abigail - a lady's maid


message 3: by Laurele (new)

1719730 Paula wrote: " abigail - a lady's maid"

Great idea, Paula! I did a little checking on this first one since I knew that Abigail was the wonderful woman that David met while he was running for his life and almost immediately married. Here's what I found from one source:

'It is of Hebrew origin, and its meaning is "father of exaltation". Biblical: the name of King David's third wife, described as "good in discretion and beautiful in form". She referred to herself as David's "handmaid", and her name became widely used as a term for a lady's maid.'

http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/0/...

And from another source:

'Father rejoiced, or father's joy. Gives joy. The intelligent, beautiful Abigail was Old Testament King David's third wife, described as 'good in discretion and beautiful in form.' In the 1916 play The Scornful Lady, Abigail was a lady's maid.'

http://www.weddingvendors.com/baby-names...

The biblical reference is 1 Samuel 25:2-44. Good story!

http://www.ebible.com/#1%20Samuel%2025:2


message 4: by Paula, Co-moderator (new)

1727075 Oh my goodness- you are totally feeding my addiction for learning about words!! Yay! I love word origins!

For the record, "Paula" is Latin for 'small'. I'm 5'9" :) I think that's what started it all.


message 5: by Sandybanks (last edited Oct 16, 2009 09:04AM) (new)

1889855 Paula wrote: "As someone who has a lot to learn about Victorian history and literature, I recently looked around for a general what's-what of Victorian information. I found What Jane Austen Ate and Charles Dick..."

I have this book too! It's really handy and quite accessible for general readers.


message 7: by Paula, Co-moderator (new)

1727075 acceptance - The act of putting one's name on a bill of exchange and writing "accepted" across it, which then made one liable to pay it.

(p.259)


message 8: by Paula, Co-moderator (last edited Oct 17, 2009 01:03PM) (new)

1727075 accommodation note or bill - A bill of exchange that one "accepted" for someone else so he could, in effect, borrow money based on one's credit-worthiness.

(p. 260)


message 9: by Laurele (new)

1719730 Paula wrote: "accommodation note or bill - A bill of exchange that one "accepted" for someone else so he could, in effect, borrow money based on one's credit-worthiness. (p. 260)"

This really works into some good plots, especially in Trollope.


message 10: by Darcy (new)

216890 lol--I remember the first time I read Pride and Prejudice I was horribly confused about Mr. Bingley "taking possession by Michelmas." I was pretty young (about 12) and so essentially none of that phrase made any sense to me. Great list, Paula!


message 11: by Starling (new)

2446676 Darcy, I've still got problems with "Michelmas" but I know I could look that up. But "taking possession" is pretty much common, and modern, American (and probably British) English.

I doubt if I was reading Pride and Prejudice at 12, but I love the fact that on GoodReads I meet people who, like me, were reading adult books as soon as they could get their hands on them.


1253494 interesting thread!! thanks!!


message 13: by Paula, Co-moderator (new)

1727075 Laurele wrote: "This really works into some good plots, especially in Trollope.
..."


That's one of the things that appealed to me with Pool's book. The opening sections specifically mention verbiage from Dickens, Trollope and others. Even in some of the definitions, Pool mentions which book references said word or phrase. Very helpful book!



message 14: by Paula, Co-moderator (new)

1727075 act - A piece of legislation that had passed both Houses of Parliament, been signed by the monarch and become law; before that, it was called a "bill."

(p. 260)


message 15: by Chandra (new)

797824 This is a really wonderful thread topic! I'll be watching with interest.

Something I've noticed popping up in several recent Victorian era novels is the term billet-doux (a short love note). I don't know much about the terms origins or if it was a distinctly 'Victorian' expression. Perhaps your book has something to say about this?


message 16: by Paula, Co-moderator (new)

1727075 Hmmm... the book has this term in neither the glossary nor the index. :(

All I was able to do was confirm your definition of a short love note (literally 'sweet note' from the translation from French). Different sites list the origin from 1665-75 so well in use before the Victorian period.

Apparently there isn't any more to it than that - there are actually a few sites that argue it should be more involved, but many (with seeming French knowledge) say, simply, it's a love letter; the French know about these, it doesn't need to be complicated.

Shortest definition and origin I've ever seen! :)

There must be someone on here who knows French, though, and can answer if there is more to it than "love letter"?


message 17: by Paula, Co-moderator (last edited Oct 19, 2009 08:24PM) (new)

1727075 adder - A snake, especially one that struck out.

(p. 260)

An odd term to toss into the glossery, imo. I understand the connection prior to Victorian times (isn't this the snake that became famous thanks to Cleopatra?) but seems odd in a glossary of Victorian terms.


message 18: by Laurele (new)

1719730 Paula wrote: adder - A snake, especially one that struck out.
An odd term to toss into the glossery, imo. I understand the connection prior to Victorian times (isn't this the snake that became famous thanks to Cleopatra?) but seems odd in a glossary of Victorian terms.


It was an asp that Cleopatra clasped to her breast. "Adder" is used a few times in the Old Testament, especially in the poetry books, as in "They have sharpened their tongues like a serpent; adders' poison is under their lips."


message 19: by Paula, Co-moderator (new)

1727075 I'm humbled by your knowledge - all I could remember was that it was a snake :)


message 20: by Sandybanks (new)

1889855 Laurele wrote: "Paula wrote: adder - A snake, especially one that struck out.
An odd term to toss into the glossery, imo. I understand the connection prior to Victorian times (isn't this the snake that became famo..."


I thought that the snake that killed Cleo was an asp? Or is it just another name for the adder?






message 21: by Christy (new)

1301156 Paula wrote: "As someone who has a lot to learn about Victorian history and literature, I recently looked around for a general what's-what of Victorian information. I found What Jane Austen Ate and Charles Dick..."

I've had this book on my to-read list for a while. Now, I'm even more excited. This may be one I have to actually buy instead of simply borrowing from the library. I've really cut back on book buying this year...stupid economy.




message 22: by Boof, Moderator (new)

1253478 Paula wrote: "Hmmm... the book has this term in neither the glossary nor the index. :(

All I was able to do was confirm your definition of a short love note (literally 'sweet note' from the translation from F..."


Erm, yes, it also means condom in French. I'm just sayin' ;o)


message 23: by Paula, Co-moderator (new)

1727075 Ok, that's just funny.


message 24: by Susanna (new)

1109068 I believe Cleopatra was killed by an asp, yes, and not an adder.


message 25: by Paula, Co-moderator (new)

1727075 Ok, yes, I was wrong :)


message 26: by Paula, Co-moderator (new)

1727075 Is it too late to remove my comment about the adder? It's a touch embarassing :)


message 27: by Laurele (new)

1719730 Paula wrote: "Is it too late to remove my comment about the adder? It's a touch embarassing :)"

I don't think it's anything to be embarrassed about at all, Paula. Many people don't even know that Cleopatra was killed by a snake whose name begins with "a."


message 28: by Paula, Co-moderator (new)

1727075 I guess I am just humbled by people's depth and breadth of knowledge. It is nice to see, as I sometimes feel in my 'real world' that there isn't that same level of knowledge in areas that appeal to me. Just a reminder that I have a lot to learn! (and, perhaps, a bit of an overshare).

:)


message 29: by Sandybanks (last edited Oct 20, 2009 08:00PM) (new)

1889855 From Wikipedia :

"Asp is the modern Anglicisation of the word aspis, which in antiquity referred to any one of several venomous snake species found in the Nile region[citation needed:]. It is believed that the aspis referred to in Egyptian mythology is the modern Egyptian cobra.[1:]
Throughout dynastic and Roman Egypt, the asp was a symbol of royalty[citation needed:]. Moreover, in both Egypt and Greece, its potent venom made it useful as a means of execution for criminals who were thought deserving of a more dignified death than that of typical executions[citation needed:].
According to Plutarch (quoted by Ussher), Cleopatra tested various deadly poisons on condemned persons and animals for daily entertainment and concluded that the bite of the asp was the least terrible way to die; the venom brought sleepiness and heaviness without spasms of pain. The asp is perhaps most famous for its role in Cleopatra's suicide[2:] (some believe it to have been a horned viper)[1:][3:] as immortalized by both history and legend."

Apparently 'asp' refers to a particular species of snake, while 'adder' is a generic term for a poisonous snake. So Paula is not wrong when she referred to Cleo's snake as an 'adder'.

Interesting, the things that one learn on GR everyday!





message 30: by Paula, Co-moderator (new)

1727075 advocate - The name given to the lawyers (counterparts of the serjeants in the common law courts and barristers in the Court of Chancery) who argued cases in the old courts of ecclesiastical law and admiralty law in Doctors' Commons. The proctors, corresponding to solicitors in the other courts, assisted the advocates.

(p. 260)

I understand ecclesiastical law = church law, but had to check to confirm admiralty law = marine law (and some commercial law aspects)


message 31: by Laurele (last edited Oct 20, 2009 10:47PM) (new)

1719730 Paula wrote: "advocate - The name given to the lawyers (counterparts of the serjeants in the common law courts and barristers in the Court of Chancery) who argued cases in the old courts of ecclesiastical law an..."

Here's a little tidbit that I think is amusing: in French, the same word (avocat) is used for lawyer and avocado. Somehow I think Dickens would like that.


message 32: by Susan (new)

2226608 Sandybanks wrote: "From Wikipedia :

"Asp is the modern Anglicisation of the word aspis, which in antiquity referred to any one of several venomous snake species found in the Nile region[citation needed:]. It is beli..."


Moreover, in both Egypt and Greece, its potent venom made it useful as a means of execution for criminals who were thought deserving of a more dignified death than that of typical executions


when I went to turkey the Knight Templar Castle had a snake pit room that was used for those condemned to die


message 33: by Sandybanks (new)

1889855 Susan wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "From Wikipedia :

"Asp is the modern Anglicisation of the word aspis, which in antiquity referred to any one of several venomous snake species found in the Nile region[citation..."


So creepy! Should have visited that castle when I was in Turkey. Where is it, Susan?



message 34: by Sandybanks (new)

1889855 Laurele wrote: "Paula wrote: "advocate - The name given to the lawyers (counterparts of the serjeants in the common law courts and barristers in the Court of Chancery) who argued cases in the old courts of ecclesi..."

And also in Dutch : 'advocaat' is a lawyer and also a kind of eggnog. : )


message 35: by DJ (new)

2628150 Boof wrote: "Paula wrote: "Hmmm... the book has this term in neither the glossary nor the index. :(

All I was able to do was confirm your definition of a short love note (literally 'sweet note' from the tran..."


Boof,thank you !!
You have just solved a mystery for me as my Parents when the Repoductive Conversations took place kept refering to Condoms as French Letters and I `ve never figured out how they came up with the phrase,so you have solved a mystery for me.
Yours Gratefully.


message 36: by Boof, Moderator (new)

1253478 Always happy to be of assisance ;o)

I just wish that I could impart some great literary wisdom rather than be the font of all condom-related knowledge!


message 37: by DJ (new)

2628150 But all words have their base somewhere,and you gave me a happy flash(though slightly embarrassing)back to childhood!



message 38: by Paula, Co-moderator (new)

1727075 I like all the connections - although, how lawyers and avocados or eggnog are related I have no clue. I sense some potential jokes here though :)




message 39: by DJ (new)

2628150 Could we pickle an avdocat in advocate for instance?


message 40: by Anna (new)

213855 Sandybanks wrote: "Laurele wrote: "Paula wrote: "advocate - The name given to the lawyers (counterparts of the serjeants in the common law courts and barristers in the Court of Chancery) who argued cases in the old c..."

I thought advocaat was a strong spirit flavored with something unusual like caraway? What am I thinking of? Also, I think the origin of billet-doux earlier than the victorians, but I don't have any concrete evidence. Just a vague inkling that it pops up somewhere.


message 41: by Paula, Co-moderator (new)

1727075 Anna wrote: "Also, I think the origin of billet-doux earlier than the victorians, but I don't have any concrete evidence. Just a vague inkling that it pops up somewhere. ..."

When I was looking around for the definition and origin, several things pointed to first usage in the mid- to late-17th century. I think there is a relation between the term and some paintings (think distraught woman holding letter, which is falling out of her hand).




message 42: by Anna (new)

213855 Hmm.. I wonder if I'm remembering it from Clarissa or something?


message 43: by Susanna (new)

1109068 That seems possible, Anna.


message 44: by Starling (new)

2446676 Throughout dynastic and Roman Egypt, the asp was a symbol of royalty[citation needed:].

I have to laugh. Sometimes there is no need for a citation. In Egyptian art kings and queens wore copras on their foreheads as part of their crowns. Sometimes things just are.


message 45: by Sandybanks (new)

1889855 Starling wrote: "Throughout dynastic and Roman Egypt, the asp was a symbol of royalty[citation needed:].

I have to laugh. Sometimes there is no need for a citation. In Egyptian art kings and queens wore copras on ..."


It was quoted verbatim from Wikipedia. That's how they work, I guess.


message 46: by Paula, Co-moderator (new)

1727075 advowson - The right to appoint someone to a benefice

(p260)

Had to look up 'benefice' - an ecclesiastical office to which the revenue from an endowment is attached (care of Mariam-Webster dictionary)


message 47: by Sandybanks (new)

1889855 Paula wrote: "advowson - The right to appoint someone to a benefice

(p260)

Had to look up 'benefice' - an ecclesiastical office to which the revenue from an endowment is attached (care of Mariam-Webster di..."


Is this 'benefice' the same as a clergyman's 'living', which is often used in Jane Austen's novels?




message 48: by Laurele (new)

1719730 Paula wrote: "advowson - The right to appoint someone to a benefice

That's one I've never, ever heard before.


message 49: by Anna (new)

213855 Sandybanks wrote: "Paula wrote: "advowson - The right to appoint someone to a benefice

(p260)

Had to look up 'benefice' - an ecclesiastical office to which the revenue from an endowment is attached (care of Mariam-..."


Sounds like it might be.


message 50: by Paula, Co-moderator (new)

1727075 Sandybanks wrote: "Is this 'benefice' the same as a clergyman's 'living', which is often used in Jane Austen's novels?

I believe so - different sources actually refer to it as a 'living' in relation to clerical appointments.




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Books mentioned in this topic

Dickens' Fur Coat and Charlotte's Unanswered Letters: The Rows and Romances of England's Great Victorian Novelists (other topics)
A City of Bells (other topics)