It should assuming the request was made and accepted through the system.

I got a note from the person who was unable to accept my request saying he only had one copy and it was already requested. So why is it still showing up as available for swap? Shouldn't it "disappear" when someone requests it?

Ken-ichi wrote: "Ed, saw your previous message. We're working on making swap available people with US addresses outside of the states, but it will probably be a while. Sorry."


Thanks for your reply.

I guess I would have to change my profile to a U.S. address to participate. Correct?

Maybe I'll just stick with Bookmooch.

Ed, saw your previous message. We're working on making swap available people with US addresses outside of the states, but it will probably be a while. Sorry.

I live in Hong Kong but have a U.S. address, I can ship to/from. How do I access the Bookswap areas. As of now, the system keeps me out, either because I have Hong Kong listed as my home or I use a Hong Kong ISP.

Thanks for any help you can give.

To clarify, I think he's suggesting adding a new edition of the book clearly labeled as an ARC. There are some like that already in the database, actually.

Dena, as long as you can list an ARC as a book on Goodreads, you should be able to list it in Bookswap.

It was asked a while ago about ARCs. I get lots of ARCs that I'd love to be able to pass on to people who'd be interested, but since there's no way to say that's what they are, I can't list them. I know some swapping sites allow ARCs (bookmooch) and many don't (paperbackswap). Are you planning on allowing ARCs to be swapped as long as it's clearly noted that that's what is being offered?

Agree with other members, if there was a way to connect our swap-able books to our Paperback Swap (username Cideon) and/or BookMooch accounts if we wanted to, that would be awesome!

Ken-ichi wrote: "Hi everyone,

We're excited to announce a new feature here at Goodreads: bookswap!

http://www.goodreads.com/swap

Bookswap is a way to give away your books on Goodreads and get copies of b..."

I live in Hong Kong but have a U.S. address, I can ship to/from. How do I access the Bookswap areas. As of now, the system keeps me out, either because I have Hong Kong listed as my home or I use a Hong Kong ISP.

Thanks for any help you can give.

I made some polls to get more feedback about swap. Please vote!

http://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/26554...

http://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/26557...

Jimmy: good catch - we'll fix that.

Thanks for clearing up how karma works in this instance. The other times I've run into karma points online they've been generated largely by user feedback, so I guess I jumped to an inaccurate conclusion.

If the system is being designed to encourage equal swapping (anyone who wants books should also send some), then I still think credits are more fair. If you want something more open (just matching up those who want to give with those who want to receive), then it needs to be made clear somehow that users aren't out of line just because they request more than they send.

I want to second the suggestion that someone made a while ago to add more reasons for taking a book off your swap list.
The options now are too specific. Can you add more like:

Change my mind


Am sure others have more ideas about this but I recently removed one for that reason and I had to choose that I *loaned the book* to a friend. Which is not the case.

is it possible to have separate categories for "books I own" and "books available for swap"?

I have a book that I have marked as "owned" but then where it says "available for bookswap" i did not check that box.

However, on my profile, it says: "has a copy to sell/swap" in gray. That seems wrong, since I don't want to either sell or swap my copy. I just want to indicate that I own a copy.

Laurie wrote: "* I love the fact that the Goodreads system is NOT for 1:1 swaps. I want to be able to give my books away to people that want them, rather than dumping them all at Goodwill, not knowing whether they are ever loved. I literally have hundreds upon hundreds of books in my house and have lately come to realize that 1:1 swapping isn't letting me reclaim any more space. ;)"

Yes. All this talk of "karma" of balancing the books you give away vs the books you ask for is ignoring the fact that some users may have a bookshelf of books they want to clear out, and other users may want books but not have books to release in their place.

If the person receiving the book is paying for shipping, all the person giving up the book is sacrificing is a trip to the post office. Assuming, of course, you'd get rid of the book whether you swapped it or not.

All this discussion is great, but if we don't get the cost down, there won't be much traffic. There are so many books listed for swap, and people are not even requesting books that are on their wish list.
I feel disappointed, because nobody asked me for any of my books, and I have already asked and received three. If I keep requesting books, will I look like not "good and honest person"?:):):)

rivka wrote: "Scroll down on the main swap page. See "View the top 100 most wanted books"? That's the link. And just above it is "most wanted this week", which currently goes to the same place but I believe will..."

Thanks!

Scroll down on the main swap page. See "View the top 100 most wanted books"? That's the link. And just above it is "most wanted this week", which currently goes to the same place but I believe will go to a slightly differently place at some point.

Becky wrote: "You can browse the most popular wishlist books: http://www.goodreads.com/swap/most_wanted"

Thanks Becky! Is there a way to look at that page without using that link? I've looked around but haven't found anything.

You can browse the most popular wishlist books: http://www.goodreads.com/swap/most_wante...

I thought of something else. It would be great to browse what is on other people's wish lists, or most popular among other people. I frequent library sales where books are .25 & .50 cents and I like to stock up on books that a lot of other people are wanting.

I was very excited to discover this new swap feature just yesterday, so I'm going to throw my two cents in.

* I prefer karma over credits. The only swap site I use is Swaptree and I precisely picked them because they do not have credits. If a swap goes awry, they have a legal system to attempt to and/or deal with the problem. I've been swapping regularly for 6 months and have had only 1 problem with another user and it was resolved quickley.

* I love the fact that the Goodreads system is NOT for 1:1 swaps. I want to be able to give my books away to people that want them, rather than dumping them all at Goodwill, not knowing whether they are ever loved. I literally have hundreds upon hundreds of books in my house and have lately come to realize that 1:1 swapping isn't letting me reclaim any more space. ;)

* As for noting the condition, the guidelines that GR has implemented is very close to SwapTree's. I find that the majority of books I have received in swaps are in even better condition than the sender stated. I think most people want to err on the side of underestimating the condition, so they don't disappoint someone. Most of the books I have received look like they just came from the publisher and haven't even been opened and their condition is usually rated as "Good" or "Very Good".

* Finally I like the idea of lowering the shipping costs by charging the requester once a month (I believe this was mentioned way back on page 1 or 2 of this thread). SwapTree also does this and I just like it much better. Also, I'm willing to pay a bit more for postage if it means I don't have to drive to the post office & stand in line.

Whew, I think that's it! I have to say I'm very happy to see this implemented here on my very favorite site, even though my first request was declined. :(

Hmm. I haven't checked out the book swap feature that carefully but if these are the stats:

* requests made
* books sent
* books received

it doesn't show how many books are offered. There may be many offered but nobody has requested them yet. Those who are concerned about "fairness" should care about how many books are offered, not just how many have been sent.

I think that's current/pending requests, not completed requests. :)

I have to agree with you though, Tricia. I'd much rather a point/credit system for the actual swapping.

Although I don't see why we can't have both, with just the Karma score based on sent/received ratio with feedback tied in.

Also, How do you have 2 received if you have 0 requested? lol


Otis
Otis
434 books
1221 friends

* 0 requests made
* 1 book sent
* 2 books received

I dont like the Karma system simply because there are good people out there wanting books but may not have many to *put into the system*.

Why do they have to put back in to be *good and honest*?

When I like a book I tend to keep it. If I didnt like it as much I will swap it. (or if I hated it)

So if I come across more books I happen to like then not like I am basically screwed over by your karma system. When in fact I find myself to be a good and honest person willing to spend money on other peoples books they happen not to want.

That is, if people are going to start judging others by how many books they send out in this *karma* system. Money is money.. why does it matter is what I want to know?
And this is why I think it better to have some incentive for members to send their books out..

I really, really would like a "ship before" date like PBS does. I believe they allow up to 5 days, but I've rarely needed the entire window.

We are going to add this soon :)

Donna: I'm not sure if we explained how the karma works. There is no way a "misunderstanding" could affect your karma in the current system because there is no way for another user to rate you or your swap interaction.

The karma is simply based on how many books you've received, how many you've sent, and how many you've requested. (eg http://www.goodreads.com/swap/user/1 ). This will show if someone is just requesting and receiving a lot of books but not putting any back in.

Our theory is that people are generally good and honest, and thus will feel motivated to list and send off some books if they request and receive some. I know this will take some time to get used to if you are already familiar with other swap sites, so we are giving it a good trial. But it also could be people need the motivation of credits to feel good about getting some back when sending their books out into the world.

I agree too. But since EVERY bookswapping site uses a credit system, why not try the karma system at least for a little bit to see how it works. Is it in place now? I don't see a karma points or anything on my account, so I assume not. Maybe we can't really know how we feel about it unless we've implemented it and tried it.

I have to agree with you Donna.

I recently sent out my first book with the swap, and it wasn't an ideal situation using the printed label. I don't have a printer at home, so I had to print at work, which isn't a terrible inconvenience, but I've been working long hours lately to try to get ready for my vacation, and therefore I wasn't able to ship the book the day I printed the label... twice. Actually three times, but the last time I just shipped it anyway, hoping they'll take it.

I really, really would like a "ship before" date like PBS does. I believe they allow up to 5 days, but I've rarely needed the entire window.

I don't mind paying for shipping for books that I'm sending to someone, as long as I get a credit for it, which I agree with Donna on, but it's pretty inconvenient to have to ship the same day the label is printed. And the post office continues to resist my request for planning their hours around mine... ;)

I fully agree with Donna.. excellent post.

I still doubt I'll be participating until there are friends only or privacy options, but after thinking about it I've decided that I strongly prefer credits.

Publicly viewable karma ratings seem like they'll lead to more negativity and drama. Users are going to take things more personally if their swap attempts are criticized in front of the whole community. One or two mistakes (or unfair ratings) will sink someone's swap chances. Some shippers may be sending out sub-standard books, but some receivers could also have unreasonable expectations. If my karma got dinged because of a misunderstanding, I would be a bit upset at the idea that my GR friends might see it and think I wasn't a good trade prospect. And I'm not sure if it would work all that well, because people could always just try signing up for a new account once their karma got bad enough.

Credits would be a quieter option. Users who sent out unacceptable or poorly described books will still have feedback on the quality of their swaps, but they won't be publicly called out on them. I'd suggest that members get a small amount of credit for sending anything, but more credit if the requester is happy with the book's condition. Good swappers will benefit more from the system, and poor swappers won't have much incentive to participate. And if I think that the person I sent a book too dinged my credits unfairly, then it doesn't hurt my overall reputation - I just know not to send any more books to that person.

I also think it might be better if the shipper paid the postage. People might be less likely to send out unacceptable books if they knew that they'd be paying to ship and wouldn't get the full number of credits unless the book was as described.

Jimmy: We could easily do what LT did - it's just some simple API's. But we haven't been motivated to, as not many people have asked us for that.

I understand the issue about not knowing the condition of the book. It seems to be one of the bigger issues, and we're going to work on that a bit.

Keep the feedback coming on karma vs credits - this is definitely an experiment, and we need all the feedback we can get!

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I didn't read through all 230 messages:

LibraryThing has been doing something interesting with swapping too. They've been integrating themselves with swapping sites instead of developing their own. And I quote:

"So, we just did it, without asking permission, without deals—and without revenue sharing. We've set up the infrastructure to work with all sites and send them all details (I've put them up on the Thingology blog.) If swap sites tell us what they have available, and make the links work, they get to join our crew."

The full blog post is here: http://www.librarything.com/blog/2006/09...

Perhaps GR can do something similar?

Hmm..I wonder when this feature would be available in Indonesia *prays*

Jon wrote: "I wonder if the driving force behind paying up front for the shipping label is that GoodReads is making a kickback or a percentage on that transaction? I don't begrudge you the funds"

They do receive a percentage of the cost. I don't remember how much.

What is the "karma points implementation" you are talking about Otis? What does that mean? Is it what Tricia described, or did you have something else in mind?

I also prefer the points system.

Let me give you a little bit of insight as to the *why*.

Basically what happens when someone requests a book from me currently, I get to give a book away. Thats it.
I get no incentive to place books on this list because I get nothing out of it other then a warm fuzzy feeling that someone who wanted a book gets to have it.

Now I would much rather a credit/points system be in place where we can send off a book and get credit for a book that we can use any time we wish.

Credits/points can even be purchased so that those who do not have many books to swap can still get books via the system.

Anyhow I know everyone will have their own preferences but its going to be hard to deal with letting books go without getting something for them. To me thats the whole idea of a *swap*.
At least for me.

I prefer points as well. And I will continue to use BookMooch for just that reason.

I also prefer to go to my local post office. I often "save up" all my book trade shipping for one day a week and take a batch of books to send then.

I wonder if the driving force behind paying up front for the shipping label is that GoodReads is making a kickback or a percentage on that transaction? I don't begrudge you the funds (it would be similar to what happens with Amazon I'm sure), but I agree with Isis that not knowing the condition of the book, not being able to see it (like at a used book store), and paying $4 or more up front, just seems like it's asking too much.

I'd much prefer the points system. As it is now, with having to pay before hand (therefore pay online), I've opted not to use the system and to stick with PBS. I prefer to pay at the Post Office with cash.

Plus, for me, paying $4+ (I believe that's what I've heard the cost is) to trade a book is too much. Especially when I have to rely on the other user's honesty on the condition of the book. If I was at a used book store and could see it was in good condition, I might pay that much. But not for one where the condition is relatively unknown. With PBS, most books I trade, the cost is around $2.50. With the choice between trading here for $4+ or trading at PBS for $2.50, I'll take PBS.

But that's just my 2cents.

Also please note that last night we launched a big new piece that should really help - an "owned" view in your my books. This should help you easily note which of your books you own, and which you want to swap.

Would be cool if you could do away with the payment options altogether and go with a "points earned" system. If you send someone a book, once they confirm that it was sent, you get certain amount of points. You use those points to "buy" other people's books. So it would be like a GR only currency.

This is how all the other bookswap sites work, and is the biggest difference between our product and theirs. Our theory is that basing it off Karma points will work just as well, but it's definitely one of the major things we are testing out right now and we'd love more feedback on it, as we debated a lot whether or not to use credits or to try it with Karma points.

Our theory with karma points is that credits just felt too transactional, and that since we already have so many members here we didn't need to use credits to seed the system, as all the strict-swap sites have needed to. But it could be that the incentive to get credits would make things better - it's hard to say. We have had almost 3,000 books added to swap so far, and even though the feature is pretty hard to find, there have been quite a few swaps.

What do other members think - do you like our karma points implementation or would you prefer credits?

whoops, the link didn't work. Just go to GR bookswap and search for "Queneau"

If you do a plain search under bookswap, it will show you all the results of that book... including books where "no copies are available"! And there is no sorting function so that you would have to go through 10, 20 pages to find the book you're looking for that is also available.

see this example: http://www.goodreads.com/swap/search?sea...

rivka wrote: "Those are determined by tags people assign to books. "

since most of the info comes from amazon.com wouldn't be better to get the categories from them too?

Those are determined by tags people assign to books.

PS - For example, I noticed that Audacity of Hope appears in nonfiction as well as fiction. When I looked in the actual book record (as a GR librarian), I couldn't find anything about fiction or nonfiction. Hmm...

This is great. Some suggestions/things I noticed:

- Would be cool if you could do away with the payment options altogether and go with a "points earned" system. If you send someone a book, once they confirm that it was sent, you get certain amount of points. You use those points to "buy" other people's books. So it would be like a GR only currency.

- I noticed some nonfiction and poetry in the "browse->fiction" page. And some fiction on the "nonfiction" page. How are the genres determined? Are the books themselves mis-categorized in GR? Or is it the swapping feature that is messing this up?

OK that's it for now, I'm sure I'll have many more suggestions once I play around with it more.