Sarah wrote: "My memory of this is so foggy, given my many interruptions to this book, so remind me if I'm in error. Wasn't Joy's unhappiness with Griffin largely because of HIS unhappiness?"

I like Yulia's response to your comment much better than my own :)

Sarah wrote: "My memory of this is so foggy, given my many interruptions to this book, so remind me if I'm in error. Wasn't Joy's unhappiness with Griffin largely because of HIS unhappiness?"

Yes, that's how she explained it.

Very true. No matter how defined your sense of self, it seems it'd be daunting to live with someone so oblivious to his or her issues. Griffin's aha! moment of realizing he loved his parents showed he was making baby steps towards awareness, though anyone who didn't love him could easily dismiss it with, "That's all you've figured out?!"

My memory of this is so foggy, given my many interruptions to this book, so remind me if I'm in error. Wasn't Joy's unhappiness with Griffin largely because of HIS unhappiness?

Yulia wrote: "Couldn't it be both a dig and a compliment, though? I understood the insult, but it seemed to also carry with it a wistfulness for someone who could make her feel. "

Yes, I think it could be both :)

Couldn't it be both a dig and a compliment, though? I understood the insult, but it seemed to also carry with it a wistfulness for someone who could make her feel.

Yulia wrote: "What was very striking was when Joy said the guy she was dating in the second half didn't make her unhappy. I wondered, is that a good thing? Or is it only people we don't really care about who can't make us truly unhappy, as those we love can? It seemed such an evasive answer."

I didn't read it that way ... I thought it was a little dig at Griffin. I read it that Joy was saying that her date didn't make her unhappy, pointing out that he was a change from Griffin (who did make her unhappy).

I agree that I was superficial, Yulia, but I think it fits what Joy was going through.

Jane wrote: "Yulia said: What was very striking was when Joy said the guy she was dating in the second half didn't make her unhappy. I wondered, is that a good thing? Or is it only people we don't really care ..."

That's just it: she wasn't letting him get to her one way or the other. She couldn't be bothered to take him seriously. It was simply a superficial interaction.

Yulia said: What was very striking was when Joy said the guy she was dating in the second half didn't make her unhappy. I wondered, is that a good thing? Or is it only people we don't really care about who can't make us truly unhappy, as those we love can? It seemed such an evasive answer.

I love what you said there, Yulia, about it being people we don't care about that can't make us truly unhappy. I have found myself listening to people who say things that I disagree with, but since I don't like the person speaking very much, I don't want to take the time or energy to argue with the person.

Sarah, I like your reading of the book. Certainly people can't just wait for opportunities to come their way but make these opportunities or at least make them more probable in whatever way possible.

What was very striking was when Joy said the guy she was dating in the second half didn't make her unhappy. I wondered, is that a good thing? Or is it only people we don't really care about who can't make us truly unhappy, as those we love can? It seemed such an evasive answer.

This is a lesson in not reading books out of obligation, most of all.

Joe, that's a great anecdote about Russo at the Colby graduation ... it makes me wonder how much of his parent characters are autobiographical?

I thought there was certainly some similarity between Griffin's mother and the father in Empire Falls.

And I would certainly categorize That Old Cape Magic as "Russo lite".

Newengland wrote: "Aren't all Russo's "beach reads" of a sort? I put him in the same Dewey Decimal as Tom Perrotta, another "fun" writer with some ability."
richard russo s more than a 'beach writer'. he s a literary writer of which we have few in america today. name some living literary writers so i can look them up besides-johathan kran,john irving,phil roth,tom wolfe,don delillo,the writer of MASON DIXON,.
EMPIRE FALLS,BRIDGE OF SIGHS had themes,lessons for modern living,believable characters. STRAIGHT MAN was russo lite,making fun of academia and like part one of THAT OLD CAPE MAGIC. russo writes about parents,fathers mostly,who have a hardtime parenting. i didn t have much of a father so i love his books. at the COLBY graduation,with his daughter in the audience,richard said, 'you better be good parents cause your child may become a writer and write about you.' read richard. i will buy his book in paper back and read it again as i have done with all his books. i admit that the short story book which title i hated and which stories were not up to his standard, i didn t read twice,yet.

Sarah wrote: "Griffin would drive me crazy, though. And I did NOT experience him as being the same as his mother, who I thought was a raging narcissist. He just seemed clueless."

I think narcissists can be clueless as well :)

Yulia wrote: "I know other books in which the most important scene is purposefully left out (the one that comes to mind right now is Banville's The Sea), but in this case it seemed more a result of Griffin's need to recap events and not a more key element of the plot. If anything, framing the book with the two weddings seemed rather forced, but maybe this says more about my discomfort with the tradition of expensive weddings. "

But I was SO SICK of Griffin re-capping everything! It made sense that he was re-capping things from the past, but it didn't make sense to re-cap a scene that happened the weekend of Kelsey's wedding, since the reader is already experiencing everything else as it is happening. And I didn't see any good craft/narrative reason to do it, either.

Griffin would drive me crazy, though. And I did NOT experience him as being the same as his mother, who I thought was a raging narcissist. He just seemed clueless.

Yes, I am. I'm not sure I'd want any of them as clients, though. :) Well, I might take Sunny or Joy. Or Tommy. He seems like a lost little boy.

Sarah wrote: "I also felt like Sunny was not dealt with fully. He was an interesting character, to me, in the beginning...but he fizzled. It seemed as if Russo found him at the beginning of the novel, but then couldn't figure out what to do with him at the end."

I agree! The story could have functioned just as easily without Sunny, so I frequently found myself wondering, "Why is he here? What is his purpose?" He didn't influence the plot or the direction of the story, he didn't influence any other other characters. He was kind of just ... there. I was surprised by his appearance as a guest at Kelsey's wedding, considering that Kelsey wasn't really friends with him (at least, not the way that Laura was) - what, did she invite everyone she'd ever met in her entire life to her wedding? It just seemed very odd that she would invite him - but it does make sense that he accepted the invitation.

Sarah, are you a therapist? I think these characters definitely could use your help!

Here I am. I finally finished this over the weekend. It was a very odd experience. I read pretty steadily until I had about 100 pp to go, and then several other books intruded. After awhile, I realized that it was more than my usual "reading several at a time" style; Cape Magic just wasn't drawing me back in. I believe if you two hadn't been waiting for me, I would not have finished it. When I did return to it, out of obligation, I realized that I had inadvertently left off exactly at the point of the "new" wedding, which meant that I had experienced a similar time lag (albeit not Griffin's year) that was in the book. Consequently, I had some memory lapses. It took me quite a few minutes after reading who Griffin was in the hotel bed with to remember who Marguerite was.

In the end, my reaction was similar to both of yours. I don't think this is even close to what Russo is capable of...Yulia, please read Empire Falls before you give up on the man. That is a masterpiece. I wish we'd decided on Bridge of Sighs...not the least because I bought this in hardback and I now wish I hadn't! I experienced almost all of the characters as feeling as if they were acted upon in their lives, as victims of circumstances, and as relatively impotent to take decisive control of their lives. Griffin's parents, Joy, Sunny, Tommy--all of these people seem to me to have drifted through their lives and let external forces dictate their direction. They seem to differ only in how happy (or not) they are with where the wind blew them.

There's a line on the bottom of p. 239 that sums it up for me: "What did it mean that he had so little access to something as straightforward as what he really wanted?" I don't know what it means, either, but it was really frustrating for me. I realize that none of us control what happens TO us in life, but Griffin (and others) seem to have lost the ability to even identify what he really wanted, much less move toward it.

If these people were my clients, I would be hard pressed not to shout "Wake up and take charge of your life!" Sometimes, we have to CREATE those moments of grace instead of waiting for them to drop in our laps. And it doesn't even sound like Griffin would know what his particular moments of grace would look like.

I also felt like Sunny was not dealt with fully. He was an interesting character, to me, in the beginning...but he fizzled. It seemed as if Russo found him at the beginning of the novel, but then couldn't figure out what to do with him at the end.

I see your point about Griffin's skewed perception affecting his portrayal of his father, but ach, it's difficult to accept the voice of someone who's not just clueless, but lazy, which for me is the worst kind of unreliable narrator. You're right that having others' perspectives would have made Griffin's clunkiness more bearable and the only other character whose voice was given extended attention besides his was his mother's and, as he himself notes, they practically share a voice, so this doesn't offer much contrast.

I know other books in which the most important scene is purposefully left out (the one that comes to mind right now is Banville's The Sea), but in this case it seemed more a result of Griffin's need to recap events and not a more key element of the plot. If anything, framing the book with the two weddings seemed rather forced, but maybe this says more about my discomfort with the tradition of expensive weddings.

But didn't it come off as though Laura spent more time engaged to Andy than she had spent dating him? And likely they, like her parents, would also be discussing what kind of life they'd share together during their honeymoon instead of having discussed these not small matters before committing to each other. What's that about? I can understand if you marry on a whim in Las Vegas, but not if you spend a year engaged.

No, Griffin never was an active participant in his life, but it didn't seem as if the other main characters were very active, either. Weren't they all simply waiting or scheming for someone else to save them? For that moment of grace Griffin always counted on? Even his mother, who had such a pushy nature, was left at the hands of the academic powers-that-be to determine where she lived and taught. And Laura may have decided not to date before finding someone worthy of marrying, but her entire courtship with Andy was unconvincing, as if they were merely behaving as they should. That may have been Russo's intention, to suggest many individuals don't find themselves until they're already married and with kids, but is that enough to explain how lost the characters seemed?

Of course, all this is skewed by Griffin's portrayal of events and characters, so you can say his own limited perception acted as a constraint in his conveying the nuances of the others, but if this were the case, more of their actions should have been confusing rather than predictable.

I hadn't seen the article on his being a misogynist, but if his work shows a virgin-whore complex, he certainly emasculated Sunny and put him decidedly into the virgin category. I also found his portrayal of the lesbian couple problematic: they were too much mirrors of each other, implying that to love someone of the same sex is an act of self-love. Or again, we could use the excuse of Griffin's being clueless as to how they were dissimilar.

Hmm . . .

Yulia wrote: "Since this is my first Russo, I can't say what effect the change of editor had on his work, but I did notice *repeatedly* in this novel, That Old Cape Magic, how lazily some sections were written, ..."

I think the description about his father and the bookshelf - was one of the multiple ways that Russo was trying to show just how skewed/cock-eyed Griffin's perception of his parents really was; the problem is that we never had anyone else's perception to counter that (b/c the entire story was told through Griffin's eyes) and that lack of contrast only drew attention to the clunkiness; had Griffin's view been juxtaposed with that of another character or an omniscient narrator, it would have offered good insight into his character ... and would have made the impasse between he and Joy more believeable.

I'm not sure if Joy ever did apologize, since we never really saw the scene between them. It was alluded to and re-capped later, but the reader didn't get to experience the entire fight first-hand. Probably the most important scene in the book, and he LEFT IT OUT?!? Honestly, I didn't understand the motives or actions behind most of the characters in this book - it was so muddled and rushed, so much memory and very little character growth, as if griffin was never an active participant in his own life, that he spend his life as a spectator.

Maybe that was the point - maybe he was so detached from everything that he never really understood what was happening in his own life, why he missed so much of what was going on around him. His parents' continued affair, to which he was clueless, and Joy's own unconsummated affair, etc.

Do you remember that article that came out decrying Russo as a mysoginist, that all his female characters suffered from the madonna/whore complex? I think his female characters do fall into that category (but I don't think he's a mysogynist), but the men are just as stereotypical. If all his women (in this book) are either madonnas or whores, then all his male characters are bumbling (and frequently hoodwinked) fools or hyper-aggressive.

Since this is my first Russo, I can't say what effect the change of editor had on his work, but I did notice *repeatedly* in this novel, That Old Cape Magic, how lazily some sections were written, not only with hackneyed phrases but in portraying key characters so clumsily that the details' wrongness distracted you from any potential small insight into the character. For instance, when Griffin was saying his parents were mechanically inept, that I could understand from personal experience, but to recall that his father put together shelves always with one shelf upside down and backwards (bare side up and out) was ridiculous and tested my patience. I may not know how to construct an IKEA shelf, but which side is up doesn't take a mechanical engineering degree.

Shelves aside, I did think the book had its moments, like in the yew tree.

What I can't remember, Erin, is whether Joy ever actually apologized for having fallen in love with Tommy (whatever happened between them) or if she simply used the incident to blame Griffin for his own lack of empathy and cluelessness. It seemed she was using her disappointment with Griffin as an excuse for not coming to terms with her straying. Wasn't it right then for Griffin to give Joy space to decide what she wanted in life? Was her admission she should have been at his mom's side in December saying as much--that they were both paralyzed by inertia?

Mary Ellen wrote: "To those thinking about reading "Empire Falls," I am sending my encouragement to do so. It's a great book; I liked "Bridge of Sighs" very much, but "Empire Falls" even more."

I agree, Mary Ellen, I loved Empire Falls, but I haven't read Bridge of Sighs yet (though it is on my list).

I have to say, after Empire Falls, I was very disappointed by That Old Cape Magic. Sorry, Mr. Russo, but it clearly isn't your best work - of course, Empire Falls is a difficult book to follow, but this felt like it was written quickly and not revised enough.

It makes me wonder if this has something to do with his editor ... when I went to see him read, he talked about how his editor at Random House (1988-1997, 2009-) gave him limited, general notes notes, while his Knopf editor (2001-2007) gave him very detailed, close-read notes. I would have to read more of his books to really explore this possibility, but I would be interested in hearing if anyone else who has read more of Russo has noticed a difference between his Knopf and Random House books.

I'm not saying I think it's a bad book, just that I was expecting more. Although I think that this one just might qualify as a beach read.

To those thinking about reading "Empire Falls," I am sending my encouragement to do so. It's a great book; I liked "Bridge of Sighs" very much, but "Empire Falls" even more.

OK, I finished reading yesterday. Sarah, how far along are you? Should we wait until you're finished to begin the discussion?

And I was sure, despite your previous warning, that you'd read this one straight through since it goes so quickly.

I purchased the book yesterday (and wandered into Border's buy-one-get-one-half-off sale, so also stole the new Pamuk...can I wait to give it to myself for Christmas? We shall see.)

I think there's a period missing up there but I can't figure it out.

I'm about 50 pp in. I needed a dose of Bill Bryson last night, so I didn't get very far with the Russo. I am not displeased with him yet. :)

Sarah wrote: "I'm sorry, I'm definitely behind and lagging. My mom was in town and supposed to leave on Sunday, but we discovered U2 was in town last night and seeing them live was #1 on her to-do-before-I-die ..."

It's OK, I'm behind too!!!

I'm sorry, I'm definitely behind and lagging. My mom was in town and supposed to leave on Sunday, but we discovered U2 was in town last night and seeing them live was #1 on her to-do-before-I-die list. She changed her flight and we were out til 1AM. It was a great show. I'll stop by the bookstore today.

I intend to read Cape Magic. Just not right now. Too many other books on the plate.

I love those observations, Yulia, thank you.

Bridge of Sighs is the only Russo I've read, and I liked it a lot, without exactly loving it. Empire Falls is the one I want to read (I think it was on the CR Reading List before I found the group).

No worries at all. I apologize for starting the discussion without you and Sarah having finished it already.

Yulia wrote: "I will say, though, that I had fun reading TOCM, a response which can't be underestimated, and saw my own foibles and struggles in what Griffin or other characters were struggling with. In no part..."

Yulia, sorry, but I got may class schedule mixed up, so I'm reading Elizabeth Bowen for class this week and I have next week off. So I will read as quickly as I can Thursday and Friday so I can discuss on Saturday. Sorry - I feel like a slacker :(

I will say, though, that I had fun reading TOCM, a response which can't be underestimated, and saw my own foibles and struggles in what Griffin or other characters were struggling with. In no particular order:

(1) I had to laugh in seeing my own mother's barbed views in the prejudices of Griffin's mother. And admittedly, I've thought some of those things myself, if less caustically (though I may very well come off as rude since I speak so bluntly), so it was comical to hear how nastily those views sounded when expressed by someone else. For better or worse, I have no personal experience of exile in the mid-f***ing west (which cracked me up each time, I have to admit, as if it were Siberia). Yes, I actually liked the critical mother, made so vivid and wretchedly annoying yet endearing by Russo.

(2) I appreciated Griffin's dread of becoming like his parents and his wife's chiding him, "Now whom have I heard that from?" or something to the effect when Griffin does express something akin to his mom's judgmental snobbery.

(3) It amused me when someone noted kids always think their parents stayed together for their sake, until they find out it had nothing to do with them. And here I thought I was the reason my parents have stayed together . . . :)

(4) Though not a novel subject in any way, I appreciated Russo's depiction of the struggle it is for adults to cope with their in-laws during get-togethers they can no longer make excuses to get out of without alienating themselves and making enemies of their family-in-law. It takes ages to accept one's own family and know how to deal with them: why must it be pushed on us to deal with the families of our loved ones on top of that? This was certainly a challenge I confronted myself.

(5) I liked how it was made explicit that Griffin won arguments not because he was in the right but because he possessed superior rhetorical skills to gain the advantage. Disputes are often more nuanced than overwhelming personalities would have you stop to consider, but then it takes exceptional skill to rattle off these nuances to explain why a face-to-face discussion may not always be the fairest way to settle a disagreement (hence the beauty of emails).

(6) Russo captured the awkwardness of competing in the same field as one's partner as well as the lurking sense that staying together and fulfilling one's emotional needs may not be the best way to fulfill one's career goals (but was that glittering future all one imagined it could be?).

(7) Finally, despite my frustration with his waiting for a moment of grace to save him from his aggravating stubbornness, I did root for Griffin to get back together with Joy both because she made him a better person and because he made her more honest with herself.

Nor could it be that bad if it's gotten me to now read Bridge of Sighs. :)

Marian, Straight Man is my favorite Russo novel.

Yulia, I appreciate the points you are making about Cape Magic. They remind me of my own reactions when I first read this book. OCM would be very low on my list of favorite Russo books

Yulia wrote: "Thanks so much, NE! I liked the last line of the interview about the humor in his otherwise darkly-themed work: "I was going to have to let loose my profound conviction that the world is a very, v..."
Yulia,
I really like that quote also. Russo views Obama like I do. People are chipping away at him, but that is a subject for another thread.

Jane

I think one shortchanges oneself if one reads only classics. Sure, they're going to be good. The reason they've survived is because they're good. Time has done the selecting for us. The junk has not survived.

If we read the new stuff we have to do our own selecting. Some of them will be awful, some okay, others wonderful. Some may not have the guts to last the years, but they may speak brilliantly to our exact place and time.

Not reading the new stuff is kind of like ordering the prime rib and potatoes every time. It will be good of course, but why not take a chance on the rare salmon with walnut sauce? It might blow your mind.

I can't think of any author whose every book is a success. Updike was great with his short stories, his early novels, the "Rabbit" books are masterpieces, but his later novels - "neh".
Russo - yes to Empire Falls, Bridge of Sighs. Maybe I'll finish Straight Man. The Cape book sounds interesting, I'll see what the reaction here is.
There are so many good authors, so many books, so little time...
To our reader of "only classics" there are modern classics, too. Have you tried any Pulitzer's lately, or British & Canadian winners? How about Margaret Atwood? Isabel Allende, Good Heavens, there is so much great reading out there. (Good Indiana writers, too to the poster above , Dan Wakefield, Hayden Kimmel, "The Hoosier Schoolmaster"...

Re: Indiana, Jane, I spent so much time slamming it when I lived there that I forgive others. It took a lot of growing up for me to appreciate its positives. But, there are, at least, two excellent universities in Indiana so I'm surprised that he chose that angle.

Thanks so much, NE! I liked the last line of the interview about the humor in his otherwise darkly-themed work: "I was going to have to let loose my profound conviction that the world is a very, very entertaining place when it’s not breaking our hearts."

Today's Boston Globe Sunday Magazine published a short interview with Russo about That Old Cape Magic (and other stuff). I never knew he lived in Maine (my neighbor -- summers, anyway)!

The link for Russophiles:

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/magazi...

Yulia,
You are helping me to remember the book. I have been getting the mother confused with the mother in SOUTH OF BROAD by Pat Conroy which I recently finished. In both books, the mothers are impossible to please.

I also remember that Russo slams Indiana on the third page of the book since the parents teach at what they consider a second rate university in Indiana. Since I received much of my education in Indiana, I wondered about that. I didn't take offense though. People do like to pick on Indiana, but we can take it (right, Barb?).

Yes, I, too, hoped she got together with Sunny. I kept on waiting for it to be revealed Laura was actually going to marry Sunny, that something happened in the intervening year to make her question her connection with Andy. The relationship between her and Andy was so lifeless. We didn't know anything at all about him (besides his being perfect), about his connection with Laura, or how they'd known so quickly they were meant to be together. He was frustratingly enigmatic, especially compared to how much time was spent exploring Sunny's background and character. But even with Sunny, whom I liked very much, the narrator saw him too much as representative of the immigrant experience in America, which was rather aggravating. But was I *meant* to be aggravated by this? I kept on wondering.

As for the different memories of his childhood, I liked that element, too (especially about the Browning summer). What surprises me from my own experience is how similar my view of my childhood was to my three brothers, though they never spoke to me and, even in some cases, didn't know where I was in the household while they were growing up (it was a very small home, the first apartment, so there's no accounting for this and I wasn't hiding in any attic, either).

My favorite scene with his mother was when she was in the hospital, struggling to explain her view of his daughter Laura, first saying she so . . . kind, as if she'd never met anyone like that, then how it made her feel . . . ashamed, as if she'd never felt that way before, but finally how Laura must not be very smart. That pronouncement was no struggle to express, as it was her usual view of people. That was hilarious.

Yulia,
I agree with you about the flat characters in the novel, but I can't think of much else to say about them. I do remember hoping that Laura would get together with Sunny who seemed much more interesting than Andy. Wasn't there a part about they way the narrator remembers his childhood as opposed to the way his mother described it? I liked that very much because it resonated with me. When my brother and I talk about certain events in our childhood, it seems like we are talking about two entirely different things. Memory does play tricks on us.

Jane, since you've finished the book, though you can't recall it well (which I can't blame you for), did you have the sense it was lazily written for large stretches (it seemed like something he had to rush out on deadline or couldn't bother to be original with)? The flat portrayals of so many characters (the hard-working Korean Sunny, the combative Marine, the doting one-dimensional fiance Andy, the bratty child, the bitter second wife Dot) also got to me, but then I tried to convince myself that was intentionally done because they were how the protagonist himself or his mother saw people, not how they actually were, the point being he was too self-involved to see people for who they were. Or that people have more secrets and layers of character that they would at first suggest. But even this message seemed rather flimsy on second thought. What made me cringe most was when he said how proud he was of his daughter Laura's waiting for Mr. Right instead of Mr. Right Now: that was a line right out of chick lit.

Newengland,

Paul Newman was also in Empire Falls. He played the free-loading father of the main character.

Back to that Old Cape Magic!

Thanks for the kind words, Denise, which it would be rude of me not to acknowledge.

Denise wrote: "I was only lurking here, but I had found the discussion interesting. Since I'm not reading this particular book at this time due to an overwhelming TBR shelf, I'll leave this thread.

I just wanted to engcourage Michael not to censor himself too heavily in other threads. In many cases it's perfectly alright to digress or let thought take what direction it will.

I'm perfectly fine with leaving this thread for book-specific discussion, but please don't feel like you have to limit yourself other places..."

Newengland wrote: "You mean, there isn't a thread in CR with this parlor game? It might make interesting discussion both for fans of classical and fans of contemporary books."

This Mod doesn't remember such a thread. It would take a search to find it. So if you want to start one, NE, go right ahead. Could be interesting.

"If you build it, they will come. If it's already built, it's in Fodor's."

Newengland wrote: "You mean, there isn't a thread in CR with this parlor game? It might make interesting discussion both for fans of classical and fans of contemporary books."

I'm not sure, actually. Maybe one of the moderators or another CR would know.