Boof wrote: "I agree that this is tauter than Lady Audley, although I loved that too. I think I must really love Victorian sensationalism stories! I just love the OTT drama and coincidences and "dun dun derrrr!..."

Boof, you make things so exciting!

I agree that this is tauter than Lady Audley, although I loved that too. I think I must really love Victorian sensationalism stories! I just love the OTT drama and coincidences and "dun dun derrrr!!!" at the end of each chapter, lol. I feel like I did when I was a child and my parents would read me a bed time story and I used to almost hold my breath because I couldn't wait to see what happened next!

Boof wrote: "OK, I'm ready to join in. I started a few days ago and have just reached the end point of this thread.

So far: I LOVE IT!!! I love it in the same way that I loved Lady Audley's Secret in that ..."

Hey Boof glad you are enjoying it too - it has been so long since I last read it it is totally new. There are some real similarities with Lady Audley, but I feel Collins is just so much tauter - it is really tense - especially when you get down to the close character observations.

DJ wrote:
Dear Silver,this could possibly be due to the fact that she feels that within her own Diary that she can drop her protective shell and be her own person?

Yes, that does make sense, and perhaps it is also a way of making her more "human" if you will. It shows another side of her, and shows that she is capable of deep emotion even though on her outter shell she hides it. In her diary she perhaps does feel she is able to let the things out which she does not wish others to see for fear of being percivied as weak, and perhaps becasue she must always be the rock for her sister.

Dear Silver,this could possibly be due to the fact that she feels that within her own Diary that she can drop her protective shell and be her own person?

I have read about 250 pages but somehow Marian has made me want to put it down for a while. I felt the story for me change when she started into her diary but maybe that is all in my head. I think Silver also raised some question about the diary too so I think there must be something more to be said about it.

OK, I'm ready to join in. I started a few days ago and have just reached the end point of this thread.

So far: I LOVE IT!!! I love it in the same way that I loved Lady Audley's Secret in that that style is very easy to follow and the pace of the book is so quick (no draggy bits yet) and it's such a fun story. I love other vics for the prose etc but this book is a really good story and great fun.

I can just imagine being back in 1861 and waiting with bated breath for the next paper to come out so I could continue reading. It's the sort of book that would have made you gasp and get excited and want to disucss with friends at every installment.

I love the story being told from different perspectives too. Sometimes this doesn't work in a book as it has a totally differnt feel and can be off-putting, but not WiW - it really works.

I'm enjoying myself so much reading this book!

DJ wrote: Hi Siver,personally I do not find Marions narrative taking the form of a Diary to be insulting as I believe that she kept a much more detailed and organised one than the usual Ladies Diaries of the time(not filled with Dresses and fripperies!).

Yes that is true, though it is interesting how within her diary she does start to show a more "feminine" or emotional side, that is not typically assocaited with her character and personality. To a degree in her diary she at times seems to give into more of the steroytpical female weakness, though she does always pull herself together and do what must be done.

Sandybanks wrote: "Heidi wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "Christy wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "Ally wrote: "Christy wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "I've now read to page 200. This is a pretty fast read for a classic. I don't quit..."

She probably wasn`t fully aware of it as back then Women were mere chattels!!

Ally wrote: "Paula wrote: "Lauren wrote: "The style in which it's written, the sensationalism, the downright silliness.
..."

Your comment caught my attention, as I fell in love with the book very early on...."

Dear Paula and Ally,
I am so glad it is not just me that loves this book for the multiple perspectives!As a child the first time I read it I fell in love with the fact that there were so many directions that people took the story in!and I also think that it was a good influence as it made me aware at a very young age that there are always at least two sides to things,and for that alone I am very grateful to Mr Collins and to my parents who never censored my reading in any way!!!

Paula wrote: "Those are interesting questions, Silver. I didn't think about this as deeply as you did; I thought it was interesting that there is no mention made of Marian and a love interest. I thought there co..."

Could it not possibly be a reference to Marion filling the void Mother Role in Lauras life?

Silver wrote: "Is it demeaning in a way to have Marian tell her story in the form of her diary entries? In spite of her intellect, and her rationality, and the traits of her personality that are seen as "masculin..."

Hi Siver,personally I do not find Marions narrative taking the form of a Diary to be insulting as I believe that she kept a much more detailed and organised one than the usual Ladies Diaries of the time(not filled with Dresses and fripperies!).

Regarding Marions apparent"asexuality"again I believe this to be a device used by Mr Collins to make us more receptive to Marion as a rescuer for Laura and as an aid to her practical side.With a view toward her possible feelings toward Walter Hartright...isn`t it more a case of she may have been deeply attracted to him but given her circumstances and practical sensibilities she knew very early on that there could be no future for them!And that she was actually sad at having to send him away from Laura as she felt that he would have been a most suitably protective Husband for her beloved Sister!

Silver wrote: "Well in the book she was asked to where the cloak by her friends at the Todd form because they thought it was peculiar her wearing white all of the time, and worried of what other people would thin..."

In all fairness people may have been stunned at her always wearing White as it really wasn`t a practical colour for the time,i.e trying to keep white clothes clean and fresh looking.Particularly if you were quite low down on the social scale and did not have servants or a personal Maid which most Ladies had...

Paula wrote: "Ally - feeding off your discussion of 'white' as a symbol of purity and alignment with angels, what do you make of the scene near Limmeridge where Walter finds Anne wearing a dark cloak and bonnet,..."

I must admit that I have always thought that it was to make her blend in to try and protect her...

But Paula,I think your suggestion is a flash of intellectual Genius!!!

Barbara wrote: "Two things: Walter is not a "sir," he's a "mr." And is anybody else nuts about the dog who hates the new husband? The way Collins has the dog act around the husband is just terrific. And yes, I ..."

Yes Barbara I have always found that to be a very telling hint about the Husbands Character,you know what they say about Dogs being good judges of Character.(I have found this to be so in real life!!)

Heather wrote: "Darcy wrote: "There's a story that Collins got the idea for this novel after meeting an actual woman in white that he ran into one evening by accident, while hanging out with Charles Dickens and Jo..."

Hi Heather,I don`t think Wilkie Collins ever married at all...

Scott wrote: "At first I was unsure as to how I would handle the switching narrative, but it seems to have lent itself to be almost a tool to the mysteries and evolution of the story. Somewhat like a film that f..."

Dear Scott,I think that the reason that Collins wrote Marions character to be ugly is that in those days a Woman survived on her looks or if she was in anyway average/ugly she had to be of a high intelligence!
Men couldn`t have coped with a Woman who was both Beautiful and Intelligent!!!!

It's got Irene Adler too!

No kidding! He's too short to be Holmes. And Jude Law as Dr. Watson!? I'm still super excited about it, though.

Okay, sorry for the thread hijack. Back to WiW ;)

Scott wrote: "Heidi wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "Heidi wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "Christy wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "Ally wrote: "Christy wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "I've now read to page 200. This is a pretty fast..."

It seems that one of the point that Collins wanted to make in the book is how helpless women are in a marriage. Apparently he considered the institution of marriage to be unfair and degrading for women. To show this, he made Laura as completely helpless as possible.

Darcy wrote: "Is anyone going to see the Sherlock Holmes movie coming out? The previews look really good. "

When they first announced Robert Downey Jr. as SH, I was pretty skeptical --- I mean, he's a good actor, but he doesn't look like Holmes at all! But I'll go see it and hope that it will be good. : )

Rebecca wrote: "I am sorry I don't understand the reading break down chapters vs epoch 1,2 3. I am just starting my reading."


Thank you Paula for putting together something that will work for me. You are awsome. I love this group.

Darcy wrote: "Is anyone going to see the Sherlock Holmes movie coming out? The previews look really good. "

Probably not. The books have never held much appeal for me.

Heidi wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "Heidi wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "Christy wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "Ally wrote: "Christy wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "I've now read to page 200. This is a pretty fast read for a cl..."

this book will really ruffle the feathers of anyone who is for equal rights. but i wonder if it was the authors point to do that.

Sandybanks wrote: "Heidi wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "Christy wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "Ally wrote: "Christy wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "I've now read to page 200. This is a pretty fast read for a classic. I don't quit..."

i think because she was underage.

Is anyone going to see the Sherlock Holmes movie coming out? The previews look really good.

Paula wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "Paula, I've read a couple of them. They're cheeky and pretty entertaining. Have you read the Laurie King Holmes series?
..."

Oohhh - never heard of them! Same topic? I love a..."

I love Sherlock too, Paula. : )

Laurie King's series is about Mary Russell (a new character that she created) and
Holmes. I've only read two of them.

Can anyone recommend a good Holmes pastiche/sequel?

Sandybanks wrote: "Paula, I've read a couple of them. They're cheeky and pretty entertaining. Have you read the Laurie King Holmes series?
..."

Oohhh - never heard of them! Same topic? I love all things Holmesian, I must admit.

Paula wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "I thought that Fosco's admiration of her is akin to Sherlock Holmes' admiration of Irene Adler. : )
..."

A bit off topic, but have you read any of Carole Nelson Douglas's ser..."

Paula, I've read a couple of them. They're cheeky and pretty entertaining. Have you read the Laurie King Holmes series?

Rebecca wrote: "I am sorry I don't understand the reading break down chapters vs epoch 1,2 3. I am just starting my reading."

Hi Rebecca - apologies for the confusion. My version did not have numbered chapters, so I tried to break the book into 4 relatively equal sections in regard to page numbers. The narratives are listed in the first post under each discussion to help determine which 'chapters' we're referencing.

Please let me know if you have any questions - I hope you enjoy the book! :)

I am sorry I don't understand the reading break down chapters vs epoch 1,2 3. I am just starting my reading.

Sandybanks wrote: "Heidi wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "Christy wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "Ally wrote: "Christy wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "I've now read to page 200. This is a pretty fast read for a classic. I don't quit..."

I thought her guardian signed because she was underage. But it was damned sexist that Gilmore didn't feel he had to tell her about it. Very much in keeping with the times, of course.

Sandybanks wrote: "I thought that Fosco's admiration of her is akin to Sherlock Holmes' admiration of Irene Adler. : )
..."

A bit off topic, but have you read any of Carole Nelson Douglas's series of Irene Adler? I was in a mood for a brief spell and ran through the series. Enjoyable in a light-hearted, easy-read kind of way. I guess I just missed Sherlock Holmes :)

Heidi wrote: "Lauren wrote: "Yep, Edward Fairfax Rochester. I love it when he says "call me Edward" *turns to gooey mess*

Heidi, a possible romance between Marian and Count Fosco sounds interesting. So the two ..."

I thought that Fosco's admiration of her is akin to Sherlock Holmes' admiration of Irene Adler. : )

Heidi wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "Christy wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "Ally wrote: "Christy wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "I've now read to page 200. This is a pretty fast read for a classic. I don't quite understand w..."

But shouldn't Laura be informed of the content of the document that she is going to sign (the marriage settlement) at some point? It must have happened offstage some time before the marriage.

POTENTIAL SPOILER FOR CHAP. 1 -3

After she is married, she absolutely refuses to sign a legal document which content she is not aware of. Considering this, it would be difficult to belief that she was not aware of the nature of the marriage settlement when she had to sign that document.

Or did her guardian signed it instead of her because she was underage?

Sandybanks wrote: "Christy wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "Ally wrote: "Christy wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "I've now read to page 200. This is a pretty fast read for a classic. I don't quite understand why Laura decided to..."

I must point out in Laura's defense that for reasons I never understood, the lawyer spoke to neither Laura nor Marian about Percival's demands on the engagement settlement, only their guardian, who was too lazy to do anything about it.

Lauren wrote: "Christy wrote: "Lauren wrote: "I've only read Great Expectations and an abridged version of Oliver Twist, so I don't feel qualified to say! I didn't like GE much.

As for Charlotte Bronte, I lov..."

I've finished with WiW and I have to agree with your asessment, Lauren. Mr. Rochester and Jane Eyre they are not.

Christy wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "Ally wrote: "Christy wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "I've now read to page 200. This is a pretty fast read for a classic. I don't quite understand why Laura decided to marry Sir Perci..."

POTENTIAL SPOILER FOR CHAP. 1-3



Frankly, I find Laura unintelligent and spineless. She doesn't need to marry Percival for economic reason as she is wealthy in her own right. She should have gotten out (the door is wide open for her to terminate the engagement), when Percival shows his bad faith in the settlement negotiation. She seems like a ready-made victim, and perhaps that's how Collins intended her to be.

Lauren wrote: "Yep, Edward Fairfax Rochester. I love it when he says "call me Edward" *turns to gooey mess*

Heidi, a possible romance between Marian and Count Fosco sounds interesting. So the two unattractive ..."

Not exactly a romance, but you'll see.

Yep, Edward Fairfax Rochester. I love it when he says "call me Edward" *turns to gooey mess*

Heidi, a possible romance between Marian and Count Fosco sounds interesting. So the two unattractive people get together, do they? How convenient :D

I'm on page 100-and something. Can't remember. So I probably shouldn't be making judgements - and yet with other books my attention has been captured almsot immediately.

Christy, I completely agree! I love how it unfolds. It may well not be the most ordinary and relatable of courtships but it's the one I aspire to :) It's thoroughly convincing, which I suppose is its great merit. I mean, how many books could throw in a mad wife in the attic, wild coincidences such as stumbling across long-lost cousins on the moors etc. and still be convincing?

Heidi wrote: "(what was his first name, I wonder? It's always "Mr Rochester" to the end, as far as I remember??) ..."

Edward :) I only remember because the dog on the sitcom 'Frasier' is named Eddie, and for some reason I always think of the two together. Short, barrel-chested, sometimes hard to understand...

Lauren wrote: "Christy wrote: "Lauren wrote: "I've only read Great Expectations and an abridged version of Oliver Twist, so I don't feel qualified to say! I didn't like GE much.

As for Charlotte Bronte, I lov..."


I can see how you would think their love is baseless. The best parts were left out of the novel. I guess my mind kind of filled in the gaps... We have the first meeting, and then we skip forward several months, we miss how they fell in love. We didn't see the little moments. That is the beauty of Jane Eyre and P and P, we see the process unfold. Though, I was still hooked with Laura and Hartright...I'm just a sucker for love. ;-)

Jane Eyre reminds me of a comment I read recently about Pride and Prejudice, another book in which a strong assertive woman, not physically beautiful (though she's always portrayed by the likes of Jennifer Ehle and Keira Knightey in movies) brings down a strong attractive man because of her wit and because she basically stands up to him, which Laura Fairlie would never dream of doing. The comment was that Mr. Darcy was spoilt, had always been catered to, and Elizabeth B. didn't do that and that's what he found exciting. Likewise with Jane and Mr. R. Whereas as you point out, Laura is beautiful and sweet and basically, alas, spineless. The total fainting Victorian heroine. But Marian is not like that and as I recall, when Fosco (another totally unlikely "romantic' character) the sparks fly, as I recall. * Spoiler ahead:* Particularly since they are not just jousting verbally, but locked in a battle of life and death.

Lauren wrote: "Christy wrote: "Lauren wrote: "I've only read Great Expectations and an abridged version of Oliver Twist, so I don't feel qualified to say! I didn't like GE much.

As for Charlotte Bronte, I lov..."

How far are you into it? I agree with you that Hartright and Laura's love is not on a par of Jane Eyre and Mr. Rochester (what was his first name, I wonder? It's always "Mr Rochester" to the end, as far as I remember??) who were always sparring intellectually, but I maintain that when you get to Marian and Count Fosco (if you can make yourself continue) you will be richly rewarded.

Christy wrote: "Lauren wrote: "I've only read Great Expectations and an abridged version of Oliver Twist, so I don't feel qualified to say! I didn't like GE much.

As for Charlotte Bronte, I love Jane Eyre and ..."

But in Jane Eyre, Rochester and Jane are so well-rounded. Their histories, their minds are real, both good and in some ways flawed. From what I have read of WiW (which, admittedly, is not that much) the characters are so v. flat. Hartright and Miss Fairlie's love is baseless! (IMO)

Lauren wrote: "I've only read Great Expectations and an abridged version of Oliver Twist, so I don't feel qualified to say! I didn't like GE much.

As for Charlotte Bronte, I love Jane Eyre and liked Villette ..."

That's interesting, because as I've been reading Woman in White, I've been reminded a lot of Jane Eyre (which is my favorite book of all time). The storytelling style is different, but many of the other elements seem similar....mysticism, suspense, romance, drama...

That's what I love about books though...to each his own! (And, what I love about being an adult...I don't have to follow a curriculum...I can read what I want, and if I don't like something, I'm not graded on it).

Sandybanks wrote: "Ally wrote: "Christy wrote: "Sandybanks wrote: "I've now read to page 200. This is a pretty fast read for a classic. I don't quite understand why Laura decided to marry Sir Percival --- didn't he g..."

I agree that Marian would not have married him. I think she has a very strong will. I think Marian's sense of family responsibility/loyalty would have been balanced by her sense of self preservation and self dignity. I think Marian can see things more clearly than Laura (whether that is because Marian is a stronger person or because Marian is removed one step from the situation, I don't know...), but I think Laura's sense of loyalty plus her depression about not being able to be with Hartright has blocked her ability to see more than one way to handle the situation.

I've only read Great Expectations and an abridged version of Oliver Twist, so I don't feel qualified to say! I didn't like GE much.

As for Charlotte Bronte, I love Jane Eyre and liked Villette a lot. I don't know how I would label those - Villette is definitely quite gritty, but Jane Eyre is wonderfully romantic.

Tbh, I'm not terribly well read in Victoriana - yet! - and so I couldn't possibly say much on 'realism versus romanticism/sensationalism'. Where do you stand?

Lauren wrote: "Paula, The Woman in White is my first Collins book. I think it will be my last.

Heidi, I'm aware of it being gothic. So far, the genre and I don't have a great track record. I didn't think much ..."

I think that's what it boils down to -- a matter of taste. Certainly Gaskell and Eliot are very different from WiW and WH, although WiW and WH are different from each other, too. I'm curious -- do you like Dickens? Where would you put him on the continuum of realism versus romanticism sensationalism? And what about Charlotte Bronte?

This is what makes this group interesting -- differing points of view.

Paula wrote: "Lauren wrote: "The style in which it's written, the sensationalism, the downright silliness.
..."

Your comment caught my attention, as I fell in love with the book very early on. I really like..."

I must admit, I agree with Paula that, for me the style of the novel is key to my enjoyment the whole text particularly in terms of the multiple perspectives. Although I can see why someone might find it a little hard to cope with when you're so used to the realism that abounds in Victorian Lit.

I feel that at first the narrative style takes on a kind of authority - like a legal document - so that we are very much drawn into the 'truth' of the narrative. Then as the story progresses it becomes quite sensational - thoughts and feelings are expressed that make the narrative more immediate and chilling.

I find the sensation element necessary to the suspense and intrigue within the story. I love the scene near the end where...oops - nearly forgot that I was only in the discusion for Chapters 1-3!!! - I'm going to move the rest of my comment over to the 'finished' thread.

Ally