LOL, Paul, that method works for me!

Just a little note on spoilers -this works for renting movies on dvd too - you read a review but it contains a spoiler yet you want to read/watch it - no problem. You stick it on your to-read/to-view pile, which as you'll have to admit, is ridiculously large. Maybe in two or three years you'll get round to it. If you do, unless you have a frightening memory, you'll have forgotten who recommended it, why it's on your list and everything about plot, spoiled or not.

Epee wrote: "If there was one thing that I could change about Goodreads it would be all the reviews that are really plot summaries and don't have them flagged as 'spoilers'. I like reviews very much. Its quite..."

I've recently started to include a summary at the beginning just because I read a ton of UF and frankly, if I don't have something about the plot of a given book it tends to blur together. However, I also make sure I put a spoiler warning on anything that's more in-depth than what can be found on the back of the book. I feel bad about it sometimes since there are days I'll send out multiple reviews which I knew will just show up as containing spoilers.

But I had to start adding summaries after I read some of my old reviews responding to events in the books and couldn't remember what actually happened in the book.

I also try and say what I liked or didn't like. I don't think I always succeed, but I do try. The exception is for anthologies with comics (Penny Arcade, Get Fuzzy, etc) then I usually have a line about whether it amused me or not but there's not much else to say.

Exactly, that is why we choose our friends on GR, to have a reliable base.

Abigail wrote: "...I myself tend to look to my GR friends' reviews first, and then look at other GR users.

Ditto, Abigail. :-)

Just to clarify, I too agree with the idea that everyone should review as they see fit. Just pointing out that if we're going to go around criticizing the reviewing style of others, there's more than plot-summarizing to worry about. I guess the better question, as raised by all of you, is why worry about it at all? As more than a few of you have pointed out, unhelpful reviews don't have to be read... I myself tend to look to my GR friends' reviews first, and then look at other GR users.

Carolyn wrote: "So, there's a place for everything and everyone in GR."

:D

I agree with Sherri, Lisa, Tricia, Isis - I'm all for people using the review space for what works for them. (Even the 'I LOVED IT' people. =)

I hardly ever write reviews myself, and when I do, it's often just a couple of sentences about what I felt most strongly about the book.

However, on the plus side for the 'summary' reviews - there are many books in the database that come over from Amazon with little to no description in the book description field. There have been plenty of times that I've found that a reviewer's summary of the plot is the only description of what the book is even about. This is especially true on a lot of the older, less well-known books in the database.

So, there's a place for everything and everyone in GR.

What Isis said! Some people write extremely long "reviews," but thankfully, I don't have to read them--all the time. :-) My preference is short and sweet on most books. But on others, I want more detail. I think of a review as if I were talking to someone about a book they might read. Not going to give the plot away if the person might read it, but want to provide enough info that they may decide to read it...or not.

Personally, unless the review is an unmarked major spoiler, or a three word sentence like "I LOVED it!" I don't really care how others chose to format their "reviews." It doesn't bother me if a review is just a summary or just a commentary on the book. Each have their uses and each has the potential to give helpful information to someone wanting to know about the book.

My personal preference is for a combination of the two. Which is what I do in my reviews. I give a short opinion, then usually a two paragraph summary of the book - generally because a lot of back cover blurbs don't tell you much about the book or even at times are misleading so giving a lengthier, more accurate summary can be helpful to those looking into the book - and then I write several paragraphs of commentary on my thoughts.

But to each their own. Goodreads is very open when it comes to rules on things like this because everyone has their own use for Goodreads. Some people use it for social interacting about books, some for strictly personal cataloging and thoughts, and some a combination of the two. The open rules on things like this make it so each person can use Goodreads in a way that works best for them. I like it that way and I think a lot of others do to.

Hear hear.

I'm fine with whatever members want to do with the review field, as long as they mark as a spoiler something that obviously is a spoiler.

I personally don't like a lot of summarizing about a book, but if I think I'll read a book and don't want to read much about it, I'll simply avoid reading the reviews until after I read the book.

This is why choosing friends who write reviews you appreciate and avoiding reading anything if your reading experience has the potential to be spoiled can be an important decision. I find it easy to avoid reviews for particular books if I choose to do that. If I'm trying to figure out whether to read a book but I don't want to know much about it, I check the star ratings, particularly those of readers whose taste I often share, and enjoy the reviews after I've read the book.

Goodreads is designed so that we all can get the experience we enjoy without dictating how other people use the site. Yay for Goodreads!

I personally think that people should be able to write a review however they wish to write it, whether that be spoilers, whole plot review or chapter by chapter review (spoilers or not). To each their own.

What I personally ask is that if it says anything outside the scope of the blurbs that you can read on the back or inside front of the book then to please mark it as spoiler.

And if you are unsure then mark it as spoiler. People will choose to read them anyways as either a reminder of what was in it after they have read it, or to be spoiled. =)

One of the best things about this site is, of course, that we are relatively free to write the review we want to write -- and free to read or not read them. I like the way certain people write their reviews, so I tend to read those reviews. Other folks, not so much, so I just skip them. It's surprisingly easy.

I don't really mind, beyond major spoilers. If someone's post is just a plot summary, that becomes obvious pretty quickly and you can just stop reading it. I do find they can have a value for reminding you about a book, and I agree that someone's selection of what is important to summarise can be interesting and informative - especially when you are looking at reviews for books you've already read.

True, and for me I need to be convinced to read certain types of literature. I depend heavily on many review sources before I will actually heft the tome and open it.

Sometimes I enjoy books that are not particularly well written. Because I like... whatever, books with palm trees and humor - even if they aren't the very best of their type. So if I like it for particularly ideosyncratic reasons, I think its good to say so.

What Bun said.

I was just throwing out theory.

Personally I want to know what the book is about, whether the reviewer enjoyed it and why, and whether the review thinks its well written. I can usually find reviews that tell me those things, and if I find reviews that don't I figure they're directed at somebody else who likes other stuff.

Well, again, I think it's a question of balance. I would certainly agree that an outright recitation of a book's plot, with little else included, does not make for a particularly helpful review. On the other hand, the other extreme, in which the reviewer confines themselves to feelings and reactions alone, seems just as pointless. The person reading your review needs some context for your reaction, I've always thought...
So while I sympathize with those who are frustrated at stumbling across reviews that might as well be publisher blurbs, I would remind them that it is just as aggravating to read the endless "I liked this, it made me feel X" responses, that never give any further details.

I read somewhere recently -- oh that famous somewhere -- that some art critics criticize just because they don't like something. Other critics interact with the art, about how it makes them feel, what emotions it aroused in them. Some art reviews are like actually being in the critics shoes as they look at the art and respond to it.

This makes me wonder, are there then competing theories of what makes a good book review? I could care less about plot summary, that's what the link to the book itself will show me, or a quick look on Novelist, I want why should I bother reading this book, what did it do to you, did it change you or your view of something?

I check Kirkus reviews for almost every book I read. The GoodReads reviews are from friends whom I know have a similar approach to reading, and similar expectations from a book.

Random wrote: "To add, for those who want/need to use the reviews to help them remember details about a book, there is a section called Private Notes which is only viewable by you."

Yup. Sometimes, I don't care if everyone else sees 'em. :D

The main bulk of my review is usually my feelings/thoughts about the book. I do tend to write a short paragraph summarising the book, but only so far as what the blurb says. As someone mentioned earlier, I write reviews for me as well as for other people and I like to be able to recall what a book was about. I don't give away anything that could be considered a spoiler and if I do have to then I mark it as such.

I think that 'reviews' that are only plot summaries are clearly not reviews, however GR doesn't state that this isn't allowed and so people who do this are not technically in the wrong. I do agree with Epee though, that there are many reviews out there that are spoilers but are not marked as such. If I see them I either contact the reviewer or flag them.

To add, for those who want/need to use the reviews to help them remember details about a book, there is a section called Private Notes which is only viewable by you.

Teresa in Ohio wrote: "Kay wrote: "Teresa in Ohio wrote: "I have to disagree here, why should I have to do my REVIEWS in a standard form? Sometimes my reviews is just what the book is about, sometimes I share how I fe..."

For myself, if I'm trying to decide if I want to read a book the last thing I need is a bunch of reviews that are nothing more than summaries (often detailed). This just sucks all the enjoyment out for me.

I've even run across a few books where the description field is nothing more than a very detailed plot summary.

Don't give away the who did it in a who done it. BunWat, did I need a spoiler?

I think that as long as people apply reasonable standards, they'll be fine. A good rule of thumb: if it's something printed on the book cover or dust-jacket, or something that is generally known, it isn't a spoiler. Writing a review of the first Harry Potter book, in which you mention that the main character attends a magical school, would not be a spoiler in my view, even though you don't discover that fact until a few chapters in.
Also, I think readers should be aware themselves, when reading reviews, and take common-sense precautions. For instance, if you're interested in an ongoing series, and don't want anything to be "spoiled," I would avoid reading reviews of subsequent titles. After all, what is considered a spoiler for the first book, would be an understood fact for the second and third.

I went and looked Jason, it looks like you've been reviewing mostly non fiction lately, which often doesn't really depend on plot developments for its interest, so its hard to spoiler. I checked a couple of fiction reviews and I didn't see spoilers there. So I think you're okay.

I am not sure why people don't know what spoils a book. If you are telling about things in the book more then what the back blurb tells us, then you are spoiling the book.

If you are telling about how you enjoyed:
The characters
The plot
The writing style
The writers talent for descriptiveness (or word building)

Then you are not spoiling the book.

If I even hint at a little about what happens in the book, I mark it as a spoiler review, because I do not wish to ruin anyone's future read of that book.

Important discussion, but now there's a shadow over my reviews. I'm very new to this site, and have just discovered the joy of writing reviews. Would someone take a look at the last few I've written and tell me if I need spoiler flags. I want to do this correctly, and you all seem rather experienced. Thanks.

Brooke wrote: As for the main topic, if you're worried about the quality of reviews and you think that non-summary reviews are of higher quality, make sure you vote for the ones you DO like so that they're pushed towards the top and everyone can enjoy them."

That's a good point. I often forget to do that.

Writing a summary is only a spoiler if you give away the ending.

Unless the surprises are in the middle of the book... :)

As for the main topic, if you're worried about the quality of reviews, and you think that non-summary reviews are of higher quality, make sure you vote for the ones you DO like so that they're pushed towards the top and everyone can enjoy them.

Writing reviews is tough enough as it is. Heck, I find it hard to determine between 3 or 4 stars half the time. Each person has to develop their own rating style, and their own review style. I don't care for plot summaries due to literature professors drilling in NO PLOT SUMMARY, but I admit sometimes, a good plot summary will help me decide do I, or do I not want to read the book.

Time and experience.

Kay wrote: "The issue the thread starter complained about is the lack of personal touch: not the way you (or anyone else) choose(s) to write a review but the fact that sometimes there is no review whatsoever other than the plot summary."

The thoughts before and after the colon are not the same idea at all. A summary has a great deal of personal touch to it. The mere act of selecting which events, themes, characters, etc. were the most memorable or important to the story gives a summary personal touch and often contains an inherent review.

Kay wrote: "Teresa in Ohio wrote: "I have to disagree here, why should I have to do my REVIEWS in a standard form? Sometimes my reviews is just what the book is about, sometimes I share how I feel, sometime..."

Well that is his opinion and I have mine, some people just want to write plot summary, what is wrong with that?

Hmm... Just chiming in to say that my reviews often start out with a brief sentence or two on the plot. I find it helpful to state what it is I'm responding to, before responding, if that makes sense. In other words: "Here's a book about... What I like/dislike about this is..." I do try never to give away plot details that would come as a surprise to a reader (ie: spoilers). A little plot summary can actually be very helpful to other readers, especially with more obscure books, where they might be trying to figure out whether or not they're interested in reading it themselves. Although a plot summary alone does feel incomplete...

Teresa in Ohio wrote: "I have to disagree here, why should I have to do my REVIEWS in a standard form? Sometimes my reviews is just what the book is about, sometimes I share how I feel, sometimes I add pet peeves whic..."

The issue the thread starter complained about is the lack of personal touch: not the way you (or anyone else) choose(s) to write a review but the fact that sometimes there is no review whatsoever other than the plot summary. I think we all here agree that everyone is free to personalize their review in any way they see fit, as long as there actually is a review one might learn something from. :)

I have to disagree here, why should I have to do my REVIEWS in a standard form? Sometimes my reviews is just what the book is about, sometimes I share how I feel, sometimes I add pet peeves which lowers my personal rating for them, sometimes they read like a book report sometimes it is just a quick note about the book, WHY SHOULD I have to be the same as everyone else?

My take on this is what is important is the themes, e.g. Norse Mythology, road trip and fantasy elements for American Gods. I like to read and try myself to keep the review inside the initial box Goodreads presents you. Other important aspects I think are whether the book if it is fiction is tending towards being plot or character driven. There are important other elements, but these are the ones I look for and try to write.

Given the frequency of people-not-reading-directions, color me doubtful. ;)

rivka wrote: "I seriously doubt that additional text will make any difference to spoilers."

I think it might, actually. I know there've been a couple of times where I've put in something with spoilers and had to go back in and edit quickly because I'd just forgotten about that flag.

Donna wrote: "I'd never want to imply that someone is using the site wrong just because they've decided to use it in a different way than I do."

*nods vigorously*

I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds some of those summary reviews helpful when I'm trying to decide if I've read a familiar-sounding title before or if I'm refreshing my memory about the plot points of a series.

If a person wants use the review space to help them remember what happened in the books they've read, then I don't think that should be discouraged (as long as they follow the spoiler guidelines). I'd never want to imply that someone is using the site wrong just because they've decided to use it in a different way than I do.

mlady_rebecca wrote: "GoodReads reviews aren't formal reviews that have to follow a pattern or guideline."

Bingo. And as I said before, I seriously doubt that additional text will make any difference to spoilers.

I can't speak for everyone, but I frequently include a partial summary of a book along with my review. What I write about a book, I write for me, not for the community at large. And sometimes I want to recall some detail about the plot.

GoodReads reviews aren't formal reviews that have to follow a pattern or guideline. So, yes, some of us know the difference between summaries and reviews and deliberately choose to include summaries.

Writing a summary is only a spoiler if you give away the ending. If you write only as much as the back cover blurb, you're not giving away anything.

Rivka - by guidelines I only mean that people could be reminded that a review includes what the reader thought about the book (which is what is interesting, at least to me, about a review) and that if they write a summary of the story as their review, to please put up the spoiler flag. I can't see what there is to object to in that.

Epee wrote: "If there was one thing that I could change about Goodreads it would be all the reviews that are really plot summaries and don't have them flagged as 'spoilers'."

You might want to contact those reviewers and ask them to put spoiler flags on. If you can't reach the reviewer, there's a way to flag reviews as needing spoilers to bring them to the attention of the GR team -- click on "add a comment" and it's an option on the page which opens.

Also, some of the older reviews may pre-date the availability of a spoiler flag on GR, although they could always be edited to add one.

I definitely agree with Petra X that it would be great to have a little reminder about the spoiler flag when people are writing reviews. I don't really think much more guidance than that could be given, since there are a lot of different ideas about what constitutes a good review, but spoilers are a pretty important point!

Epee wrote: "If there was one thing that I could change about Goodreads it would be all the reviews that are really plot summaries and don't have them flagged as 'spoilers'."

Feel free to flag them. If Goodreads staff agrees with you, they will get a spoiler warning.


Petra X wrote: "It might be nice to have some sort of guidelines to writing reviews here, if only that those who give the plots and endings away remember to put on the spoilers flag."

I doubt it would help with the spoiler issue, and I am very much against "guidelines".

It might be nice to have some sort of guidelines to writing reviews here, if only that those who give the plots and endings away remember to put on the spoilers flag.

I think that's a good point, Petra. I don't think anyone learns how to write reviews (aka book reports) anymore. I have a daughter who's in her twenties and a son in 8th grade. I can count on one hand the number of written book reports that either one of them has done. I remember writing quite a few book reports in school and we were not allowed to summarize the plot. (Majoring in English Lit reinforced the concept.)