In college, my English class had to watch Cascablanca and write about the key plot points and use of dialogue to present what modern films/stories mimic.

I will NEVER watch Cascablanca in color. I /think/ there was a re-mastered version in color. To me it takes away from the shadowy elements and the soft, elegance when the camera zooms in on Ingrid.

I'm thrilled over and over by the dialogue and cackle madly at parts.

paraphrase
Rick: I came to Cascablanca for the waters.
Renault: What waters?
Rick: I guess I was misinformed.

Renault casually interrogates Rick and Rick evades just as casually. It's a fascinating friendship.

i'm sorry, i meant the book the big sleep for 1939...i knew that the big sleep was made during the war and not released until after the war was over. they made some changes too (like, a year later i think?) and developed lauren bacall's character into a more confident and witty woman.

regardless of when it was made, big sleep is my favorite of all the chandler-infused crime-noir films. it's a film i can watch over and over.

i leave it for next time...

ok...Ingrid is beautiful

Ohh spoilers on that one...I feel sleepy.

ok I am watching the movie now jst cos I felt I had to having written a lot on it earlier. The dialogue is dry...hmmm slightly old boyish (hope no one minds, I couldn't think of any other word that would describe it) and I kinda have a feeling Ricky (I like the way he says everything clearly, good enunciation) is some kinda of a war hero on the other side of the law and everyone is trying to save Victor Laslo.

Who is John Galt?

i like this movie but i watch it whenever i need to fall asleep

Elaine wrote: "Casablanca did not "create classic lines." It was very much a product of the old studio system, with a clear beginning, middle and end, with only two interrelated plot lines. the script by the Eps..."

Wonderful post, Elaine. I worked as a screenwriter (no longer, though, now I'm a literary agent and clothing entrepreneur) and I loved looking through the old 1930s and 1940s scripts.

For me, the true first film noir was "Stranger on the Third Floor," but true, it was not an "A" movie. If we're going with "A" movies, I'd have to go with "Double Indemnity," too.

elaine,

it's easy to start a thread. look at the main page, up by where the general folder is. just a little bit up and to the right you will find three buttons, and one of them says new. click that button and you will find a new thread waiting for your post. when you enter the title of the thread be sure to click on which folder you want to put it in (foreign, action, comedy, etc.)

i'm off to work (haven't quite retired YET) and have to run, so feel free to start a noir thread, a kontrol thread or whatever suits your fancy!

Evan wrote: "Oh no, no, no, no. You guys and your dates. Check IMDB.com please. I know these off the top of my head: The Maltese Falcon is 1941, Double Indemnity is 1944 and The Big Sleep is 1946. And I would b..."
You get to keep your house. You are right, and I am wrong, except I knew Big Sleep was after DI and DI was after MF. I should have the date for DI engraved on my brain since I taught it for years. I detect some brain rot since I retired (but it's worth being retired -- it gives me an excuse to catalog my library which gives me an excuse to do nothing else around the house and is breaking my back. I seem to have 1500 books, not counting the cartons in the attic. I may never get them all catalogued)

Phillip wrote: "big sleep is 1939.

i totally get what you're saying about double indemnity....i watched again a few weeks ago and was really impressed with the "lighting", or lack thereof.

i think a what is noir..."
That was under World Cinema, but Anna took it off because she said it was entered 4 times or somethig like that, and I never got any responses to it. Why don't you make it a new topic on this group and tell me what you thought of it. Also, ho do you start a discussion thread, so I will do one one noir -- or you can

Phillip was probably referring to the novel THE BIG SLEEP, which was published in 1939. Not sure where the 1941 for DI came from -- the novella was published in 1936 as a magazine serial and then in book form in 1943; the movie arrived in 1944. THE MALTESE FALCON book was published in 1930, also in a serialization, and the first movie version came in 1931, but the respected movie version came indeed in 1941. Fun to research that, actually.

Oh no, no, no, no. You guys and your dates. Check IMDB.com please. I know these off the top of my head: The Maltese Falcon is 1941, Double Indemnity is 1944 and The Big Sleep is 1946. And I would bet my house on it.

big sleep is 1939.

i totally get what you're saying about double indemnity....i watched again a few weeks ago and was really impressed with the "lighting", or lack thereof.

i think a what is noir thread would be awesome, because the term has sort become a word like jazz, which means so many different things to different people.

p.s. what thread were we talking about kontrol? i can't find it.

Phillip wrote: "nice post elaine, thanks for your thoughts. thanks in particular for connecting the dots on the historical and political background. well done!

i think of the big sleep as the first (and greatest)..."

Double Indemnity's cinematographer experimented with how dark he could shoot a scene and still have it make sense. It was a first,not only for its darkness, but, so far as I know, in using darkness as metaphor for the inherent evil in all people, even innocent types like Walter. Before then, darkness was used to add horror (as in German Expression), or just to indicate criminal deeds). What was the date of The Big Sleep? DI was in 1941 and, usually, when someone says a noir preceded it, they mention Maltese falcon which is a detective story, a different genre on several counts. Maybe we should start a discussion to see what and why people consider a movie as noir?

nice post elaine, thanks for your thoughts. thanks in particular for connecting the dots on the historical and political background. well done!

i think of the big sleep as the first (and greatest) noir thriller. but i echo your sentiments about the visual tone of double indemnity, which is darker, in general than hawks' film.

Casablanca did not "create classic lines." It was very much a product of the old studio system, with a clear beginning, middle and end, with only two interrelated plot lines. the script by the Epstein twins was witty, as was common in pre-1945 movies, & the obvious sexual affair between Bogie and Bergman was the only flashback. The movie was made because the studios wanted to alert the American public about the evils of Naziism, but Pres. Roosevelt, using Ambassador Kennedy (John's father), warned the Jewish studio heads they were not to make movies about what was happening under Hitler, so Casablanca fostered patriotism (to America, of course), as all movies did in those days, made up some hooey about "letters of transit," which allowed them to introduce the issue of hunted resistance forces who were denied freedom. There is a hint that some of the refugees in Casablanca were Jewish, but none were overtly portrayed that way. As for black and white movies, they can vary in their lightness, darkness, grain, shadows, mist, etc. and all these variations make a difference in the mood portrayed in the picture. Ever see Double Indemnity? If you do, notice how black many scenes are, how little sunshine there is. That is to underscore the evil that even ordinary people have lurking in them (In my opinion, it is the first true noir movie.

Cutiepie I love you too. You sure know how to say it right!!

Maybe a certain Tom and a certain Sherri just love it too much eh? Each to his own. It's so difficult these days to know which is which cos everything could be this or that! :)

Thanks for the love!

I WANT EVERYBODY TO LAY OFF STARPRINCES!

Y do u all tak these movies so serious like the Joker says? After reeding all thes notez I can see that Star PRINZ has the rite idea about this cabaslanca movie, movies are sposed to b FUN!!! and if all you do is argu about them then your missing da POINT!! All yu gayz need to liten up too! How do you no that movies aren't gay anway unless you made the movie witch you dint so theres my point made for you!

STar Prin I LOVE YOU! I know you were born with your wisdome tooth, because I wuz 2!!!!

Iwould prefer if people who just want to jump down my throat didn't read my posts either. And again , this post is for those who would like to talk about why some of us don't particularly like/understand movies like Casablanca, and especially Casablanca. Seems like some people are in the wrong place, and really too sensitive about anything gay. Not everyone is born with their wisdom tooth, maybe all my bashers should stop taking my name in vain, I can't be bothered to even understand what you say about me or about anything for that matter. Maybe it's time you posted elsewhere and idolised Bogart and his meaningful dialogue with Louis, somewhere far away. Big Ha!

i've always thought touch of evil (or the trial) are orson welles' best works (along with macbeth). citizen cane is my least favorite of all those films he made. lady from shaghai is kind of over-rated as well. it's got that amazing ending sequence, but the first hour has a lot of dead air, especially the sequence on the boat...

Camille wrote: "This was a great discussion.
I love Casablanca, but have tried in vain to appreciate "Citizen Kane" another "classic." (And I'm old enough to have context for it and for black and whites!)

It's th..."

I admire CITIZEN KANE, though it's never been my favorite among classic film. I greatly prefer CASABLANCA. I don't know what it is about CITIZEN KANE that just fails to move me or engage me. I've tried to figure it out many times and I really can't. The screenplay is terrific, the acting is great, I should love it. But I don't.

This was a great discussion.
I love Casablanca, but have tried in vain to appreciate "Citizen Kane" another "classic." (And I'm old enough to have context for it and for black and whites!)

It's the old "de gustibus ..."

Tom wrote: "BEWARE -- Below may be SPOILERS if you really have no idea what goes on in the film of CASABLANCA!!!!

I don't think there's really any gay subtext going on in CASABLANCA. Yeah, it does end with..."

Perfect. I think CASABLANCA is awesome! Just love it. I've always said it's a movie with everything.

are you asking if i would like some rhinoceros with that cat?

If we're getting all Ionesco round here: All cats die. Claude Rains is dead. Therefore, Claude Rains is a cat.

a big cat

Claude Rains was a cat.

wow, i turned my back and this discussion became an ionesco play.

If someone is really interested in queer subtext in classic movies, The Celluloid Closet Homosexuality in the Movies (which is also available as a film documentary) is a good starting source.

BEWARE -- Below may be SPOILERS if you really have no idea what goes on in the film of CASABLANCA!!!!

I don't think there's really any gay subtext going on in CASABLANCA. Yeah, it does end with two guys walking off together, but these two guys are pretty completely shown to be extremely straight.

A case might be made, I think, about Claude Rains' Capt. Louis Renault, who might be seen to be over-compensating in being such a total womanizer. He does seem to have a real interest in Bogart's Rick, too. His single comment about how "If I were a woman, and I were looking around, I would love Rick" can't be entirely ignored.

But ultimately I don't think it amounts to enough to really, well, amount to much. This isn't Judith Anderson's Mrs. Danvers in REBECCA, with her ongoing fascination with her late employer's sheer nightgowns. Renault's interest in Rick is more in the way of wanting Rick to set an example for him to follow, of not being so utterly devoted to one's own selfish and cynical interests, which Rick finally does by putting Ilsa on the plane with Victor Lazlo. Rick's selfless act allows Renault to redeem himself from the cynical wallowing he has been indulging in (however enjoyably) and go off to do the serious work of joining the Resistance.

And I'll admit freely that I didn't get CASABLANCA the first time I saw it. A few re-viewings and some good plain growing up later, I recognized it for what it is: a pretty goddamn amazing film. Romance, passion, desire, bloodshed, historic backdrop, brilliant acting, brilliant screenplay, gorgeous cinematography and production, this movie just can't be beat.

I don't think I was preparing for anything... only loved the movie. No war nor Bogart has come my way yet, in any case.

Actually, I've heard the gay subplot in Casablanca mentioned before but I personally can't see it. Guess it's just that people feel the need to say something "new" about a classic that has been analyzed gazillion times. But the magic still remains. Do wach the special edition dvd, it's wonderful. There are all kinds of amazing extra features there, on the other disc. Recommended!

Dear StarPrincess

Your point is valid, not everyone likes this film and some people have yet to discover its merits, but this post is now turning into one of those medieval tasks about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, in other words.....it's pointless.

If you knew anything about film, or better yet, have watched a black and white movie; you would know that homosexuality and other genres did and have existed in cinema in subtile and not so subtile forms.
I.E. Rebecca, Rope, The Children's hour, Johnny Guitar, Red River and many other films Im sure would bore you or go over your head. HA
Have a good life dear.

I've never seen the movie all the way through, I only catch it at the end for some weird reason. I should watch it all the way through once. Maybe it's my childhood dislike of black & white movies??

The discussion is about I don't get Casablanca after all, we are not here to like the movie. And it was an honest question, cos homosexuality was not openly discussed in those days in the movies. So maybe it was implied ...cos there was never a time when homosexuality did not exist, especially if we go by religious views. In all fairness, Casablanca lovers can start a new topic.

Ha!

Nausheen, your postings are so silly that I can't think of where to begin to talk about them. If you want to discuss the possible homosexual implications of certain aspects of CASABLANCA, feel free to do so, but please do so in an intelligent manner. Asking if CASABLANCA is a "gay movie" is ridiculous.

If you'd paid any attention at all to CASABLANCA, a film I sincerely doubt you've ever even bothered to watch from start to finish, you'd realize why Bogart as Rick walks off with Louis. Your comment about Bogart sticking to solving crime is silly and saving damsels in distress is even sillier.

Don't bother replying to this, as I won't be reading your posts any longer. Feel free to extend me that same courtesy.

I think Nausheen was referring to an earlier comment about the end of the film and how Rick and Louis leave the airport together as Rick says.....
"Louis I think this is the start of a beautiful friendship."

No Nausheen, I dont think it implies a gay subplot or context.
Throughout the movie it has been established that both men like the ladies. Most of the previous 90 minutes have been devoted to the relationship between Rick and Ilsa. Logically it doesnt make sense to imply Rick and Louis are gay.
However everything is open to your own interpretation.

If you see the film I hope you enjoy it. If you dont enjoy it, the world will still go on.

Nausheen is clearly a troll.

Nausheen, I'm afraid I find that particular question somewhat offensive. What do you mean, a "gay" movie? The movie has no particular orientation. The relationships depicted are, as far as I can tell, heterosexual, and there are no sex scenes at all.

I do like the movie, but knowing who the characters are isn't a particular stretch nor does it take much effort. I find your questions disingenuous and I don't think I will reply to you further.

huh? Tom? what's gotten into you? I'm me remember, I can't be you at the same time. Really if all Bogart can think of at the end of a romantic movie is to bond with the captain, methinks he should stick to solving crime. Plenty of damsels in distress when you are a private eye!! Tom...?

OK, Nausheen. The jig is up. You're someone posting as a joke, right? Who are you? Alex? Phillip? Daniel M getting some revenge? Are you me?

Eww what a bummer, a Captain no less! Pardon me Sherri, seems like you really love the movie. Was it a gay movie?

Nausheen, Captain Renault -- the captain of the police in Casablanca -- is Louis. That is his first name.

<I will watch it again really soon, I am posting>>

Cissy I got this funny thought in my head while reading your post about your special love for the movie...What were you preparing for? war or Bogart? ") And I think I will hate It's A Wonderful Life too if I watched it.

Manuel, Tom and Sherri...you are all just awesome. Thanks for taking my silly questions on Casablanca lightly. (?) :)Seems like I missed the movie by a mile, wonder what I was doing watching it through if I can't remember who's who and which 's what. So who is Louis?

Oh Manuel, saved by the US constitution, eh?!! <winK>

I've always loved Casablanca, even as a kid. I used to have a Casablanca poster in my room when I was ten years old, and it stayed there till I moved out. Also, a framed picture of Bogart. I was crazy about movies even as a kid and really enjoyed Casablanca even then. So I don't really think it's a question of age or of life experiences... We are all just wired differently. I don't care for all the classics, either... For instance, have always loathed It's a Wonderful Life. EUGH! Sentimental garbage.

Nausheen, you haven't offended my movie sensibilities. But I'd have to say that it is really remarkable for anyone who has seen CASABLANCA to be unable to remember who Ingrid Bergman ends up with and to really not understand what the war might have to do with the film.

I hope no one is getting that impression, Manuel! I know there are several movies that are greatly admired, for which I have no particular liking! Nausheen, please know that my comment was meant to be a joke, not an insult or negative comment!

dont worry about it Nausheen.

Some movies are not for everyone, that is why its fun to come on Goodreads and hear other people's opinion.
It would be so dull, if we came in here and we said we all loved it, loved it, loved it.

As for Arnie.
Our constitution says you have to be born in America to be elected president. So Arnie can legally run for any office or job in this country except president.

Manuel: good work with the script idea, thanks :) I think I know what you mean about Ronald Reagan :). I watched one of his old movies once, where he is a confirmed bachelor or maybe he was a married man and on hard times. I will try to remember the movie. I wonder if Arnie would be ever considered a Presidential candidate??

Sherri: I get it, oh dear me! I will definitely watch it again, maybe I was just not paying attention to the movie. Yes there are computers galore in The Matrix. And yes Casablanca is a classic with a sensitive romance in an exceptionally drastic war situation, in an exotic locale.

I will post again only when I have watched it (since I have the DVD lying around). I'm sorry if I have offended anyone's movie sensibilities.