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Guns! Fun Toys or Harmful Weapons?
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Please could people stop harrassing each other? I really hate it when you guys do that.I guess now we'll just have to harass you.
Jordan's fantasy land where guns are not allowed is cute, and very indicative with the level of morality she is at.(Kohlburg) I would guess idealism. Obviously as others have pointed out, if it was this simple, I think we would have done this awhile ago.
Unfortunately, I still haven't really seen a good answer to my other questions; Warehouses that will sell anybody (illegal alien or US citizen) any number of weapons. Said weapons can be trotted across the Mexico border and used by drug cartels.
Should anything be done about this?
But this doesn't really feel like a debate...and I feel that you two three aren't liking my presence very much. But theories are one thing, and personalities are another.Just because you say dumb shit, don't get upset with us for calling you out on it.
I think you should go to talk to a veteran about what a soul-enriching experience killing people is.Already have, and do it all that time. I have friends who are veterans, and we talk about it every once in a while.
But this doesn't really feel like a debate...and I feel that you two three aren't liking my presence very much. But theories are one thing, and personalities are another.
~Sessy
I believe it would be easy to take out those gangs... It just takes strategy.So the reason that we haven't yet eliminated all gangs, paramilitary groups, etc. is that, what, we haven't used strategy? We haven't tried? If we suddenly declared that we were going to remove all guns from the world, then somehow we'd find a way to do it? Can you describe for me, please, this amazing strategy? Or are you counting on someone else to do that part?
Guerilla tactics is an ambushing technique
Yeah, I know what the word "guerrilla" means. (And how to spell it.) I didn't ask if you knew what it meant, I asked how you were going to get guns from guerrillas. Is this how you're going to do it? Simply knowing what the word means will make their guns disappear?
On the soul matter, for both Dan and Nathan, I'll have to ask what education the both of you have before I can answer it.
I have two college degrees. If - when explaining to me how killing "enriches the soul" despite the fact that it has never been proven that the soul exists, let alone requires enrichment - you use big words I don't understand, I'll look them up in the dictionary.
You think that there is nothing stimulating about killing another human being? Oh I have to laugh at that. You feel power. That's it. You feel strong, overflowing with adrenaline. Just like in any other hunt. Only this time your prey can scream and yelp. You think hunting an animal is any different from hunting humans? Its exactly the same, if not better.
I think you have no idea what you're talking about. I think you should go to talk to a veteran about what a soul-enriching experience killing people is. And yes, I think that hunting an animal is different from killing a human. The degree of empathy we have for others is usually directly related to their degree of relation to us. So in the hierarchy of empathy, it goes close relative > distant relative > unrelated human > other primate species > other mammal species > other vertebrate species > invertebrate species > plant.
Nathan wrote: "Well, I tried rgb, but the damn squirrel could only play Mary Had a Little Lamb. Stupid squirrel, no one wants to hear that song."
Well damn. And with his teeth! I mean, I've gotten a squirrel to pick out the Star Spangled Banner on a little teensy banjo, and you can see a squirrel water skiing in Anchor Man, but getting them to play with their teeth on an electric guitar, that's hard.
I guess you're right then. It will never happen.
rgb
Well, I tried rgb, but the damn squirrel could only play Mary Had a Little Lamb. Stupid squirrel, no one wants to hear that song.
No, not anything can happen. A squirrel will never sing The Star Spangled Banner while playing the electric guitar with his teeth. That will never happen. It isn't true that anything is possible.A challenge! A u-tube video! Fame!
rgb
But I WILL NOT talk to another human being that way.I don't want to be like you.Good for you ignorant moron dipshit.
The real reason you can't say anything back is because you realize what you said before was ridiculously stupid.
Well. I can't say much at all, can I? I just get trashed. Or called names. I actually feel ashamed for being a human and an American on top of that. You call me ignorant, that's fine; you call me a moron, that's fine; a 'little dipshit', even that's fine. Because I will take it all and walk away with it in my brain and remember. But I WILL NOT talk to another human being that way. And this is not something that I'd normally do. I usually kick and swear, but it doesn't matter. I don't want to be like you.Good day.
~Sessy
Oh and thank you for calling me stupid, I'll add that to my collection of compliments.At what point did I call you stupid? I said you sounded dumb and your idea was stupid. At no point did I call you stupid.
And can you explain how I sound immature and DUMB? That makes no sense to me.
I am not surprised in the least. You are proposing an impossibility. Not only is it impossible, but even if it were possible, it would be a bad thing. Yet, you want it to happen.
Plus, anything can happen can it not?
No, not anything can happen. A squirrel will never sing The Star Spangled Banner while playing the electric guitar with his teeth. That will never happen. It isn't true that anything is possible.
What if they got to you before you got to the guns?
Now I am calling you stupid.
Your rationale is that I shouldn't own a gun because if someone was trying to kill me or hurt me, I might not be able to access the gun? Well, let's see, my chances of accessing the gun which might save my life tend to increase when I actually have a gun that I can potentially access. Hmmm....me thinks you make no sense.
Guns aren't as mighty as you make them seem.
This makes absolutely no sense in the analogy I proposed.
On the soul matter, for both Dan and Nathan, I'll have to ask what education the both of you have before I can answer it.
Much more than you.
I have my Master's.
You think hunting an animal is any different from hunting humans? Its exactly the same, if not better.
You clearly know nothing about the topic. Have you killed a human? The people who find killing humans stimulating are called psychopaths. Normal humans wish to avoid it at all costs. Humans who have had to kill others in the line of duty (police, military personnel, etc.) often experience depression, suicidal thoughts, regret, anger, etc. They do this despite the fact that they were justified in their actions.
You are clearly an ignorant little dipshit who should probably stop making herself look ignorant and idiotic.
or the same thing that an arrow can do just with a little less physics
Less physics? Ha ha. Moron.
"As you stated at least. Or if they new how to FIGHT without guns, and trained properly, your gun wouldn't affect them. Possible strategy:Wait until your clip is empty
Charge in and then beat the **** out of you"
Flaw, is that the clip has at least 6 shots. They will not all miss.
"On the soul matter, for both Dan and Nathan, I'll have to ask what education the both of you have before I can answer it."
So, if they are educated individuals, then you know there is no hope of convincing them that a "soul" exists and any won't try?
-dies of laughter-Nathan, just for the record I've only watched Kill Bill once and don't even own the movies, and yes I agree that they are movies. And nothing in movies ever is real, correct? Oh and thank you for calling me stupid, I'll add that to my collection of compliments. And can you explain how I sound immature and DUMB? That makes no sense to me. Plus, anything can happen can it not?
So for that scene with the gang busting into your room. What if they got to you before you got to the guns? Gangs can sneak too. And they only have what? Pipes? Bats? As you stated at least. Or if they new how to FIGHT without guns, and trained properly, your gun wouldn't affect them. Possible strategy:
Wait until your clip is empty
Charge in and then beat the **** out of you
OR
Retreat
Set your house on fire...
Pick which ever you choose.
Guns aren't as mighty as you make them seem.
Dan. I believe it would be easy to take out those gangs... It just takes strategy. Yes, I already know that police are fighting against gangs.
Guerilla tactics is an ambushing technique, "a member of a band of irregular soldiers that uses guerrilla warfare, harassing the enemy by surprise raids, sabotaging communication and supply lines, etc." (Dictionary.com)
On the soul matter, for both Dan and Nathan, I'll have to ask what education the both of you have before I can answer it.
You think that there is nothing stimulating about killing another human being? Oh I have to laugh at that. You feel power. That's it. You feel strong, overflowing with adrenaline. Just like in any other hunt. Only this time your prey can scream and yelp. You think hunting an animal is any different from hunting humans? Its exactly the same, if not better.
rgb. Yes, I know that what I'm requesting is more brutal, but it will just show the blood we truly spill everyday. All a bullet does is kill the enemy from a farther distance, or the same thing that an arrow can do just with a little less physics, and keeps the blood in the corpse better than if you massacred it. There is nothing special about that really.
Oh...and Martial Arts. Does that make you feel any better? I hope that tickles your insides.
~Sessy
Brien- that makes you a responsible gun owner!Did you guys hear about the girl on the school bus that pulled out a handgun and got tackled by a football player?
Obviously her dad didn't hide their guns well enough. Brien, you are being responsible with your guns by keeping them locked up safe. But do you have kids? Have you shown them how to load and shoot your guns? At what point is a child ready for the responsibility of a gun, even to shoot a target with dad? And is it possible that kids are just not emotionally ready for such a powerful toy? I mean it happens all the time, where a kid/teen brings a gun to school, So not all gun owners make it impossible to find and unlock dad's toy to get back at the bully at school.
I am a liberal Democrat business owner, which makes me a bit of an enigma.
I also have a WHOLE BUNCH of guns. I like them. They're fun to have and fun to shoot. I don't hunt--I would never intentionally hurt an animal. I keep them locked and out of reach of any Kid that might come over. So, what does that make me?
There's nothing cool, nothing intellectually stimulating or spiritually enriching about killing another human being, regardless of the method, unless you're killing people by solving crossword puzzles.Ah, so! That's what I'm doing when I work on my book of puzzles. Engaged in dark evil! Murder! Violence and cruelty. "Give me a seven letter word for military, starting with m and ending in l." Um, I know -- M-A-R-T-I-A-L. Not MARSHAL. If you're going to practice the art of Mars, learn to spell it!
Oops, I hope I didn't just slay Sessy...;-)
rgb
Jordyn wrote: "rgb wrote: "I personally wouldn't go hunting for a wolf unless the particular wolf in question were for some reason dangerous and/or outside of its legitimate.."
Well, supposedly insects are grea..."
But you are aware that wanting to revert to medieval police tactics and style is a) romanticizing a historically brutal era -- arguably more brutal by far than the modern one -- just as much as you would be if you argued that we'd be better off without electricity, living an agrarian life; and b) never going to happen, because gunpowder is made with charcoal, sulphur, and saltpeter (all readily available), because steel tubes thick enough to resist the explosion are easily formed, because a piece of flint and steel are enough to explode the powder, and because one can shoot rocks, nails, marbles or of course cast lead bullets -- and even the most primitive of homemade guns gives you a fatal, permanent advantage over "ninjas" or police armed with swords or their awesome martial arts skills.
You do know that if Jackie Chan went up against a real live bad guy armed with a saturday night special who had any skill at all at shooting, Jackie Chan would be dead two minutes later. Real humans cannot dodge bullets a la "The Matrix", no matter how you fantasize that they can.
You cannot put the genie of knowledge back into the bottle. Nor is it truly desireable to do so. All you can do is live with it.
rgb
You're romanticizing certain fighting styles because you think they're cool.Jordyn is clearly someone who has watched Kill Bill far too many times. She also apparently doesn't realize the Kill Bill movies are....MOVIES.
But I am serious for police and all warfare being taken back to the era before guns. Dead serious.Okay, fine. You call the Bloods and the Crips and the Latin Kings and all the other gangs, and the Mexican drug cartels, and the entire roster of NRA members, and all hunters, and wildlife rangers who carry shotguns for protection, and all the guerrilla groups in the Middle East, and get them to destroy their guns; when that's done, I'll, um, refrain from buying a gun, and I'll convince Nate to get rid of his two.
The path I'm suggesting is wiser and healthier for mind and soul.
What is this supposed to mean? First of all, if you're going to claim that something is "healthier for the soul," you'll have to first prove that the soul exists (good luck), and then prove that the soul is capable of varying degrees of fitness, and then devise a scheme for measuring the soul's health. But are you seriously suggesting that it's healthier for the mind and soul to cut someone's head off with a battle axe than it is to shoot him in the chest? This is ridiculous. You're romanticizing certain fighting styles because you think they're cool. There's nothing cool, nothing intellectually stimulating or spiritually enriching about killing another human being, regardless of the method, unless you're killing people by solving crossword puzzles.
But I am serious for police and all warfare being taken back to the era before guns.This is so ridiculously stupid. How would anyone benefit from this? It is complete idiocy. Not to mention the fact that no one would ever be able to convince his enemies to drop their weapons and engage in less technologically advanced warfare.
The path I'm suggesting is wiser and healthier for mind and soul.
So it is easier on a soldier's mind when he runs a man through with his saber at close range so he can look into his eyes than it is shooting him from a long distance away?
Do you even realize how immature and dumb you sound?
What if those handguns were in the wrong hands?
They aren't. They are in mine.
What if a gang of violent men came to my house with pipes and bats, broke in and were breaking down the door to my bedroom? Hmmm....I think I would want my guns. And despite your ridiculous view on the magic of martial arts, all the karate in the world probably wouldn't help me against them. But my Glock sure would.
But we never know who the 'wrong' people are, do we?
What if your precious martial arts were taught to the wrong people? People who would abuse their abilities.
Nathan wrote: "No it doesn't. I own two handguns. I am not evil, nor have they "triggered my evilness." Some people are good, some people are bad. Whether they have guns has no..."But it does influence some people. What if those handguns were in the wrong hands? But we never know who the 'wrong' people are, do we?
~Sessy
rgb wrote: "I personally wouldn't go hunting for a wolf unless the particular wolf in question were for some reason dangerous and/or outside of its legitimate.."
Well, supposedly insects are great source of protein, but I agree that you'll never find me eating them.
But I am serious for police and all warfare being taken back to the era before guns. Dead serious. I'm far from claiming being peaceful. I don't want peace, because as long as the world exists, so will good and evil, peace and war. I just think the world - not just America - should change fighting style, although I know that Iraq isn't just going to drop their guns and submit to the old ways. The path I'm suggesting is wiser and healthier for mind and soul. This would lower death rates be percentages and if you train in marshal arts, you'll have it for ever.
~Sessy
Liz wrote: "It triggers people's evilness. "No more than any other weapon. It's not the gun, but rather the person holding the gun, that is the danger.
I live in Oklahoma. I grew up around guns. They are a tool and a weapon. My best friend has used guns to kill the coyotes in the area that have tried to attack and kill the animals on his father's farm. There's nothing evil about my best friend (well, some of his ex-boyfriends might disagree, but that's neither here nor there).
Dan wrote: "Take it from me, booze triggers Nate's evilness. Not guns."And how exactly would you know that? X)
It triggers people's evilness.No it doesn't. I own two handguns. I am not evil, nor have they "triggered my evilness." Some people are good, some people are bad. Whether they have guns has nothing to do with influencing them to be bad.
Bear in mind that murders involving rifles and shotguns are comparatively rare. The problem is handguns. It's a bit difficult to carry a rifle or shotgun into school stuffed down the front of your pants -- it makes it so difficult to walk. One can carry rifles or shotguns in your car or pickup truck, but only a crazy person would carry them there loaded, and nowadays you'd be asking for somebody to smash your windshield and steal it if you left it there, in most states or cities. Rifles aren't so easy to just point at somebody and start shooting. Shotguns are easier (and at close range, more likely to kill) but still way more difficult than a handgun to carry, conceal, or bring into play.This is reflected in the murder statistics. Roughly 8 times as many people are killed with handguns than with rifles and shotguns combined, every year, with slightly over half of the difference (say, 4/7) being shotguns and 3/7 rifles. So of 100 people killed, around 88 of them would be handgun victims, 5 of them would be rifle victims, and 7 shotgun victims. Lose the handguns (or make them very difficult and expensive and risky to carry) and you'd drop gun-based murder rates to maybe 20% of what they are now. This wouldn't fix the murder problem. Guns are only involved in roughly 60% of all murders (so handguns are involved in roughly 1/2 of them) but it would make non gun murders more common than murders committed with guns. I'm sure we can all agree that it is better to be stabbed, burned, beaten to death, poisoned, clubbed like a baby seal, run over with a car, strangled, slashed, drowned, or pushed out of window than it is to be shot with a handgun.
On a second thought, maybe we could all just work on that aspect of our self and our society that makes murder by any means as common as it is right now. You know what I mean. The deadly hormone -- testosterone.
rgb
Nicole wrote: "What do you think about warehouses that have no restrictions on how many weapons you can buy at one time? Should we regulate this?Should people be allowed to carry guns across state borders? I th..."
Gosh, I think we should start arming toddlers with little mini-derringers starting around age three, that carrying at least one gun, one knife and one optional weapon of your choice should be mandatory in the public schools (although students should be aware that only teachers get to carty shotguns loaded with double-aught buckshot and that setting off grenades in classrooms is not a very good idea). Adults should be legally mandated to carry an assault rifle, a handgun of .38 calibre or larger, a military grade field knife, and enough ammunition for the above to be able to stand off at least a platoon.
To provide this, of course we'll have to have warehouse-sized weapons stores. Wal Mart, but for guns, knives, and medium scale artillery, you know, "personal" size stuff like mortars, RPGs, recoilless rifles.
You laugh (I hope:-) but bear in mind that this accurately describes Switzerland and Israel, at least. Everybody goes through mandatory military service in both countries. In Switzerland, IIRC, everybody keeps their military weapon when they are discharged. Everybody in therefore armed, and nobody but nobody invades Switzerland. Hitler in WWII didn't invade Switzerland -- because he would have had his ass kicked if he'd tried. Guns are quite prevalent in Canada, too -- people just don't use them to shoot other people quite as much.
As for state borders -- of course they should be permitted to carry guns across state borders. How else can I go up to my brother's 140 acre farm outside of Lexington, VA, and hunt? How can people from Rhode Island hunt at all?
Or are you referring to hand guns (which are useless for hunting)? I think we could solve many problems with street violence by simply taxing the hell out of handguns. Taxation is perfectly constitutional. Maybe a $100 federal sales tax on any transfer of ownership (including giving) of handguns, with up to a $10,000 penalty and year in jail if you are found in possession of a gun you didn't pay the original tax (registered by serial number) on.
Retroactive, so all handgun owners can pony up their initial $100 and register their guns by number.
The government can use the money to help pay for all of the consequences of the crimes committed with handguns (and to build all of the new prisons they'd need for people found in violation of the law).
rgb
RGB, in your last statement, you exercise the idea that hunting is to produce food mainly and fun at the same time correct? Well, what about the wolf tags? Are you going to kill a wolf to EAT it? I don't think so. They are going to turn it into merchandising just like Ivory from elephants and rhino horns and gorilla hands. They are going out to shoot wolves to hand on their walls. I haven't heard one person mention that they love the taste of wolf or that anyone is going to eat them. So there is a large problem here. They can hunt deer, elk, moose. I've seen and know people eat that. I have yet to watch anyone eat, or claim to eat, wolf. So please explain your reasoning to me.I personally wouldn't go hunting for a wolf unless the particular wolf in question were for some reason dangerous and/or outside of its legitimate realm where it is supposed to be dangerous, and the same holds for e.g. lions and tigers and bears and rhinos. Although people do eat bear meat -- I'm guessing it is an acquired taste.
Speaking only personally, the only kind of hunting or fishing that I care for is for food, and we have a strict rule in my household that if you kill it, you clean it and eat it, with obvious exceptions for mice, roaches, ants etc. Never acquired a taste for housefly, either.
As for banning guns and making the police know and use bows and martial arts instead -- I assume that you're joking. If you're not, you should be. Why not just say that everybody should be peaceful and love one another so that violence of any sort is no longer necessary in the world? We can then all go "yeah", sigh, and continue living in the REAL world instead of a fantasy world...;-)
rgb
The sight of a gun does not evoke evil in humanity. It's simply another expression of what a human is already perfectly capable of doing by other means. That doesn't mean they are harmless, but the machine itself isn't evil.
What do you think about warehouses that have no restrictions on how many weapons you can buy at one time? Should we regulate this?Should people be allowed to carry guns across state borders? I think there was a bill in congress about this?
Ninjas are definitely cool!
"I think guns should be taken away from everyone, including Military and Police. " This would not work.
1) If it wasn't lawful for the police to have guns, then the police wouldn't have guns. This wouldn't just magically make all guns disappear. The criminals will always have guns.
2) Gun manufacturers will continue to make their product. Even if we outlawed guns in the US, they would just move to Mexico and ship the guns back in or have people go to Mexico for firearms.
I kind of like the idea of an army of ninjas. Ninjas are cool. They'll come in handy if we have to fight another nation whose army is made up of werewolves.
AHAHAHA. You think we'd be better off if NOBODY had guns? Right. Let's just go into another war without guns. See how that goes.
I think guns should be taken away from everyone, including Military and Police.What a ridiculously immature and idiotic statement.
Well, we could bring the artform of ninjas back, but now everyone here would think I'm crazy.
This is fucking ridiculous. I seriously hope you are joking.
Archery uses skill, strategy, and physics.
So do guns.
Are you going to kill a wolf to EAT it?
What the fuck does killing a wolf have to do with killing a deer and eating it? Your statement is asinine and irrelevant. What did rgb say about hunting wolves? Nothing. So why did you bring it up? I know, because you're stupid.
Jordyn wrote: "Well, I just don't like guns period. I'm an archer, so hand me a bow and some arrows and I be fine.
I think guns should be taken away from everyone, including Military and Police. If they learn ka..."
Are you crazy?
"I think guns should be taken away from everyone, including Military and Police. If they learn karate and marshal arts, then they have a better chance of fighting, they would be more fit and would potentially lower the obesity rate in America(hopefully) and then police would be less likely to accidentally kill someone. And you may question how we would defend ourselves? Well, we could bring the artform of ninjas back, but now everyone here would think I'm crazy."Hand to hand combat only works in very close quarters. To catch someone from a distance, it wouldn't help at all.
Well, I just don't like guns period. I'm an archer, so hand me a bow and some arrows and I be fine.I think guns should be taken away from everyone, including Military and Police. If they learn karate and marshal arts, then they have a better chance of fighting, they would be more fit and would potentially lower the obesity rate in America(hopefully) and then police would be less likely to accidentally kill someone. And you may question how we would defend ourselves? Well, we could bring the artform of ninjas back, but now everyone here would think I'm crazy.
Archery uses skill, strategy, and physics. With the knowledge today and some practice it wouldn't be hard. Everyone is getting lazy because, although knowledge is power and we can't live without technology, everyone is having robots do their work and is not emailing and what not. I only watch TV once a week at most. There are weeks that I go without TV and not even realize it. But I'm getting off topic.
RGB, in your last statement, you exercise the idea that hunting is to produce food mainly and fun at the same time correct? Well, what about the wolf tags? Are you going to kill a wolf to EAT it? I don't think so. They are going to turn it into merchandising just like Ivory from elephants and rhino horns and gorilla hands. They are going out to shoot wolves to hand on their walls. I haven't heard one person mention that they love the taste of wolf or that anyone is going to eat them. So there is a large problem here. They can hunt deer, elk, moose. I've seen and know people eat that. I have yet to watch anyone eat, or claim to eat, wolf. So please explain your reasoning to me.
~Sessy
I like Nathan's reply. Although they become less fun when you blow your thumb off with a shotgun, something I accomplished having fun at age ten. Blown off thumbs are not, I repeat not, fun.So maybe potentially harmful, often fun, toys, for most of their domestic usage, depending on whether you consider hunting a weapon usage or just having fun. Relatively little gun use is as a weapon against other humans, and that is confined almost exclusively to criminal use of handguns or the military/police usage. I don't think criminals use rifles or full size shotguns very much.
So obviously, the correct answer is both, and one can throw in useful tools as well in the sense that hunting is more of a tool use to procure food than weapon or toy (even though hunters may enjoy hunting and they definitely use guns to kill game).
rgb
