Abigail,

You and the other mods have always been clear. You have nothing to apologize for at all. In fact, thank you for taking care of the situation and for informing group members.

I do enjoy lurking in this group and hope to participate more at some point. It's a terrific group.

Thanks, Miriam and Emily, I really appreciate those words of support! I've never confronted a situation like this before, but I suppose it was bound to happen eventually. I'm glad that you both find this a friendly space.

I know that must have been difficult, Abigail, but know that most (if not all) of us support your decisions as moderator. I second Miriam -- you do a great job keeping this group friendly and lively! This group is one of my favorite things about Goodreads -- keep up the great work :)

Rather than feeling regretful, Abigail, you should feel happy that it has never been necessary before! You and most of the members do a great job keeping the group friendly, courteous, lively, and on topic.

Hi Everyone. It is with true regret that I announce that for the first time in the history of our Children's Books group, a user has been blocked from membership. Please be aware that this step was not taken lightly. Please also be aware that the moderators mean what they say: continuous author promotion and posting in inappropriate threads will result in ejection from the group. I'm sorry that this has become necessary.

That's great information Miriam! Thanks for your feedback!

Abigail and Chandra, I think you are doing a great job moderating. The guidelines are clear (once one has read them!) and you are enforcing them fairly. Goodreads offers plenty of forums for discussions of every type and for authors to promote their works.

For authors who don't have time or interest to create a discussion group for their books, instead of joining groups and posting in them, I recommend putting a copy or two on the "giveaways" page (you can find it under the "explore" dropdown menu by selecting "books"); that page is for any variety of book and is looked over by over a thousand people. Giving away the book can also help you get more reviews.

Thanks Michele! It's reassuring to know that our restrictions don't appear unreasonable to all authors! As I mentioned above, the vast majority of authors here in the group are valued members and participants!

As a Goodreads author, I wholeheartedly support Chandra and Abigail in their efforts to create a group where readers can discuss children's books without the intrusion of author "advertising." There are plenty of groups out there where authors are invited to share their news, books, reviews, websites, woes and joys. It is important that Goodreads authors understand the function and purpose of each group and conduct themselves appropriately and respectfully. Thank you, Chandra, Abigail, and Sarafem, for providing an opportunity for readers to dialogue about the delightful world of children's literature.

You're welcome. = )
I find it interesting that he didn't have anything to actually respond to my comments and his patronizing tone when he responded to yours reflects poorly on him.
As far as I'm concerned, someone who writes such garbled posts is unimpressive; that they are an author means I certainly won't be reading their book (or exposing my kids to it.)

I love you all. It is now clear what your rules and regulations are. That is good. What we have done here is to make sure every one knows the rules. It will be better for the site. I made you think. Answer people with real answers. We are all on the soap box. My work is done here. Best wishes always and some day we will meet again on the avenue.
Michael John McCann
Mayor of PurpleUmpkin

Michael John - I'm sorry if my post seemed aimed at you. I can see with the timing of it all how it seemed that way. But in all honesty I was referring to the general trend and not you in particular. This has been an issue long before your arrival. And Abigail in particular has worked very hard to create a fair and balanced solution. My post was meant to show support and confirmation of her hard work. It was also meant as constructive feedback for authors who are earnest in their desire to market books. As others have said repeatedly if you demonstrate yourself to be a thoughtful reader and member of the community people are much more likely to take your work seriously. It's just the truth and I don't know any other way to put it.

The long and short of it is that we've made the policies clear and we will be enforcing them from here on out.

Thanks to everyone who has weighed in on this!

Thanks for that link, Lisa! And thank you, Carolyn, for joining the discussion. I'm pretty sure that you aren't alone on that soap box! ;)

Michael John and other authors, You might find it helpful to review the Goodreads author guidelines and other material provided at the GR author program:

http://www.goodreads.com/author/guidelin...

Edit: Especially note the last section named joining groups.

Michael John wrote: "You are are missing the point..."

No, Michael John, I think it is you who are missing the point! You seem to be under the impression that you are being hounded for that "one mistake" you keep mentioning, even though no one actually brought it into the conversation until you did, and even though I explicitly assured you in post #18 that no one was going to get into trouble for a good-faith error.

As for Chandra's conduct, I am astonished that you continue to try to paint it in a negative light. It's clear that she mentions hating to seem combative as a means of softening the criticism to follow. You may or may not agree with the criticism, although I assure you that it represents the perceptions of many goodreads users, but I am simply at a loss to understand how you have reframed this discussion as a commentary on our youth and behavior!

In point of fact, there are many, many groups here at goodreads who vigilantly police for any author promotion, and summarily delete it, while blocking the user. Here in the Children's Books group we try to hold to the middle ground: offering authors a place to promote their books, but setting guidelines in place. The fact that you are more interested in arguing with the legitimacy of those guidelines, than in simply setting up a thread in the appropriate folder, speaks for itself.

Get off your soap/box.

Michael John, I'm finding your post to be very confusing (or confused, I'm having a hard time telling which.)
"We have had a discussion where we did not have one. It actually was other than a book."
What on earth does that mean???
I have to say, the quality of the writing in your posts is in direct opposition to the marketing you are trying to do for your books on GR.

You said in an earlier post: "This site is for small authors that are trying to grow and be known in a tough, tough industry."
This site is definitely NOT an author promotional tool - that is what your personal and publisher's websites are for.
GoodReads is for READERS
Authors who realize this and participate as READERS find that they have much better response from other readers (and consequently better sales) than authors who mistakenly think that this site is just another way for them to advertise.
/soapbox

You are are missing the point. Do not ask for a poster of any kind. People are telling you what books they like. They are promoting that book. How does an author get involved and then say my book may fit that subject without promotion. It is a fine line. I said I made a mistake. Chandra answer was combative and unprofessional. She said some thing close to that herself. I really think you need to exclude author's from this thread. Not that they can not talk, but it is tough call all the way. There is a difference. I will leave this now. I think you both are probably very young. That is good. You have the power. Do you have the knowledge? Keep an open mind and learn. Best wishes to you always. I really mean that. Michael John McCann

I'm not sure that I see, Michael John, just how the ideals of freedom of speech and expression enter into this. Book-promotion is a form of advertising, and even in a country with protections such as the Bill of Rights, advertising is almost always a controlled form of expression. An analogy that might be helpful: your right to freedom of expression means that you are entitled to create any sort of poster you choose. It does not entitle you, however, to hang that poster wherever you choose.

Chandra and I have laid out those restrictions we think are reasonable for the smooth running of the group, and the maintenance of a space for discussion, rather than promotion. We may not be saying just what you want to hear, but I do not think that anyone has been combative or unprofessional, least of all Chandra.

See this is good. We have had a discussion where we did not have one. It actually was other than a book. Remember this country was founded on free speech and the right to write. I have read many of the discussion on children books. Just like we have new children, we need to have new books for them to read. New ones to go with the old ones. I do see a problem here though. If my good friend who is an expert in Childhood Development, writes in liking my book, it will be accepted. Or will it? If she talks about a subject and then says there is a new book about that. Will it be accepted? I wrote an article making sure that the readers knew I made one mistake. What came back was combative, and very unprofessional. I do not mean to single you out Chandra. Best wishes to everyone and you to Chandra. It really hope you are well.

First, as I tried to make plain in post #7, we try very hard to create an environment in which ALL are welcome - readers, writers, parents, and scholars. This is a group for discussion of children's books - an incredibly broad subject area, encompassing any number of topics and genres.

It is not, and has never been, a group intended primarily to connect readers to new authors, or to offer those authors - self-published or otherwise - a venue for promotion. I'll repeat that: this is not a group that was begun with the intention of helping authors. This is a group intended for readers: in this case, the readers of children's books.

That does not mean that authors are unwelcome, or that we - the readers - are not interested in their work. But what it does mean is that the focus of this group (and, I believe, of goodreads in general) is reader-centric, NOT author-centric. The good news for authors is that this provides a place to connect with readers (a group to which they no doubt belong themselves), and get an idea of what interests them.

If they are genuinely interested in participating in the community, and an appropriate opportunity for tooting their own horn arises in the course of discussion, then nothing could be more natural than seizing it! If, however, they are determined to insert self-promotional remarks into discussions where they have no place, and it becomes quite clear that they are not really interested in the discussion, then they should not be surprised or indignant at being shut down.

Michael John: I am sorry that you feel you are being singled out, because that is certainly not my intention. I posted the above in order to address a trend which had been pointed out to me, not an individual case. I know that any newcomer - and not just authors - can bungle a bit when first joining a group, and I'm not unreasonable. No one is going to be banned for a good-faith mistake. Read through the Announcements thread for an example of non-authors being "shepherded," and I'm sure you'll see that it's not just authors who need to respect the rules.

Martyn: thank you, as always, for your comments. I agree that there is a time and place for author-promotion. As Lisa observes, sometimes being too eager can have the opposite effect of the one desired!

Chandra, Thanks for reiterating the guidelines. I appreciate the moderators' commitment to keeping this group a pleasant and fascinating places to have discussions about children's books. Thank you!

I hate to seem combative or unwelcoming, but the simple truth is that when your only participation on the website is self promotion it looks like spam plain and simple. I really can't view it any other way. And from now on in this group that's the way it will be treated. We are absolutely not shunning authors or asking them not to discuss their own books. Quite the contrary - We're just asking that you be thoughtful members of the community. Random self promotional postings will be deleted. And members who don't respect the guidelines in place will be blocked.

I am guilty. I put my book on this site by accident. I thought the readers would want the best book. A new classic. I did not know at the time it was a no-no. I have not done it again and I am very respectful of this site. I always will be. The problem I do have though, some one does pick a book and promote it through discussion. It may be a book they remember through child hood. It may be a book that got 10 million dollars in advertising back then. The book is being promoted through discussion. This site is for small authors that are trying to grow and be known in a tough, tough industry. The reason some books are being discussed is because they were promoted back then. This is a site for readers to talk about what they liked, and may like for their children. How many readers have bought a new book from or through the author? You may actually talk to the author. How many people got to talk to one back then? What is wrong with talking about the book you have chosen, then bring up one better.

Martyn, Well, that's true about authors and time to read. Ditto for many students. But most authors write because they've enjoyed reading and they can always enter old favorites, some books from childhood, etc. Having 0 books and many friends often isn't as effective at this site, although I've seen that configuration work for some authors. Whatever works for each member is fine, but spamming groups and not participating otherwise doesn't win many readers. I agree about the giveaway program: I love it, although I like to think authors can gain new readers without participating in that way, or at least not having to give away a great number of books, but thanks for contributing so many books.

Sorry, Abigail and all, probably not the thread to keep going on like this.

Martyn, I love authors. They're my personal super stars. I also love authors here at Goodreads. However, I think authors who participate fully at the site and who don't overly promote their books actually acquire more new readers here. That's been my experience and the experiences of author friends I have here.

Abigail, I've supported how you've handled this situation so far and given all the postings I support what you've now proposed. I think you're handling things as well as they can be, taking into account what's good for the group and all its members. Thanks for all the work Abigail, sarafem, Chandra, and other contributing members!

I am 100% with Abigail on this. This is a community of individuals who share a love of children's literature looking for intelligent discourse on the topic. Constant and persistent self promotion is disruptive to this purpose. I'd like to see people take the time to get to know the community and participate in the many thoughtful discussions available. When the only threads an author posts are self promoting it's disrespectful to the group.

I also really want authors to feel welcome here. I think having a diverse group of authors, scholars parents, etc is what makes this group great. But, as Abigail says, we have to draw the line somewhere to preserve the integrity of the group and make this a stimulating and enjoyable group.

And like Abigail I'm open to comments/feedback!

Hi Everybody...

I'm posting this today because there has been some concern expressed about the growing number of self-promotional posts on the part of our author-members. First, let me just say that children's book authors are valuable members of our community here at the Children's Books group. You're fellow enthusiasts, some of you are parents, and you're interested in being part of the discussion. For all authors who have been respectful of the group structure, and avoided conspicuous self-promotion, please know that you are not being targeted.

That said, it seems to me that we have a growing problem, in which new author-members either post in the wrong thread - completely ignoring the topic under discussion - or start threads in the wrong folder. Some have done this multiple times, even after the correct procedure has been explained. This needs to stop!

With that in mind, perhaps it would be best to categorically state what the policy here is, as it concerns author self-promotion. First, we have a folder devoted to books written by our members, and if you are a new author (or a not-so-new one), you are welcome to start a thread (in that folder) devoted to your work. If you see a conversation in progress in another part of the group, and your book is germane to the topic, then feel free to bring it up.

In all other cases, book-promotion will be treated as spam, and will be deleted accordingly. I've tried very hard to be low-key about this, and have never before blocked ANY goodreads user from this group, but if warnings are given, and the behavior continues, I WILL BLOCK YOU! So please: follow the reasonable restrictions in place, and don't make that necessary! Thank you!

Edited to add: as always, feedback is welcome! If you have a suggestion about how we can improve the group, please speak up - this is the place to do it!

Hi everyone! Thanks for having me! I'm really passionate and excited about childrens literature and I really enjoyed discussing it with others who feel the same. I hope some of you will join us as we read the Newbery selections together!

Hello Everyone!

As some of you may have noticed, we have a new moderator! Please welcome Chandra, who's coming on board to run the upcoming Newbery Book Club! With such a great membership, moderating here is no chore at all, but we're still very happy to have a third partner!

Hi Everyone:

I've noticed recently that this group, which was once very active, has been flagging a little, and it occurred to me that it might be helpful to tweak the organization a little. I have added a "Themes, Categories & Topics" folder, as I find that many of our best discussion are thematic, rather than age-specific... Also, I'm reviving this thread, and "sticking" it here at the top. Please post with any suggestions or requests you have - any ideas to improve the group!

Children's Literature is a fairly broad topic, so I think it makes sense to divide the threads into thematic sections. Thanks sarafem, for doing all the work! :)

I like the new organization. It's easier for my overloaded mom brain to handle.

Hello group members...
Just wanted to jump in and let you all know that I made a few changes to the format of our members area. I saw a lot of different conversations going on about similar things so I organized them into folders. I tried to keep it simple and in some ways I like it, though other ways not so much.

Please take a look and let Abigail & I know what you think. We can change things back if it's universally disapproved or we can tweak things to get it just right for all of us. Also if you see anything miscategorized or can think of better labels, let us know.

Thanks!