Of the three Austen novels I've read (P&P, S&S and this), this is my second favourite.

I found Emma annoying at times, very spoiled and naive as well. However, she still comes across as somewhat likeable because she means so well. She tries to help Harriet to achieve a higher status because she likes her and believes her worthy of it. She really tries to do good - but still, because of her sheltered life, her knowledge of the world and how society works is rather limited and she ends up doing more harm than good.
Her idea of what is good, is in some ways so egoistic, almost solipsistic, in her lack of ability to really consider other people's feelings and her lack of true empathy and understanding of what it's like to be someone else.
But despite all these flaws, she still comes across as a sweet girl. And I'm so impressed with Austen's writing skills!
But this is a book where everybody end up on their proper place and maybe the only thing really annoying me is how it seems that the only way to be happy is to marry a in status compatible person.

One of the things I find interesting about this novel is the way in which in every other Jane Austen novel I have read, there is always a pivotal moment in which the young heroine is taken away from her home, out of her domestic sphere and away from the protections and familiarity of her family and home to be thrust into society usually under rather lax and incompetent guidance, and it is this journey from the home that creates a crucial moment within the story to help set things in motion.

But in the case of Emma, I am nearly finished with the book now, and she never has that moment of being brought out into the world, everything happens revolved around Heartfield. Interesting enough, outsiders are rather brought in to her.

It's early days, but I have taken an immediate liking to Emma she's made a good impression being all too perfect. I am looking forward to her character flaws being exposed as the story develops!!

I am almost done now, just started the 3rd Volume of the story.

hold up, hold up, are people still reading how far in are you guys? is there room for a late comer ... I have the book in front of me just lacking the motivation to get started.

I agree with the general opinion that Emma is quite spoiled. She is used to being at the top of the small social circle in Highbury. I think that's why this has been my least favorite Autin novel. I am liking it better this time, though.

It seems to me that Emma is being a bit coquettish. She is essentially flirting with Frank Churchill, and deliberately trying to earn his attention in her favor, and yet she has no intention of marrying him. She is perfectly aware that everyone within her circle consider them nearly engaged already, and she takes no precautions to discourage Frank and stile the rumors, but appears to be deliberately leading him on.

Vicky wrote: ...Mr. Woodhouse...can leave everything to Emma.

According to Strangegirl's website (message 31), yes Mr Woodhouse can leave all to Emma if he makes a will. Otherwise, Isabella and Emma share equally.

Oh that is quite interesting, thanks for the info.

The term used is 'entailment', which enables the landholdings to be kept intact rather than broken up among numerous inheritors. The inheritance goes through the eldest son and then his eldest son, and so on. Pemberley, below, diagrams this line of inheritance through generations with numbers to indicate who stands to inherit first, second, and so forth. At Strangegirl, someone asked who stands to inherit from Mr Woodhouse and was told Emma and her older sister would share it equally if he died without making a will. Apparently, the progression first went through all the males before any females became eligible to inherit.

http://www.pemberley.com/janeinfo/pptopi...

http://www.strangegirl.com/emma/emfaq.ph...

http://www.jasna.org/persuasions/on-line...

Vicky wrote: Harriet was not an orphan. Jane calls her the "natural child of someone". This was a eupanism for illegitate child......

Even if she was an illegitimate child she is still an orphan. She was abandoned by her blood relations. She is not being raised by her parents or relatives and thus however she was conceived she is an orphan for she does not know who her parents are.

Her sister has sons, so under the law of that time the inherentice should legally go to her sister's eldest child.

Harriet was not an orphan. Jane calls her the "natural child of someone". This was a eupanism for illegitate child. Emma imagines that Harriet's father was a gentle man, a member of the upper class, and thus worthy of Mr. Elton and too good for Mr. Martin. Of course she is only guessing.

As for the inheritance, women could inherit when there was no male heir. To prevent this the Bennets' estate in P&P was tied up in a complicated legal way. I forget what they called it. Mr. Woodhouse doesn't have this problem, so he can leave everything to Emma.

One of the things that confuses me within the story is how is it that Emma stands to inherit? With the laws of primogeniture, the inheritance should be passed to the nearest male relative. Pride and Prejudice was focused around this problem, the mother was worried when her husband died everything would go to a distant cousin and the girls would have nothing which is why she was so eager to have them married.

But within Emma, more then one reference is made to the possibility that when her father dies she will be the heiress of his fortune.

We are not going to dot the i's and cross the t's with the story, nor reduce the characters to logical consistency in thought and action. Austen has lasted because her works inspire discussion. So, I'll put forth my few comments. Harriet is unplaced in society. Emma attempts to define her through an artistic likeness and a respectable marriage. Both come up short. She errs in drawing Harriet and in connecting her maritally. Emma is lonesome after Miss Taylor married. The story's conservative gist is that characters become fulfilled when they marry a worthy partner of similar social standing. When aged, others continue to value them. Thereby, the social cohesion is maintained. With Austen, it is possible to combine propriety and love to achieve happiness.

There is also the interesting case of Harriet, she is an orphan with no family to speak of, and living in charity having no income of her own, and yet Emma sees her as being worthy of high society, while others might see this an err in Emma's judgement, in spite of how critical Emma is of other classes, she certainly does not judge Harriet based on breeding or wealth, but sees some worthy character within her. For Emma education seems to be a rather important quality in differing between the classes.

In a strange way considering the examples of snobbishness that Emma does display towards others, she is actually more open minded toward Harriet than the rest of her society is. Though they may like her and welcome her into their home, they do not truly regard her as being "one of them" as Emma does. For them she is really just a pet project of Emma's and so for Emma's sake they welcome her. But Emma naively believes that Harriet could be accepted as on equal footing with her within society.

Yes, the bloodline is exceedingly important. PERSUASION opens with the paterfamilias enamored with the family name printed in the genealogy. Meanwhile, to maintain aristocratic appearances despite the extravagance, he downsizes in Bath, renting the landed estate to a prosperous admiral of apparently good breeding.

In EMMA, social acceptance is begrudged newly successful businessmen, lawyers, and their spouses who have benefited from the industrial economy. Emma slights others outside her small, privileged, conservative circle, imagining falsehoods about Jane Fairfax and Mr Dixon and about an unread, ill-bred Robert Martin. Circumstances also render well-bred, widowed Mrs. Bates a pariha to Emma.

Asmah wrote: . One might ask what constitutes the social classes.....

That is an interesting question, and while wealth is important, it seems there is more behind the class status than just wealth, it seems to be as well connected to blood line.

As I remember from reading Sense and Sensibility, it seemed there were many characters within that book with whom lacked a great amount of wealth but were still traveling in high society circles and because of their birth and "character" they were still able to make good marriage matches.

As well within Emma, it is mentioned that Mr. Martin is by no means poor, I think he might even be considered rich, but because he is only a farmer he is looked down upon, in spite of his finical success, there is something more in which he is viewed to lack.

Silver wrote: "The other thing that really sticks out at me within this book is the way in which it deals with class and class issues. From my reading of other books from this time period, and other Austen books ..."

I am of the opinion that you have a point about the class issues in this story. The unequal social connection between Harriet and Mr Knightley triggers, I think, Emma's awareness of the bond between herself and Knightley. She possibly goes so far as to insinuate her disgust about the consequences his choice of Harriet would entail for him in Highbury. With regard to Mr Elton's view of Harriet, she is beneath his consideration. One might ask what constitutes the social classes, and how does a person move up or down the social ladder in this historical time & place? Is it inherited wealth, being recognized by the king/queen, landholding, making a lot money in industry or in the law, or making a 'good' marriage?

The other thing that really sticks out at me within this book is the way in which it deals with class and class issues. From my reading of other books from this time period, and other Austen books they usually focus upon the gentry and do not really speak of class with the exception of a passing reference to a servant.

It is quite interesting to see how so much of the focus of this story is around class issues and dealing with different classes and addressing the prejudices of class. While the Martin's are not exactly impoverished they are not gentry, in addition I find Emma's charity work among the poor to be interesting.

Silver wrote: "I do think that Emma's determination not to marry is really quite admirable and rather independent and forward thinking considering she lives at a time where it was looked down upon to be a spinste..."

The question is raised that Emma does not consider marrying at first although two men are initially interested in her.
She learns of Mr Elton's amorous feelings during the nocturnal coach ride, but she is horrified at his misconstruing her intentions. Frank Churchill she likes almost before she meets him but practical acquaintance with him makes her less romantically fond of him. Yet, she like many Austen heroines marries happily and romantically in the end. Why does she change her mind?

I do think that Emma's determination not to marry is really quite admirable and rather independent and forward thinking considering she lives at a time where it was looked down upon to be a spinster, and she is a woman that does have plenty of advantages and opportunities to marry, so her refusing to do so, is quite the rebellious act. While it maybe be truth that she does overestimate her own superiority in her conviction not to marry someone unless they were themselves superior to everyone else she knew, this idea of not settling, and marrying for more than reputation, and wealth was quite a revolutionary one.

Silver wrote: "For anyone who has read The Woman in White, Mr. Woodhouse reminds me of Mr. Fairlie. There is something rather comical in his constant nervous condition and it is because of the weakness of his con..."

A good point you make about mothers in Austen's novels. A really awful mother is the eponymous LADY SUSAN. In SENSE AND SENSIBILITY, the mothers are different. Mrs Jenning is well-meaning with decent daughters; Mrs Dashwood tends to encourage Marianne's romantic display; Mrs Ferrars is portrayed as unbending and unsympathetic. Might Marianne have gone the way of Colonel Brandon's motherless charge Eliza Williams whom Willoughby played with and deserted? Without Elinor's restraining hand of propriety, another one of Colonel Brandon's romantic attachments might have fallen through the social cracks.
In EMMA there are a lot of motherless characters who have been brought up by a relative. Jane Fairfax overcomes maternal deficiency through studied accomplishments and through independence, but her secret involvement with Frank Churchill causes her repentance and almost makes her lose happiness. Mrs Weston (Miss Taylor), the maternal fill-in for Emma, is led by Emma rather than steering her. Thus, Mr Knightley becomes the surrogate guardian. Frank Churchill was raised by his uncle. Harriet's familial connections are known by the school matron, Mrs Goddard. Emma's misguided mothering of Harriet almost destroys the girl's chances for happiness. Only the mother of Robert Martin and the widowed Mrs Bates seem to know the maternal art. Thank you, Silver, for your pointing out this theme in the novel.

For anyone who has read The Woman in White, Mr. Woodhouse reminds me of Mr. Fairlie. There is something rather comical in his constant nervous condition and it is because of the weakness of his constitution that Emma is allowed to have such a free run of things and why she has an over confidences in her opinions and judgement, because of his indulgence, and the way in which he is so out of touch because he keeps himself so much in seclusion from the world.

It is a common theme in Austen's works, young women that lack proper guidance, particularly from a comportment mother or other female source, which is what often leads them astray.

Though it is curious, in this case unlike her other books instead of just having a mother who is useless, the mother figure has been removed altogether, and in a curious twist, Emma plays the sort of maternal roll to the orphaned Harriet, though she is quite unfit to be offering anyone else any sort of life guidance.

Silver wrote: "I really like Mr. Knightley, he is thus far one of the few who can see Emma's faults, and is not willing to just let her have her way, or pat her on the head, but points out to her, where she is wr..."

Yes, Silver, Mr Knightley is from a certain viewpoint consistently socially charming and faultless . His one possible vulnerability is his long, familial attachment to Emma. But, if she were to continue appraising others simply by their circumstances of birth rather than personal merits, he would probably not marry her. As the richest and most prominent character as well as a character meritorious in deed, he needs a partner equal in circumstance and merit, who gives and receives respect.

I really like Mr. Knightley, he is thus far one of the few who can see Emma's faults, and is not willing to just let her have her way, or pat her on the head, but points out to her, where she is wrong. I think he does do this with the genuine hope of helping to improve her.

But Emma remains oblivious and as soon as she is out of his pressence she is able to talk herself into beliving that she is right again.

I rather enjoy the dialouge between the two of them.

He is one of my favortie characters within the book.

So far, most people have commented upon Emma's and Harriet's characters. Other interesting characters are Mr Woodhouse, Mr Frank Churchill, Mr Knightley, Jane Fairfax, Mr Elton, Miss Bates, and Mr and Mrs Weston. What is Emma's attitude to these characters?

Yes, that is one of the amusing ironies of the story. The way in which while so much is made of her cleverness and wit, she cannot see her obvious flaws in her attempts "help" people.

I rather enjoy her debates with Mr. Kinsgley, it is quite funny to see how wrong she is even as she is apploding herself over what she has done.

I cannot completely blame Emma for what she did concerning Harriet becasue I for one, no matter how good of friends I was with somebody, wouldn't let them make all of my desisions in my life for me. Harriet through this at the very least might learn to think more for herself and not be so easily influenced.

Silver wrote: "I have rather mixed feelings about Emma within the incident of Harriet and Mr. Martin. ..."

My feelings aren't mixed :) Emma is wrong in what she does with poor Harriet. But I think part of the point of the story is that although Emma undoubtedly means well, she gets things badly wrong most of the time, and doesn't really listen to other people because she is so sure she is right -- until the incident at the picnic. She has led a sheltered life, and has obviously been thoroughly spoilt :)

I think one of the cleverest aspects of the novel is the way it's told from Emma's point of view, yet Austen gives the reader enough clues that you can see how wrong Emma is, and cringe!

I have rather mixed feelings about Emma within the incident of Harriet and Mr. Martin.

On the one hand I could not help but to feel sorry for Harriet, and even cringed when she turned to Emma for advice, because I feel she could have been happy with Mr. Martin, and were it not for Emma's influence and interference I think she would have agreed to the marriage without hesitation.

A part of me disliked the way in which she manipulated the situation, and yet, there was a certain diplomacy in her approach to the subject, and Harriet is responsible for knowing her own mind. It is not altogether Emma's fault if Harriet is willing to be so malleable and let someone else make her decisions in life for her. She need to be able to assert her own will for what she wants.

I do think that Mr. Kingsly is right though, that Emma is delusional regarding Harriet, and personally I think that Mr. Elton is more interesting in Emma than he is Harriet.

One of the things that does irritate me in the book, and which I think are precisely Austen's point and purpose, is the classicism which is displayed. I do not like the way Emma judges people, and it was quite harsh and cruel when she told Harriet they could never see each other again if she married Mr. Martin. Though Emma is a product of her society and breeding.

Yes, there is something rather endearing about Emma, even if you do not always agree with her. The books is truly quite humurous, and very witty and clever which is one of its enjoyable asepcts. I find it really quite easy to read becasue of how well written it is and how easily I become engaged within the story.

Silver wrote: "I am already really enjoying this book even though I just recently started it. I find it is quite engaging as well as being very entertaining."

I agree, Silver. This is the first Jane Austen I read and I still like it the best. I was taken by surprise at how funny and witty it is -- I was expecting it to be a bit staid and mannered. It is true that despite her meddling you can't help but like Emma. The funniest part is how she so reliably jumps to the wrong conclusions about people despite thinking she is very clever and perceptive.

SPOILER ALERT. This book is kind of fun. Emma is disgustingly snobbish, but depicts a realistic quality for a person of her social standing in eighteenth-century England. Then, she gets a kind of comeuppance when life and Mr Knightley teach her sensitivity and humility. With Mr Knightley, she is sorrowful about displeasing him. By the way, no one else in Highbury has a suitable social level to allow them to marry her.

this is kind of boring though I like her character.my favorites were persuasion and pride and prejudice

I am already really enjoying this book even though I just recently started it. I find it is quite engaging as well as being very entertaining. The character of Emma is an interesting one, because though on the one hand she is a bit of a snob, and something of a spoiled brat, she is amusing, and in her own way is good natured, and does mean well even if perhaps she would do best to butt out, it is quite comical how she does meddle in the affairs of others. In a way one cannot help but to feel a little sorry for poor Harriet now that Emma decided to make a "pet" out of her as it her, and take guardianship over her. Yet there is something about Emma that is hard to dislike even if one does disagree with her approach.

It also seems to me,from what I have read so far, that the prose and writing within this book is really Austen's strongest work.

Yeah, I think she's great but she's always struck me as such a nice, smiley girl. Well, we'll see :)

I think Sandy Welch is involved, so that's always promising. She did North & South and Jane Eyre, two of my favourite period dramas.

I love Romola Garai, haven't read the book though so couldn't say how well she portrays Emma or not.

This is my 2nd favourite, after Persuasion. Actually, there's a BBC adaptation tonight, filmed in Chilham, a v. pretty village near where I live. Not sure how well Romola Garai will pull off Emmma though.

This is actually my favorite Austen. I haven't read it in a long while, but when I do, I always picture Emma as a bit of a brat, and I think that most people do not. I wonder how different that makes my experience with the story.

I just got my copy for this book a couple days ago, it was harder than I would have thought to find it.

Our final book for Austen Autumn will be Emma. Happy Reading!