Given the discussion here, it's striking to me that while Dakar in some ways resembles Arithon--particularly in the fact of destinies/responsibilities they don't want to embrace--it's Lysaer that Dakar gravitates toward while developing a strong antipathy toward Arithon. Opposites attract?

I actually didn't get the appellation "Mad." He didn't seem off. "Unwitting Prophet" I could see, or "Surly Prophet," but mad? Really?

Libby - that's fun!

On the Paravia chat, there are some readers who've cross referenced stuff...you may find (later) that the glossary entries evolve with each book. I've adjusted them, each book, to reflect the ending of the past volume, so some of the references will be there for readers who don't go your route and take notes.

It would be interesting if you want to share what you've detailed for reference later...might fire some discussion points. (I cannot see the forest for the trees, at this stage, very likely!)

Janny wrote: There is a lot of stuff seeded in Mistwraith like Dakar's dates....I don't expect it to be seen off the bat, except to say look very deeply at your early takes of what is happening and make SURE you aren't footing them on an assumed 'belief.

This is exactly why I've been keeping my own little outline. I know I'll be going back through this one later so I'm writing down some reference points now to save myself time.

Lochaber wrote: "Going from the dates, Dakar had no childhood. At all. Major prophecies while still a toddler, apprenticed at age 9. How did his parents react? Likely, given the prevailing prejudices on Athera,..."

You asked directly - about whether there would be a short story about Dakar's early years. Likely, perhaps yes...I say likely, because the pertinent years of Dakar's evolvement are directly exposed by the series itself. The huge parts of his life Begin here, and play forward. You will see that...if the facts of his earliest years become stated in passing, you won't see the enactment in full. Though I suggest, if there IS a short story done that is set in these years, the story may NOT revolve solely around Dakar. The years surrounding his birth, and the impacts that broke as his talents emerged - well, let's say there is a much wider picture, and angles aplenty invoked on that stage.

The one story I do have in progress (it's now a 75 page novella, with the ending scenes left to write) is Verrain's story.

There are sketched notes and scenes for several others, including the very illuminating life of a very early s'Ahelas forebear...that occurred way back, long before the Mistwraith's entry at Southgate...that character's life path would open some eyes and unveil some pretty significant connections to events that are now opening up to take center stage in the action of Vol. 9.


There is a lot of stuff seeded in Mistwraith like Dakar's dates....I don't expect it to be seen off the bat, except to say look very deeply at your early takes of what is happening and make SURE you aren't footing them on an assumed 'belief.'

Yeah, I think Dakar has been so traumatized due to being unique. Some friends with similar problems would have been nice. It's pretty tough to buddy up to a ghost or a man that is centuries older than god...

Chris wrote: "..at least they didn't send him to Hogwarts..."

Are you kidding? That would have been a huge favour! That was the best part of Harry's life.

And now, in order to avoid a threadjack, back to our regular programming...

Did Dakar's ability stunt him or the reaction of those around him plus his alcoholism? A combination of both?

Dakar doesn't remember his prophecies & they can come on him at any time. Did that mean he was basically sequestered for his 'childhood' & the rest of his life? Does he remember some of them or have a feel for some of them, like a nightmare haunting him? I agree with Libby that he's using it to hide behind. Oblivion is his answer to his problems.

When did he start hitting the booze? An alcoholic stops emotionally maturing when they start using alcohol as their answer to their problems. He's spent centuries as an adolescent? That's a LOT of booze!

I didn't notice how young he was when he made the prophecies. (I'm only on page 206.) Is he autistic?

..at least they didn't send him to Hogwarts...

You know, I did notice how young Dakar was when he had made the first two prophecies, but I guess it didn't really hit me as to how that might stunt his growth. Maybe because Janny also showed young Jieret being affected by his seer ability...but, of course, he was still surrounded by family and clan. That is quite a bit different from being sent away with old strangers.

Going from the dates, Dakar had no childhood. At all. Major prophecies while still a toddler, apprenticed at age 9. How did his parents react? Likely, given the prevailing prejudices on Athera, not well. So he is hanging out with ancient mages by the age of 9, with no parents, no siblings, no friends.

No wonder the poor b*****d is adolescent-like. He never had the the chance to be a kid.

And this speculation is not taken from readings of the subsequent books, or seeing Dakar's development as a character therein. In fact, I remember somebody posting somewhere a request for the story of Dakar's childhood as a short story, because it has not yet been told...

Any plans that way, JW?

Jim wrote: "They were elated in their new found freedom, scared of their new responsibilities & seemed to live through continual crises at times

Jim, my impression of Dakar is evolving as well. I think Janny's comment contributes to this too. I believe he is a person struggling with a heavy burden he didn't ask for. The other Mages seem reconciled to the fact that seeking an ultimate goal can be an ugly business. Many hard and disagreeable actions are often necessary and seemingly justified when serving the "greater good." I think Dakar's alcoholism shows a man seeking refuge from the difficult life and times that face him.

The question becomes, then, why this character's development (maturity) has been so severely arrested.

Anyone care to speculate?

No one's taken up the gauntlet thrown down with the dates, or noticed what's in plain sight - the numbers don't lie - he forecast a High King's death at age two, and at four years of age, delivered the Great West Gate Prophecy which is listed in the opening chapters...and these facts, carefully, are not spoilers for this, or any subsequent volume.

Jim wrote: "I thought more about Dakar & decided that if he is an adolescent mage, rather than a centuries old apprentice, he makes more sense to me. He acts like a teenager a lot of times. His mood swings e..."

Jim, thanks for that. I'm almost 1/4 of the way through the book right now and Dakar has not made much of an impression on me.

I thought more about Dakar & decided that if he is an adolescent mage, rather than a centuries old apprentice, he makes more sense to me. He acts like a teenager a lot of times. His mood swings especially remind me of mine when they were first getting out of high school & facing the world. They were elated in their new found freedom, scared of their new responsibilities & seemed to live through continual crises at times. If there wasn't a crisis, then all was perfect with the world.

Anyone else get that from him?

Chris wrote: "Tracy, I saw that too, but took it to mean he was apprenticed after the Mistwraith did the conquering, after it came in thru Southgate...."

Chris, that was the meaning I intended for that entry - Traci saw a loophole of interpretation I'd have closed, if I'd realized.

Here are a few dates from the back history file:

Dakar was born in Third Age 5057 (in the glossary)
In 5059, he forecast the High King of Havish's death, and the threat to the heir. (not in the glossary)
In 5061, he made the Great Prophecy of West Gate (in the glossary)
His date of apprenticeship to Asandir was in 5066.

The Mistwraith broached South Gate in Third Age 4993.
The date of the uprising that dethroned Crown Law was in 5018.

The date of the Mistwraith's trumph (full coverage of Athera) was Third Age 5095.

Add it up. There is quite a lot going on that doesn't leap to the eye.

The events stated in this, the stage setter, Vol I were encapsulated, NOT simplified.

I have laid out the hints for the copyeditor's flag (that was no mistake) What do you suppose?

Tracy, I saw that too, but took it to mean he was apprenticed after the Mistwraith did the conquering, after it came in thru Southgate....

I get the Mad Prophet thing. He's suddenly attacked by his visions & can't remember them afterward.

I don't get how he can be so knowledgeable in some areas yet clueless in others. So powerful & adept that he is a big part of one project, yet so fumbling & clueless in others.

Janny wrote: "Tracy wrote: "Dakar rather intrigues me...and, at times, infuriates me. How stubborn does a person have to be to be around sorcerers for centuries, yet so determinedly avoid paying real attention ..."

Well, the one thing I noticed that seems to be mistaken is "apprentice to Fellowship Sorcerer, Asandir, during the Third Age following the Conquest of the Mistwraith." Which, IMO, implies that Dakar is not currently(in this book, and the series, assuming there is more to "Conquest" than just bottling it up in a prison) Asandir's apprentice....

Again leaving me with - Why is Dakar with the Fellowship?

And why is he the "Mad Prophet"?

Lochaber wrote: "I have to order the new copy of this book...

What can you say about Dakar, if you have read the whole series, without spoiling the read? You have to keep reading the series to see why. Janny's ri..."

Yup, I've got a fist stuffed in my trap, too. Don't spoil...never spoil....snort! It's rude to huddle over a secret, but, quite impossible not to fidget like a kid, knowing what is coming up.

I have to order the new copy of this book...

What can you say about Dakar, if you have read the whole series, without spoiling the read? You have to keep reading the series to see why. Janny's right. If you are completely annoyed with Dakar in CotMW, you are bang on, because he is annoying, short-sighted, wrong-headed, irresponsible, careless in the extreme, yet somewhat sympathetic. This continues in the next book, Ships of Merior but...

Tracy wrote: "Dakar rather intrigues me...and, at times, infuriates me. How stubborn does a person have to be to be around sorcerers for centuries, yet so determinedly avoid paying real attention to them. Why ..."

Tracy, the series resoundingly answers all of those questions, but admittedly, not in this volume, so those points you've raised, at this stage, are quite open to reader speculation. Your list holds most of the pertinent bits that I'd hoped would be niggling like sand under the skin, at this stage.

There is a major clue in the glossary that will raise the bar on the mystery, but it's not blatantly stated, only inferred by the facts given (which would have to be closely examined). The copy-editor flagged it (extraordinary, such vigilant eyes) as a "mistake" - but it wasn't. Tongue in cheek - 'Them's the facts, ma'am.'

Can anyone find it?

Dakar rather intrigues me...and, at times, infuriates me. How stubborn does a person have to be to be around sorcerers for centuries, yet so determinedly avoid paying real attention to them. Why is Dakar with the. the Sorcerers? That, I think, is one of the big mysteries for me. For most of the book he seems to go out of his way to "get" Asandir through his behavior. Mostly, I wish I knew more about the circumstances surrounding Dakar's apprenticeship - his behavior suggests that he is somehow resentful of his life, of being who and what he is.

Janny wrote: "which scenes were you referring to?"

Just about everyone he was in. I guess my favorite was when no one would tell him what he had prophesied and he kept hounding everyone to tell him and no one paid him any mind.

Jon wrote: "I felt sorry for Dakar. He had some of the most interesting scenes though. "

Jon, which scenes were you referring to? (might warn of spoilers, since some people are still reading.)

Oh, this is going to be fun! Be careful of suppositions, with Dakar...! If you are impatient with him right now, bang on.

I enjoy his buffoonery and sarcasm, though I do wonder about his magic ability. Like Jim, I'm concerned that he's been at it for so long yet has little skill....perhaps there is more to it than we've seen so far...all in all, I enjoy his scenes...

I enjoy him as a foil character because he lightens teh mood and provides interesting contrast. While he is not my favorite, I think the book would be missing an essential element without him.

It's also fun to see such a non-traditional character with a prophetic gift. Dakar's ability seems to be something he'd prefer to be without.

I felt sorry for Dakar. He had some of the most interesting scenes though.

I don't like him much so far. He's a bit too back & forth for me. He's been an apprentice for centuries, yet can't feel what another, trained for a score of years or less, can. He's helplessly drunk whenever possible, a buffoon, yet made the prophecy that the world hinges their every hope on. He's so continually an ass that it seems over done.

He serves as a foil, but a little too conveniently & not as realistically as the other characters. I don't hate him, but he doesn't seem to be up to the same specs as the rest.

The Mad Prophet - what do you think?